dmc1001
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 10:04:28 GMT
I disagree about Kaidan. Kaidan came on to my straight male Shep, out of the blue, and really threw me for a loop. Besides the fact that in ME1 it seemed like Kaidan was ready to make out with whichever sexed Shep came to talk to him, I never had a clue. It was jarring. Bisexuality is a real, actual thing. Sometimes people don't act on it until is seems like it makes sense. Or maybe they never do. Regardless of whether or not it came out of the blue, the romance itself was done well. If a female friend of mine told me I have to have a baby with her to prove I was a "real man" I'd tell her to fuck off before shoving her out the airlock. That's highly offensive. I am a real man and no one ever thinks otherwise. I dress very casual, people have to fix the way my clothes are on, I'm not neat, I don't go to the gym, my hair has needed to be cut for at least a month and, tbh, most people don't even know I'm gay unless there's a relevant reason to bring it up. So, yeah, it was bullshit how the Scott/Gil relationship went. With Kaidan, it was an evolution of his character. He realized how much Shepard meant to him when he died and, despite being a dick in ME2 and early ME3 (which Ash also was), he decided to take a chance since the galaxy was probably going to end anyway.
EDIT: I should point out that the s/s relationships were what drew me into the MET in early 2016. I'd heard of ME before but I think I had a distorted view of what it actually was. Then I just plain fell in love with the entire trilogy.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 16, 2018 10:10:59 GMT
I disagree about Kaidan. Kaidan came on to my straight male Shep, out of the blue, and really threw me for a loop. Besides the fact that in ME1 it seemed like Kaidan was ready to make out with whichever sexed Shep came to talk to him, I never had a clue. It was jarring. Bisexuality is a real, actual thing. Sometimes people don't act on it until is seems like it makes sense. Or maybe they never do. Regardless of whether or not it came out of the blue, the romance itself was done well. If a female friend of mine told me I have to have a baby with her to prove I was a "real man" I'd tell her to fuck off before shoving her out the airlock. That's highly offensive. I am a real man and no one ever thinks otherwise. I dress very casual, people have to fix the way my clothes are on, I'm not neat, I don't go to the gym, my hair has needed to be cut for at least a month and, tbh, most people don't even know I'm gay unless there's a relevant reason to bring it up. So, yeah, it was bullshit how the Scott/Gil relationship went. With Kaidan, it was an evolution of his character. He realized how much Shepard meant to him when he died and, despite being a dick in ME2 and early ME3 (which Ash also was), he decided to take a chance since the galaxy was probably going to end anyway.
EDIT: I should point out that the s/s relationships were what drew me into the MET in early 2016. I'd heard of ME before but I think I had a distorted view of what it actually was. Then I just plain fell in love with the entire trilogy.
I disagree on Kaidan. They could have slipped some indication of his desires in several points of the previous games. The rest - we have no argument.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 16, 2018 11:58:46 GMT
So what you are saying is you don't like BioWare portraying a same sex relationship they way it happens right now and they are only allowed to portray relationships in the most idealized position available? BioWare did fine with Kaidan and Steve. It was some real bullshit with Gil. If this sort of bullshit were happening to straight characters you'd be losing your shit. Don't assume what would make me "lose my shit".
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 16, 2018 15:38:55 GMT
Bisexuality is a real, actual thing. Sometimes people don't act on it until is seems like it makes sense. Or maybe they never do. Regardless of whether or not it came out of the blue, the romance itself was done well. I disagree on Kaidan. They could have slipped some indication of his desires in several points of the previous games. Well, they could have, sure. But they didn't. I'm not sure it follows that they shouldn't have designed ME3 the way they did. I know several people who were heterosexual until they weren't. (I think I'm quoting Dan Savage there.)
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 16:31:30 GMT
I disagree on Kaidan. They could have slipped some indication of his desires in several points of the previous games. That was cut content. The dialogue in ME1 and ME2 is there. An ambitious modder restored all of it.
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Biotic Booty
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 16, 2018 16:32:13 GMT
BioWare did fine with Kaidan and Steve. It was some real bullshit with Gil. If this sort of bullshit were happening to straight characters you'd be losing your shit. Don't assume what would make me "lose my shit". You seemed to lack empathy for people wanting to see representation.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Aug 16, 2018 17:04:56 GMT
Only if it includes (1) a mech-dog with more personality than KEI-9 from ME3, and (2) a more sensible casual outfit than that goofy "athletic" one from Andromeda (who walks around dressed like that aside from when they are in fact working out?).
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Aug 16, 2018 17:11:24 GMT
You'd be wrong. He's played, at the very least, all four ME games and all three DA games. His issue isn't so much with the overall game but lack of LGBT representation. He said as much in his post. Thanks for clearing that up. I don't check this board as much lately. Yeah, some of the past romances have been cringy, but they have never been homophobic and as nonsensical as Gil's romance was. It was an all-time low for BioWare on the representation front in a game where there is any gay content at all. I've only played the game all the way through once, with a female character. What happened in the MRyder/Gil romance that was offensive?
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 16, 2018 18:47:53 GMT
Only if it includes (1) a mech-dog with more personality than KEI-9 from ME3, and (2) a more sensible casual outfit than that goofy "athletic" one from Andromeda (who walks around dressed like that aside from when they are in fact working out?). I dunno where you are from, but a lot of people here in Finland use that kind of athletic clothing. Hoodies are norm everywhere.
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Aug 16, 2018 22:09:29 GMT
Only if it includes (1) a mech-dog with more personality than KEI-9 from ME3, and (2) a more sensible casual outfit than that goofy "athletic" one from Andromeda (who walks around dressed like that aside from when they are in fact working out?). I dunno where you are from, but a lot of people here in Finland use that kind of athletic clothing. Hoodies are norm everywhere. I meant the outfit FemRyder has with the huge headphones around her neck - it just seems odd that she'd be dressed like that when walking around the Nexus unless she's on her way to or from the gym.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Aug 17, 2018 7:19:37 GMT
I dunno where you are from, but a lot of people here in Finland use that kind of athletic clothing. Hoodies are norm everywhere. I meant the outfit FemRyder has with the huge headphones around her neck - it just seems odd that she'd be dressed like that when walking around the Nexus unless she's on her way to or from the gym. Naah, pretty normal sight here too =) - I may then live among hipsters eh?
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Post by quole on Aug 17, 2018 10:28:15 GMT
Tali was the only thing that got me through ME2 and ME3. And given Bioware's hatred of quarians I doubt there will be any in the next ME game (if of course there ever is another one). Vetra was the only thing that got me through Andromeda. If there was another ME game that was a true sequel and not a damn prequel and they got rid of the head writers from ME3 and it had quarians in it then I would give it a shot. Otherwise with ME2, ME3, TOR, MEA, DA2, DAI I have lost all faith in this company. I havent liked a Bioware game since ME2 and even that has so many problems with it that the more I look at it the more I dislike it. Just let a decent company like CD Projekt Red take the franchise . They would do this series justice unlike Bioware.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 17, 2018 13:15:54 GMT
I disagree on Kaidan. They could have slipped some indication of his desires in several points of the previous games. That was cut content. The dialogue in ME1 and ME2 is there. An ambitious modder restored all of it. True but IIRC its not all there at least in ME 1 because I don't think Mark Meer recorded those lines.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 17, 2018 16:19:35 GMT
I dunno where you are from, but a lot of people here in Finland use that kind of athletic clothing. Hoodies are norm everywhere. I meant the outfit FemRyder has with the huge headphones around her neck - it just seems odd that she'd be dressed like that when walking around the Nexus unless she's on her way to or from the gym. Since the Tempest has no gym, I guess she jogs around the ship. Like Starbuck does in the BSG pilot.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 17, 2018 18:05:00 GMT
That was cut content. The dialogue in ME1 and ME2 is there. An ambitious modder restored all of it. True but IIRC its not all there at least in ME 1 because I don't think Mark Meer recorded those lines. He did. He and Hale recorded the same dialogue. I don't really get the reasons why but that's what happened. There were some issues. For one, Shepard didn't stand over Kaidan following the sex scene. Second, the email to a male Shepard still used "woman". Third is that while in the beginning the prior romance is remembered, they forget by the time they have the Apollo's date. The modder somehow fixed these issues. If he could do this with minor alterations, I'm sure BioWare devs could manage.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 18, 2018 18:01:23 GMT
I did not know about the cut content, just always found it a little "suggestive" in how close-talky they are on the Normandy.
That said, it was never explicit in-game, and so he became my bro. That's what made it jarring, but he was and is still my bro. It wasn't "out of character", but it was out of the blue.
Amongst ME3s problems, that one doesn't register. Just a personal thing I guess.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 18, 2018 18:09:15 GMT
In Mass Effect 1 they had Hale and Meer record every line, including ones only meant for one of them, to make it easier or something. You can find on YouTube for example Meer doing the Femshep lines with Harkin.
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Post by Terminator Force on Aug 18, 2018 18:14:55 GMT
Mine is ready for processing. How about yoooouuurrrrs? Yeah sure, dumpster fire or not. But only because this community.
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Post by Phantom on Aug 18, 2018 19:22:31 GMT
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 24, 2018 1:18:17 GMT
I disagree on Kaidan. They could have slipped some indication of his desires in several points of the previous games. Well, they could have, sure. But they didn't. I'm not sure it follows that they shouldn't have designed ME3 the way they did. I know several people who were heterosexual until they weren't. (I think I'm quoting Dan Savage there.) Continuity, my man. As you said, they didn't, so to me what happened does not follow. As for the Savage quote, I'll quote Cobain instead: everyone is gay. It's a spectrum. People can deny that, and I think those that do have some deep closets. I think there are certainly people that have very little sexual appreciation or interest in the same sex, but I think many people when cornered would admit to a passing curiosity, an experiment of their youth, etc etc - and then certainly there are many gayer than that I don't want games to have justice quotas. I wasn't bothered by gay companions in any of the games... Well, er, Anders you're a weird fuck. I enjoyed being a lesbian and a gay man in several BioWare games, for at least a playthrough. But if we have to reach a quota to please a specific audience, that is potentially going to offend another audience. It must be done well and thoughtfully. Didn't play MEA, can't speak to Gil or Jaal or any of that. That game was a mess though, so I don't doubt they blew the dog on that one.
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Post by alanc9 on Aug 24, 2018 5:07:43 GMT
I still don't see the problem.
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 15:36:55 GMT
Well, they could have, sure. But they didn't. I'm not sure it follows that they shouldn't have designed ME3 the way they did. I know several people who were heterosexual until they weren't. (I think I'm quoting Dan Savage there.) Continuity, my man. As you said, they didn't, so to me what happened does not follow. As for the Savage quote, I'll quote Cobain instead: everyone is gay. Didn't play MEA, can't speak to Gil or Jaal or any of that. That game was a mess though, so I don't doubt they blew the dog on that one. I'm not sure people are heterosexual until they're not. Maybe they weren't aware or suppressed it or knew what they liked by didn't make links. (Personally, I knew I liked guys all along but it took until I was an adult to connect my feelings with being gay. Not in the closet but didn't know what the attraction meant.) In any case, Kaidan could still be primarily hetero (say, much more likely to be with a woman) but realized, over the course of time, that his feelings for BroShep were stronger than he knew. Hence, when the galaxy is about to go up in flames, he decides "Fuck it. I'm interested and I'm going to go for it."
Jaal was whatever. He's from an alien race. We don't know how they think in terms of sexuality. They might not even have hetero/homo/bi concepts. They just go with who they like. (Pansexual?)
Gil is another story. He was actually decent. The problem was when his best friend Jill told him he "wasn't doing his duty as a man" unless he procreated. Meanwhile, a shit ton of people are still in cryo because there's no place to put them. This says to me that the writers had no clue how to handle same-sex relations and so screwed it up. Should have done a bit more research and learned that whatever sexuality anyone might have, it doesn't make the man lesser for not having kids.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2018 20:01:19 GMT
Jaal was whatever. He's from an alien race. We don't know how they think in terms of sexuality. They might not even have hetero/homo/bi concepts. They just go with who they like. (Pansexual?) I don't think so, since Avela is still only available for Scott. Then again she may be a minority among the Angara.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 24, 2018 20:25:25 GMT
Jaal was whatever. He's from an alien race. We don't know how they think in terms of sexuality. They might not even have hetero/homo/bi concepts. They just go with who they like. (Pansexual?) I don't think so, since Avela is still only available for Scott. Then again she may be a minority among the Angara. I don't really know either way. Just because someone is [potentially] pansexual it doesn't mean they have to be interested in everyone. But you do have a point.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Aug 24, 2018 21:01:09 GMT
I don't think so, since Avela is still only available for Scott. Then again she may be a minority among the Angara. I don't really know either way. Just because someone is [potentially] pansexual it doesn't mean they have to be interested in everyone. But you do have a point. That's true. The only thing we know about her sexuality is she has that message to her mother about how a guy I think she got set up with that says she ended things because they were too different, she is completely oblivious to Jaal's crush towards her according to gossip, and her romance with Scott culminates with just a kiss. Personally I'd like to think she is part of the Ace Spectrum.
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