Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jun 21, 2018 15:24:16 GMT
Yeah, my biggest problem with Mass Effect is the Reapers. They made them too powerful and no real room for weaknesses when they were created. The rumored ending that Drew said was just an idea to me was far worse then what we got with Mass Effect 3 even if they decided to flush it out more the premise is something I would have hated. I think that is why the focus in Mass Effect 2 was only indirectly the Reapers because they couldn't figure out what to do with them. My problem with Mass Effect 2 is that it doesn't feel necessary. If you play Mass Effect 1 and then Mass Effect 3 I never felt like I missed anything (of course that is subjective especially since I know Mass Effect 2's story). I don't mean by choice either, but storywise. The only times I remember the content Mass Effect 2 being mentioned is at the start with the destruction of the relay and then finding the pieces in the Cerberus base. [edit] I forgot that your Yeoman also said that you saved their colony was also mentioned. If I remember correctly, if you opted out of doing Arrival, the relay isn't even mentioned. I can't skip it now because Shepard being grounded on Earth makes no sense without it, and Anderson's prologue dialogue is really obnoxious. He criticizes Shepard's actions in ME2 for some reason, even if you accept reinstatement as a Spectre in ME2. If you didn't do Arrival it is mentioned that an Alliance team did it instead of Shepard, but no matter what the relay is destroyed in Mass Effect 3.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 21, 2018 15:24:59 GMT
If I remember correctly, if you opted out of doing Arrival, the relay isn't even mentioned. I can't skip it now because Shepard being grounded on Earth makes no sense without it, and Anderson's prologue dialogue is really obnoxious. He criticizes Shepard's actions in ME2 for some reason, even if you accept reinstatement as a Spectre in ME2. If you didn't do Arrival it is mentioned that an Alliance team did it instead of Shepard, but no matter what the relay is destroyed in Mass Effect 3. I know the relay is always destroyed, but all the dialogue about it between Shepard and other NPC's is basically nixed. I wish the game was a bit more reactive to the alternate states of this mission. Basically, Shepard takes the fall for no good reason if Hackett sends some nameless randos, but if they were nameless randos, there's no point in using Shepard as some kind of scapegoat.
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Post by cypherj on Jun 21, 2018 22:33:21 GMT
If you didn't do Arrival it is mentioned that an Alliance team did it instead of Shepard, but no matter what the relay is destroyed in Mass Effect 3. I know the relay is always destroyed, but all the dialogue about it between Shepard and other NPC's is basically nixed. I wish the game was a bit more reactive to the alternate states of this mission. Basically, Shepard takes the fall for no good reason if Hackett sends some nameless randos, but if they were nameless randos, there's no point in using Shepard as some kind of scapegoat. I always thought Shepard was under house arrest for working with Cerberus. The way Anderson and Ashley went on about it, apparently it was a huge deal for the alliance.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 22, 2018 5:04:36 GMT
I know the relay is always destroyed, but all the dialogue about it between Shepard and other NPC's is basically nixed. I wish the game was a bit more reactive to the alternate states of this mission. Basically, Shepard takes the fall for no good reason if Hackett sends some nameless randos, but if they were nameless randos, there's no point in using Shepard as some kind of scapegoat. I always thought Shepard was under house arrest for working with Cerberus. The way Anderson and Ashley went on about it, apparently it was a huge deal for the alliance. Too bad Shepard can’t point out Anderson’s little meet and greet with Cerberus personnel on the Citadel. If you go through the Shadow Broker archives, you see Anderson speaking with a Cerberus agent on the Presidium. But just the same, the fact that the Council willingly reinstates Shepard as a Spectre kinda makes it all seem silly. Sure, if I told the Council to shove their status up their asses then that’d be one thing, but I always accept it.
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Post by guanxi on Jun 22, 2018 17:22:20 GMT
I would argue that exploration is inexplicably grounded in culture, ideas & themes and therefore there is no meaningful exploration in any true sense in Andromeda compared to the earlier games beyond the superficial act of traversal between hub worlds between combat. Environmental storytelling was a feature of the earlier games and it is non existent in MEA: Every corner of every environment should be filled with minor detail to convey insight into either a character, faction, conflict or plot element. There was nothing being explored beyond the surface in andromeda, every environment was just an interchangeable backdrop for combat - you could have switched the setting to Arizona and it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference.
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Shiny, Let's be bad guys
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Post by lynx7386 on Jun 22, 2018 17:39:39 GMT
Exploration is the theme that draws me to these sorts of games, even the first mass effect was heavily involved in exploration (with the original mako and a lot of planet surface to check out).
I agree with others, though - even in andromeda, everything is already settled, whether by angara, kett, exiles, or the initiative, so there's really no actual exploration or first contact going on (even the angara first contact is kinda weak).
I'd like to see a game, mass effect or otherwise, where we truly get to explore unknown worlds and meet species, both primitive and advanced, for the first time.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 22, 2018 18:05:53 GMT
Well they couldn't make it worse.
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Post by guanxi on Jun 22, 2018 19:07:26 GMT
First contact in MEA was a trope not a theme because it wasn't explored in a literary sense - did not impart any meaningful insight into the subject matter, the characters or the species whatsoever.
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Post by sil on Jun 22, 2018 20:10:03 GMT
First contact in MEA was a trope not a theme because it wasn't explored in a literary sense - did not impart any meaningful insight into the subject matter, the characters or the species whatsoever. Technically, we never experienced first contact in ME:A at all. Every race had already been met by other members of the Initiative. Perhaps next time.
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Post by guanxi on Jun 22, 2018 20:41:24 GMT
First contact in MEA was a trope not a theme because it wasn't explored in a literary sense - did not impart any meaningful insight into the subject matter, the characters or the species whatsoever. Technically, we never experienced first contact in ME:A at all. Every race had already been met by other members of the Initiative. Perhaps next time. Such a massive missed opportunity emblematic of the wider pervasive issues with the narrative, characters, and world building. Here's hoping there is a next time.
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Post by x19dude95 on Aug 24, 2018 20:37:47 GMT
I want to explore the city’s and the space stations more than anything
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 20:46:35 GMT
I want to explore the city’s and the space stations more than anything Like ME1?
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Post by biggydx on Aug 26, 2018 4:41:58 GMT
For as much as I get that people want to explore planets with quality content, I think it's also important to remember that there are also satellites and other objects in space worth exploring just as much as any one planet. I still remember that side-mission in ME1 where you board a transport vessel with an unstable biotic on it, and you go through the process of reading what happened on the ship. Then once you've finally made it to the cockpit (maybe Captains quarters, I cant recall completely) and find out what really went on, she ambushes you on the way out.
Large planetoids don't always have a predefined tone that they can be associated with. That's why I think there needs to be a balance between ME1 and MEA.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 26, 2018 7:44:56 GMT
For as much as I get that people want to explore planets with quality content, I think it's also important to remember that there are also satellites and other objects in space worth exploring just as much as any one planet. I still that side-mission in ME1 where you board a transport vessel with an unstable biotic on it, and you go through the process of reading what happened on the ship. Then once you've finally made it to the cockpit (maybe Captains quarters, I cant recall completely) and find out what really went on, she ambushes you on the way out. Large planetoids don't always have a predefined tone that they can be associated with. That's why I think there needs to be a balance between ME1 and MEA. True. This is also what I visioned in my head, we could explore some derelict space station ala ME2 side mission, or transport vessels like in ME1. Of course it needs to be said, we got to explore that Kett vessel, which IS amazing but.. its a main mission.
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Post by fortlowe on Aug 29, 2018 18:47:42 GMT
It'd be great if instead of one game to carry the water for the whole franchise the publishers decided to expand Mass Effect into a few games. Mass Effect is a really big narrative, and the reaper problem is actually pretty easy to get around. The relay network, as relatively big as it is, could only possibly connect the tiniest portion of habitable worlds in the galaxy. Which means there's still LOTS of room to explore right here in the Milky Way (sorry Andromeda). Perhaps even a wholly independent network of relays unbeknownst to and created with no influence by the reapers or Leviathans. The galaxy is VAST and this is a very feasible scenario.
New locations notwithstanding, there's plenty of real estate to cover in other ways in the space we already have. Just because we know the end of the Shepard saga doesn't mean there's not plenty of stories to tell in the familiar Shepard era all over the galaxy.
As far as other games or rather smaller more genre focused offerings set in the Mass Effect Universe, what about an arena shooter using the AR tech in the Citadel DLC (think Overwatch)? Or a dialogue noirish adventure game set on Omega(think Detroit: Become Human or The Tale Tell games Borderlands game)? A survival game set on Tuchunka (can't think of an example right now but guiding a settlement party to survive a crash on an uninhabited part of Tuchunka sounds cool!)? A stealth action game on Illium (think Splinter Cell or Assassin's Creed)?
Of course there must also be a flagship offering to tie everything together. But why not use the model 2K does? Need better shooting mechanics? Build a shooter (Red Dead Redemption). Want to test out better facial animations? Make an adventure game (L.A. Noir) Take the best parts of the these "test run" games and put them in the flagship: GTA. All while printing money with each offering.
EA is so busy trying to reduce Bioware's footprint, they aren't seeing the potential of the developers IP's (especially Mass Effect). I don't want to rant too much, because complaining only does so much good, but the resources and time table given to Andromeda coupled with the expectations the publisher had for the product, says to me that EA doesn't appreciate how much potential the Mass Effect IP really has. Given a proper investment of time, resources, and creativity Mass Effect could occupy the kind of cultural space properties like Star Wars or Harry Potter or the Marvel universe currently reside in. But it will require a lot of patience and curation. Hopefully if EA doesn't have the vision to see this, Bioware and it's IP's (including Dragon Age and this new Anthem property; but especially Mass Effect) don't get mothballed into oblivion and instead get acquired by a more patient and forward thinking publisher like (and I'm as surprised as anyone to think it but here we are) Disney. They seem to 'get it' (as demonstrated by the MCU). And I think they want to make games (as demonstrated by their disappointment in Battlefront 2). Or maybe they go back home to Microsoft. Or maybe Bezos buys them for that Amazon gaming service keeps hinting at.
Anyways, with my rant being done, I'd just like more diversified games to play set in the Mass Effect universe and I think there is plenty of different avenues to take to do just that. Smaller more focused products built around a few core game play mechanics to fine tune and distill those mechanics for inclusion into a flagship Mass Effect game. And don't get me wrong I really want another proper Mass Effect game (maybe even one of these 'live service' style games that are so popular), but I'd also like something new in the sames setting is all.
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Post by ergates on Aug 31, 2018 12:24:54 GMT
Am I the only one here who wants to see the whole open world concept abandoned, and a return to a tightly-crafted, linear story-driven experience?
Maybe it's just me, but I find that I didn't particularly enjoy the 'MMO-style feel' of Bioware's last two games, and prefer the older, more story-focused format. I actually quite enjoyed Andromeda, for all it's flaws - in fact I enjoyed it far more than Inquisition; but I have no real desire to replay the game whereas I have replayed the original trilogy dozens of times.
I seem to be in the minority though.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 13:48:57 GMT
Am I the only one here who wants to see the whole open world concept abandoned, and a return to a tightly-crafted, linear story-driven experience? Maybe it's just me, but I find that I didn't particularly enjoy the 'MMO-style feel' of Bioware's last two games, and prefer the older, more story-focused format. I actually quite enjoyed Andromeda, for all it's flaws - in fact I enjoyed it far more than Inquisition; but I have no real desire to replay the game whereas I have replayed the original trilogy dozens of times. I seem to be in the minority though. To me it depends on the game, but I think the way BioWare designs its characters I would prefer a linear story experience.
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Post by ergates on Aug 31, 2018 14:16:39 GMT
I spend a long time trying to analyse the reasons why I love the Bethesda open world games, (Fallout, Skyrim etc.) and constantly want to replay them but do not feel the same way about the two Bioware open world games. What is it that makes the Bethesda games so compelling and fun for me - but leaves me feeling bored and burned out in the Bioware ones?
I wish I knew, but I just can't seem to articulate the problem. All I know is that I feel that there's some essential 'something' lacking in DA:I and MA:A, some element (or perhaps combination of elements) that prevents the titles from drawing me in, and limits my ability to fully immerse myself.
This does not apply to the linear Bioware titles such as DA:O, Mass Effect 1,2,3, KotOR and even DA:2, all of which number among my favourite video games.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 31, 2018 15:16:15 GMT
Am I the only one here who wants to see the whole open world concept abandoned, and a return to a tightly-crafted, linear story-driven experience? Maybe it's just me, but I find that I didn't particularly enjoy the 'MMO-style feel' of Bioware's last two games, and prefer the older, more story-focused format. I actually quite enjoyed Andromeda, for all it's flaws - in fact I enjoyed it far more than Inquisition; but I have no real desire to replay the game whereas I have replayed the original trilogy dozens of times. I seem to be in the minority though. To me it depends on the game, but I think the way BioWare designs its characters I would prefer a linear story experience. Me too, but if you start with open+hubs, dont kill open in next installment, refine it - anyway, as I said in other thread already. Open is still linear, but it has bigger areas to travel and explore. Tough choice. Its also never binary
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 15:19:21 GMT
To me it depends on the game, but I think the way BioWare designs its characters I would prefer a linear story experience. Me too, but if you start with open+hubs, dont kill open in next installment, refine it - anyway, as I said in other thread already. Open is still linear, but it has bigger areas to travel and explore. Tough choice. Its also never binary Out of all the planets we could land on, I think my favorite is H-047c. For there was some exploration, but it never felt like you were having to search every corner to find the things you need.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 31, 2018 15:55:50 GMT
Me too, but if you start with open+hubs, dont kill open in next installment, refine it - anyway, as I said in other thread already. Open is still linear, but it has bigger areas to travel and explore. Tough choice. Its also never binary Out of all the planets we could land on, I think my favorite is H-047c. For there was some exploration, but it never felt like you were having to search every corner to find the things you need. H-047c and Havarl mainly yep.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 3:20:15 GMT
Me too, but if you start with open+hubs, dont kill open in next installment, refine it - anyway, as I said in other thread already. Open is still linear, but it has bigger areas to travel and explore. Tough choice. Its also never binary Out of all the planets we could land on, I think my favorite is H-047c. For there was some exploration, but it never felt like you were having to search every corner to find the things you need. I like those too plus Aya but I didn't mind the exploration of all the planets.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2018 4:00:20 GMT
Out of all the planets we could land on, I think my favorite is H-047c. For there was some exploration, but it never felt like you were having to search every corner to find the things you need. I like those too plus Aya but I didn't mind the exploration of all the planets. I'm kind of realizing I don't mind it, either. There are a few instances of things I don't get, like a straight line to a point of interest could lead to you ending up outside the mission area. Seems weird to me because then you have to find some convoluted path. That's a relatively minor annoyance.
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 12:41:13 GMT
I like those too plus Aya but I didn't mind the exploration of all the planets. I'm kind of realizing I don't mind it, either. There are a few instances of things I don't get, like a straight line to a point of interest could lead to you ending up outside the mission area. Seems weird to me because then you have to find some convoluted path. That's a relatively minor annoyance. Yeah several games have that and that can be annoying.
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Post by alanc9 on Sept 2, 2018 18:07:04 GMT
I would argue that exploration is inexplicably grounded in culture, ideas & themes and therefore there is no meaningful exploration in any true sense in Andromeda compared to the earlier games beyond the superficial act of traversal between hub worlds between combat. Environmental storytelling was a feature of the earlier games and it is non existent in MEA: Every corner of every environment should be filled with minor detail to convey insight into either a character, faction, conflict or plot element. There was nothing being explored beyond the surface in andromeda, every environment was just an interchangeable backdrop for combat - you could have switched the setting to Arizona and it wouldn’t have made a blind bit of difference. I don't see how to map this design principle onto wilderness areas.
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