Basquemercat117
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Oct 15, 2018 18:48:41 GMT
Putting aside the risk of reviving the character, I feel like we’re better off starting fresh with a new PC if we’re going to have more going on in the Milky Way. I don’t want to drag on the same old character history forever. I’d like to have a character with a different origin, and honestly a proper reason for our character to start at level 1. Biggest problem with any MW story is the endings. I'm positive that's why it will never happen. i have to agree griffith82. anything after ME3 you either have to make 4 separate games of content because the endings are just that different, or you have to cannonize one of the endings which gets into the canon mess that star wars got into and piss off fans. no matter what way you slice it, there would need to be alot of work. Or you could completely throw away the original endings which is going to piss off fans.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 22, 2018 2:54:39 GMT
LOL! but on the same foot why have Star Trek conventions and comic coms etc . Shepard is still alive in our hearts and mind just like your love for Kaidan Star Trek is still on TV and in movie theaters. N7's are gone. Now, if we learned that an N7 were in cryo aboard the Nexus, maybe. If fact, with Avitus and the potential mystery N7, we could rebuild both organizations. Could be an interesting concept, especially since Spectres were created around the time of the Krogan Rebellions. They could similarly be useful against the Kett. N7's are the best of the best and no longer have to be human only...maybe the N program is geared toward the best but once you hit N7 you get invited to the Spectres.
Just musing so don't take this too seriously.
The easy understanding of Post-ME3 Milky Way is that the galactic community is more united than ever, N7 are revered, the Systems Alliance even integrates into the galactic politics, together with Turians and more. I think N7 could be candidates for Spectres more easily than with Shepard, but they're still different roles. Tweak depending on ending (which I still think can be centralized more than most assume): Destroy is organic (though I'd assume more than that) but has more AI issues, Control is transorganic but has less AI issues, and Synthesis is postorganic and mysterious and shit, but all at least initially follow Shepard's model in their own ways, and I imagine that includes a reference for N7 (more than ever) and a continuation of 'Spectre'. (not gonna get into lowest Destroy and Refuse-I-barely-can-think-of-as-canon) But in terms of Andromeda.. I don't know what you mean by mystery N7. We know that N7 is still viewed highly by at least some Andromedans, though known only as humans. I can easily imagine something I mostly imagined when waiting for MEA: a rival faction (ADVENT on Eos, in my idea), Alliance-legacy only/centric (not necessarily only human), builds up their own N7 in some way and it becomes something to clash against. A faction that wants to take the fight directly to the Kett/etc (alike Shepard's basis), but we actually properly are trying to find another way to solve our problems (kinda alike TIM's/etc basis). Some will say this runs N7 but I'm all for adding texture to it all. Ryder's father was (is? I still like to think he's out there) N7, Ryder seems like a character that has a respect for N7, but others can have their different views which can mutate as everyone is so far away from the Milky Way. I don't expect N7 to, at least initially, be any official class for the Ai. Sidenote: I hope the Ai continues to be called the Andromeda Initiative. Yeah there may be Nexus of Helius something or other, but in terms of unique government names, The Initiative is something that could be both uniquely peaceful and outgoing but also uniquely spooky when viewed differently. I love the idea of dealing not just with an Alliance-that-is-imperfect-and-new or Council-that-is-unified-yet-annoying-as-hell, but an Initiative that we finally just generally care about, yet has all sorts of sketchy aspects and burgeoning interests beyond its stated goals.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 22, 2018 2:56:49 GMT
Because Shepard could make a return in ME4. Putting aside the risk of reviving the character, I feel like we’re better off starting fresh with a new PC if we’re going to have more going on in the Milky Way. I don’t want to drag on the same old character history forever. I’d like to have a character with a different origin, and honestly a proper reason for our character to start at level 1. My dream is Ryder going at some point to the Milky Way and there's sections where we're Shepard for some reason. Not saying this dream would be a quality product. After Ryder can be whatever. I think next game should at least have big customization for alien/synthetic/etc characters in Multiplayer, potentially the same for DLC/sidegame alien protagonists, then the game after can finally please finally have alien choice major protagonist (Human/Asari/Turian/Salarian).
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 22, 2018 3:17:07 GMT
Biggest problem with any MW story is the endings. I'm positive that's why it will never happen. i have to agree griffith82. anything after ME3 you either have to make 4 separate games of content because the endings are just that different, or you have to cannonize one of the endings which gets into the canon mess that star wars got into and piss off fans. no matter what way you slice it, there would need to be alot of work. Or you could completely throw away the original endings which is going to piss off fans. I still don't get this. I've explained it before. Destroy - synthetic rebuilt, fights occur more rapidly with AI, galaxy recovers, explores tech that still gets a bit transhuman Control - problematic relationship with tech, resulting in level of it similar to what happens to Destroy Synthesis - they get enlightenment then <insert story reason> crash down, similar to level of Destroy and Control Refuse - ignore, it is canon to ME3 but not future games, like Shepard Dies in ME2 Suicide Mission -put a new prominent synthetic race to come out of all these outcomes, with a story reason for them existing that fits all (may have to do with Reaper legacy, idk) -put the game at least centuries after ME3, or rather sometime after MEA, and make a lot of background text/narrated/dialogue timeline to express to players as the new relevant history for codex -have all outcomes end up with some version of tech being used, for example post-Synthesis still learned some anti-AI buster tech in their experience, and post-Destroy still learned tech that has them optionally able to share something of memories deeply with each other (and thus Shepard is still 'in' them, but not to the point of ME3 Synthesis; but again, post-Synthesis is after a Fall anyway) -at least one great event pushed everything to 'merge' enough, regardless of ME3 choices -if Krogan, Rachni, Quarians, Geth are a concern: 1)Sideline their Milky Way presence, with openings for hints or depictions of them still existing somehow (Geth regrow Quarians, Quarians rebuild Geth, Rachni be stubborn, Krogan gradual die off) 2)Andromeda Initiative has all the curez. Obviously have Krogan, Quarians seem to be coming, a Geth reveal may occur -for the legacy Indoc Theory or Literal debate, include in the story some elaboration on the nature of indoc and such (have it tie into the more relevant new plotline) and add context that can make it more *plausible* than ever that Shepard was undergoing something of indoctrination, but also that the outcome we saw was at minimum, *essentially real*. At *most* leave openings for revelations (small to large, at times) of truths of the Shepard and their story coming out, because that could be fun, but otherwise its not important --but wouldn't Control or Synth be indoc? No, if we add context that make them more clearly understood as not indoc, even if problematic in their own ways and reasons; Shepard must always be a hero from ME3 -What happened to Destroy Shepard? Died or lived then died. What happened to Control Reaper!Shepard? Disruptions later resulted in a dismantling of their order (but not galactic death-war). What happened to Synth!Shep in everyone? Collapse occurred due to insert-insightful-plot-reason but many are still thankful Shepard tried; as well crafty writing insinuating that the collapse itself was not necessarily due to organic+synthetic peace but something else, at least by character perspective. It'd be hard, but IMO not impossible AT ALL to show a post-ME3 galaxy. A day after it? Okay, that's into the ME3 ending debate again. A month? Same. A year, decade? Still sounds super difficult. A century? Several centuries? Come on, anything can be done, and may be done with enough prep time by the designers and writers. But they'd be super high advanced? Well no, not if the galaxy went through turmoil that ruined much of their development, so write that in. So between the Andromedans' cool stuff and the Wayers' cool stuff from their experiences, they kinda each other out and we have a game world. The Shepard can still be revered as one that tried, who defeated the Reapers, and opened a way to the future. Not Shepard's fault another bad thing happened later.
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 22, 2018 5:06:57 GMT
I don't know what you mean by mystery N7. Part of what I wrote discussed the idea of an N7 being in cryo. Since we don't know who that person is, s/he is the "mystery N7".
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Post by quole on Oct 22, 2018 6:09:58 GMT
If they were ever to do a sequel set in the Milky Way galaxy then it would have to take place thousands of years later at the very least. That was the whole reason Andromeda was set in another galaxy because there are too many variables with the ME3 ending. In fact one of the variables literally involves everyone dying and the next cycle of races defeating the reapers. even if they made that ending non-canon there's too much of a difference between the 3 other endings. The green ending makes all life in the galaxy cybernetic and gives all technology data on all life (or something like that, the green ending makes no fucking sense at all and was never really explained). The blue ending still has reapers around too (which for all we know are still indoctrinating everyone around them), etc. There are just too many variables in the endings.
Honestly they are probably just going to have to either set everything from now on in another galaxy, set the series thousands or millions of years after the OT, reboot the franchise, or make a prequel (which I would absolutely HATE). The ending of ME3 is so bad that it transcends the destruction of ME3 and destroys the entire franchise as we know it. Not that that destruction wasnt already started in ME2 mind you.
They should just retcon everything after ME1 and make a real sequel to it.
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Basquemercat117
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Oct 22, 2018 19:30:02 GMT
i have to agree griffith82. anything after ME3 you either have to make 4 separate games of content because the endings are just that different, or you have to cannonize one of the endings which gets into the canon mess that star wars got into and piss off fans. no matter what way you slice it, there would need to be alot of work. Or you could completely throw away the original endings which is going to piss off fans. I still don't get this. I've explained it before. Destroy - synthetic rebuilt, fights occur more rapidly with AI, galaxy recovers, explores tech that still gets a bit transhuman Control - problematic relationship with tech, resulting in level of it similar to what happens to Destroy Synthesis - they get enlightenment then <insert story reason> crash down, similar to level of Destroy and Control Refuse - ignore, it is canon to ME3 but not future games, like Shepard Dies in ME2 Suicide Mission -put a new prominent synthetic race to come out of all these outcomes, with a story reason for them existing that fits all (may have to do with Reaper legacy, idk) -put the game at least centuries after ME3, or rather sometime after MEA, and make a lot of background text/narrated/dialogue timeline to express to players as the new relevant history for codex -have all outcomes end up with some version of tech being used, for example post-Synthesis still learned some anti-AI buster tech in their experience, and post-Destroy still learned tech that has them optionally able to share something of memories deeply with each other (and thus Shepard is still 'in' them, but not to the point of ME3 Synthesis; but again, post-Synthesis is after a Fall anyway) -at least one great event pushed everything to 'merge' enough, regardless of ME3 choices -if Krogan, Rachni, Quarians, Geth are a concern: 1)Sideline their Milky Way presence, with openings for hints or depictions of them still existing somehow (Geth regrow Quarians, Quarians rebuild Geth, Rachni be stubborn, Krogan gradual die off) 2)Andromeda Initiative has all the curez. Obviously have Krogan, Quarians seem to be coming, a Geth reveal may occur -for the legacy Indoc Theory or Literal debate, include in the story some elaboration on the nature of indoc and such (have it tie into the more relevant new plotline) and add context that can make it more *plausible* than ever that Shepard was undergoing something of indoctrination, but also that the outcome we saw was at minimum, *essentially real*. At *most* leave openings for revelations (small to large, at times) of truths of the Shepard and their story coming out, because that could be fun, but otherwise its not important --but wouldn't Control or Synth be indoc? No, if we add context that make them more clearly understood as not indoc, even if problematic in their own ways and reasons; Shepard must always be a hero from ME3 -What happened to Destroy Shepard? Died or lived then died. What happened to Control Reaper!Shepard? Disruptions later resulted in a dismantling of their order (but not galactic death-war). What happened to Synth!Shep in everyone? Collapse occurred due to insert-insightful-plot-reason but many are still thankful Shepard tried; as well crafty writing insinuating that the collapse itself was not necessarily due to organic+synthetic peace but something else, at least by character perspective. It'd be hard, but IMO not impossible AT ALL to show a post-ME3 galaxy. A day after it? Okay, that's into the ME3 ending debate again. A month? Same. A year, decade? Still sounds super difficult. A century? Several centuries? Come on, anything can be done, and may be done with enough prep time by the designers and writers. But they'd be super high advanced? Well no, not if the galaxy went through turmoil that ruined much of their development, so write that in. So between the Andromedans' cool stuff and the Wayers' cool stuff from their experiences, they kinda each other out and we have a game world. The Shepard can still be revered as one that tried, who defeated the Reapers, and opened a way to the future. Not Shepard's fault another bad thing happened later. i like your points and i do agree that its not impossible to make a MW sequel be very difficult. The only issue i have with it is your proposal pretty much makes the endings as similar as possible and pretty much makes the endings as inconsequential as possible. which goes against the idea our choices matter and is one of the biggest critiques of MEA and ME3. Not to mention just almost completely ignoring potential major players in the galactic scene (krogan, geth, quarians, ect). but that may be what it takes to make a sequel so bioware has to take that bullet. But if you want to take the endings to their fullest potential and have the endings be incredibly meaningful, to make a MW sequel would pretty much require you to make 4 games in one worth on content.
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 22, 2018 20:42:27 GMT
Sorry but for Bioware to make this N7 day decent?.... I think they should at least SAY! something.
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Basquemercat117
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Oct 22, 2018 20:55:19 GMT
Sorry but for Bioware to make this N7 day decent?.... I think they should at least SAY! something. oh yeah they should say something for the love of god.
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SwobyJ
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 23, 2018 14:51:18 GMT
I still don't get this. I've explained it before. Destroy - synthetic rebuilt, fights occur more rapidly with AI, galaxy recovers, explores tech that still gets a bit transhuman Control - problematic relationship with tech, resulting in level of it similar to what happens to Destroy Synthesis - they get enlightenment then <insert story reason> crash down, similar to level of Destroy and Control Refuse - ignore, it is canon to ME3 but not future games, like Shepard Dies in ME2 Suicide Mission -put a new prominent synthetic race to come out of all these outcomes, with a story reason for them existing that fits all (may have to do with Reaper legacy, idk) -put the game at least centuries after ME3, or rather sometime after MEA, and make a lot of background text/narrated/dialogue timeline to express to players as the new relevant history for codex -have all outcomes end up with some version of tech being used, for example post-Synthesis still learned some anti-AI buster tech in their experience, and post-Destroy still learned tech that has them optionally able to share something of memories deeply with each other (and thus Shepard is still 'in' them, but not to the point of ME3 Synthesis; but again, post-Synthesis is after a Fall anyway) -at least one great event pushed everything to 'merge' enough, regardless of ME3 choices -if Krogan, Rachni, Quarians, Geth are a concern: 1)Sideline their Milky Way presence, with openings for hints or depictions of them still existing somehow (Geth regrow Quarians, Quarians rebuild Geth, Rachni be stubborn, Krogan gradual die off) 2)Andromeda Initiative has all the curez. Obviously have Krogan, Quarians seem to be coming, a Geth reveal may occur -for the legacy Indoc Theory or Literal debate, include in the story some elaboration on the nature of indoc and such (have it tie into the more relevant new plotline) and add context that can make it more *plausible* than ever that Shepard was undergoing something of indoctrination, but also that the outcome we saw was at minimum, *essentially real*. At *most* leave openings for revelations (small to large, at times) of truths of the Shepard and their story coming out, because that could be fun, but otherwise its not important --but wouldn't Control or Synth be indoc? No, if we add context that make them more clearly understood as not indoc, even if problematic in their own ways and reasons; Shepard must always be a hero from ME3 -What happened to Destroy Shepard? Died or lived then died. What happened to Control Reaper!Shepard? Disruptions later resulted in a dismantling of their order (but not galactic death-war). What happened to Synth!Shep in everyone? Collapse occurred due to insert-insightful-plot-reason but many are still thankful Shepard tried; as well crafty writing insinuating that the collapse itself was not necessarily due to organic+synthetic peace but something else, at least by character perspective. It'd be hard, but IMO not impossible AT ALL to show a post-ME3 galaxy. A day after it? Okay, that's into the ME3 ending debate again. A month? Same. A year, decade? Still sounds super difficult. A century? Several centuries? Come on, anything can be done, and may be done with enough prep time by the designers and writers. But they'd be super high advanced? Well no, not if the galaxy went through turmoil that ruined much of their development, so write that in. So between the Andromedans' cool stuff and the Wayers' cool stuff from their experiences, they kinda each other out and we have a game world. The Shepard can still be revered as one that tried, who defeated the Reapers, and opened a way to the future. Not Shepard's fault another bad thing happened later. i like your points and i do agree that its not impossible to make a MW sequel be very difficult. The only issue i have with it is your proposal pretty much makes the endings as similar as possible and pretty much makes the endings as inconsequential as possible. which goes against the idea our choices matter and is one of the biggest critiques of MEA and ME3. Not to mention just almost completely ignoring potential major players in the galactic scene (krogan, geth, quarians, ect). but that may be what it takes to make a sequel so bioware has to take that bullet. But if you want to take the endings to their fullest potential and have the endings be incredibly meaningful, to make a MW sequel would pretty much require you to make 4 games in one worth on content. For you maybe. Not most ME gamers I know IRL and frankly on the Internet outside things like BSN. ME3 and MEA got blasted (well ME3; MEA the disappointed head shake) for not having choice and consequence, or enough of it, *within* the game. People understand in DA, more or less, that choosing the king of Ferelden, a major political move, isn't going to make a next Dragon Age game a wildly varying experience. And actually, most understand at least similarly in ME. (MEA already ensured survival of Krogan and seemingly Quarians in the cosmos regardless of Shepard)
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 24, 2018 18:08:35 GMT
i like your points and i do agree that its not impossible to make a MW sequel be very difficult. The only issue i have with it is your proposal pretty much makes the endings as similar as possible and pretty much makes the endings as inconsequential as possible. which goes against the idea our choices matter and is one of the biggest critiques of MEA and ME3. Not to mention just almost completely ignoring potential major players in the galactic scene (krogan, geth, quarians, ect). but that may be what it takes to make a sequel so bioware has to take that bullet. But if you want to take the endings to their fullest potential and have the endings be incredibly meaningful, to make a MW sequel would pretty much require you to make 4 games in one worth on content. For you maybe. Not most ME gamers I know IRL and frankly on the Internet outside things like BSN. ME3 and MEA got blasted (well ME3; MEA the disappointed head shake) for not having choice and consequence, or enough of it, *within* the game. People understand in DA, more or less, that choosing the king of Ferelden, a major political move, isn't going to make a next Dragon Age game a wildly varying experience. And actually, most understand at least similarly in ME. (MEA already ensured survival of Krogan and seemingly Quarians in the cosmos regardless of Shepard) You assume way too much. Only a certain sect of people want that. I don't and I'm positive many more don't.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Oct 24, 2018 18:51:11 GMT
For you maybe. Not most ME gamers I know IRL and frankly on the Internet outside things like BSN. ME3 and MEA got blasted (well ME3; MEA the disappointed head shake) for not having choice and consequence, or enough of it, *within* the game. People understand in DA, more or less, that choosing the king of Ferelden, a major political move, isn't going to make a next Dragon Age game a wildly varying experience. And actually, most understand at least similarly in ME. (MEA already ensured survival of Krogan and seemingly Quarians in the cosmos regardless of Shepard) You assume way too much. Only a certain sect of people want that. I don't and I'm positive many more don't. i feel like we need to just say saying: most of the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant is just a really weak argument not really worth saying. Half the time its used the bloody response to it is "well the the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant says what ever my view point is.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 24, 2018 19:30:44 GMT
You assume way too much. Only a certain sect of people want that. I don't and I'm positive many more don't. i feel like we need to just say saying: most of the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant is just a really weak argument not really worth saying. Half the time its used the bloody response to it is "well the the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant says what ever my view point is. Truthfully it is. Its like, "my daddy says the sky is purple so it is." Very facepalm worthy.
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Post by Basquemercat117 on Oct 24, 2018 22:08:22 GMT
i feel like we need to just say saying: most of the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant is just a really weak argument not really worth saying. Half the time its used the bloody response to it is "well the the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant says what ever my view point is. Truthfully it is. Its like, "my daddy sausage the sky is purple so it is." Very facepalm worthy. your daddy's sausage says some very weird things.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 24, 2018 23:20:48 GMT
Truthfully it is. Its like, "my daddy sausage the sky is purple so it is." Very facepalm worthy. your daddy's sausage says some very weird things. I um..... *curses autocorrect and hides*
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Post by Son of Dorn on Oct 25, 2018 1:23:12 GMT
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Apr 24, 2024 18:16:02 GMT
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SwobyJ
2,074
January 2017
swobyj
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 25, 2018 2:15:25 GMT
You assume way too much. Only a certain sect of people want that. I don't and I'm positive many more don't. i feel like we need to just say saying: most of the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant is just a really weak argument not really worth saying. Half the time its used the bloody response to it is "well the the people i know IRL/internet/BSN/whatever variant says what ever my view point is. Its a weak argument but it's typically an impactful thing. Less argumentative and more explaining self belief. I wouldn't say it for all things ME though. For example I know a mix of people in regards to viewing ME3 compared to MEA. Some loved ME3. Some loved MEA (well one shocked me). Some are okay with either. I'd say the viewpoint was more overall negative about MEA, but its enough of a mix that I can't say "Most ME gamers I know hate/love Andromeda". It wouldn't be true. What is still true is that I get many complaints about ME3 not reflecting choices enough at the end and MEA not reflecting choices enough generally. Friends hitting me up when finally finishing ME3 and raging about it (years after release). Discussions at a dinner where others thought the choices of MEA were bland in results. I check out reviews. It's a thing sometimes there too. I check out Internet discussions. It's even more of a thing. I don't really see much concern about ME3 choices being highly reflected multiple games away from it, except from some on BSN. My friends don't care. My acquaintances who've played ME don't care. Other online discussions have people not caring and just wanting a solution. I'd say I actually care much more than most I meet. Others seem to want Bioware to just get on with it, whereas I at least craft ideas like I wrote earlier. Yeah it's all a weak argument in terms of determining a concrete truth, but I'll happily share perspective regardless, a perspective that believes that these opinions are not just a 'sect', but rather the opposite. Frankly so much of what I hear in BSN is even the polar opposite I hear when meeting friends, others, other online communities. Not always, there's always some bleed, but that's it. If we trust the infographics, its like only 1/5-1/4 of Bioware gamers are even into all the fan-focused anything-at-all, where over half just want a game to blast through, and their opinions on the games reflect that. I really don't believe that there's some silent majority of people all torn about "But what if my Genophage decision *isn't shown enough*"
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