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Post by mtheillusive on Aug 29, 2018 18:03:49 GMT
Like many others I was not the happiest camper with Andromeda. Its an ok Mass Effect game in comparison to the trilogy, but it clearly pales in comparison. Just like a large majority of fans I questioned if Mass Effect could ever make a comeback and reach the awesomeness of the past. And after much thought, not only can it do it, IT CAN DO IT EASILY, for the potential plot points for future games are nothing short of amazing.
We know the big three plot points that most have talked about that could be either DLC or in a sequel:
1)Status of the Quarian Ark
2) Who and where is the Benefactor (and along with that who killed Jien Garson)
3) When and how will the Kett Empire return and attack
However, there's a HUGE plot point that I have rarely seen talked about by anyone: What will e the future of the Initiative, Humans, and Andromeda in general now that Humans live and have access to Meridian??
Think about it! In the backstory to the previous trilogy, the various races of the Milky Way learned to use the technology left by the Protheans (coughReaperscough) in very short amount of time. From weapons to ships to armor and shields to omnitools to medigel to toothbrushes, nothing short of actually building a Mass Effect Relay was too far fetched for the inhabitants of the Galaxy.
Now with Andromeda, we have technology that can not only terraform planets, but CREATE LIFE. And the Initiative, humans in particular, have access to both Meridian AND The Reant City Khi Tasira (where countless unfinished Anagarans prototypes were found). This alone opens up MASSIVE STORY POTENTIAL, for the potential conflicts are endless once people figure out how to use the technology left by the Jardaan. For example:
* If the Krogan want to repopulate their race by creating new Krogan without the Genophage, will they be allowed to do so (if they joined back with the Initiative) or will they go to war to do so? Do they have access to the Remnant Drive Core, and if so, or if not, what will happen? How will the other races react to the Krogan, in particular the Salarians?
* Humans live on Meridan. Will Project Zero (as hinted at that terminal at the end of the game) come to fruition? Will humans have the first immediate access to this new technology, and what will they do with it? What happened to the sibling (the only other person already able to use Remnant tech besides yourself), will they be the first Subject Zero? Will humans become the unintentional big bads of the Galaxy? Potentially Cerberus on a whole different scale?
* The sheer potential of the technology can lead to a race to control it...will there be a civil war? If Mass Effect 3 was about uniting the galaxy, Andromeda 2 could be the opposite where all hell breaks loose.
Combined with other plot points such as the whole Benefactor thing, as well as SAM (I question as to whether or not the is Reaper code in it similar to EDI), there are a great numbr of ways to take the series into the future. Also, what other alien species are out there in Andromeda? How will the fit in all this?
If the next game has dramatically improved graphics (think of the difference between ME1 and 2), improved gameplay that's greatly expanded upon, and a dramatic and enticing new story that greatly expands on what ME Andromeda 1 created, if Bioware is given the right amount of time and resources your looking at a game (or 2 or 3) that could easily rival if not even surpass the original trilogy.
Now will the protagonist be Ryder, the sibling, or someone new? Who knows, but hopefully a choice actually given to the player to potentially be any of those options or more, with reasons reflected in the intro/first mission of the game. It can be done (instead of classes, it could be characters).
I still have faith in Bioware. Lets move on to ME5/Andromeda 2!!!
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Post by Phantom on Aug 29, 2018 18:12:58 GMT
I do acknowledge that Andromeda has plenty of potential and true Bioware shouldn't give on that regard. I do think that EA should give Bioware plenty of money to have both a Milk Way Mass Effect games and Andromeda Mass Effect games and require of them to communication between them and having a more consistent storyline for both.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 29, 2018 18:33:58 GMT
I do acknowledge that Andromeda has plenty of potential and true Bioware shouldn't give on that regard. I do think that EA should give Bioware plenty of money to have both a Milk Way Mass Effect games and Andromeda Mass Effect games and require of them to communication between them and having a more consistent storyline for both. What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, should EA then force them to make one because people claim they rather play a game based there?
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Post by Phantom on Aug 29, 2018 18:53:59 GMT
I do acknowledge that Andromeda has plenty of potential and true Bioware shouldn't give on that regard. I do think that EA should give Bioware plenty of money to have both a Milk Way Mass Effect games and Andromeda Mass Effect games and require of them to communication between them and having a more consistent storyline for both. What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, should EA then force them to make one because people claim they rather play a game based there? Well it will ulimately their choice in their game development cycle. Also Bioware should listen to their fans; Bioware also shouldn't listen to their fans as well.
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Post by themikefest on Aug 29, 2018 19:08:44 GMT
What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, I would agree if all the people that work on the game have a say and not just the ones who will be in charge.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 3:56:12 GMT
I do acknowledge that Andromeda has plenty of potential and true Bioware shouldn't give on that regard. I do think that EA should give Bioware plenty of money to have both a Milk Way Mass Effect games and Andromeda Mass Effect games and require of them to communication between them and having a more consistent storyline for both. What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, should EA then force them to make one because people claim they rather play a game based there? EA doesn't force Bioware to do anything. Secondly, we as consumers don't really have much of a say in how their games are made (whether it takes place in the Milky Way or Andromeda). All we can choose is whether their products are worth the money or not.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 30, 2018 12:55:58 GMT
What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, should EA then force them to make one because people claim they rather play a game based there? EA doesn't force Bioware to do anything. Secondly, we as consumers don't really have much of a say in how their games are made (whether it takes place in the Milky Way or Andromeda). All we can choose is whether their products are worth the money or not. Huh? They coerce them? They convince them? Uh, sure.
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Post by dmc1001 on Aug 30, 2018 13:13:54 GMT
I do acknowledge that Andromeda has plenty of potential and true Bioware shouldn't give on that regard. I do think that EA should give Bioware plenty of money to have both a Milk Way Mass Effect games and Andromeda Mass Effect games and require of them to communication between them and having a more consistent storyline for both. That seems unlikely. They'll have to choose one or the other.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 15:19:04 GMT
EA doesn't force Bioware to do anything. Secondly, we as consumers don't really have much of a say in how their games are made (whether it takes place in the Milky Way or Andromeda). All we can choose is whether their products are worth the money or not. Huh? They coerce them? They convince them? Uh, sure. They don't put a gun to anyone's head, that's for sure.
Not sure where people suddenly compare them (or any other parent company) to some kind of authoritative force like Kim Jong Un.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 30, 2018 15:38:07 GMT
Was going to argue, figured what's the point?
Believe as you wish.
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Post by griffith82 on Aug 30, 2018 22:20:37 GMT
Was going to argue, figured what's the point? Believe as you wish. This is what you turn every thread into.
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Post by cloud9 on Aug 30, 2018 22:36:38 GMT
What if its BioWare that doesn't want to make a game in the Milky Way, should EA then force them to make one because people claim they rather play a game based there? Well it will ulimately their choice in their game development cycle. Also Bioware should listen to their fans; Bioware also shouldn't listen to their fans as well. They never listened to anyone as far as addressing flaws to the plot, plot holes, inconsistent storytelling, and the ending most of all.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Aug 30, 2018 23:11:47 GMT
Was going to argue, figured what's the point? Believe as you wish. This is what you turn every thread into. Hello Pot. Kettle here, doing fine.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 3:30:36 GMT
Huh? They coerce them? They convince them? Uh, sure. They don't put a gun to anyone's head, that's for sure.
Not sure where people suddenly compare them (or any other parent company) to some kind of authoritative force like Kim Jong Un.
When people make comments about how "EA forced all their studios to use Frostbite" or "EA made them work on Anthem instead of a real BioWare game". When there is no choice allowed on BioWare's part is when people make it sound like you describe. Now I could see EA going to the heads of BioWare with Anthem and saying here is a base idea for what we want you to put your spin on, but still leaving it up to them if they think they can do it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 3:41:05 GMT
I recall Yanick Roy touting how nice of an engine Frostbite was to work with. No comment on Anthem, but I don't think anyone put a gun to their heads to purely focus on Anthem. The Andromeda team, from what I've read didn't have a plan, and started over several times. It wasn't until Mac Walters came aboard, that they actually got some direction, instead of spinning, because they did scrap it a few times. So if you spend 3 1/2 years working and restarting a game and only the last 18 months show some real progress, seems like they were wasting money, and weren't going to spend much more resources on it. So those resources went to other things. If they had a plan from the start, it would have turned out better, but all sources I've read is that there was no concrete plan in place, or someone giving the project a sense of direction. Still a decent game though. Better than some I've played (Duke Nukem Forever *cough*).
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 6:19:46 GMT
I recall Yanick Roy touting how nice of an engine Frostbite was to work with. No comment on Anthem, but I don't think anyone put a gun to their heads to purely focus on Anthem. The Andromeda team, from what I've read didn't have a plan, and started over several times. It wasn't until Mac Walters came aboard, that they actually got some direction, instead of spinning, because they did scrap it a few times. So if you spend 3 1/2 years working and restarting a game and only the last 18 months show some real progress, seems like they were wasting money, and weren't going to spend much more resources on it. So those resources went to other things. If they had a plan from the start, it would have turned out better, but all sources I've read is that there was no concrete plan in place, or someone giving the project a sense of direction. Still a decent game though. Better than some I've played (Duke Nukem Forever *cough*). I was just giving examples of what I have seen in comments on the internet, not that I believe them. For I have seen many times people talking about how Frostbite isn't a good engine for RPGs and then start to talk about how it was forced on BioWare. In reality it was like any other new engine BioWare has used going all the way back when they had to go create systems in those engines for their games to work on. Which in a recent comment from somewhere seems to be better. At least in my opinion people have taken one article from Kotaku and taken information from it and used segments to fit into their personal narrative with nothing else for us to really look as a counterpoint. I don't believe they scrapped everything and started over, for things like animations or concepts of ships and characters would more then likely carry forward in some way even if its being altered to fit. Its just like when content is dumped because they need to cut content to make the release window of any other game. Overall I think Andromeda was an average game and in fact its not my least favorite BioWare game, Jade Empire gets that award for the second half of that game where it feels like they ran completely out of time and used what they had to piecemeal the ending together.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 15:57:25 GMT
I guess no one will ever know what really went on there unless they directly worked on the game. So everything else is just speculation.
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 31, 2018 22:23:11 GMT
I guess no one will ever know what really went on there unless they directly worked on the game. So everything else is just speculation. I am not even sure all the people that worked on the game would know everything that went on there. I think its just a handful of people at the upper levels of management that had the entire "big picture" of the development that knows everything. Its why I don't think the Kotaku article is 100% accurate to the events for I would guess it was people speaking who didn't have a full view of everything that was going on outside of office gossip.
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Post by Vanishing Point on Aug 31, 2018 23:48:13 GMT
The notion that the Frostbite engine was forced on Bioware sounds harsh, but it's common sense. Frostbite is EA-exclusive and they understandably wanted the new ME entry to stay in-house for its development cycle. If the Montreal studio wanted to stay on UE3/UE4 for Andromeda, they would have had to pay licensing fees to Epic. Why would a EA-subsidized studio outsource its game engine when it theoretically had access to a perfectly capable one that was proven (e.g. Inquisition) to be malleable to the demands of a RPG?
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Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 2:54:41 GMT
I recall Yanick Roy touting how nice of an engine Frostbite was to work with. No comment on Anthem, but I don't think anyone put a gun to their heads to purely focus on Anthem. The Andromeda team, from what I've read didn't have a plan, and started over several times. It wasn't until Mac Walters came aboard, that they actually got some direction, instead of spinning, because they did scrap it a few times. So if you spend 3 1/2 years working and restarting a game and only the last 18 months show some real progress, seems like they were wasting money, and weren't going to spend much more resources on it. So those resources went to other things. If they had a plan from the start, it would have turned out better, but all sources I've read is that there was no concrete plan in place, or someone giving the project a sense of direction. Still a decent game though. Better than some I've played (Duke Nukem Forever *cough*). Duke Nukem Forever was fun for what it was. I don't know how anyone expected anything different.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 4:41:22 GMT
Duke Nukem Forever was fun for what it was. I don't know how anyone expected anything different. <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 7.300000000000011px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_28709295" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="7.300000000000011"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 7.3px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_12150999" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="7.300000000000011"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 7.3px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 76px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_6940968" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="7.300000000000011"></iframe> <iframe style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 7.3px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 76px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_20720604" scrolling="no" width="23.960000000000036" height="7.300000000000011"></iframe> Could have been less pornographic, IMO. It was what turned me off in some parts, that made the game otherwise okay.
The original DN3D game didn't have quite the explicit extreme sexual and obscene content as DNF had.
Discussion for another thread.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 1, 2018 4:53:14 GMT
The notion that the Frostbite engine was forced on Bioware sounds harsh, but it's common sense. Frostbite is EA-exclusive and they understandably wanted the new ME entry to stay in-house for its development cycle. If the Montreal studio wanted to stay on UE3/UE4 for Andromeda, they would have had to pay licensing fees to Epic. Why would a EA-subsidized studio outsource its game engine when it theoretically had access to a perfectly capable one that was proven (e.g. Inquisition) to be malleable to the demands of a RPG? The catch is Aaryn Flynn has said the opposite about using Frostbite and it was completely BioWare's idea. Now of course after that statement you saw a lot of people actively trying to discredit it, but that doesn't surprise me anymore since people are looking for a reason to be upset for I was just reading about "puddlegate".
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Post by Vanishing Point on Sept 1, 2018 5:43:15 GMT
The notion that the Frostbite engine was forced on Bioware sounds harsh, but it's common sense. Frostbite is EA-exclusive and they understandably wanted the new ME entry to stay in-house for its development cycle. If the Montreal studio wanted to stay on UE3/UE4 for Andromeda, they would have had to pay licensing fees to Epic. Why would a EA-subsidized studio outsource its game engine when it theoretically had access to a perfectly capable one that was proven (e.g. Inquisition) to be malleable to the demands of a RPG? The catch is Aaryn Flynn has said the opposite about using Frostbite and it was completely BioWare's idea. Now of course after that statement you saw a lot of people actively trying to discredit it, but that doesn't surprise me anymore since people are looking for a reason to be upset for I was just reading about "puddlegate". To my knowledge Flynn never contradicts this claim, which is a misnomer anyway. It's not like Bioware was married to UE3: it had its own share of problems and was superseded by UE4 in 2014 anyway. In his post-retirement interview he credits EA's Frostbite team for adapting the engine to cover such a diverse roster of games and commends them for being hands-on and informative when Bioware was transitioning from their old engine. But the fact it is so ubiquitous under EA's penumbra of titles is telling. EA wants the Frostbite engine to be a mandatory feature of all their AAA titles for practical reasons, and Andromeda presented Bioware with a clean slate to do so. Concerning internal debates within the studio, I suppose Inquisition was taken as proof-of-concept that the new Mass Effect game would work on Frostbite too.
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Post by Sanunes on Sept 1, 2018 6:14:24 GMT
The catch is Aaryn Flynn has said the opposite about using Frostbite and it was completely BioWare's idea. Now of course after that statement you saw a lot of people actively trying to discredit it, but that doesn't surprise me anymore since people are looking for a reason to be upset for I was just reading about "puddlegate". To my knowledge Flynn never contradicts this claim, which is a misnomer anyway. It's not like Bioware was married to UE3: it had its own share of problems and was superseded by UE4 in 2014 anyway. In his post-retirement interview he credits EA's Frostbite team for adapting the engine to cover such a diverse roster of games and commends them for being hands-on and informative when Bioware was transitioning from their old engine. But the fact it is so ubiquitous under EA's penumbra of titles is telling. EA wants the Frostbite engine to be a mandatory feature of all their AAA titles for practical reasons, and Andromeda presented Bioware with a clean slate to do so. Concerning internal debates within the studio, I suppose Inquisition was taken as proof-of-concept that the new Mass Effect game would work on Frostbite too. Report on Aaryn Flynn's comments at GCD
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Vanishing Point
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins
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Post by Vanishing Point on Sept 1, 2018 6:47:31 GMT
This sounds like a very diplomatic way of saying yes. I'm suspicious because the way he presents it seems utterly implausible. Starting a new engine from scratch would have been out of the question. It takes a damn long time to create one, let alone test it out and figure out features should come with the basic packages and it must be constantly updated unless you want to end up like Bethesda. What resources could Bioware possibly draw upon to pull this off while simultaneously working on new games? They are not a big studio, certainly not big enough to juggle such huge projects without a severe lack of focus. It would have postponed any release date for Andromeda indefinitely, let alone new Dragon Age games. Mind you, this fateful decision presented itself as Bioware wrapped up the ME trilogy. So it's not like they had a cornucopia of titles that could paper over this transition to a custom-made engine. Realistically it was either UE4 or Frostbite. UE3 was already on the way out: it was unveiled at GDC 2012 and someone like Flynn would've known UE4 was being finished up during the tail-end of ME3's development. The original ME was designed on UE3 barely a few months after that was revealed in 2004, so I doubt Bioware would've stuck with an aging engine for Andromeda with a superior option on the horizon. As mentioned before, Unreal Engine 4 meant licensing fees which would seem counterproductive considering Frostbite already exists. This wasn't an option in the past as Mass Effect 1 was their foray into the nascent "action RPG" genre, so they chose the sturdiness of a licensed engine over skipping the middle man entirely. It also meant Bioware would loses access to support since everyone else would also be starting from scratch with UE4. Bioware would be left as the odd man out if they rejected it as all of EA's FPS and sports games were hopping on the Frostbite 3.0 train at that time. Hence Flynn's emphasis on "communities".
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