nunziodefilippis
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Jan 4, 2019 20:44:16 GMT
One of the things I found odd about the continued importance of the Venatori as bad guys after DAI was that I thought their whole reason for existing was Corypheus, the Elder One. They were his organisation and he was their leader. They were essentially supporting a living god who would restore Tevinter to supremacy. So when that god is proven both fallible and killable, it does rather destroy your reason for existing. Now I can see surviving members of the organisation reforming under a different name, still having the goal of restoring Tevinter to glory, but to my mind the name Venatori is now associated with failure and why would anyone want to buy into that? As I said, I'm not sure what Bioware's plans are for the Venatori. But Christina and I write them as if they're semi-defunct. They know each other and are avoiding persecution. That's why Florian is frustrated with Francesca - she was trying to find allies, when he and their father are trying to lie low.
Various families within the Venatori may still have plans, and they may use the old network to make things happen. But we're not writing them as if they are still active players as an organization. More like they were conspirators in a conspiracy that failed and they still look out for one another, but they're not really trying to get the old band back together.
Again, that's our take, and we write it so it can work either way in case Bioware has other plans. They sign off on everything we write, so thus far it's worked.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 4, 2019 21:21:39 GMT
As I said, I'm not sure what Bioware's plans are for the Venatori. But Christina and I write them as if they're semi-defunct. They know each other and are avoiding persecution. That's why Florian is frustrated with Francesca - she was trying to find allies, when he and their father are trying to lie low. Thank you, that does make sense.
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 4, 2019 21:24:31 GMT
But Christina and I write them as if they're semi-defunct. They know each other and are avoiding persecution. I think that’s the safe bet. Even if the Venatori numbered a few thousand members - and I think that’s probably the upper limit - quite a lot of them are dead now, so I can’t see the cult wielding any substantial power in Tevinter, especially if they’re frightened of Dorian’s fledgling group. Incidentally, may I ask if Florian and Francesca’s father is alive? Your comments suggest so, but it occurs to me that maybe he died in the invasion.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 4, 2019 21:34:27 GMT
If enough nobles would support a supremacist agenda than those he managed to off ( and we have evidence that there were way more than those few targeted) it means that Archon is in big trouble because he wouldn't even have to be killed in order to be removed. Do we? I think the fact that the Archon is still alive and well at least at the end of Trespasser is an indication that you have over imagined just how influential they were back in Tevinter. (Also see the post above by nunziodefilippis). There is also the Black Divine who would definitely not have approved of anyone encroaching on his power base. The Venatori may have been more successful in southern Tevinter or the east side, away from Minrathous, but not in the seat of power among the leaders of the Senate. In fact I'd find it rather disappointing if they did so easily manage to overcome such seasoned politicians as Radonis and Urian.
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Post by midnight tea on Jan 4, 2019 22:35:04 GMT
If enough nobles would support a supremacist agenda than those he managed to off ( and we have evidence that there were way more than those few targeted) it means that Archon is in big trouble because he wouldn't even have to be killed in order to be removed. Do we? Of course - from DAI and then from Deception itself, we know there are multiple magisters and noble houses working with Venatori. Nobody said that they aren't waiting for a more opportune moment to strike. They did try with Dorian, didn't they? I see it. The comic is written so it wouldn't obstruct Bioware if they chose to go with Venatori either way, so...? Also - being a seasoned politician doesn't mean that they can't be outplayed, or taken down by brutal moves or unlikely alliances. We do know it happened more than once in Thedas. It remains to be seen how well they'll play the game with the unrest in Tevinter caused by Qunari invasion.
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Jan 5, 2019 2:24:27 GMT
Incidentally, may I ask if Florian and Francesca’s father is alive? Your comments suggest so, but it occurs to me that maybe he died in the invasion. Francesca's father's fate will be explored if and when we get a chance to write her again. He was away from the city during the events of Deception. So, he likely was not there when the Qunari invaded.
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 5, 2019 8:00:49 GMT
THAT''s what I was remembering. Thank you. Calpernia and slavery is complicated, if I remember right. In her short story, I think she's not so much anti-slavery as anti-"slavery holding back people of merit". Like, if you aren't suited to much more than cleaning some altus' house, and that is what you are doing as a slave, she's fine with you staying that way. Like, for example, I don't think she'd have fought to free Orana. Its this interesting, but skewed perspective. Fenris is more the traditional "slavery bad" than Calpernia is. At least, in her short story. Whether she's still got that particular nuance to her stance by the time of DA4, assuming we even see her, I dunno. I hope she does. A slave who isn't entirely against all slavery is something we don't typically see in a story. I'd enjoy getting into fights with her. lol
I remember she had a line, "When a person's life was spent, it meant something - it bought something. If slaves had a voice the Archon could hear..." And part of her anger at Anodatus was that he was so condescending and dismissive towards her (because of her background), despite her accomplishments and magical prowess far exceeding his own, so I think there's an element of merit in there for sure. Like, "I proved that I belong here, I earned this, and other slaves deserve the opportunity to earn it too." 😎👌 I thought I'd also drop in this quote from her entry in WoT V2: "Her dreams of revitalizing the Imperium included uplifting the enslaved as real citizens. Calpernia believed in the worth of the people unseen by the powerful, and well-remembered her own longing for dignity. She purchased and freed many slaves with new position, cannily creating a network of spies loyal to her and her alone in the process."
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 8:18:47 GMT
I’m looking forward to seeing Francesca’s development of her views of the Venatori while traveling with the others. Calix I don’t imagine much from on that topic. Vaea and Aaron have limited exposure to them, the only direct contact being the group in Knight Errant. But then there is Tessa who has fought against them first by doing the assassinations for the Archon and later with the Inquisition so that could lead to some interesting interactions. Then last but certainly not least is Marius, who has everything Tessa has but adding the complicated situation between him and Calpernia.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 5, 2019 9:37:23 GMT
Nobody said that they aren't waiting for a more opportune moment to strike. They did try with Dorian, didn't they?
Well Dorian kept trying to play down his importance in the Magisterium, even the fact he was their official representative on the Exalted Council (though to be honest I didn't buy that one since no matter how much they despised the southerners they would have ensured the representative was someone they could trust to do the job properly). He is a founder of the Lucerni, which would make him a target of more than just the Venatori. He was fighting corruption in the ruling class but that included more than just the Venatori. The Black Divine is as corrupt as they come, according to the history of Seeker Lambert (not just his own words but in WoT2) but perfectly legit so far as his fellow Magisters are concerned. Using blood magic behind closed doors is not just something that Venatori supremists do, as codices from earlier eras confirm. To be honest I'd find it more satisfying locking horns with the Black Divine than some rag tag remnant of Corypheus' cohorts. I should imagine that most Magisters would like to see Tevinter masters of the world again, without joining the Venatori under Corypheus, that is why Dorian was going to have such an uphill task in stamping out corruption.
That said, the link with Danarius has me wondering if they are going to make a link between him and the Venatori. Hopefully not and his family is actually associated with a different Tevinter cult.
Castellum Tenebris - Castle of Shadow sounds like followers of Lusacan, although it could be an ancient structure from the Old God period that is still being used without the occupants having any loyalty to the deity. That whole bit connected with the Venatori in the epilogue to Trespasser was only mentioned in connection with a Bull romance, which seemed more to build up that aspect rather than indicate the Venatori were still a force to be reckoned with. He was also attacked when in the southern border lands, where we know they were active previously, having a rendezvous with his qunari lover. Most Tevinters would not draw any distinction between Qunari and Tal-Vashoth, which is why he was very coy afterwards about who rescued him, so those Venatori adherents probably felt quite safe in acting against him so far as the political ramifications to themselves were concerned. If the Venatori were really posing a continuing threat within the Magisterium and particularly to Dorian, I think that would have been mentioned in more than one romance specific screen. That is why it came as something of a surprise to find them mentioned with respect to Dorian/Bull and seemed more done to build Bull up as a hero rescuing his lover in distress than to show the Venatori were still a major player in Tevinter.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Jan 5, 2019 20:01:03 GMT
Incidentally, may I ask if Florian and Francesca’s father is alive? Your comments suggest so, but it occurs to me that maybe he died in the invasion. Francesca's father's fate will be explored if and when we get a chance to write her again. He was away from the city during the events of Deception. So, he likely was not there when the Qunari invaded. I must ask but what about Maevaris Tilani? Is she safe? I had the impression that she is a Ventus resident.
But the fate of Magister Ahriman (the master of Fenris sister Varania) is the most interesting of them all.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 20:06:30 GMT
Francesca's father's fate will be explored if and when we get a chance to write her again. He was away from the city during the events of Deception. So, he likely was not there when the Qunari invaded. I must ask but what about Maevaris Tilani? Is she safe? I had the impression that she is a Ventus resident.
But the fate of Magister Ahriman (the master of Fenris sister Varania) is the most interesting of them all. I’m sure she is. With a character that big, BioWare wouldn’t have her receive an offscreen death. Either she wasn’t there or she is helping Dorian with the evacuation.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Jan 5, 2019 20:16:12 GMT
I’m sure she is. With a character that big, BioWare wouldn’t have her receive an offscreen death. Either she wasn’t there or she is helping Dorian with the evacuation. I think so too but this isn´t official. But i believe that no one from importance had or will die during the Ventus invasion with the exception of Olivia.
Edit: I completely forgot about that Dorians mother Aquinea Thalrassian could be in danger. Is she safe?
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 5, 2019 21:00:04 GMT
I must ask but what about Maevaris Tilani? Is she safe? I had the impression that she is a Ventus resident.
But the fate of Magister Ahriman (the master of Fenris sister Varania) is the most interesting of them al Edit: I completely forgot about that Dorians mother Aquinea Thalrassian could be in danger. Is she safe?
With any luck these will be things we will discover in the game. I have to admit I was rather surprised that Ventus falls before we get involved. However, it could be that the start of DA4 would take place in Ventus with our PC among those fleeing the city. May be they are even charged with ensuring certain named characters get to safety as an initial plot thread.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Jan 5, 2019 21:27:30 GMT
With any luck these will be things we will discover in the game. Well with the exception of Cassandras first love Regalyan and Divine Justina of course we still don´t know if they were other known characters who also have died at the Conclave.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 5, 2019 22:34:19 GMT
However, it could be that the start of DA4 would take place in Ventus with our PC among those fleeing the city. May be they are even charged with ensuring certain named characters get to safety as an initial plot thread. Oh man, I would love it if we literally start in a burning building, have to find our way around the city amidst all the chaos, etc. That would be really cool.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 5, 2019 22:36:43 GMT
I must ask but what about Maevaris Tilani? Is she safe? I had the impression that she is a Ventus resident.
But the fate of Magister Ahriman (the master of Fenris sister Varania) is the most interesting of them al Edit: I completely forgot about that Dorians mother Aquinea Thalrassian could be in danger. Is she safe?
With any luck these will be things we will discover in the game. I have to admit I was rather surprised that Ventus falls before we get involved. However, it could be that the start of DA4 would take place in Ventus with our PC among those fleeing the city. May be they are even charged with ensuring certain named characters get to safety as an initial plot thread. Well, Dorian does have a crystal that allows him to contact a certain someone who could arrive to help.
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Post by lucidae on May 4, 2019 7:50:00 GMT
I finished the comic recently, and of the comics released post-DAI this one was my least favorite. I didn't like Pride or Calix.
Also, I'm so used to Qarinus being qarinus that I didn't even realize the story took place in Qarinus until coming to this thread. The Ventus name change has really messed with me. I hope we still get to go there in the game. But im really looking forward to minrathous
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 4, 2019 22:30:14 GMT
EA Play reveal of just some concept art of Minrathous, along with official confirmation DA4 is in dev, would put me over the moon.
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Post by thats1evildude on May 6, 2019 17:04:17 GMT
I’m surprised I never noticed this before now, but it hit me on the drive into work that there’s a difference in how the Qunari are portrayed in Issue 1 and Issue 3. In the first issue, they appear as regular Qunari and have normal speech balloons. In the third issue, they have raised bumps on their shoulders and their word balloons have a wavy pattern that usually denotes something unnatural in comics. Is it an inconsistency, or an indication that the Qunari in Issue 3 have been altered? My mind immediately goes to dragon blood.
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Post by Iddy on May 6, 2019 17:19:12 GMT
I gotta say... I'm not a fan of the shoulder warts.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 7, 2019 4:24:47 GMT
I'm not a fan of the order to kill the powerful magister...
Also, good point thats1evildude I had no idea what to make of that look before, but you are right, it might be an augment. Dragon blood is a possibility. Could be a red lyrium thing, also. The changes remind me a bit of red templar behemoths.
Or it could be a mix of the two. Dragons can handle being blighted by creating cysts around the blighted tissue, and cysts would look like a bump when on the skin. The qunari are already hinted to have Dragon-like properties in their physiology. They might be able to be tweaked(I guess that's the word?) to allow them to host red lyrium and draw strength from it while not succumbing to its effects. Super soldier qunari.
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Post by gervaise21 on May 7, 2019 19:31:00 GMT
Is it an inconsistency, or an indication that the Qunari in Issue 3 have been altered? My mind immediately goes to dragon blood. Good call, it does look like they've been altered. The Viddasala was conducting research to power boost their mages so who is to say that the experiments stopped there? They might be able to be tweaked(I guess that's the word?) to allow them to host red lyrium and draw strength from it while not succumbing to its effects
It is possible the writers have done this but I hope not. The Qunari were trying to stop red lyrium going north and if you chose to help them it would be a double betrayal to discover they were trying to stop Tevinter getting something they were already using. Still, they had plenty of opportunity to see what it did do to the Red Templars. I assume their agents in the Inquisition would be able to also feed back the information that red lyrium is infected with the Blight. Dragons are only resistant to the blight initially; it takes longer but eventually they do succumb. Red Templars merely look odd initially and then it gradually takes over. So ultimately the Qunari should be overwhelmed even if it does take longer than for a human. They would also have the experience of the Viddasala and ordinary lyrium to know that you are playing with fire trying to boost soldiers with either type of the stuff. Would they really risk their soldiers in such a way? Even if the answer to that was, yes, would they really want to risk having crazed out of control soldiers? That runs contrary to the entire Qun philosophy.
Mind you, looking at some of those end scenes, some of the soldiers do look really pumped up and ultra aggressive, so may be the Ariqun are prepared to be hypocrites if it gives them a tactical advantage.
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Post by thats1evildude on May 7, 2019 19:41:11 GMT
I favour "dragon blood" as the reason why the Issue 3 qunari look different. Red lyrium tends to cause very specific symptoms — dark red veins, pale skin, crystalline growths sprouting from the skin, etc. These qunari are definitely deformed, but they don't remind me of Red Templars.
The qunari revere dragons and we've heard the Iron Bull speculate that the qunari are dosed with dragon blood. Perhaps they select certain warriors to be used as shock troops and dose them with extra quantities of dragon blood, giving them a more bestial appearance and making them even fiercer fighters.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on May 8, 2019 1:24:09 GMT
I agree red lyrium would ultimately be a bad idea, but if its just dragon's blood, then aren't they just Reavers? And reavers don't grow shoulder warts, as far as I know. So I think it has to be something other than, or in addition to, dragon blood.
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Post by thats1evildude on May 8, 2019 1:32:29 GMT
I agree red lyrium would ultimately be a bad idea, but if its just dragon's blood, then aren't they just Reavers? And reavers don't grow shoulder warts, as far as I know. So I think it has to be something other than, or in addition to, dragon blood. Apparently consuming too much dragon blood causes "growths" and "scales.” The shoulder warts could be the start of spikes.
Murderous rage is also an apparent side effect.
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