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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 3:02:58 GMT
How well does Dorian's romance go for roleplay potential? Whether someone likes a thing, or not, is subjective. However, I can say that Dorian's romance is objectively good for roleplay. The various dialogues have different paths so you can match to your headcanon; this happens with all of Dorian's quests. For the romance specifically, you can initiate the first kiss, or he can; you can talk to him about the amulet (romance quest), or surprise him with it; you can have a sex scene, or not (take it slow), and both of these are full options (that is, the non-sex version isn't lacking, it's just different). Outside of the character himself, this aspect is one of my favorite things about the romance. Someone else with a different headcanon can have a completely different romance flavor from mine and actually play that out in the game because you have those different options. And because this would matter to some, despite what some people think and stereotypes they have, the game does not specify top/bottom, as it does with Bull's romance, so you can headcanon that as well. It's an excellent romance for roleplay. I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 3:07:24 GMT
What makes their quest hard? Is he playing hard to get? Nah. It can be difficult depending on your choices in the game, particularly concerning mages/templars, but there are more than enough points in the game to make up for it on other ways. I've never had any issues. I watched his romance quest on Youtube but it didn't say as much as you described so nice! Some of what you said is how I feel about Dorian's character. His looks and gestures show a lot of longing and tenderness. His pride and superficiality are a ruse and he does accept his imperfection with grace and a little prodding, lol. I really liked seeing Dorian happy for a change since he had such a hard time for being gay. As a big fan of Dorian, I can say that their romances have a similar flavor. They're both restrained in moments, and they are both healing romances with some angst. If you like angst, and don't mind some issues with intimacy, Fenris is your guy in DA2. Anders has angst as well, but of a different kind and not especially related to the romance itself.
[edit] I would say that Isabela is the next closest for angst revolving around intimacy. She's like a Sera/Fenris combo in that regard: bold and brash, says what she thinks, and open about her sexuality, but has deeper hurts that hinder a meaningful relationship until she's able to move past them.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 3:22:37 GMT
I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition. I should add that it helps to know about some of this in advance. My second+ time with his romance is more accurate to my headcanon because I knew about the different paths and could plan for them. For example, it's very easy to miss the alternate first kiss, where Dorian initiates. After the Halward conversation, it's quite common to pick the option there, but that results in the Inquisitor initiating the first kiss. If you take that, you don't see the alternate option or get a chance to take it, because it happens only if you skip that and wait for the Giselle scene. So if you don't care to test things out yourself, or care about spoilers (most of which I did in that paragraph anyway...), it's good to read about it and plan ahead of time.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 3:26:50 GMT
I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition. I should add that it helps to know about some of this in advance. My second+ time with his romance is more accurate to my headcanon because I knew about the different paths and could plan for them. For example, it's very easy to miss the alternate first kiss, where Dorian initiates. After the Halward conversation, it's quite common to pick the option there, but that results in the Inquisitor initiating the first kiss. If you take that, you don't see the alternate option or get a chance to take it, because it happens only if you skip that and wait for the Giselle scene. So if you don't care to test things out yourself, or care about spoilers (most of which I did in that paragraph anyway...), it's good to read about it and plan ahead of time. It's good advice should I have a chance to do another play through. Sounds like it's worth trying out a male Inquisitor for the Dorian romance.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 4:54:23 GMT
I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition. I should add that it helps to know about some of this in advance. My second+ time with his romance is more accurate to my headcanon because I knew about the different paths and could plan for them. For example, it's very easy to miss the alternate first kiss, where Dorian initiates. After the Halward conversation, it's quite common to pick the option there, but that results in the Inquisitor initiating the first kiss. If you take that, you don't see the alternate option or get a chance to take it, because it happens only if you skip that and wait for the Giselle scene. So if you don't care to test things out yourself, or care about spoilers (most of which I did in that paragraph anyway...), it's good to read about it and plan ahead of time. I totally missed the alternative kiss during the Mother Giselle scene, lol.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 6:01:39 GMT
Whether someone likes a thing, or not, is subjective. However, I can say that Dorian's romance is objectively good for roleplay. The various dialogues have different paths so you can match to your headcanon; this happens with all of Dorian's quests. For the romance specifically, you can initiate the first kiss, or he can; you can talk to him about the amulet (romance quest), or surprise him with it; you can have a sex scene, or not (take it slow), and both of these are full options (that is, the non-sex version isn't lacking, it's just different). Outside of the character himself, this aspect is one of my favorite things about the romance. Someone else with a different headcanon can have a completely different romance flavor from mine and actually play that out in the game because you have those different options. And because this would matter to some, despite what some people think and stereotypes they have, the game does not specify top/bottom, as it does with Bull's romance, so you can headcanon that as well. It's an excellent romance for roleplay. I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition. I also felt I wanted to have an option for my Inquisitor to flip or at least alternate being more dominant but I see how it defeats the purpose of Bull's backstory as someone who was breed to be tough and who doesn't equate sex with love. But thank goodness he softens up emotionally which means a lot more. The inquisitor finally got to his heart.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 6:12:17 GMT
I will agree about that part of Bull's romance. It did irk that we couldn't choose whether the Inquisitor leaned to a more dominant side. Dorian's romance sounds like it strikes a more healthy tone compared to some of the other romances in Inquisition. I also felt I wanted to have an option for my Inquisitor to flip or at least alternate being more dominant but I see how it defeats the purpose of Bull's backstory as someone who was breed to be tough and who doesn't equate sex with love. But thank goodness he softens up emotionally which means a lot more. The inquisitor finally got to his heart. I think it could have worked another way with the Inquisitor as a dom, showing that Bull doesn't have to follow orders because he's serving a master/mistress, but rather that he can rely on another to take care of his needs instead. Maybe? I could be reading it the wrong way. What I've noticed in a way, is that romances tend to be tailored to a specific personality sometimes. Depending on the character, it's hard to roleplay a specific personality sometimes because the dialogue presumes a bit as to the type of person it'd take to romance that character. Which makes sense. Sera might find an Inquisitor who's dowdy and stiff boring while Blackwall tends towards a serious emotional connection. Bull offers something in between and that cutscene where you can joke to him about marriage or treat it seriously was what made him so appealing. He fits a wide variety of personalities if one doesn't mind the sub implications.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 6:28:07 GMT
I also felt I wanted to have an option for my Inquisitor to flip or at least alternate being more dominant but I see how it defeats the purpose of Bull's backstory as someone who was breed to be tough and who doesn't equate sex with love. But thank goodness he softens up emotionally which means a lot more. The inquisitor finally got to his heart. I think it could have worked another way with the Inquisitor as a dom, showing that Bull doesn't have to follow orders because he's serving a master/mistress, but rather that he can rely on another to take care of his needs instead. Maybe? I could be reading it the wrong way. What I've noticed in a way, is that romances tend to be tailored to a specific personality sometimes. Depending on the character, it's hard to roleplay a specific personality sometimes because the dialogue presumes a bit as to the type of person it'd take to romance that character. Which makes sense. Sera might find an Inquisitor who's dowdy and stiff boring while Blackwall tends towards a serious emotional connection. Bull offers something in between and that cutscene where you can joke to him about marriage or treat it seriously was what made him so appealing. He fits a wide variety of personalities if one doesn't mind the sub implications. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 6.699999999999989px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_74656322" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_59350083" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34964293" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4183699" scrolling="no"></iframe> I agree with you largely. The Inquisitor, however, was given the option to ask Bull about his needs and the response was that Bull is perfectly happy to be in the dom. I was more hesitant in taking Bull's romance quest due to his emotional detachment. I think the roles touches on stereotypes but then it slowly melts into what it may (are) real to life. I wish we can romance Krem and even Sir Michel de Chevin. Krem would be a super interesting character to be with as a female inquisitor and Michel seems like someone who's bold and loyal but too intwined in the Orlesian game that my male inquisitor would want to break down to show him what trust is in a love relationship. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 6.699999999999989px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_48916725" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_83253961" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 273px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_5423190" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 6.699999999999989px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34543826" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_73198361" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 273px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_66741051" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 273px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_93416750" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 273px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34964240" scrolling="no"></iframe>
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 6:32:04 GMT
Michel seems like someone why that my male inquisitor would want to chase... a difficult chaseWhy do you say that? (It's been years since I read TME, so don't recall much about his character.)
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 6:32:35 GMT
I think it could have worked another way with the Inquisitor as a dom, showing that Bull doesn't have to follow orders because he's serving a master/mistress, but rather that he can rely on another to take care of his needs instead. Maybe? I could be reading it the wrong way. What I've noticed in a way, is that romances tend to be tailored to a specific personality sometimes. Depending on the character, it's hard to roleplay a specific personality sometimes because the dialogue presumes a bit as to the type of person it'd take to romance that character. Which makes sense. Sera might find an Inquisitor who's dowdy and stiff boring while Blackwall tends towards a serious emotional connection. Bull offers something in between and that cutscene where you can joke to him about marriage or treat it seriously was what made him so appealing. He fits a wide variety of personalities if one doesn't mind the sub implications. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 6.699999999999989px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_74656322" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_59350083" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34964293" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4183699" scrolling="no"></iframe> I agree with you largely. The Inquisitor, however, was given the option to ask Bull about his needs and the response was that Bull is perfectly happy to be in the dom. I was more hesitant in taking Bull's romance quest due to his emotional detachment. I think the roles touches on stereotypes but then it slowly melts into what it may (are) real to life. I wish we can romance Krem and even Sir Michel de Chevin. Krem would be a super interesting character to be with as a female inquisitor and Michel seems like someone why that my male inquisitor would want to chase...a difficult chase. Krem would indeed have been interesting, but Michel...ehhhh. If what I heard was true, his attitude towards being elf blooded was a turn off.
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Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 6:35:31 GMT
<iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 6.699999999999989px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_74656322" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_59350083" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_34964293" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="6.699999999999989" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 6.7px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 272px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4183699" scrolling="no"></iframe> I agree with you largely. The Inquisitor, however, was given the option to ask Bull about his needs and the response was that Bull is perfectly happy to be in the dom. I was more hesitant in taking Bull's romance quest due to his emotional detachment. I think the roles touches on stereotypes but then it slowly melts into what it may (are) real to life. I wish we can romance Krem and even Sir Michel de Chevin. Krem would be a super interesting character to be with as a female inquisitor and Michel seems like someone why that my male inquisitor would want to chase...a difficult chase. Krem would indeed have been interesting, but Michel...ehhhh. If what I heard was true, his attitude towards being elf blooded was a turn off. Oops, you responded to my post as I was still editing it, lol. If Michel did say that about being an elf, that I wouldn't romance him either. You might have to point it out where he mentioned it in the game.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 6:38:39 GMT
Krem would indeed have been interesting, but Michel...ehhhh. If what I heard was true, his attitude towards being elf blooded was a turn off. Oops, you responded to my post as I was still editing it, lol. If Michel did say that about being an elf, that I wouldn't romance him either. You might have to point it out where he mentioned it in the game. Michel doesn't mention it in game as his role is so brief, but what I've heard from other posters in Masked Empire is that he's overcompensated for his heritage with extreme hostility towards elves. Yeah. I think we have enough companions who've made their opinions known about elves. Sera, Solas, Cassandra, yet we can't call them out about Andrastians being just as ignorant while playing up the "Herald of Andraste" angle on them.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 6:42:02 GMT
Michel seems like someone why that my male inquisitor would want to chase... a difficult chaseWhy do you say that? (It's been years since I read TME, so don't recall much about his character.) The only thing that we know about Michel in DAI is that he knows the game very well and he was disgraced from court for treachery but that wasn't really spelled out. This is the rest that I know about Michel: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Michel_de_Chevin The rest I just made up in my head.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 6:52:06 GMT
Oops, you responded to my post as I was still editing it, lol. If Michel did say that about being an elf, that I wouldn't romance him either. You might have to point it out where he mentioned it in the game. Michel doesn't mention it in game as his role is so brief, but what I've heard from other posters in Masked Empire is that he's overcompensated for his heritage with extreme hostility towards elves. Yeah. I think we have enough companions who've made their opinions known about elves. Sera, Solas, Cassandra, yet we can't call them out about Andrastians being just as ignorant while playing up the "Herald of Andraste" angle on them. I looked up Michel on Dragonage.wikia and I misunderstood what elf-blooded meant. So he's half human, half elf. If he is of mix-heritage, I'm confused why he would be against elves? Also, what was his treachery that was mentioned in the game? The statements from Wikia might answer the questions: Appearing human, however, is not a guarantee that an elf-blooded will not be discriminated against. Notably, in Halamshiral, the elf-blooded do not enjoy the benefits their human status confers.[8] The city, being primarily elven, has a human quarter, the High Quarter, and all elves and elf-blooded are relegated to the elven slum that comprises the rest of the city.
Being elf-blooded carries great stigma in Thedas, as the subjugated status of elves is seen as a mark of shame on one's parentage. The potential cost to social status is such that some elf-blooded strive to conceal their parentage at all costs.[9] Similarly, these individuals can be looked down upon by full-blooded elves.[10] Indeed, it is considered better for an elf-blooded to be raised and live as a human, if possible, to enjoy the associated social advantages, than to be known to have an elven parent.Known elf-blooded: - Alistair[11], although this is not publicly known.
- Agur: the former mayor of Ville Montevelan (rumored)[12]
- Eiton
- Feynriel
- Gestan: Resident of elven area of Halamshiral[8]
- Kieran: If fathered by a male elf Warden of one of the elven origins; if Alistair is his father Kieran is one-quarter elven.
- Michel de Chevin
- "Sabina's Brat": Son of the elven prostitute Sabina at the Blooming Rose
- Slim Couldry
- Thale: Resident on the elven section of Halamshiral[8]
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 6:59:48 GMT
Michel doesn't mention it in game as his role is so brief, but what I've heard from other posters in Masked Empire is that he's overcompensated for his heritage with extreme hostility towards elves. Yeah. I think we have enough companions who've made their opinions known about elves. Sera, Solas, Cassandra, yet we can't call them out about Andrastians being just as ignorant while playing up the "Herald of Andraste" angle on them. I looked up Michel on Dragonage.wikia and I misunderstood what elf-blooded meant. So he's half human, half elf. If he is of mix-heritage, I'm confused why he would be against elves? Also, what was his treachery that was mentioned in the game? Technically, Michel is human. Who just happened to have an elven parent. Elf blooded individuals are for all intents and purpose, the race of their other parent and not the elven parent. No night vision, no pointy ears, nothing is inherited genetically from the elven parent. But racism is so prevalent that to be associated with an elf is like being descended from, well, a subhuman. It's common for self hatred to occur, where a member of the stigmatized race turns on their own (like Sera automatically giving more disapproval and less approval for a Dalish Inquisitor doing the exact same thing as any other Inquisitor just because they're an elf). Michel, again from what I hear, shows increased hostility towards Briala who guesses his heritage since it seemed out of proportion. Add to that his status as a Chevalier, where members have an initiation rite of getting drunk and going out to murder a city elf, Michel is already a controversial choice, even compared to Sera.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 7:25:27 GMT
If he is of mix-heritage, I'm confused why he would be against elves? I don't recall if his true personal views are made clear, or not. Racism against elves is very common in Thedas, so he wants to hide that part of himself. One way to do this is to overcompensate with the racism toward elves so no one thinks he's "one of them." I'm ambivalent about the issue regarding Michel and his behavior. On one hand, it's atrocious behavior. There is no ignoring that part of it. It's excessive and unnecessary. On the other hand, it is also self-protection. I can't claim to know what it's like to be part of a minority group, never mind as someone that is able to "pass" as a non-minority. While the behavior is terrible, that aspect of it needs to be part of the discussion and should not be brushed aside. In many ways, he is a product of his environment. While there are some negative remarks regarding elves in DAI, as opuspace alludes to, there isn't outright racism of the type that Michel exhibits in The Masked Empire. Racism toward elves is also considerably more overt in DAO and DA2, so you haven't had that experience. However, in all the games, the attitude toward the elven player Warden or Inquisitor is less than it is to other elven NPCs, for what I assume to be the dev reason of not overburdening the player with it. In addition, the roles of Warden and Inquisitor transcend race and magic (i.e., whether you are a mage). It easier to get a clearer picture in something like a novel or comic where the writer doesn't have to worry about the player and working around them. Dorian also alludes to racism toward qunari (that it exists, not his own) in a dialogue with the qunari Inquisitor as well. It seems the only non-human race that isn't discriminated against are the dwarves.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Oct 4, 2018 10:06:57 GMT
He's passionate and restrained. Has a bitter humour. His romance is a hard one, but absolutely worth. What makes their quest hard? Is he playing hard to get? Technically as pro-freedom Hawke. To decide rivalry or friendship and keep it consistent. I found the rivalry a bit harder, but still worth, and can be very good in RP-view. Not better than the friendship, but has a plus potential to me – depends on Hawke's temper. (Not in romance I prefer the friendship.) But rather as role-playing, with mage Hawke's viewpoint. How you can imagine this hard love (and weird friendship), especially because he will break up after the first sex (it's not mage!Hawke special, he leaves in every case), and mage Hawke can think, he did it, because of what is s/he. He will show, he's still in love, so, I imagine, the whole romance is an emotional roller-coaster: hope and frustration.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 4, 2018 12:17:48 GMT
I never played the previous DA. I'm curious as to what people find so fascinating about him? He ranks #1. His voice, his lovely face, his entrance is incredible. His line: I am yours I like that Hawke can talk with him and learn about Seheron, fog warriors, Tevinter. His dialog tree seems deeper and longer. I like that he slowly becomes friends with Aveline, Donnic, Sebastian, Varric. He sucks at wicket grace. He has a really good sense of humor, sometimes dry. Love the dance humor. And I get the feeling that if you gain his respect he will be loyal for life. He has respect for people they need to earn it. He has strong opinions but willing to change as when he meets Bethany. Anders I think he is a bit jealous and also fearful of Anders magic and Justice given his time in Tevinter but I think with time he would become if not close at least friends. Merril on the other hand I don't think he would ever become friends with her blood magic, he see her as irresponsible and maybe too much like the Tevinter magisters. This all makes him seem so fleshed out - it's nice. Ah I forgot his puppy eyes and glowing fist and that he will kill for Hawke and all hawke has to do is ask And in Kirkwall its a neat skill to have. Oh and I like that he is not perfect and has failings. Fenris never changes his mind. He just... makes exceptions. That's it.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 14:30:53 GMT
I looked up Michel on Dragonage.wikia and I misunderstood what elf-blooded meant. So he's half human, half elf. If he is of mix-heritage, I'm confused why he would be against elves? Also, what was his treachery that was mentioned in the game? Technically, Michel is human. Who just happened to have an elven parent. Elf blooded individuals are for all intents and purpose, the race of their other parent and not the elven parent. No night vision, no pointy ears, nothing is inherited genetically from the elven parent. But racism is so prevalent that to be associated with an elf is like being descended from, well, a subhuman. It's common for self hatred to occur, where a member of the stigmatized race turns on their own (like Sera automatically giving more disapproval and less approval for a Dalish Inquisitor doing the exact same thing as any other Inquisitor just because they're an elf). Michel, again from what I hear, shows increased hostility towards Briala who guesses his heritage since it seemed out of proportion. Add to that his status as a Chevalier, where members have an initiation rite of getting drunk and going out to murder a city elf, Michel is already a controversial choice, even compared to Sera. Ah! As someone who has never played the previous DA, I am enlightened. Thank you. Is there such thing as forgiveness though? Do you think he could ever redeem himself? His intent was to slay a demon in Emprise du Lion but ended up protecting the people there. He then joined the inquisition. Both him and Blackwell had a dark, violent pass.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 14:34:01 GMT
What makes their quest hard? Is he playing hard to get? Technically as pro-freedom Hawke. To decide rivalry or friendship and keep it consistent. I found the rivalry a bit harder, but still worth, and can be very good in RP-view. Not better than the friendship, but has a plus potential to me – depends on Hawke's temper. (Not in romance I prefer the friendship.) But rather as role-playing, with mage Hawke's viewpoint. How you can imagine this hard love (and weird friendship), especially because he will break up after the first sex (it's not mage!Hawke special, he leaves in every case), and mage Hawke can think, he did it, because of what is s/he. He will show, he's still in love, so, I imagine, the whole romance is an emotional roller-coaster: hope and frustration. Ok, I'm getting it now. This is so interesting to me learning from all of you about the lore and characters I've never played.
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Post by Slyvalyth on Oct 4, 2018 15:06:07 GMT
If he is of mix-heritage, I'm confused why he would be against elves? I don't recall if his true personal views are made clear, or not. Racism against elves is very common in Thedas, so he wants to hide that part of himself. One way to do this is to overcompensate with the racism toward elves so no one thinks he's "one of them." I'm ambivalent about the issue regarding Michel and his behavior. On one hand, it's atrocious behavior. There is no ignoring that part of it. It's excessive and unnecessary. On the other hand, it is also self-protection. I can't claim to know what it's like to be part of a minority group, never mind as someone that is able to "pass" as a non-minority. While the behavior is terrible, that aspect of it needs to be part of the discussion and should not be brushed aside. In many ways, he is a product of his environment. While there are some negative remarks regarding elves in DAI, as opuspace alludes to, there isn't outright racism of the type that Michel exhibits in The Masked Empire. Racism toward elves is also considerably more overt in DAO and DA2, so you haven't had that experience. However, in all the games, the attitude toward the elven player Warden or Inquisitor is less than it is to other elven NPCs, for what I assume to be the dev reason of not overburdening the player with it. In addition, the roles of Warden and Inquisitor transcend race and magic (i.e., whether you are a mage). It easier to get a clearer picture in something like a novel or comic where the writer doesn't have to worry about the player and working around them. Dorian also alludes to racism toward qunari (that it exists, not his own) in a dialogue with the qunari Inquisitor as well. It seems the only non-human race that isn't discriminated against are the dwarves. I am enlightened by you and your explanation. Thank you. For myself, I would say that I would not join the chevalier if it came to killing an elf to be initiated as I would not kill any living being as a sport. However, I do not know what the circumstances are for Michel, how he was raised, what other opportunities he could have, etc. Like you said, he's a product of his environment. Still, I would not go near anyone who would discriminate. No romancing Michel for me, lol. Yes, I purposefully made a female elf mage inquisitor Vellalore and a female qunari templar inquisitor Sehareh just to experience the discrimination. I had to say that I had the most visceral reaction playing the elf. The racism was palpable enough, partly because I've already gone through quests with my human inquisitors to know of the harsh treatment and deaths of elves and then the new dialogs I got pertaining to Vellalore the moment I started playing her.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 4, 2018 20:16:19 GMT
However, I do not know what the circumstances are for Michel, how he was raised, what other opportunities he could have, etc. Like you said, he's a product of his environment. Another factor in Michel's attitude is the fact that it is an offence punishable by death to impersonate someone of noble blood in Orlais. So he had double the reason to want to cover his tracks and not want to show any sort of sympathies towards elves. I might have thought that having had his parentage revealed and effectively lose his status in society, that he might have been capable of showing some affinity and sympathy towards elves. However, the moment he gets the chance to be taken back into service at the Orlesian Court, he seems only to happy to do so, so I think he had become too immersed in the mind-set of the Chevaliers to ever really change.
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Post by opuspace on Oct 4, 2018 20:56:31 GMT
Ah! As someone who has never played the previous DA, I am enlightened. Thank you. Is there such thing as forgiveness though? Do you think he could ever redeem himself? His intent was to slay a demon in Emprise du Lion but ended up protecting the people there. He then joined the inquisition. Both him and Blackwell had a dark, violent pass. I don't know. It's always possible if the developers decided to. It would have been an interesting thing to explore but we already have Inquisition romances where a Dalish Inquisitor has to decide whether it's worth staying with a paramour or not. Sera will blackmail the relationship with Lavellan if they don't agree with her calling Dalish beliefs all lies. Cassandra will ask an Inquisitor to consider becoming Andrastian if they have their own gods but trash the religious faith of the Dalish. She even gives disapproval for saying you don't believe in the Maker and massive disapproval for criticizing the Chantry. Some people even have issues with Dorian condoning slavery. It all depends on the person. Personally? Cassandra and Sera are hard for me to make a romance play through for. Their lack of respect for the Inquisitor having their own beliefs is a mood killer. Blackwall never demands or judges who the Inquisitor is, only what they do and he's worked his tail off already trying to atone. For Michel to work as a romance, I'd want to see the Inquisitor actually be able to express anger and to argue for their own opinion instead of quietly taking it without a word if Michel ever made denigrating comments about elves.
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Post by vertigomez on Oct 4, 2018 21:02:48 GMT
I'm baffled that no one has voted for Solas as their second favorite yet. I know he's #1 for a lot of folks, but I figured there were bound to be some Cullenites or something that liked him second best.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2018 22:01:52 GMT
Ah! As someone who has never played the previous DA, I am enlightened. Thank you. Is there such thing as forgiveness though? Do you think he could ever redeem himself? His intent was to slay a demon in Emprise du Lion but ended up protecting the people there. He then joined the inquisition. Both him and Blackwell had a dark, violent pass. I don't think that's a question that can be objectively answered. Everyone has to find the limit for them in that regard. After all, some continue to want to be in a relationship with Blackwall and Solas, despite their lying or their past. There are many mage players that romance Cullen, despite his past issues. For me, it would depend on how it's portrayed in the game, how the character reacts to it, how I feel about those two combined, and how it meshes with my character's RP.
I can tell you that there definitely would be people into the self-tortured former chevalier with self-identity issues.
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