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Post by Basquemercat117 on Nov 29, 2018 22:04:43 GMT
Wait...wasn't it a Bioware Dev crying about a Zelda game causing the poor reception of Andromeda??? But I agree, Zelda WW was a pretty damn fun game. At this point I'm just giving you a hard time to balance out the bias... This is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as BioWare create a poor quality game, they blame on another game to not the admit the fact that they fucked it up. i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment.
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Post by bshep on Nov 29, 2018 22:12:26 GMT
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Post by Kabraxal on Nov 30, 2018 6:32:14 GMT
This is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as BioWare create a poor quality game, they blame on another game to not the admit the fact that they fucked it up. i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. Strangely... I see the common criticisms of Andromeda and see it far worse in the overrated mess that was BotW. But he wasn’t wrong that the Nintendrones amassed at their alter for worship and it skewed the internet perception for about 6 months. Horizon was lucky enough to start high, take the hit then bounce back. MEA started at fan resentment, got hate trained, then had to claw and scratch its way to what is becoming a game that is slowly touted as underrated. I wear my AI gear around, like always, and lately it has been a lot of random “holy shit I liked that game!” and some long conversations with strangers. A job interview went 30 minutes over because my interviewer geeked out over my hoody. It was awesome... but awkward.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Nov 30, 2018 18:17:07 GMT
i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. Strangely... I see the common criticisms of Andromeda and see it far worse in the overrated mess that was BotW. But he wasn’t wrong that the Nintendrones amassed at their alter for worship and it skewed the internet perception for about 6 months. Horizon was lucky enough to start high, take the hit then bounce back. MEA started at fan resentment, got hate trained, then had to claw and scratch its way to what is becoming a game that is slowly touted as underrated. I wear my AI gear around, like always, and lately it has been a lot of random “holy shit I liked that game!” and some long conversations with strangers. A job interview went 30 minutes over because my interviewer geeked out over my hoody. It was awesome... but awkward. well thats pretty dope i have to admit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 18:41:40 GMT
i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. Strangely... I see the common criticisms of Andromeda and see it far worse in the overrated mess that was BotW. But he wasn’t wrong that the Nintendrones amassed at their alter for worship and it skewed the internet perception for about 6 months. Horizon was lucky enough to start high, take the hit then bounce back. MEA started at fan resentment, got hate trained, then had to claw and scratch its way to what is becoming a game that is slowly touted as underrated. I wear my AI gear around, like always, and lately it has been a lot of random “holy shit I liked that game!” and some long conversations with strangers. A job interview went 30 minutes over because my interviewer geeked out over my hoody. It was awesome... but awkward. Mileage varies but I see far more people disliking it than people saying "holy shit I like that game!" for sure...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 18:45:12 GMT
This is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as BioWare create a poor quality game, they blame on another game to not the admit the fact that they fucked it up. i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. I actually did hear what he had to say but have to ask what the real difference between a critical score of 72 vs 76 for a AAA title is to you? I dare to say that for the Devs anything under a 85 is lukeworm to just plain bad given the amount of time and money they put forth.
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Post by bshep on Nov 30, 2018 19:12:52 GMT
That is just your opinion with no actual base in what a "dev" considers a good score to their game.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2018 20:20:19 GMT
That is just your opinion with no actual base in what a "dev" considers a good score to their game. No Shit... You still didn't answer my question about the difference though.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 1, 2018 5:51:45 GMT
This is exactly what I'm talking about. As soon as BioWare create a poor quality game, they blame on another game to not the admit the fact that they fucked it up. i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. They deserve a low score for for that low quality, poorly written, buggy ass game. The reviewers are being dishonest when they gave them avg scores, and they know thus game is below average. BioWare need to get off their asses and start making high quality games.
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Post by linksocarina on Dec 1, 2018 16:49:44 GMT
i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. They deserve a low score for for that low quality, poorly written, buggy ass game. The reviewers are being dishonest when they gave them avg scores, and they know thus game is below average. BioWare need to get off their asses and start making high quality games. You know, any time someone brings in the conspiracy of dishonest reviewers, it says all I need to know about why their opinions to facts mean shit in the grand scheme of things. And folks wonder why fanboyism is so reviled...
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Dec 3, 2018 20:13:15 GMT
i mean if you actually look at what he said, he was saying that there are major faults that pushed the meta critic score to a score in the mid 70s. but he was saying that because of the competition it was being compared it too, that probably dropped in a few points. so with no competition it could have gotten a 76 but instead it was compared to some recently great games so it got a 72. thats what he ment. I actually did hear what he had to say but have to ask what the real difference between a critical score of 72 vs 76 for a AAA title is to you? I dare to say that for the Devs anything under a 85 is lukeworm to just plain bad given the amount of time and money they put forth. i agree that it four points of difference isnt worth that much in the grand scheme of things. but the dev did hint at it wasnt much of a factor in its final score.
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 7, 2018 9:01:18 GMT
All that needs to be said is that EA is putting in the money to move BioWare into a brand new larger location.
If you really think that's something that happens with a studio in trouble, you're downright delusional.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Dec 7, 2018 19:41:33 GMT
All that needs to be said is that EA is putting in the money to move BioWare into a brand new larger location. If you really think that's something that happens with a studio in trouble, you're downright delusional. wait they are doing that right meow? can you send me the source? this sound cool
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 7, 2018 19:47:25 GMT
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Dec 7, 2018 22:18:00 GMT
thank you. also this article came out after MEA so it just proves MEA didnt fail hard enough to bring the company down
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 7, 2018 23:30:56 GMT
thank you. also this article came out after MEA so it just proves MEA didnt fail hard enough to bring the company down But the people will remain distrustful of BioWare on the long run, and it causes massive backlash and skepticism of Anthem.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Dec 8, 2018 3:04:47 GMT
thank you. also this article came out after MEA so it just proves MEA didnt fail hard enough to bring the company down But the people will remain distrustful of BioWare on the long run, and it causes massive backlash and skepticism of Anthem. ok yes i can see that but to be fair, bioware knows that. they have known for awhile they were under the microscope. Even if MEA did super well, just the fact its a new IP makes people skeptical. But lets look at the times they have messed up: DAO they admitted they messed up, realized they needed to come back with a good game and canceled the DLC to make DA2, which is in the running for best in the series. ME3 they apologized for the ending, made a free dlc to help fix the ending. Then MEA happened and they tried to patch it up and then just recently did an update for it. So yeah they arent a perfect company but give them props for being about to take criticisms and try to make things better. Even if you look at how they have handled the marketing for anthem, they have been very transparent about the game between trailers, blog posts, 4 to 5 live streams of the game and its components and more. they know people are skeptical so they are showing there work to show the fan base what is going on. one key thing that people seem to forget is that even with the games that didnt do as awell or in some lights "failed or flooped" they all still made money. every game i have mentioned still made a profit. and in this industry if you can still make money, you can make more games to gain back trust. and there are people who are not going to trust bioware till the game is out. or jut flat out boy cot it any way when it does. but i feel people over estimate how long people hold a grudge in the gaming community now days. so many games come out and the industry moves so fast that sure people will remember the controversies, but they will more remember that there was a controversy and nothing past that. the emotion and hate thats there is going to be gone for the most part. i mean most people even on the forum here barely remember the controversy with DAO or just say its not their favorite of the series and leave it at that. even with mass effect people didnt like the endings of ME3 and MEA as a whole, but do you know what the majority of the forum and the fans as a series agree on? they want another mass effect game of some sort. and if you have that support and everything you have done has made money, bioware has no reason to not make another one.
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Post by quole on Feb 9, 2019 10:55:21 GMT
That's because CDPR has passion and ambition that made the Witcher series great games. If only BioWare has the same drive, then Mass Effect would never been mediocre and poorly written by incompetent developers and writers.
If by well-written you mean a PC that was so wooden and stiff he could have been swapped out for a log by CDPR and it would have been better design. The Witcher games are basically a poor man's version of Game of Thrones and not even good at that. Hell Skyrim has a pair of main quests that is far more engaging and with intriguing questions that are left up to the player to decide than "I'll pay you gold to kill this monster." which is all The Witcher 2 does and it's controls, combat, and gameplay was 100% trash. That game pretty much killed any hope that I had for The Witcher series as a whole and the piss poor marketing of Cyberpunk 2077 has killed any interest I might have had for CDPR.
They get by on extreme over-hype and releasing games with pretty graphics and not much else.
that's hilarious coming from someone with a shepard avatar btw. Shepard was easily one of the worst aspects of the ME trilogy. Bioware couldnt decide if they wanted an avatar character with no personality like Link, or an actual character with a set personality. Ignoring the fact that shepard is a complete idiot (which is proven by so many of the stupid things shepard says and does in the entire trilogy) his character makes no sense. You can literally be a saint one second and psychopath the next second. You can be the most evil person ever and then just completely do a 180 half way through the game and no one bats an eye (including shepard) and shepard doesnt act any differently than if he had been good the entire time. This is made even worse in ME3 when they start having these random stupid dreams about some random kid dying on Earth when your shepard could have been a sociopath that didnt even try to warn the batarians in Arrival. people talk a lot of shit about Ryder and he doesnt take anything seriously and jokes too much but at least Ryder has a personality that fluctuate every 5 seconds. Ryder is actually kind of a character unlike Shepard. Shepard doesnt change at all in the series except for when they tried to shoehorn in a personality in ME3 even if it contradicted the choices shepard made int he previous games.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 9, 2019 22:15:15 GMT
If by well-written you mean a PC that was so wooden and stiff he could have been swapped out for a log by CDPR and it would have been better design. The Witcher games are basically a poor man's version of Game of Thrones and not even good at that. Hell Skyrim has a pair of main quests that is far more engaging and with intriguing questions that are left up to the player to decide than "I'll pay you gold to kill this monster." which is all The Witcher 2 does and it's controls, combat, and gameplay was 100% trash. That game pretty much killed any hope that I had for The Witcher series as a whole and the piss poor marketing of Cyberpunk 2077 has killed any interest I might have had for CDPR.
They get by on extreme over-hype and releasing games with pretty graphics and not much else.
that's hilarious coming from someone with a shepard avatar btw. Shepard was easily one of the worst aspects of the ME trilogy. Bioware couldnt decide if they wanted an avatar character with no personality like Link, or an actual character with a set personality. Ignoring the fact that shepard is a complete idiot (which is proven by so many of the stupid things shepard says and does in the entire trilogy) his character makes no sense. You can literally be a saint one second and psychopath the next second. You can be the most evil person ever and then just completely do a 180 half way through the game and no one bats an eye (including shepard) and shepard doesnt act any differently than if he had been good the entire time. This is made even worse in ME3 when they start having these random stupid dreams about some random kid dying on Earth when your shepard could have been a sociopath that didnt even try to warn the batarians in Arrival. people talk a lot of shit about Ryder and he doesnt take anything seriously and jokes too much but at least Ryder has a personality that fluctuate every 5 seconds. Ryder is actually kind of a character unlike Shepard. Shepard doesnt change at all in the series except for when they tried to shoehorn in a personality in ME3 even if it contradicted the choices shepard made int he previous games. So to sum up you don’t understand roleplaying games.
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 11, 2019 7:07:40 GMT
If by well-written you mean a PC that was so wooden and stiff he could have been swapped out for a log by CDPR and it would have been better design. The Witcher games are basically a poor man's version of Game of Thrones and not even good at that. Hell Skyrim has a pair of main quests that is far more engaging and with intriguing questions that are left up to the player to decide than "I'll pay you gold to kill this monster." which is all The Witcher 2 does and it's controls, combat, and gameplay was 100% trash. That game pretty much killed any hope that I had for The Witcher series as a whole and the piss poor marketing of Cyberpunk 2077 has killed any interest I might have had for CDPR.
They get by on extreme over-hype and releasing games with pretty graphics and not much else.
that's hilarious coming from someone with a shepard avatar btw. Shepard was easily one of the worst aspects of the ME trilogy. Bioware couldnt decide if they wanted an avatar character with no personality like Link, or an actual character with a set personality. Ignoring the fact that shepard is a complete idiot (which is proven by so many of the stupid things shepard says and does in the entire trilogy) his character makes no sense. You can literally be a saint one second and psychopath the next second. You can be the most evil person ever and then just completely do a 180 half way through the game and no one bats an eye (including shepard) and shepard doesnt act any differently than if he had been good the entire time. This is made even worse in ME3 when they start having these random stupid dreams about some random kid dying on Earth when your shepard could have been a sociopath that didnt even try to warn the batarians in Arrival. people talk a lot of shit about Ryder and he doesnt take anything seriously and jokes too much but at least Ryder has a personality that fluctuate every 5 seconds. Ryder is actually kind of a character unlike Shepard. Shepard doesnt change at all in the series except for when they tried to shoehorn in a personality in ME3 even if it contradicted the choices shepard made int he previous games. A lot of what you’re criticizing is a core weakness of RPG’s to begin with. I can be a murderous psychopath to a greater degree than Shepard could hope to be in Dragon Age: Origins, yet still be lauded as a total hero and bribe my followers into loving me anyway with its gift system. However consistent or inconsistent the character’s persona is is really up to the player. The game can only do so much to account for the combination of choices you make.
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Post by quole on Feb 11, 2019 10:09:14 GMT
that's hilarious coming from someone with a shepard avatar btw. Shepard was easily one of the worst aspects of the ME trilogy. Bioware couldnt decide if they wanted an avatar character with no personality like Link, or an actual character with a set personality. Ignoring the fact that shepard is a complete idiot (which is proven by so many of the stupid things shepard says and does in the entire trilogy) his character makes no sense. You can literally be a saint one second and psychopath the next second. You can be the most evil person ever and then just completely do a 180 half way through the game and no one bats an eye (including shepard) and shepard doesnt act any differently than if he had been good the entire time. This is made even worse in ME3 when they start having these random stupid dreams about some random kid dying on Earth when your shepard could have been a sociopath that didnt even try to warn the batarians in Arrival. people talk a lot of shit about Ryder and he doesnt take anything seriously and jokes too much but at least Ryder has a personality that fluctuate every 5 seconds. Ryder is actually kind of a character unlike Shepard. Shepard doesnt change at all in the series except for when they tried to shoehorn in a personality in ME3 even if it contradicted the choices shepard made int he previous games. So to sum up you don’t understand roleplaying games. lol don't understand roleplaying games. That's rich. It is amazing to me what you fanboys will come up with to justify Bioware incompetence. Want proof that a protagonist can be done correctly in an RPG? Look at some of Bioware's old games. Not only can it be done but BIOWARE has proven that it can be done. Kotor, kotor 2 (even if obsidian made that), DA:O, baldur's gate, etc. Not to say that those characters are necessarily amazing but theya re done properly. Shepard is not. Mass Effect was an aborted hybrid of 2 different ways of creating a protagonist in a story-based franchise. They clearly had two different concepts for what they wanted shepard to be and couldnt decide on which. That's why in ME3 shepard has this weirdly forced personality shoved in to the players' faces that contradicts his 'character' in the previous games. How can you possibly justify this when I literally gave examples, even from bioware itself that a protagonist can be done properly in a game where you make your own choices? Ah, but because it's Mass Effect everything in it well done, right? that's hilarious coming from someone with a shepard avatar btw. Shepard was easily one of the worst aspects of the ME trilogy. Bioware couldnt decide if they wanted an avatar character with no personality like Link, or an actual character with a set personality. Ignoring the fact that shepard is a complete idiot (which is proven by so many of the stupid things shepard says and does in the entire trilogy) his character makes no sense. You can literally be a saint one second and psychopath the next second. You can be the most evil person ever and then just completely do a 180 half way through the game and no one bats an eye (including shepard) and shepard doesnt act any differently than if he had been good the entire time. This is made even worse in ME3 when they start having these random stupid dreams about some random kid dying on Earth when your shepard could have been a sociopath that didnt even try to warn the batarians in Arrival. people talk a lot of shit about Ryder and he doesnt take anything seriously and jokes too much but at least Ryder has a personality that fluctuate every 5 seconds. Ryder is actually kind of a character unlike Shepard. Shepard doesnt change at all in the series except for when they tried to shoehorn in a personality in ME3 even if it contradicted the choices shepard made int he previous games. A lot of what you’re criticizing is a core weakness of RPG’s to begin with. I can be a murderous psychopath to a greater degree than Shepard could hope to be in Dragon Age: Origins, yet still be lauded as a total hero and bribe my followers into loving me anyway with its gift system. However consistent or inconsistent the character’s persona is is really up to the player. The game can only do so much to account for the combination of choices you make. Wrong. It comes from Bioware having 2 different visions of what Shepard should be and trying to hybridize them. And yes DA:O had it's problems too in this regard but at least they the Grey Warden the player's character with the players' own ability to create a personality. Unlike ME3 where they tried to do both and we end up with a character that's schizophrenic and makes no sense. In DA:O the game never tries to create a personality for you. And don't tell me it can't be done. Having your character devleop and change over the course of the game with your choices was literally done to an extent in the DA sequels where the game would auto fill dialogue with what you were most likely to pick judging from your past choices. In the Witcher, you can completely change the plot of the game by the choices you make as the protagonist and while you can choose moral options int he story, Geralt still has a set personality. You may not like it but at least he has one. Same goes for Ryder in MEA, a protagonist that is FAR superior to Shepard in terms of consistency. Shepard is the perfect example of how not to write a protagonist in a series like this. He's a bumbling, passive protagonist that mindlessly does what he's told, is a COMPLETE IDIOT as proven by all the utterly stupid things he says and does throughout the trilogy, has no set personality for 2 games and then suddenly is given one at the end of the trilogy even if it contradicts the one the player invented in the previous games. On top of this, there are no choices that change shepard in any of the games. The player can make up whatever personality they want for shepard but none of it has anything to do with the story integration. You could be the most vile person ever or the nicest person ever and the story does not change, nor do most of your available options. for instance, You could a complete sociopath that has no value for life in yet every romance option will still hit on you and treat you like a great person. Almost NONE of the choices you can make are impacted by how you acted before (personality wise). In other words, you can have 2 playthroughs that are almost identical int he missions you do, the people you recruit, the romances you have, the potential ending you get, etc. despite playing one completely renegade and the other completely paragon. Imagine for a second if being a complete renegade changed the dialogue options you got throughout the games (rather than a few sparse instances where being hardcore paragon would have achieved more or less the same exact outcome). Imagine if some people would not romance or even follow you depending on how you acted towards not only them but others as well. Imagine if you didn't have access to all the same shit depending on how you acted earlier in the game. Imagine if future missions were completely different depending on your past choices. Instead Shepard stays the same through all 3 games regardless of your choices in any of the games. You can always make up your own background and personality but that never effects the game. It's just fanfiction. Compare this to Cyberpunk where the choices YOU make (not someone constantly telling you exactly what to do and you mindlessly doing it like Shepard and TIM for instance) change how the story plays out, instead of being the exact same mission regardless of how you played, only for you to have a pointless moral choice at the end that has no impact on the plot (kinda like every moral decision you ever made in all 4 ME games). In a world that changes depending on your actions, unlike ME where you always the same missions available and they are all essentially identical besides a few completely redundant changes (like having admiral Xen be with you instead of Tali if she died in ME2). In a world whos people change depending on your actions, unlike ME where you can play through the series as a renegade or paragon and have almost exactly the same experience , with access to the same exact missions and have them play out almost identically. They could have integrated this in to the game to have a truly immersive RPG where the protagonist grows, but instead made a blank slate that they then tried to give a set personality in the final act of the trilogy. What a fucking joke lol. And do you want me to get in to everything else that sucks about Shepard? Like how he's a complete idiot that never notices obvious things, contradicts himself, never asks or does obvious things that would be easy solutions to problems, the fact that he's completely static and doesnt change, the fact that he mindlessly follows everything that everyone else tells him to do like going along with Cerberus in ME2 even if you chose the backstory where his was team was slaughtered because of cerberus and even after TIM betrays you in ME2 on the collector ship, etc. He's a bumbling, passive, static brick that also has the intellect of a brick, that suddenly becomes bipolar in ME3 (if he wasnt already) and does almost nothing to progress the story and instead goes along with it. It's the worst kind of protagonist in almost any narrative - a protagonist that does not in any way dictate the flow of the story, they simply are along for the ride. There are FEW exceptions to this like when it's shepard that decides to attack cerberus in ME3.... but again this happens regardless of the your past choices, your made up personality for him, etc. You always decide to attack cerberus and it always plays out the same way. Mass Effect is basically just a contained story that you can sometimes change the font of but nothing else. In yet so many fanboys give it so much praise for being an amazing story when in reality it's a poorly thought out story that contradicts itself, forgets what the plot is half way through, then rushes through everything in the final act, all with a main character that could give Shale some lessons on being a rock golem. Oh wait, Shale actually had a personality and was actually an interesting chracter. A DLC character from DAO is leagues better than the protagonist of the ME trilogy. LOL.
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ahglock
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Feb 11, 2019 15:45:18 GMT
Yes. You do not understand roleplaying games. Why, because Shepard isn’t fluctuating madly between mean and nice. You are. You are the ones making those decisions. Don’t want your Shepard to swing that much. Hey I got an idea. Don’t pick options like that. I have never had a Shepard that was a saint one moment and a psychopath the next. And it’s all because I role-played my character and made the decisions appropriate to him. And I wasn’t playing pure renegade or paragon either I’m usually 2/3 one 1/3 the other. You were given roleplay freedom you just failed at using it. Guess what in role playing games you should role play your character. What’s next in a shooter are they going to ask you to aim.
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KaiserShep
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Post by KaiserShep on Feb 11, 2019 17:12:16 GMT
A lot of what you’re criticizing is a core weakness of RPG’s to begin with. I can be a murderous psychopath to a greater degree than Shepard could hope to be in Dragon Age: Origins, yet still be lauded as a total hero and bribe my followers into loving me anyway with its gift system. However consistent or inconsistent the character’s persona is is really up to the player. The game can only do so much to account for the combination of choices you make. Wrong. It comes from Bioware having 2 different visions of what Shepard should be and trying to hybridize them. And yes DA:O had it's problems too in this regard but at least they the Grey Warden the player's character with the players' own ability to create a personality. Unlike ME3 where they tried to do both and we end up with a character that's schizophrenic and makes no sense. In DA:O the game never tries to create a personality for you. And don't tell me it can't be done. Having your character devleop and change over the course of the game with your choices was literally done to an extent in the DA sequels where the game would auto fill dialogue with what you were most likely to pick judging from your past choices. In the Witcher, you can completely change the plot of the game by the choices you make as the protagonist and while you can choose moral options int he story, Geralt still has a set personality. You may not like it but at least he has one. Same goes for Ryder in MEA, a protagonist that is FAR superior to Shepard in terms of consistency. Shepard is the perfect example of how not to write a protagonist in a series like this. He's a bumbling, passive protagonist that mindlessly does what he's told, is a COMPLETE IDIOT as proven by all the utterly stupid things he says and does throughout the trilogy, has no set personality for 2 games and then suddenly is given one at the end of the trilogy even if it contradicts the one the player invented in the previous games. On top of this, there are no choices that change shepard in any of the games. The player can make up whatever personality they want for shepard but none of it has anything to do with the story integration. You could be the most vile person ever or the nicest person ever and the story does not change, nor do most of your available options. for instance, You could a complete sociopath that has no value for life in yet every romance option will still hit on you and treat you like a great person. Almost NONE of the choices you can make are impacted by how you acted before (personality wise). In other words, you can have 2 playthroughs that are almost identical int he missions you do, the people you recruit, the romances you have, the potential ending you get, etc. despite playing one completely renegade and the other completely paragon. Imagine for a second if being a complete renegade changed the dialogue options you got throughout the games (rather than a few sparse instances where being hardcore paragon would have achieved more or less the same exact outcome). Imagine if some people would not romance or even follow you depending on how you acted towards not only them but others as well. Imagine if you didn't have access to all the same shit depending on how you acted earlier in the game. Imagine if future missions were completely different depending on your past choices. Instead Shepard stays the same through all 3 games regardless of your choices in any of the games. You can always make up your own background and personality but that never effects the game. It's just fanfiction. Compare this to Cyberpunk where the choices YOU make (not someone constantly telling you exactly what to do and you mindlessly doing it like Shepard and TIM for instance) change how the story plays out, instead of being the exact same mission regardless of how you played, only for you to have a pointless moral choice at the end that has no impact on the plot (kinda like every moral decision you ever made in all 4 ME games). In a world that changes depending on your actions, unlike ME where you always the same missions available and they are all essentially identical besides a few completely redundant changes (like having admiral Xen be with you instead of Tali if she died in ME2). In a world whos people change depending on your actions, unlike ME where you can play through the series as a renegade or paragon and have almost exactly the same experience , with access to the same exact missions and have them play out almost identically. They could have integrated this in to the game to have a truly immersive RPG where the protagonist grows, but instead made a blank slate that they then tried to give a set personality in the final act of the trilogy. What a fucking joke lol. And do you want me to get in to everything else that sucks about Shepard? Like how he's a complete idiot that never notices obvious things, contradicts himself, never asks or does obvious things that would be easy solutions to problems, the fact that he's completely static and doesnt change, the fact that he mindlessly follows everything that everyone else tells him to do like going along with Cerberus in ME2 even if you chose the backstory where his was team was slaughtered because of cerberus and even after TIM betrays you in ME2 on the collector ship, etc. He's a bumbling, passive, static brick that also has the intellect of a brick, that suddenly becomes bipolar in ME3 (if he wasnt already) and does almost nothing to progress the story and instead goes along with it. It's the worst kind of protagonist in almost any narrative - a protagonist that does not in any way dictate the flow of the story, they simply are along for the ride. There are FEW exceptions to this like when it's shepard that decides to attack cerberus in ME3.... but again this happens regardless of the your past choices, your made up personality for him, etc. You always decide to attack cerberus and it always plays out the same way. Mass Effect is basically just a contained story that you can sometimes change the font of but nothing else. In yet so many fanboys give it so much praise for being an amazing story when in reality it's a poorly thought out story that contradicts itself, forgets what the plot is half way through, then rushes through everything in the final act, all with a main character that could give Shale some lessons on being a rock golem. Oh wait, Shale actually had a personality and was actually an interesting chracter. A DLC character from DAO is leagues better than the protagonist of the ME trilogy. LOL. My point is that as per the medium, there are limits to what the game can account for. Your basic response to that is "wrong", but how is that? I already gave an example with Origins. I'd argue that the Warden is largely a blank slate that only gives bits and pieces of what might be considered a personality, with the rest essentially filled in by our own imagination, but I can flip-flop my character's moral center repeatedly throughout the game, or I can commit to a certain type of character to maintain some kind of continuity. Perhaps one of the most egregious errors in continuity regarding Shepard's character is probably that welcome scene in Lair of the Shadow Broker, where Shepard will hug Liara no matter how you treated her in ME1. My Shepard romanced her so it went further than that, but a Shepard that did nothing but speak harshly toward her shouldn't be giving her a hug. I doubt the writers even remembered you could say a lot of the stuff you can in ME1, as there were tons of throwaway lines that were needlessly harsh for amusement. There's certainly an argument for the level of feels over the little boy from the prologue, but thankfully other than the stupid dreams, you can actively avoid the subject in dialogue. Too bad we can't control the whole subconscious angle the game throws at us. I'll never claim that it was even remotely perfect, but I would never say that it approached "schizophrenic" either.
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Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 12, 2019 0:25:08 GMT
Yes. You do not understand roleplaying games. Why, because Shepard isn’t fluctuating madly between mean and nice. You are. You are the ones making those decisions. Don’t want your Shepard to swing that much. Hey I got an idea. Don’t pick options like that. I have never had a Shepard that was a saint one moment and a psychopath the next. And it’s all because I role-played my character and made the decisions appropriate to him. And I wasn’t playing pure renegade or paragon either I’m usually 2/3 one 1/3 the other. You were given roleplay freedom you just failed at using it. Guess what in role playing games you should role play your character. What’s next in a shooter are they going to ask you to aim. Of course, if you don't let Shepard swing wildly, then many of the choices in the game aren't choices by the time you get to them. That's got more to do with the decreasing number of neutral options, though. ME:A's decisions are structured better, since you can't outsource your RP to the P/R meter.
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ahglock
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ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Feb 12, 2019 2:12:25 GMT
Yes. You do not understand roleplaying games. Why, because Shepard isn’t fluctuating madly between mean and nice. You are. You are the ones making those decisions. Don’t want your Shepard to swing that much. Hey I got an idea. Don’t pick options like that. I have never had a Shepard that was a saint one moment and a psychopath the next. And it’s all because I role-played my character and made the decisions appropriate to him. And I wasn’t playing pure renegade or paragon either I’m usually 2/3 one 1/3 the other. You were given roleplay freedom you just failed at using it. Guess what in role playing games you should role play your character. What’s next in a shooter are they going to ask you to aim. Of course, if you don't let Shepard swing wildly, then many of the choices in the game aren't choices by the time you get to them. That's got more to do with the decreasing number of neutral options, though. ME:A's decisions are structured better, since you can't outsource your RP to the P/R meter. Oh there are plenty of flaws with the ME trilogy role playing, the Liara hug people reference, less choice by ME3, in earlier games needing a certain paragon or renegade point to say anything motivating extremes, and yeah MEA did some things better. But having a broad set of choices between paragon and renegade isn't one of the flaws. It gave Shepard a range allowing the player more control over who their Shepard would be.
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