Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers)

dmc1001
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Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers) Sept 1, 2018 7:18:55 GMT opuspace and Unicephalon 40-D like this

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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2018 7:18:55 GMT

As a person who likes to use mods, I found those for MEA and DAI were much more difficult to use than the "drop this folder into this other folder" or a simple .exe to install compared to UE. I really love mods and the harder it is for me to use them the less I'll like it. Mods overcome flaws in gaming, or "correct" things people found problematic. New hairstyles, clothing, etc.

I know it's kind of selfish, and irrelevant to console gamers, but that's how I feel. (Though, IIRC, I could use mods for Oblivion on Xbox 360. Maybe they were Bethesda-only mods. I don't remember.)

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Sanunes
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Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers) Sept 1, 2018 12:16:48 GMT Unicephalon 40-D likes this

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Post by Sanunes on Sept 1, 2018 12:16:48 GMT

Sept 1, 2018 6:47:31 GMT Vanishing Point said:

Sept 1, 2018 6:14:24 GMT Sanunes said:

Report on Aaryn Flynn's comments at GCD

This sounds like a very diplomatic way of saying yes. I'm suspicious because the way he presents it seems utterly implausible.

Starting a new engine from scratch would have been out of the question. It takes a damn long time to create one, let alone test it out and figure out features should come with the basic packages and it must be constantly updated unless you want to end up like Bethesda. What resources could Bioware possibly draw upon to pull this off while simultaneously working on new games? They are not a big studio, certainly not big enough to juggle such huge projects without a severe lack of focus. It would have postponed any release date for Andromeda indefinitely, let alone new Dragon Age games. Mind you, this fateful decision presented itself as Bioware wrapped up the ME trilogy. So it's not like they had a cornucopia of titles that could paper over this transition to a custom-made engine.

Realistically it was either UE4 or Frostbite. UE3 was already on the way out: it was unveiled at GDC 2012 and someone like Flynn would've known UE4 was being finished up during the tail-end of ME3's development. The original ME was designed on UE3 barely a few months after that was revealed in 2004, so I doubt Bioware would've stuck with an aging engine for Andromeda with a superior option on the horizon. As mentioned before, Unreal Engine 4 meant licensing fees which would seem counterproductive considering Frostbite already exists. This wasn't an option in the past as Mass Effect 1 was their foray into the nascent "action RPG" genre, so they chose the sturdiness of a licensed engine over skipping the middle man entirely. It also meant Bioware would loses access to support since everyone else would also be starting from scratch with UE4. Bioware would be left as the odd man out if they rejected it as all of EA's FPS and sports games were hopping on the Frostbite 3.0 train at that time. Hence Flynn's emphasis on "communities".

I don't know the man well enough to analyze the words he says, but I know several programmers and communities is a common word for them.

Just because he said that making a custom engine was an option they never outright said how long they looked at it, if they limited what ideas they even looked at before it starts seems to be a bad way to approach a problem, even if it doesn't make it past the first couple of meetings.

With Unreal he said that they had the choice to use newest Unreal 3 or if Unreal 4 had been announced. Even if they know it was something being worked on it doesn't mean it would be something they would be able to use. Just like us with the latest nVidia cards, we all know they were working on the GTR series and were close to announcing them, but that was over a year of waiting for the official announcement for one reason or another. Going back and listening to the comments again they picked Frostbite in late 2011, but Unreal 4 was only revealed to a small group of developers at GDC 2012. The first releases using Unreal 4 were in 2015 with Tekken 7 and 2016 with Gear or War. So even though he might have known about it, doesn't mean it would have fit into the development timeline since Inquisition was released in late 2014 after having a pushback for at least six months.

Nothing you said makes me think it still wasn't their choice, which is my point all along with the EA forcing them narrative. They just figured their closest colleges were using it and if they needed any assistance Dice was only a flight away. If EA thought they could make more money with staying with Unreal because it worked better for the game I am pretty sure a corporation that people keep saying the common narrative is they care about money more then anything else would go with the option to license an engine to make more money at the end of the project.

Edit #1/Edit #2 (Reworked): One thing to consider as well is that they could have had the exact same problems with Unreal as they did with Frostbite.

Last Edit: Sept 1, 2018 12:25:09 GMT by Sanunes

griffith82
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Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers) Sept 1, 2018 12:43:01 GMT via mobile

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Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 12:43:01 GMT

Sept 1, 2018 4:41:22 GMT @magnetite said:

Sept 1, 2018 2:54:41 GMT griffith82 said:

Duke Nukem Forever was fun for what it was. I don't know how anyone expected anything different.

Could have been less pornographic, IMO. It was what turned me off in some parts, that made the game otherwise okay.

The original DN3D game didn't have quite the explicit extreme sexual and obscene content as DNF had.

Discussion for another thread.

I wouldn't call it pornographic but I agree not a discussion for in here.

Vanishing Point
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Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers) Sept 1, 2018 21:56:21 GMT

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Post by Vanishing Point on Sept 1, 2018 21:56:21 GMT

Sept 1, 2018 12:16:48 GMT Sanunes said:

I don't know the man well enough to analyze the words he says, but I know several programmers and communities is a common word for them.

Just because he said that making a custom engine was an option they never outright said how long they looked at it, if they limited what ideas they even looked at before it starts seems to be a bad way to approach a problem, even if it doesn't make it past the first couple of meetings.

With Unreal he said that they had the choice to use newest Unreal 3 or if Unreal 4 had been announced. Even if they know it was something being worked on it doesn't mean it would be something they would be able to use. Just like us with the latest nVidia cards, we all know they were working on the GTR series and were close to announcing them, but that was over a year of waiting for the official announcement for one reason or another. Going back and listening to the comments again they picked Frostbite in late 2011, but Unreal 4 was only revealed to a small group of developers at GDC 2012. The first releases using Unreal 4 were in 2015 with Tekken 7 and 2016 with Gear or War. So even though he might have known about it, doesn't mean it would have fit into the development timeline since Inquisition was released in late 2014 after having a pushback for at least six months.

Nothing you said makes me think it still wasn't their choice, which is my point all along with the EA forcing them narrative. They just figured their closest colleges were using it and if they needed any assistance Dice was only a flight away. If EA thought they could make more money with staying with Unreal because it worked better for the game I am pretty sure a corporation that people keep saying the common narrative is they care about money more then anything else would go with the option to license an engine to make more money at the end of the project.

Edit #1/Edit #2 (Reworked): One thing to consider as well is that they could have had the exact same problems with Unreal as they did with Frostbite.

By communities, I assume he meant the teams working on the other AAA titles that would have working experience with Frostbite.

Specifically talking about Andromeda. It was released late enough that UE4 was the more appealing option and they could mold the gameplay around it.

Between the extra exertion, coding time and trial-and-error required to integrate new systems Frostbite probably cost the studio money. From a long-term perspective, it would save Bioware money if they figured out how to properly implement it for Andromeda and all sequels.

I think there was pressure exerted downwards on Bioware to conform. But it was nothing like holding a gun to a kitten's head, and there were plenty of practical reasons to acquiesce.

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Andromeda has FAR too much potential to not continue the story...(some Andromeda spoilers)

Post by dmc1001 on Sept 1, 2018 7:18:55 GMT

Post by Sanunes on Sept 1, 2018 12:16:48 GMT

Post by griffith82 on Sept 1, 2018 12:43:01 GMT

Post by Vanishing Point on Sept 1, 2018 21:56:21 GMT