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Post by phoray on Jun 26, 2018 3:22:39 GMT
I mean, as a female Noble, I just wanted to be Queen. So if I were a Male Noble, I'd probably only be doing it to be King. Keep Zevran as my lover fo sho
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2018 3:24:34 GMT
Anora CLAIMS a lot of things, but has no evidence whatsoever to back them up. Huh? What do you mean by this? Well, exactly as riverdaleswhiteflash said right above my post, Anora claims to have been running the country. "Claims" being the keyword. We have no in-game evidence that she did anything of the kind. She broadly asserts to have been the brains behind Cailan, but what does that mean in practice? She doesn't give specifics about anything in particular (legislation that she had a meaningful impact on, treaties that she helped broker, etc, etc), and you aren't given the opportunity to ask her. The game never gives us any details about what Cailan's rule was actually like, so what, exactly, is Anora taking credit for? If she possesses such great political acumen, why did she not assert authority early on, rather than defer to her father (who has no legitimate authority at all), and allow him to waste resources on a personal vendetta with two Grey Wardens, while darkspawn ravaged the nation? Why did she stand by and do nothing while her father formed an alliance with an individual that (at least if you play Cousland origin), he knows to be untrustworthy? Her failure to stand up to Loghain is beneath what I expect of any grown-ass woman, let alone someone who thinks of themselves as the right person to rule an entire country. She claims to care about Ferelden, but she didn't stand up for it when it mattered most. The most meaningful, assertive thing she does in the game is go to Arl Howe's house, where she immediately gets captured and has to beg for rescue. You could argue that it was to spy on Howe, but she could have had a trusted individual do that for her, and she didn't end up learning anything useful, so it was a waste of effort. You could argue that it was a deliberate move on her part to get herself close to Eamon and the wardens, but if that is the case, it's a foolish gamble that might well have resulted in her death, when she could just as easily have stayed where she was, and sent a covert message directly. She has no good reason whatsoever to suppose that I would help her, and I have no good reason to do it; I already have a viable candidate for the throne, I have no good reason to trust Anora, and every reason to suspect that it is a trap. In fact, Anora being imprisoned is to my benefit; the biggest obstacle to putting my current candidate on the throne has effectively been removed. If it weren't for the fact that the critical story path requires you to rescue her, I would never do it. And yet, despite all this, I'm supposed to believe that Anora is extremely intelligent and qualified. Maybe she is, but the game should have done a better job of showing that to me. If I were to marry Anora (which I never do, because I have Alistair rule alone), it would be to make sure that she can't fuck things up, because I have no in-game evidence of her competence.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 5:53:11 GMT
I mean, as a female Noble, I just wanted to be Queen. So if I were a Male Noble, I'd probably only be doing it to be King. Keep Zevran as my lover fo sho meh Morrigan is a much better lover than zev (I say this with bias, lmao because him trying to kill me at the very end came as a huge shock!)
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 26, 2018 8:07:41 GMT
If she possesses such great political acumen, why did she not assert authority early on, rather than defer to her father (who has no legitimate authority at all), and allow him to waste resources on a personal vendetta with two Grey Wardens, while darkspawn ravaged the nation? Why did she stand by and do nothing while her father formed an alliance with an individual that (at least if you play Cousland origin), he knows to be untrustworthy? Her failure to stand up to Loghain is beneath what I expect of any grown-ass woman, let alone someone who thinks of themselves as the right person to rule an entire country. She claims to care about Ferelden, but she didn't stand up for it when it mattered most. The snipped stuff I'll give you, but I'm not sure how much of this is fair. The praise I vaguely remember Anora getting somewhere praises her performance as a peacetime ruler, and she claims to have run Ferelden between the end of the Rebellion and the Blight. Whether or not you credit that record, none of it even claims she's led a country through a war. Loghain has. She's deferring to him because he's had more experience with the class of challenge Ferelden's ruler has to deal with right then. As for Loghain wasting resources on a vendetta with the Grey Wardens... all he directly does, from what I remember, was put a price on their heads and contract one Crow master. Relative to the resources he has, that doesn't sound all that expensive. Unless you object to trying to kill the Wardens at all, which Anora has no solid reason to yet, this isn't the worst use of money. As for using Howe, that is a questionable choice, but ignoring the fact that Anora could hardly have missed that her father was short on allies at the time, it's not entirely accurate to say that Anora stood by and did nothing about it. Your objections to what she actually did are legitimate, but don't they contradict this particular objection?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 26, 2018 9:26:57 GMT
If she possesses such great political acumen, why did she not assert authority early on, rather than defer to her father (who has no legitimate authority at all), and allow him to waste resources on a personal vendetta with two Grey Wardens, while darkspawn ravaged the nation? Why did she stand by and do nothing while her father formed an alliance with an individual that (at least if you play Cousland origin), he knows to be untrustworthy? Her failure to stand up to Loghain is beneath what I expect of any grown-ass woman, let alone someone who thinks of themselves as the right person to rule an entire country. She claims to care about Ferelden, but she didn't stand up for it when it mattered most. The snipped stuff I'll give you, but I'm not sure how much of this is fair. The praise I vaguely remember Anora getting somewhere praises her performance as a peacetime ruler, and she claims to have run Ferelden between the end of the Rebellion and the Blight. Whether or not you credit that record, none of it even claims she's led a country through a war. Loghain has. She's deferring to him because he's had more experience with the class of challenge Ferelden's ruler has to deal with right then. As for Loghain wasting resources on a vendetta with the Grey Wardens... all he directly does, from what I remember, was put a price on their heads and contract one Crow master. Relative to the resources he has, that doesn't sound all that expensive. Unless you object to trying to kill the Wardens at all, which Anora has no solid reason to yet, this isn't the worst use of money. As for using Howe, that is a questionable choice, but ignoring the fact that Anora could hardly have missed that her father was short on allies at the time, it's not entirely accurate to say that Anora stood by and did nothing about it. Your objections to what she actually did are legitimate, but don't they contradict this particular objection? I'll grant that it might make sense to defer to Loghain when it comes to military decisions (although again, his skill as a military tactician is something we are told, rather than shown, all we see him do is retreat), but he has absolutely no business doing things like, say addressing the Banns and Arls, brokering trade deals with other countries, and deciding whether or not they accept aid from Orlais. Those sort of things require the diplomacy and tact that Anora is supposedly known for, and when she allows Loghain to do them, he fucks up pretty badly. You could say that Teagan deliberately creates animosity between Loghain and the other Ferelden nobility, but it should not have been that easy for him to do that. It's clear that despite being lauded as a warrior and a general, Loghain is abrasive, and not well-liked on a personal level, and Anora should have realised that his actions would look like treason to some, and should have never allowed him to speak in the first place. The notion that slavery is the only way he could find to secure funding for his army is absurd on its face, and again, it should not be up to him to be finding the money anyway, or to decide whether or not they accept aid from Orlais. His job is to use the allies and resources at hand to secure military success, not to decide where they come from. Anora isn't the only one to blame, though, Cailan is immature and he should have been firm on accepting aid from Orlais, and he should already know to stay out of the thick of battle without having to be told. Really, Cailan shouldn't have been at Ostagar at all, he should have been in Denerim, doing the actual diplomatic work that Anora should be doing now he's dead. Honestly, Loghain oversteps his bounds so quickly and so often, that I get the sense there's a long history of Cailan and Anora allowing him to run roughshod over them. Considering how quickly the Hero of Ferelden builds an army from nothing, it's ridiculous that the established authority fails so hard at essentially the same task. And that's why I think BioWare should just stay right away from writing politics. Lol.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2018 16:30:59 GMT
If I did it, it would be purely to make Anora's life as miserable as possible. That is both awful and fabulous all at the same time.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 27, 2018 11:35:59 GMT
A combination of desire for the crown (being King without actually having to make the decisions was actually a bonus) and desire for beautiful blondes. The prince-consort has fewer responsibilities, but also less power and prestige.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Jun 27, 2018 12:08:44 GMT
A combination of desire for the crown (being King without actually having to make the decisions was actually a bonus) and desire for beautiful blondes. The prince-consort has fewer responsibilities, but also less power and prestige. Sounds like a good trade to me.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 27, 2018 14:49:30 GMT
If I did it, it would be purely to make Anora's life as miserable as possible. That is both awful and fabulous all at the same time. I picture it like Married With Children, except I'm Peggy, and I'm also boning so many dudes behind her back.
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Post by sparkythebarbarian on Jun 29, 2018 20:10:55 GMT
Thanks for the answer. Also thank you for the epilogue excerpt. Would've been nice if they would have settled on their positions, instead of fighting over the throne. As for Anora's right to the throne. Like Cousland her father was Teryn. Teryn's are the second most powerful families in Ferelden the first being the royal family. So both Aedan and Anora have a right to the throne. Yes, you would be Prince Consort, not 'King,' but let's face it, as Prince Consort, Commander of the Armies, Warden Commander of Ferelden, and Hero of Ferelden, the title doesn't matter. YOU would be running the country, not Anorra. I wonder how she will deal with that.
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Post by sparkythebarbarian on Jun 29, 2018 20:13:23 GMT
Huh? What do you mean by this? Well, exactly as riverdaleswhiteflash said right above my post, Anora claims to have been running the country. "Claims" being the keyword. We have no in-game evidence that she did anything of the Indeed, there is no in game evidence that Anorra does anything, but having met King Cailen, I am inclined to give her some credit.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 30, 2018 3:23:16 GMT
Well, exactly as riverdaleswhiteflash said right above my post, Anora claims to have been running the country. "Claims" being the keyword. We have no in-game evidence that she did anything of the Indeed, there is no in game evidence that Anorra does anything, but having met King Cailen, I am inclined to give her some credit. Whereas for myself, meeting Cailan is what gives me doubts. If he's so dumb, while everyone around him is so gosh-dang clever, then how is it that he is running around, doing whatever he feels like, and they can't convince him to be sensible?
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Post by sparkythebarbarian on Jun 30, 2018 3:57:13 GMT
Indeed, there is no in game evidence that Anorra does anything, but having met King Cailen, I am inclined to give her some credit. Whereas for myself, meeting Cailan is what gives me doubts. If he's so dumb, while everyone around him is so gosh-dang clever, then how is it that he is running around, doing whatever he feels like, and they can't convince him to be sensible? Perhaps because he's the king and he can? Or to put it another way: He does the king stuff, leading, inspiring, making major policy decisions, or doing what ever he wants because he's king, while she sees to the details. Cailen: Okay, we need a food drive to feed the poor in the alienage. I want enough food to feed fifty for a week. I'm off to a meeting with the wardens. Anorra: Okay, transfer twenty sovereigns from the entertainment fund to the general account, contact the fish mongers, cod is cheap right now, but we don't want it all delivered at once, it will spoil, and we'll get the chantry to help us with distribution, they owe us after the crown donated to their statue fund.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jun 30, 2018 14:17:31 GMT
I never married Anora. I left that to Alistair. He was the closest thing to an actual heir to the throne. My alternative would have been to have Alistair on the throne alone but I thought it made better peace with her as his wife.
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Post by lilyonce on Jun 30, 2018 16:02:25 GMT
My Warden married her so he could be the Prince Consort. It's not as good as being king but he's still damn close to the throne and formally tied to it. Fergus gets the Teyrnir of Highever and my Warden gets the Teyrnir of Gwaen with his boon, so that's a lot of power. Also Anora said something about him being the general of Ferelden's armies. Even better. And together they have the potential to usher in a golden age. The Inquisitor's power and influence really degrade by the end of DA:I, Hawke's Viscounty goes up in smoke before it even gets off the ground, but the Warden can make a nice little empire.
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Post by eliscous on Jul 4, 2018 15:42:19 GMT
I personally never find Anora a good ruler. Wenn we see the state of Ferelden and Denerim under her rule (after the death of Cailan) it is far away from golden ages. There is a civil war because she could not put herself on the throne and let her father take power without doing anything (she was under the tutel of her father, a thirty old grown woman), teyrin family was murder whitout her doing anything about that, noble were tortured, elves were sold in slavery, the royal army did nothing to protect the people against the darkspawns.... It is a poor statement. If the Warden and Alistair had died in Ostagar what would have happened? Ferelden would have been wipped out the map, overwhelmed by darkspawns. Perhaps in times of peace she can handle the kingdom but not in war times or difficult times. She is not able to take the right decison at the right moment. All she is good at is manipulate and do anything to keep the throne. She is good at playing the Game, she could have came from Orlais. But the the rest really no... I always put a hardened Alistair on the throne because he was part of restoring peace and order in Ferelden with the Warden. So for me the only motivation to marry Anora would be to be prince consort and rule at her place.
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Post by Prince on Jul 14, 2018 1:58:33 GMT
In one adventure I did it ,both for the reason that unlike Alistair this protagonist is 100% noble and because he deserted. Because my male cousland likes powerful woman (as noted, his mistress is Morrigan) and because why not, Ferelden needs stability and having two powerful families marry each other is a good way for stability and so thus less Orlesian influence over Ferelden politics. Morrigan isn't a powerful woman,she has no army,no resources,few money,and failed to her mother,on the other hand Leliana has the potential of becoming a powerful woman.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 2:01:21 GMT
Morrigan isn't a powerful woman,she had no army,no resources,and failed to her mother,on the other hand Leliana has the potential of becoming a powerful woman. Also **** the ritual i hate it on principle. yes but she is because she has important connections in the orlaisans court.
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Post by Prince on Jul 14, 2018 2:02:27 GMT
Morrigan isn't a powerful woman,she had no army,no resources,and failed to her mother,on the other hand Leliana has the potential of becoming a powerful woman. Also **** the ritual i hate it on principle. yes but she is because she has important connections in the orlaisans court. You mean she had,because she hasn't it anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 2:03:56 GMT
yes but she is because she has important connections in the orlaisans court. You mean she had,because she hasn't it anymore. Yeah well... My male cousland gives no a single damn about that.
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Post by Prince on Jul 14, 2018 2:16:14 GMT
You mean she had,because she hasn't it anymore. Yeah well... My male cousland gives no a single damn about that. That's sweet but I don't care about your characters(I didn't even asked you to mention it),I was just not in agreement with your analysis of power. She never had any connection at the imperial court to begin with,it was only Celene that recruited her because Briala and her eluvians were a problem,but the nobility of Orlais never cared at all about Morri.
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Post by Iddy on Jul 16, 2018 16:05:02 GMT
That is both awful and fabulous all at the same time. I picture it like Married With Children, except I'm Peggy, and I'm also boning so many dudes behind her back. Nah. Anora seems to at least respect the Warden. Anora x Alistair would be the real Married With Children. Nothing but bitterness and passive aggressiveness.
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Post by warden on Jul 16, 2018 16:30:56 GMT
I married her in a what if canon of my main character because I like cliche fairy tale endings sometimes.
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Post by Catilina on Jul 16, 2018 19:03:59 GMT
I married her in a what if canon of my main character because I like cliche fairy tales endings sometimes. The hero married the princess and live happily ever after...
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Post by warden on Jul 16, 2018 19:10:44 GMT
I married her in a what if canon of my main character because I like cliche fairy tales endings sometimes. The hero married the princess and live happily ever after... Basically.
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