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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 29, 2018 14:52:51 GMT
If they had separate mechanics/gear for pvp and pve then yes, they could add pvp and balance issues probably wouldn't be a thing, but that is more costly to do and I don't know of many devs that will go that far. Even co-op pve games typically balance around the co-op, not the SP if it has that option. A power or weapon may seem weak for the SP, but in Co-op you may have access to a buff you don't have in SP that increases DMG of that power or weapon.
For the most part, the only time you will see a game truly balanced around a SP is when there are no other options but SP.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 15:42:43 GMT
I dön't pretend tö knöw what I am talking aböut when it cömes tö balance and game design. But cöuld yöu nöt have the guns act differently in PVP vs höw they act in PVE? Maybe this is a bad comparisön but if I am nöt mistaken the guns and pöwers in single player öf Mass Effect 3 wörk differently than they dö in the Multiplayer. För instance the Harrier was nerfed in Multiplayer but I dö nöt think they did anything tö höw it wörks in single player. Am I wröng? I really dö nöt knöw. Ye, this is the better kind of games. But it's also more complicated to maintain. Often devs wouldn't give enogh fucks about balance and it goes down the drain. Usually a power that is lulzworthy in coop isn't that fun anymore in PvP - like being ragdolled around. I wouldn't want watered down powers only so PvP can be played reasonably balanced.
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 29, 2018 15:52:45 GMT
No.
I love PvP in Destiny, and I play it on a regular basis. However, it’s a neverending balancing act and saltiness that ends with shit nerfs and broken buffs. I want my powerful abilities and weapons to be consistent for the life of the game. I don’t want that legendary weapon that was beastly against the immense add horde to suddenly get shanked by response to fans that it was busting their asses too easily in competitive.
I just want something that’s designed from the top down to be a proper co-op system. I’m glad Mass Effect never got this shit.
PS. I like how there’s umlauts in even the No option on the poll.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jun 29, 2018 18:08:04 GMT
... PS. I like how there’s umlauts in even the No option on the poll. Completely legit negation in my language.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 29, 2018 18:20:12 GMT
The only PVP I’ll accept is a separate Mario Cart style racing game mode with specialized racing Javelins.
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Post by Kroitz on Jun 29, 2018 18:37:36 GMT
The only PVP I’ll accept is a separate Mario Cart style racing game mode with specialized racing Javelins.
Yes! Fire up those hyper-boosters.
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abedsbrother
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Post by abedsbrother on Jun 29, 2018 18:47:18 GMT
No interest in PvP. If I'm going to play with people, I prefer Borderlands-style co-op.
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Post by tatann on Jun 29, 2018 20:59:19 GMT
PvP will ruin PvE because of "balance" as usual, and waste development resources
How is it wasted, if it serves to entertain the pvp player-base?
Cause it's a PvE game, intended for PvE players, which in most cases are not inclined to play PvP Just like most PvP players won't come to a mainly PvE game for some small PvP content, even though they'd like to "gank some carebears"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 21:44:06 GMT
No. I love PvP in Destiny, and I play it on a regular basis. However, it’s a neverending balancing act and saltiness that ends with shit nerfs and broken buffs. I want my powerful abilities and weapons to be consistent for the life of the game. I don’t want that legendary weapon that was beastly against the immense add horde to suddenly get shanked by response to fans that it was busting their asses too easily in competitive. I just want something that’s designed from the top down to be a proper co-op system. I’m glad Mass Effect never got this shit. PS. I like how there’s umlauts in even the No option on the poll. Möst peöple just get their panties in a bunch över it.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 30, 2018 3:03:46 GMT
PvP will ruin PvE because of "balance" as usual, and waste development resources
How is it wasted, if it serves to entertain the pvp player-base?
At everyone else's expense. And it's not like there's a shortage of PvP to be had in other MP games.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 30, 2018 3:05:26 GMT
I dön't pretend tö knöw what I am talking aböut when it cömes tö balance and game design. But cöuld yöu nöt have the guns act differently in PVP vs höw they act in PVE? Yes, at twice the cost of development, since you'll basically have two separate combat systems. Some of the logic and effects can be shared, but the progression and balance would have to be separate systems.
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Post by Kroitz on Jun 30, 2018 6:49:51 GMT
How is it wasted, if it serves to entertain the pvp player-base?
At everyone else's expense. And it's not like there's a shortage of PvP to be had in other MP games.
Well, group based PvE content like strongholds/raids might never be done by players that are stricly playing solo for their own reasons. The most challenging content in this type of game is cleared by a small percentage of the playerbase. Is that content created at the expense of everyone else? No. It's an option to engage with the game on another level, for every one that chooses to do so. Same with PvP.
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Post by dirtrider00 on Jun 30, 2018 13:57:39 GMT
If Bioware decides to add pvp to Anthem I'm probably out. I spent 4 years playing Destiny and have watched weapons, supers, etc. go to crap thanks to the small minority of pvp players and streamers crying for nerfs. It starts small but after the first nerf, it steamrolls and then D2 comes out only to find the whole game has been designed and mainly balanced for pvp.
Basically, if Bioware designed Anthem around pve, keep it pve. If they want to add pvp later, sale it as a standalone
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Post by mmoblitz on Jun 30, 2018 14:37:33 GMT
At everyone else's expense. And it's not like there's a shortage of PvP to be had in other MP games.
Well, group based PvE content like strongholds/raids might never be done by players that are stricly playing solo for their own reasons. The most challenging content in this type of game is cleared by a small percentage of the playerbase. Is that content created at the expense of everyone else? No. It's an option to engage with the game on another level, for every one that chooses to do so. Same with PvP.
You seem to be missing the point. Many don't want it because the mechanics/gameplay will be balanced around PVP, even if you opt to not play in that mode. It just being in the game will effect everyone else. World of Warcraft is a perfect example. That is a PVE game at it's core, but with the optional PVP. I have never played the pvp portion and don't want to, but I don't know how many times a spell that is perfectly fine in PVE gets nerfed for PVP. Back in WOTLK I had a shammy that was usually invited to raids for the interrupt spell alone that had a 6 sec CD. The PVP crowd was crying that it was too powerful and it was nerfed. l think it was increased to be inline with other interrupts. What this meant was Shaman were no longer needed in raid groups since other classes could cover interrupts and brought other utilities to the table that shammy's couldn't. Just adding a few seconds to one spell made a class pointless in raids and it was all done because of PVP which has always had the smallest population of players in WoW. THis happens in any game that shares the same gear/mechanics across both PVE and PVP. The game will always be balanced around PVP even if you don't play it. This is the reason you see so many people not wanting it in Anthem.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 30, 2018 21:03:46 GMT
Well, group based PvE content like strongholds/raids might never be done by players that are stricly playing solo for their own reasons. The most challenging content in this type of game is cleared by a small percentage of the playerbase. Is that content created at the expense of everyone else? No. It's an option to engage with the game on another level, for every one that chooses to do so. Same with PvP.
You seem to be missing the point. Many don't want it because the mechanics/gameplay will be balanced around PVP, even if you opt to not play in that mode. It just being in the game will effect everyone else. World of Warcraft is a perfect example. That is a PVE game at it's core, but with the optional PVP. I have never played the pvp portion and don't want to, but I don't know how many times a spell that is perfectly fine in PVE gets nerfed for PVP. Back in WOTLK I had a shammy that was usually invited to raids for the interrupt spell alone that had a 6 sec CD. The PVP crowd was crying that it was too powerful and it was nerfed. l think it was increased to be inline with other interrupts. What this meant was Shaman were no longer needed in raid groups since other classes could cover interrupts and brought other utilities to the table that shammy's couldn't. Just adding a few seconds to one spell made a class pointless in raids and it was all done because of PVP which has always had the smallest population of players in WoW. This happens in any game that shares the same gear/mechanics across both PVE and PVP. The game will always be balanced around PVP even if you don't play it. This is the reason you see so many people not wanting it in Anthem.
Same with SWTOR. You get tons of skills in PVE that are only useful in PVP.
This is the same reason many people didnt' want Multiplayer in ME3. It turned out it didn't affect the game play much at all, so was fine. DAI, however, was another story. The gameplay was very different from the previous two games.
I agree with you, including that mode affects everything. It's not like they can make two completely different modes with unconnected design and playstyle. That would be too big.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Jun 30, 2018 21:06:14 GMT
At everyone else's expense. And it's not like there's a shortage of PvP to be had in other MP games.
Well, group based PvE content like strongholds/raids might never be done by players that are stricly playing solo for their own reasons. The most challenging content in this type of game is cleared by a small percentage of the playerbase. Is that content created at the expense of everyone else? No. It's an option to engage with the game on another level, for every one that chooses to do so. Same with PvP.
No, as another poster said, adding PVP changes a whole lot more than simply adding more higher level content to PVE.
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Post by Kroitz on Jul 1, 2018 7:08:55 GMT
You seem to be missing the point. Many don't want it because the mechanics/gameplay will be balanced around PVP, even if you opt to not play in that mode. It just being in the game will effect everyone else. World of Warcraft is a perfect example. That is a PVE game at it's core, but with the optional PVP. I have never played the pvp portion and don't want to, but I don't know how many times a spell that is perfectly fine in PVE gets nerfed for PVP. Back in WOTLK I had a shammy that was usually invited to raids for the interrupt spell alone that had a 6 sec CD. The PVP crowd was crying that it was too powerful and it was nerfed. l think it was increased to be inline with other interrupts. What this meant was Shaman were no longer needed in raid groups since other classes could cover interrupts and brought other utilities to the table that shammy's couldn't. Just adding a few seconds to one spell made a class pointless in raids and it was all done because of PVP which has always had the smallest population of players in WoW. This happens in any game that shares the same gear/mechanics across both PVE and PVP. The game will always be balanced around PVP even if you don't play it. This is the reason you see so many people not wanting it in Anthem.
Same with SWTOR. You get tons of skills in PVE that are only useful in PVP.
This is the same reason many people didnt' want Multiplayer in ME3. It turned out it didn't affect the game play much at all, so was fine. DAI, however, was another story. The gameplay was very different from the previous two games.
I agree with you, including that mode affects everything. It's not like they can make two completely different modes with unconnected design and playstyle. That would be too big.
Classes in WoW are balanced around their tier-set boni. PvP has an exclusive talent progression system and Interrupts have different effects in each case (full duration against mobs vs. reduced against players). The PvP landscape has evolved since 2008. Final Fantasy 14 for instance has different ability sets alltogether and gear is normalized only during PvP, it doesn't effect PVE.
The point about PvE beeing always balanced around PvP comes either from a past decade or from examples of developers who implemented it by design.
I agree that it costs ressources that could be used exclusively for PvE. I simply don't agree that they are wasted or spent at the expense of other players.
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Post by HowlingSiren on Jul 5, 2018 18:40:21 GMT
Yes, I would be in favor of PVP - but only if it's balanced on its own, and the balance changes do not affect PVE, for reasons others have rightly pointed out above.
As for my reasoning - I played a lot of ME3MP, which obviously had no PVP. What kept that mode fresh somehow was the huge variety of kits. You definitely ended up "beating" PVE, but it never got boring because of the different playstyles you could choose from. I also played many hours of the Division, and what I now most enjoy about it is PVP. The hardest PVE content was beaten by many players a while ago, and the kits are definitely not as varied as in ME3MP. So PVP with its unpredictability is where the challenge lies. I would have dropped the Division a while ago were it not for PVP.
Unless BioWare can very regularly release new PVE content (especially different playstyle kits), I'd say PVP would be a good addition to keep its players engaged between PVE releases.
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 5, 2018 18:44:43 GMT
If I want a PvP game I buy a dedicated one. When I buy a coop game I want a dedicated one. I've seen too many shitty "nor fish nor flesh" mixtures that couldn't handle it all in one.
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Post by akots on Jul 7, 2018 12:58:32 GMT
If I want a PvP game I buy a dedicated one. When I buy a coop game I want a dedicated one. I've seen too many shitty "nor fish nor flesh" mixtures that couldn't handle it all in one. PvP does not mean FFA. If you make it Division-style and not some Battle Royale, it might work at 4 vs 4 or 2 vs 2 for example or something like that. I would not discard an option.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 7, 2018 13:26:08 GMT
PvP does not mean FFA. If you make it Division-style and not some Battle Royale, it might work at 4 vs 4 or 2 vs 2 for example or something like that. I would not discard an option. Yet The Divison has a separate zone (which I thankfully can avoid). If PvP came to Anthem, I can't see it in the same map space, it would have to be somewhere else surely? And given there are no plans for it, I wouldn't expect plans for it to be considered until after launch, so IF PvP comes to Anthem, it won't be until 2020 at the very earliest.
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Post by akots on Jul 7, 2018 13:53:27 GMT
Yet The Divison has a separate zone (which I thankfully can avoid). Thankfully, yes, one can go straight to it and skip everything around. That type of separation is always a good idea.
If Anthem is aiming to get more than a year under its belt with some handy participation, it is got to come sooner or later in some form or another. Otherwise, it'll share the fate with other recent not so successful titles. PvP gives longevity. It does accommodate for some specific groups of players which is not necessarily a bad thing always. Depends on how it works.
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 7, 2018 21:02:49 GMT
Yet The Divison has a separate zone (which I thankfully can avoid). Thankfully, yes, one can go straight to it and skip everything around. That type of separation is always a good idea.
If Anthem is aiming to get more than a year under its belt with some handy participation, it is got to come sooner or later in some form or another. Otherwise, it'll share the fate with other recent not so successful titles. PvP gives longevity. It does accommodate for some specific groups of players which is not necessarily a bad thing always. Depends on how it works.
Hardly. PvP is not required, the Elder game however has to be strong enough for people to keep playing.
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Post by Kroitz on Jul 7, 2018 21:59:03 GMT
Thankfully, yes, one can go straight to it and skip everything around. That type of separation is always a good idea.
If Anthem is aiming to get more than a year under its belt with some handy participation, it is got to come sooner or later in some form or another. Otherwise, it'll share the fate with other recent not so successful titles. PvP gives longevity. It does accommodate for some specific groups of players which is not necessarily a bad thing always. Depends on how it works.
Hardly. PvP is not required, the Elder game however has to be strong enough for people to keep playing.
That's right, PvP isn't required to wait until weekly IDs are reset.
Could just give players an option to do something they might enjoy in the meantime.
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on Jul 7, 2018 23:10:31 GMT
Hardly. PvP is not required, the Elder game however has to be strong enough for people to keep playing.
That's right, PvP isn't required to wait until weekly IDs are reset.
Could just give players an option to do something they might enjoy in the meantime.
There will be the Elder game that won't need any weekly resets. Better they focus on that.
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