TheEmptyRoad
N2
Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3mptyRoad
PSN: TheEmptyRoad
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Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Aug 14, 2018 20:00:37 GMT
Hrmmmmm...*thinking hard about my canon AGAIN*
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Post by vertigomez on Aug 15, 2018 20:27:11 GMT
Nope. Way I see it, we came to fix the hole in the sky and we did that. Mission accomplished, we can all go home now.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 16, 2018 2:20:53 GMT
I despise the Chantry and it only becomes remotely tolerable as an organisation with Leliana in charge. I don't see disbanding the Inquisition as a waste, I see it as preventing a corrupt organisation from consolidating even more power.
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Post by warden on Aug 16, 2018 23:23:38 GMT
Hmmm, no to be honest, for starters the Inquisition was the backup plan, if Justinia had succeeded at the conclave, the Inquisition wouldn't have been brought back to start with.
As the conclave exploded and all gone to hell, the world was in shambles and bla bla bla, the backup plan was to bring the Inquisition and restore order to the world and after that disband the organization. By the end of the game, the purpose was fulfilled, so there was no need to keep existing, mission accomplished, disband and go back to your home for some vacation.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Aug 16, 2018 23:44:51 GMT
Hmmm, no to be honest, for starters the Inquisition was the backup plan, if Justinia had succeeded at the conclave, the Inquisition wouldn't have been brought back to start with. As the conclave exploded and all gone to hell, the world was in shambles and bla bla bla, the backup plan was to bring the Inquisition and restore order to the world and after that disband the organization. By the end of the game, the purpose was fulfilled, so there was no need to keep existing, mission accomplished, disband and go back to your home for some vacation. Or just skim as much of the coffers as won't be missed and go to any home you want.
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LogicGunn
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I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 17, 2018 21:19:44 GMT
The inquisition existed for specific reasons and completed it's goal. I'm not a fan of having militant groups with no endgame, they tend to lose focus and morality trickles away.
It was hard work sorting out the rifts and coriphyshit and the chantry and...but it was worth it.
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Post by emissaryoflies on Sept 8, 2018 12:10:45 GMT
Wasted on what appears to be ungrateful fools some of whom deliberately sabotaged your efforts in the beginning? Yes. But saving the world is its own reward.
One of the things that Inquisition's Trespasser really did well was bringing home Solas' point about those with power usually being unwilling to relinquish it. You actually feel it in this game. How many missions, how many sleepless nights, how many fires put out, and only to be offered an execution or to be muzzled in the end. There was something so ugly about it. It disgusted me. And the thought had crossed my mind that maybe this world wasn't worth saving, but that was just anger talking. In the end, I just had to look at it from a narrative point of view and really appreciate the question that the writers were asking us.
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boxofscreaming
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 8, 2018 14:03:28 GMT
The fewer powerful armed groups with ties to the Chantry there are, the better, as far as I'm concerned.
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Post by ellehaym on Sept 8, 2018 17:40:42 GMT
I was always of the opinion that the Inquisition would disband eventually much like how the original did.
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Post by Iddy on Sept 8, 2018 20:31:19 GMT
After ending the Blight, (if alive) the HoF still is a GW. Even more: The Warden-Commander and maybe even the queen.
After the events of DA2, Hawke still is the champion of Kirkwall even if s/he says "I don't use that title much anymore".
After Trespasser, the Inquisitor is... nobody.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 9, 2018 16:15:51 GMT
After ending the Blight, (if alive) the HoF still is a GW. Even more: The Warden-Commander and maybe even the queen. After the events of DA2, Hawke still is the champion of Kirkwall even if s/he says "I don't use that title much anymore". After Trespasser, the Inquisitor is... nobody. They're free to get on with their life without everyone proclaiming them to be the messiah and expecting them to somehow save the world from ancient evils. Seems like a good deal to me.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 10, 2018 5:16:41 GMT
After ending the Blight, (if alive) the HoF still is a GW. Even more: The Warden-Commander and maybe even the queen. After the events of DA2, Hawke still is the champion of Kirkwall even if s/he says "I don't use that title much anymore". After Trespasser, the Inquisitor is... nobody. They still have their fame, they still know some pretty influential people, they're probably still ridiculously rich, they still have their (potentially very rich) LI... and I think they're still the leader of the Inquisition if it wasn't disbanded, even if they've scaled down and bent the knee to the Divine (who it should be noted they're almost certainly friends with given that the person whose ruling style you most align with is supposed to get the top spot.) That's not being nobody. And even if the Inquisition was theoretically disbanded... After ending the Blight, (if alive) the HoF still is a GW. Even more: The Warden-Commander and maybe even the queen. After the events of DA2, Hawke still is the champion of Kirkwall even if s/he says "I don't use that title much anymore". After Trespasser, the Inquisitor is... nobody. They're free to get on with their life without everyone proclaiming them to be the messiah and expecting them to somehow save the world from ancient evils. Seems like a good deal to me. <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="3.960000000000008" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62000000000012px; height: 3.960000000000008px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5123827" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="3.960000000000008" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 3.96px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_12326623" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="3.960000000000008" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 3.96px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 138px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_51690108" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.62000000000012" height="3.960000000000008" style="position: absolute; width: 23.62px; height: 3.96px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1121px; top: 138px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_38274789" scrolling="no"></iframe> Well, yeah, they could do that. But the end of Trespasser makes clear that they aren't. Even if the Inquisition disbands, the Inquisitor and the Inner Circle are still active, trying to find some way to fight Solas using what they haven't given up.
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Post by boxofscreaming on Sept 10, 2018 16:27:59 GMT
Well, yeah, they could do that. But the end of Trespasser makes clear that they aren't. Even if the Inquisition disbands, the Inquisitor and the Inner Circle are still active, trying to find some way to fight Solas using what they haven't given up. More's the pity. I'd rather have the Inquisitor retire. After all, this Solas stuff could amount to nothing, like the Architect.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 10, 2018 17:01:41 GMT
Well, yeah, they could do that. But the end of Trespasser makes clear that they aren't. Even if the Inquisition disbands, the Inquisitor and the Inner Circle are still active, trying to find some way to fight Solas using what they haven't given up. More's the pity. I'd rather have the Inquisitor retire. After all, this Solas stuff could amount to nothing, like the Architect. While it's possible that Solas could go the way of the Architect, I see that as unlikely. Simply because the Architect was strictly a DLC character, whereas Solas is not.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 10, 2018 17:17:09 GMT
Well, yeah, they could do that. But the end of Trespasser makes clear that they aren't. Even if the Inquisition disbands, the Inquisitor and the Inner Circle are still active, trying to find some way to fight Solas using what they haven't given up. More's the pity. I'd rather have the Inquisitor retire. After all, this Solas stuff could amount to nothing, like the Architect. For one thing they are semi-retired. They say they aren't planning to directly fight Solas, but instead recruit people who can. For another, I think the end of Trespasser made fairly clear this Solas stuff isn't going to amount to nothing. The only way they could have been less subtle about him being a major future plot point would have been to write "To Be Continued" across the end of that scene at the War Table. Though I'm always a little bit leery of saying that choices that the writers haven't resolved yet have come to nothing, anyway. It'd be one thing if the Keep didn't record it, like the choice to kill Brother Genitivi, or if it had already been reopened and unambiguously closed in an unsatisfying way, like the choice to let Sofia's undead form loose on the world. But neither of those has happened here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2018 17:39:05 GMT
I wouldn't put it in such words that it was wasted, but there is that discontent.
When the main game ends, I have that victory over a villain, satisfied feeling. The world is saved let's drink and party. The game feels like it came to a good ending.
It's not the same after Trespasser. I believe the unease is that of being used and then discarded, and the worst part is realization that those who were trying to tear into Inquisition are partially right.
The game compares new Inquisition to the old one - however - there is one capital difference. The old Inquisition 'laid down the sword' right after their victory. They left on good will. Our Inquisition is ultimately disbanded or shrunk and made subservient because everything turned sour. The motivation that guides the Inquisitor lies in a realization that the organization became so big, it grew out of control and became corrupted. That's why, in part, that Qunari plot became possible or was aided at the Winter Palace. This is a bitter feeling to walk away with from the game.
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mikoto
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Big fan of the Dragon Age series. Usually enjoy a good lore discussion.
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Post by mikoto on Sept 22, 2018 20:33:08 GMT
I have to admit I did feel like most of the effort that when into the Inquisition was wasted and I felt like my Inquisitor and most of her companions had been used and discarded. Betrayed by her allies and the ungrateful people she'd saved when I initially completed Trespasser for the first time. That feeling lingered for quite a few weeks.
However I came to realise my Inquisitor was right when she said that the Inquisition had completed its goals and it was now time to step down. Right at the beginning of the game Cassandra stated the goals were to seal the breach, find those responsible, then restore peace and order to Thedas. In the end that's exactly what the Inquisition achieved. I sort of headcanon that the two years between the end of DAI and the start of Trespasser were spent doing JoH and Descent, and the function of the Inquisition was keeping southern Thedas stable whilst guiding it back to a state of 'peace and order.'
The fact that the traditional 'powers that be' in southern Thedas were starting to rail against the Inquisition was a sign that it was no longer needed. Peace and order had been restored and there was no room for a directionless, purposeless organisation that the Inquisition had become. The widespread infiltration and corruption by no less than two 'hostile' factions was further proof that it was time to disband/neuter the Inquisition.
So personally I chose to disband the Inquisition entirely, let all those hundreds/thousands of people go back to their lives knowing they'd helped save the world. It would also free my Inquisitor, Sophie Trevelyan (or Rutherford I suppose since she married Cullen) to pursue her own goals without any official duties getting in the way. Admittedly I don't quite know what she'll be up to by the time DA4 rolls around but for now I can imagine her recruiting a group of people to track down Solas in between enjoying the peace she's more than earned with her new husband.
That being said, I admit there is a small amount of lingering bitterness from the way Ferelden, Orlais and several of her allies behaved during Trespasser. Its still worth it however.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 22, 2018 20:48:06 GMT
More's the pity. I'd rather have the Inquisitor retire. After all, this Solas stuff could amount to nothing, like the Architect. For one thing they are semi-retired. They say they aren't planning to directly fight Solas, but instead recruit people who can. My Inquisitors said no such thing.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 23, 2018 12:29:16 GMT
For one thing they are semi-retired. They say they aren't planning to directly fight Solas, but instead recruit people who can. My Inquisitors said no such thing. Well, fair enough, but it's at least implied by the the post-credits scene no matter what dialogue choices you make.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 23, 2018 15:22:56 GMT
My Inquisitors said no such thing. Well, fair enough, but it's at least implied by the the post-credits scene no matter what dialogue choices you make. I disagree. I saw the ending as implying the exact opposite.
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Big fan of the Dragon Age series. Usually enjoy a good lore discussion.
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Post by mikoto on Sept 23, 2018 19:40:57 GMT
Interesting, I thought the ending was being left open to player interpretation so they could have a little bit of a say on what their former Inquisitor does after the end of Trespasser. Personally I did a bit of headcanon and it varies depending on which ex-Inquisitor it is. Olivia Trevelyan-Rutherford chose to disband the Inquisition entirely but didn't let Orlais, the Chantry or Ferelden get their grubby paws on the fortune and resources the Inquisition had accumulated throughout its time. During the disbanding process she portioned out the lands owned by the Inquisition to deserving individuals and spread out a lot of the gold/stuff to the former rank-and-file. She kept enough to keep Skyhold for herself and reopened it as a mage academy where mage children could be voluntarily be sent to learn their power. As a mage herself she felt this was a good cause. Cullen helped co-run it and established a few trusted ex-Templars to act as safety nets during potentially dangerous magical lessons or experiments. (This comes under the 'doing good causes under their own terms' bit. ) Olivia didn't forget about Solas however and hired a small but hired team led by Harding to continue to track and find Solas then alert her if/when they learnt something useful. One day she'll go try to redeem him. Or whatever happens in DA4. You never know. Tasha Lavellan also disbanded her Inquisition entirely and 'redistributed' the gold/stuff much in the same way as I described with Sophie. She also turned Skyhold into a mage and learning academy though it was largely Elven and much of the focus went into trying to collect up all the different lore and traditions from various Dalish clans and getting it all in one place. Very much dedicated to trying to piece together as much about Elf history as possible. As a mage herself and having drunk from the Well of Sorrows she was constantly recording down new information as she learnt to 'master' the voices of the Well better over the years. There's no way Tasha could have forgotten Solas since she romanced him and again put together a team led by Harding to try and find him, as well as seeking him in her dreams. Eliza Adaar also disbanded her Inquisition and did the same redistribution trick with land/gold/stuff as my other characters. She turned Skyhold into a settlement for Vashoth/Tal Vashoth. For any horned grey one that wanted to escape the Qun yet live amongst his or her own kind. She'd romanced Iron Bull and saved the Chargers so he remained at her side. Skyhold became both a town and the biggest source of Vashoth mercenaries. She hired Harding and several others to track Solas of course. One day she'll put a knife between his ribs. Of course I know all this is purely headcanon and speculation and will likely change when DA4 eventually does come out. But DA4 is a very long way away and I don't care to wait that long. So I headcanon what my ex-Inquisitors do. Its easier than just waiting in limbo to be told. *Amused.* And its usually interesting to compare what I came up with against what the Devs actually write.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 23, 2018 23:11:51 GMT
Well, fair enough, but it's at least implied by the the post-credits scene no matter what dialogue choices you make. I disagree. I saw the ending as implying the exact opposite. I don't see it. I'll admit that part of the reason I interpret it that way is that I'm not judging it as a individual scene, but in the context of the devs repeatedly saying it's a new PC every game and specifically telling us that Trespasser was meant to wrap up the Inquisitor's story. But for one thing I don't think it's wise to ignore those dev statements if you really want to understand what we're supposed to be seeing, and for another thing even if I do take the scene on its own merits, I don't think the last two lines strongly indicate that the Inquisitor plans to directly go toe-to-toe with Solas. I think they strongly indicate that they're going to look for someone else to do it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Sept 24, 2018 4:06:30 GMT
I disagree. I saw the ending as implying the exact opposite. I don't see it. I'll admit that part of the reason I interpret it that way is that I'm not judging it as a individual scene, but in the context of the devs repeatedly saying it's a new PC every game and specifically telling us that Trespasser was meant to wrap up the Inquisitor's story. But for one thing I don't think it's wise to ignore those dev statements if you really want to understand what we're supposed to be seeing, and for another thing even if I do take the scene on its own merits, I don't think the last two lines strongly indicate that the Inquisitor plans to directly go toe-to-toe with Solas. I think they strongly indicate that they're going to look for someone else to do it. Oh, I've acknowledged the dev comments. I've made my opinions about that decision well known. Hopefully since it has been over half a decade and counting they've changed their minds. As for on its own merits, again I disagree. To me and others those lines seemed to refer to getting a new group of people to help fight, but not as the protagonist and instead as like the new companions.
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Post by OhDaniGirl on Sept 24, 2018 4:56:17 GMT
I disagree. I saw the ending as implying the exact opposite. I don't see it. I'll admit that part of the reason I interpret it that way is that I'm not judging it as a individual scene, but in the context of the devs repeatedly saying it's a new PC every game and specifically telling us that Trespasser was meant to wrap up the Inquisitor's story. But for one thing I don't think it's wise to ignore those dev statements if you really want to understand what we're supposed to be seeing, and for another thing even if I do take the scene on its own merits, I don't think the last two lines strongly indicate that the Inquisitor plans to directly go toe-to-toe with Solas. I think they strongly indicate that they're going to look for someone else to do it. I keep seeing people say this. Is there a source? I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'd just like to see it for myself.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Sept 24, 2018 8:04:24 GMT
I don't see it. I'll admit that part of the reason I interpret it that way is that I'm not judging it as a individual scene, but in the context of the devs repeatedly saying it's a new PC every game and specifically telling us that Trespasser was meant to wrap up the Inquisitor's story. But for one thing I don't think it's wise to ignore those dev statements if you really want to understand what we're supposed to be seeing, and for another thing even if I do take the scene on its own merits, I don't think the last two lines strongly indicate that the Inquisitor plans to directly go toe-to-toe with Solas. I think they strongly indicate that they're going to look for someone else to do it. Oh, I've acknowledged the dev comments. I've made my opinions about that decision well known. Hopefully since it has been over half a decade and counting they've changed their minds. And I'm not sure I disagree in that handing Solas over to the new PC feels kind of cheap. But even if they do change their minds (which is unlikely but possible: they did bow to fan pressure as far as adding race choices to Inqusition) the fact remains that we all know full well that's not what they meant the end of Trespasser to communicate.Despite the fact that the Inquisitor would need to learn how to fight one-handed, and the fact that the "Solas knows everything about us" line doesn't apply any less to the Inquisitor than it does to the companions? There's solutions to either problem, but finding another PC solves both. I don't see it. I'll admit that part of the reason I interpret it that way is that I'm not judging it as a individual scene, but in the context of the devs repeatedly saying it's a new PC every game and specifically telling us that Trespasser was meant to wrap up the Inquisitor's story. But for one thing I don't think it's wise to ignore those dev statements if you really want to understand what we're supposed to be seeing, and for another thing even if I do take the scene on its own merits, I don't think the last two lines strongly indicate that the Inquisitor plans to directly go toe-to-toe with Solas. I think they strongly indicate that they're going to look for someone else to do it. I keep seeing people say this. Is there a source? I'm not saying I don't believe it, I'd just like to see it for myself. i.imgur.com/sUpKwEj.pngIt's from the Dual Protagonists thread that got moved to DA4. There's also a video, but I didn't watch that.
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