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Post by SofaJockey on Nov 3, 2018 14:46:18 GMT
I want to be able to go to a children's park in the game...
MODERATOR ADVISORY
This is all getting rather graphic, gothpunkboy89 , so whilst your exuberant delight in the macabre is not expressly prohibited by our rules, can we have a rest for a bit now and put our barf buckets to one side? You've had a lengthy conversation in the thread, I think it would be nice to get a few views on the OP from others, please. Thank you.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 3, 2018 14:49:09 GMT
Look most of us like the games the way they are. Source? I don't agree with your take and never will. I see your point but ME ain't fallout. I'm quite glad it isn't. If you think it is a bad idea you need better reasoning then no I want to be able to go to a children's park in the game and cut off puppies heads and then throw their lifeless blood soaked corpse at children. And still get the same rewards as the guy who just walks past the park and does nothing. I believe you are going way too far here. I never said that. I don't think ME is the game you want. I want ME not ME Fallout or Elder scrolls style.
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Post by dmc1001 on Nov 3, 2018 20:00:06 GMT
So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck. Endgame is more or less the same. The Reapers are defeated in all instances except Refusal. The Destroy ending can be decent or damaging but it gets the job done. I suppose if you want a wholly different outcome based on your choices, it's going to be a disappointment. If, instead, you play the game for it's own enjoyment - make choices that appeal to you. Are you okay with decisions that kill off your squadmate? Is it worthwhile for you to shoot the VS even if you're romancing them? If Wrex has been your ally all along, do you feel comfortable with stabbing him in the back by pretending to cure the genophage? This is the real stuff of the game. Your choices may not be earthshaking as far as endings go, but you can get enjoyment from how you play. That makes for a different game, regardless of endings.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 3, 2018 21:37:56 GMT
So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck. Endgame is more or less the same. The Reapers are defeated in all instances except Refusal. The Destroy ending can be decent or damaging but it gets the job done. I suppose if you want a wholly different outcome based on your choices, it's going to be a disappointment. If, instead, you play the game for it's own enjoyment - make choices that appeal to you. Are you okay with decisions that kill off your squadmate? Is it worthwhile for you to shoot the VS even if you're romancing them? If Wrex has been your ally all along, do you feel comfortable with stabbing him in the back by pretending to cure the genophage? This is the real stuff of the game. Your choices may not be earthshaking as far as endings go, but you can get enjoyment from how you play. That makes for a different game, regardless of endings.
I'd say in my experience the things people hotly discuss what they did are what you are talking about, and not the endings. I think these things had a much larger impact on the game than red, green, blue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2018 23:06:04 GMT
Endgame is more or less the same. The Reapers are defeated in all instances except Refusal. The Destroy ending can be decent or damaging but it gets the job done. I suppose if you want a wholly different outcome based on your choices, it's going to be a disappointment. If, instead, you play the game for it's own enjoyment - make choices that appeal to you. Are you okay with decisions that kill off your squadmate? Is it worthwhile for you to shoot the VS even if you're romancing them? If Wrex has been your ally all along, do you feel comfortable with stabbing him in the back by pretending to cure the genophage? This is the real stuff of the game. Your choices may not be earthshaking as far as endings go, but you can get enjoyment from how you play. That makes for a different game, regardless of endings.
I'd say in my experience the things people hotly discuss what they did are what you are talking about, and not the endings. I think these things had a much larger impact on the game than red, green, blue.
That's not my experience at all. For years, I've watched numerous threads here and on the old BSN that were originally on virtually any topic devolve into arguments over the ME3 endings. I've seen very few threads "hotly discussing"how it feels to shoot the VS if you've romanced them... and in ME1, if you were trying to romance either Ashley or Kaidan and then left your LI on Virmire and then talked to various NPC's on the ship afterwards, there was not even a single "sorry for your loss, Shepard" from any of them. There is really only one other decision (other than the endings) I see regularly "hotly discussed" here and that is whether or not one cured the genophage and whether or not you wind up shooting Wrex seldom plays a major role in that particularly discussion. There's generally more concern over Mordin's fate than Wrex's.
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Post by ahglock on Nov 3, 2018 23:10:46 GMT
I'd say in my experience the things people hotly discuss what they did are what you are talking about, and not the endings. I think these things had a much larger impact on the game than red, green, blue.
That's not my experience at all. For years, I've watched numerous threads here and on the old BSN that were originally on virtually any topic devolve into arguments over the ME3 endings. I've seen very few threads "hotly discussing"how it feels to shoot the VS if you've romanced them... and in ME1, if you were trying to romance either Ashley or Kaidan and then left your LI on Virmire and then talked to various NPC's on the ship afterwards, there was not even a single "sorry for your loss, Shepard" from any of them. The arguments i've seen about the endings were less about the decision and why you made it but how bad or good they saw the endings in general were. A handful of destroy or bust posts, but why did you kill Wrex in Me1, renegade/paragon choices, ending of ME1 choices and the why you did that I've seen ridiculously long threads on.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 4, 2018 1:14:01 GMT
[But if Legion is gone because you sold it or it died in the mission there is no reason why the Reapers or Geth would build a VI version of Legion to spread the Reaper code. It would be much easier just to build a signal relay. And without EDI or Legion to interact with the Geth Ship the upgraded Geth would be able to stop any organic attempt to shut it down. Because that is how far beyond organic life the likes of EDI or upgraded Geth are in terms of interaction with technology. Without Legion to fully shut down the Dreadnaought it would still be able to fight and would still be able to do damage to the Heavy Fleet. Without Legion there isn't anyone to give a shit about the Geth as 100% of the Geth are taken over by the Reapers and only Legions unique set up allowed him to go against the Reaper control. No Legion to resist and recompile the Reaper code into a harmless upgrade no way to side with the Geth meaning the second the Reaper signal is cut off the Quarians have the advantage to go in guns blazing. Of course, what would have actually happened in that scenario wouldn't have been anything like that. Let's not make a hash of the cause-and-effect here. The technobabble exists in service of the plot, rather than the plot emerging from the tech.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 4, 2018 1:35:04 GMT
I want to be able to go to a children's park in the game...
MODERATOR ADVISORY
This is all getting rather graphic, gothpunkboy89 , so whilst your exuberant delight in the macabre is not expressly prohibited by our rules, can we have a rest for a bit now and put our barf buckets to one side? You've had a lengthy conversation in the thread, I think it would be nice to get a few views on the OP from others, please. Thank you. So I'm getting a warning for doing something not against the rules? I would love to see other people post. They choose not to so how am I getting a warning for replying to someone?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 2:18:44 GMT
That's not my experience at all. For years, I've watched numerous threads here and on the old BSN that were originally on virtually any topic devolve into arguments over the ME3 endings. I've seen very few threads "hotly discussing"how it feels to shoot the VS if you've romanced them... and in ME1, if you were trying to romance either Ashley or Kaidan and then left your LI on Virmire and then talked to various NPC's on the ship afterwards, there was not even a single "sorry for your loss, Shepard" from any of them. The arguments i've seen about the endings were less about the decision and why you made it but how bad or good they saw the endings in general were. A handful of destroy or bust posts, but why did you kill Wrex in Me1, renegade/paragon choices, ending of ME1 choices and the why you did that I've seen ridiculously long threads on. Can you point me to those threads? I've not seen them.
I"ve seen numerous threads asking us which canon ending we would want Bioware to go forward with. Those threads are all about the decisions and why you made them... not about how good or bad all the endings were in general. There is one currently running right in this section. I've also seen several long threads discussing philosophy regarding the endings.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 4, 2018 2:56:32 GMT
Source? If you think it is a bad idea you need better reasoning then no I want to be able to go to a children's park in the game and cut off puppies heads and then throw their lifeless blood soaked corpse at children. And still get the same rewards as the guy who just walks past the park and does nothing. I believe you are going way too far here. I never said that. I don't think ME is the game you want. I want ME not ME Fallout or Elder scrolls style. But you did. So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck. You would have to be that absurd example I made to lose more then 50% of the game. Literally if Legion is dead you miss out on 1 mission into the Geth Collective. If you killed the Queen you literally miss out on 1 mission. If you killed both Wrex and Mordin then you lose out on the most. There are 19 main missions in ME3. Worse case set up with my examples you would miss out on 5 main missions at best. Though ones like Turian patrol, Rachni, and saving the Admiral are more like side missions then main story as they really don't advance the plot all that much. Killing a shop keep and not being able to sell stuff in a town anymore or a quest giving NPC isn't what makes a Fallout/ES game what they are. It is a tiny fraction of what you can do in those games that show at least a small consequence to your actions in the game. But if it was what made those games then maybe BioWare should implement it given by 2014 Skyrim has sold 20 million units and Fallout 4 has sold around 15 million units in 2017. Which in each case each game out sold ME 3 and Andromeda combined. Skyrim got a remaster to current gen consoles and even an Amazon Echo port of the game. Mean while the odds of getting a remaster of the OT are not very likely. It is a complete unknown if ME:A will get a sequel and even BioWare the company could be on the chopping block if Anthem doesn't perform well enough for EA. Joining the literal grave yard full of companies that EA has purchased then liquidated after their corporate meddling ruined the best aspects of those companies.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 4, 2018 3:24:24 GMT
I think the main point is how Bioware likes to tell their stories. You are always the grand hero who saves the world from some pending doom or evil. Compare that to games like TW3 or AC: Odyssey where you are not the grand hero saving the world but rather just another character trying to be successful in your own contained story.
When I played through the ME trilogy and DA games, it is clear that the games were MEANT for you to play as the good person. You can make all the good choices and you will always get the best outcome. How realistic is that? KOTOR 2 was a better example of a game where some bad choices led to good outcomes and good choices led to bad outcomes.
In the end, the industry has surpassed Bioware in choices in videogames. Ubisoft in their first attempt at adding dialog choice to games has more depth and grey areas to the choices than all other Bioware games combined. Even Horizon Zero dawn was better at actually making you think through your choices cause unlike all Bioware games, the good choice does not always yield the best outcome.
Example, in ACO, if I choose to let the family go that had the plague instead of kill them, later on they will spread the plague to the rest of the island. Thus a good choice led to a bad outcome. If ACO was a Bioware game, letting that family go would have saw them later in the all cured and healthy and they thank you for not saving them. Thus the good choice led to the best outcome.
The industry is moving at a fast pace and Bioware cannot keep up. And dont even let me start at Bioware's poor attempt and open world settings....
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 4, 2018 3:31:04 GMT
[But if Legion is gone because you sold it or it died in the mission there is no reason why the Reapers or Geth would build a VI version of Legion to spread the Reaper code. It would be much easier just to build a signal relay. And without EDI or Legion to interact with the Geth Ship the upgraded Geth would be able to stop any organic attempt to shut it down. Because that is how far beyond organic life the likes of EDI or upgraded Geth are in terms of interaction with technology. Without Legion to fully shut down the Dreadnaought it would still be able to fight and would still be able to do damage to the Heavy Fleet. Without Legion there isn't anyone to give a shit about the Geth as 100% of the Geth are taken over by the Reapers and only Legions unique set up allowed him to go against the Reaper control. No Legion to resist and recompile the Reaper code into a harmless upgrade no way to side with the Geth meaning the second the Reaper signal is cut off the Quarians have the advantage to go in guns blazing. Of course, what would have actually happened in that scenario wouldn't have been anything like that. Let's not make a hash of the cause-and-effect here. The technobabble exists in service of the plot, rather than the plot emerging from the tech. Only in bad writing. In good writing when dealing with an established universe they use the established technology to build the story around it or utilize those established limitations of technology in the story. Star Wars EU is a good example as the good stories use established technology and limitations to build the stories around it. And if/when they create new content they remain consistent with it across the entire story ark. Case in point the introduction of the Yuuzhan Vong they remain consistent in how their technology works, how it counters the current technology across all 5 or 6 books that their invasion takes place in. Dovin Basal's are how the Vong propel and protect their star fighters. They are established to be able to absorb and deflect laser fire and missiles with miniature gravity wells that it forms. It can also damage the shield of craft if they get to close by exerting the gravity field.
To counter it they use existing technology expanding area of effect of the inertial compensator to cover the shield generator counter at the shield draining effect and decrease the fire power of the lasers to increase the rapid fire capabilities to over whelm the Dovin Basal's and exhaust it to blow up the Vong Coral Skippers. They don't magically create a new star ship weapon or create some magic new technology or find out they can actually reverse the polarity of the shots to damage them. The writer actually took established technology in the SW universe and how it worked and used that to build how the Vong would counter it and then continued to use the established technology well within realistic set ups to counter them.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 4, 2018 4:44:02 GMT
*shrugs* Sure, you can do better than Bio did.
My point was that the dreadnought sequence would not have played out the way you said it would have even if Bio had accepted your argument about the Legion VI, and you know it. Instead, the dreadnought would have had some other vulnerability if it existed at all. Legion would have been revealed some other way if still alive, but wouldn't have been critical to the mission, the way Grissom Academy plays more or less the same even if Jack's dead.
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Post by smilesja on Nov 4, 2018 16:30:34 GMT
I think the main point is how Bioware likes to tell their stories. You are always the grand hero who saves the world from some pending doom or evil. Compare that to games like TW3 or AC: Odyssey where you are not the grand hero saving the world but rather just another character trying to be successful in your own contained story. When I played through the ME trilogy and DA games, it is clear that the games were MEANT for you to play as the good person. You can make all the good choices and you will always get the best outcome. How realistic is that? KOTOR 2 was a better example of a game where some bad choices led to good outcomes and good choices led to bad outcomes. In the end, the industry has surpassed Bioware in choices in videogames. Ubisoft in their first attempt at adding dialog choice to games has more depth and grey areas to the choices than all other Bioware games combined. Even Horizon Zero dawn was better at actually making you think through your choices cause unlike all Bioware games, the good choice does not always yield the best outcome. Example, in ACO, if I choose to let the family go that had the plague instead of kill them, later on they will spread the plague to the rest of the island. Thus a good choice led to a bad outcome. If ACO was a Bioware game, letting that family go would have saw them later in the all cured and healthy and they thank you for not saving them. Thus the good choice led to the best outcome. The industry is moving at a fast pace and Bioware cannot keep up. And dont even let me start at Bioware's poor attempt and open world settings.... Played Dragon Age 2? That game is closer to what you feel is a more “realistic” setting. Besides games such as Orgins had plenty of their grey moments.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 4, 2018 17:15:26 GMT
I think the main point is how Bioware likes to tell their stories. You are always the grand hero who saves the world from some pending doom or evil. Compare that to games like TW3 or AC: Odyssey where you are not the grand hero saving the world but rather just another character trying to be successful in your own contained story. When I played through the ME trilogy and DA games, it is clear that the games were MEANT for you to play as the good person. You can make all the good choices and you will always get the best outcome. How realistic is that? KOTOR 2 was a better example of a game where some bad choices led to good outcomes and good choices led to bad outcomes. In the end, the industry has surpassed Bioware in choices in videogames. Ubisoft in their first attempt at adding dialog choice to games has more depth and grey areas to the choices than all other Bioware games combined. Even Horizon Zero dawn was better at actually making you think through your choices cause unlike all Bioware games, the good choice does not always yield the best outcome. Example, in ACO, if I choose to let the family go that had the plague instead of kill them, later on they will spread the plague to the rest of the island. Thus a good choice led to a bad outcome. If ACO was a Bioware game, letting that family go would have saw them later in the all cured and healthy and they thank you for not saving them. Thus the good choice led to the best outcome. The industry is moving at a fast pace and Bioware cannot keep up. And dont even let me start at Bioware's poor attempt and open world settings.... First that's spoilers though minor. Second that's not the best choice btw. Hence the consequence. Btw bioware games have those too. Tell me if that affects the ending. I'll wait.
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Post by majesticjazz on Nov 4, 2018 18:03:40 GMT
I think the main point is how Bioware likes to tell their stories. You are always the grand hero who saves the world from some pending doom or evil. Compare that to games like TW3 or AC: Odyssey where you are not the grand hero saving the world but rather just another character trying to be successful in your own contained story. When I played through the ME trilogy and DA games, it is clear that the games were MEANT for you to play as the good person. You can make all the good choices and you will always get the best outcome. How realistic is that? KOTOR 2 was a better example of a game where some bad choices led to good outcomes and good choices led to bad outcomes. In the end, the industry has surpassed Bioware in choices in videogames. Ubisoft in their first attempt at adding dialog choice to games has more depth and grey areas to the choices than all other Bioware games combined. Even Horizon Zero dawn was better at actually making you think through your choices cause unlike all Bioware games, the good choice does not always yield the best outcome. Example, in ACO, if I choose to let the family go that had the plague instead of kill them, later on they will spread the plague to the rest of the island. Thus a good choice led to a bad outcome. If ACO was a Bioware game, letting that family go would have saw them later in the all cured and healthy and they thank you for not saving them. Thus the good choice led to the best outcome. The industry is moving at a fast pace and Bioware cannot keep up. And dont even let me start at Bioware's poor attempt and open world settings.... First that's spoilers though minor. Second that's not the best choice btw. Hence the consequence. Btw bioware games have those too. Tell me if that affects the ending. I'll wait. This isnt about choices not affecting endings cause all Bioware games has endings that are based on the choices you made. This thread is more about the best outcomes always coming from the "morally good" choices. Maybe I am forgetting something but I do not remember when a morally good choice in a Bioware game led to the worst outcome. In contrast, I do not remember a morally bad choice in a Bioware game leading to the best outcome.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 4, 2018 19:20:47 GMT
Well, if you're going straight-up deontologist, then Refuse is the most moral ME3 final choice, and that doesn't go too well.
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Post by river82 on Nov 4, 2018 20:16:30 GMT
The same goes for being morally abhorrent. I don't think constantly picking the morally evil or selfish option should inevitably lead you down the path of having the worst ending ever. Going back to that AC:O example I gave, maybe choosing the other option is the better outcome for everyone, even if it is seen as morally reprehensible by others; in the game. One of Bioware's better games was KOTOR, and the dark side ending was better than the light side ending. Which is how it should be because evil is best :3
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Post by ahglock on Nov 4, 2018 21:02:39 GMT
The arguments i've seen about the endings were less about the decision and why you made it but how bad or good they saw the endings in general were. A handful of destroy or bust posts, but why did you kill Wrex in Me1, renegade/paragon choices, ending of ME1 choices and the why you did that I've seen ridiculously long threads on. Can you point me to those threads? I've not seen them.
I"ve seen numerous threads asking us which canon ending we would want Bioware to go forward with. Those threads are all about the decisions and why you made them... not about how good or bad all the endings were in general. There is one currently running right in this section. I've also seen several long threads discussing philosophy regarding the endings.
The game has been done for what 6+ years or so, the range of what people are still upset enough to talk about is pretty small and in context of a MW game for the next game its almost the only thing to discuss which skews current topics. I'm relatively new to these boards, I was mainly talking about the original bioware boards. Discussions on the genophage or who you killed at Virmire would go on for hundreds of pages get closed by a moderator then start up again a day later. The discussions on the endings were almost entirely about them being lame or not, and post EC did the EC make it less lame or not. But even now in the mass effect trilogy general discussion there are a bunch of threads that have nothing to do with the endings.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 7, 2018 15:59:08 GMT
*shrugs* Sure, you can do better than Bio did. My point was that the dreadnought sequence would not have played out the way you said it would have even if Bio had accepted your argument about the Legion VI, and you know it. Instead, the dreadnought would have had some other vulnerability if it existed at all. Legion would have been revealed some other way if still alive, but wouldn't have been critical to the mission, the way Grissom Academy plays more or less the same even if Jack's dead.
No it played out that way because BioWare has choosen to take the path that there are no wrong choices. And I don't just mean that in a morally justifiable way I mean literally. Lose Mordin and you have Not Mordin show up in ME 3. Lose Tali and surprise you have another Quarian fill her shoes. Lose Leigion and magically a back up copy of legion shows up. Kill the Rachni Queen and boom still one magically waiting for you. Save Ashley over Kaiden well it doesn't matter that she is a second rate solider who blames hated for her grand father for her lack of promotions. She still becomes a Specter anyways. Kill Wrex the disillusioned but smart and well meaning Krogan? Doesn't' matter because Wreav his brother is able to do literally the exact same thing as Wrex only he is slightly more angry.
Literally all roads lead back to the same point and choice is doesn't have an effect. Picking saint or satan path all leads back to the same thing. Choice is almost no existent and morality doesn't exist because it isn't just why you did something it is the effect. Spiderman's origin story is best example of morality and choice being tied together. Peter's morally justified action of not stopping the thief resulted in Uncle Ben dying. His death is what ultimately leads Peter to becoming Spider man. If BioWare made that then it wouldn't have mattered if Peter stopped the thief because Uncle Ben would have been shot by his off screen accomplice anyways. And Peter becomes Spiderman regardless of his choice making the whole sequence meaningless. Without that choice Peter makes he basically just has Batman's origin story.
It very easily could play out that way. I was using existing story and existing build of the game with small changes to show how choices could have impacted the game in slightly more meaningful ways then simply talking. Because the initial reply to my statement was along the line of how would they have had time to implement that and what would you have cut from the game to allow it to happen. So my choices and sequences I set up in my hypothetical set up would be small choices that would require minimal time to implement requiring nothing be cut form the game but still showing consequences for your choices. Now obviously if you rewrote the entire game you could have better choices and effects but the point was not to rewrite it. But to show how choices could be given consequences with the existing game and existing story line requiring minimal changes to achieve it in game. Mostly by taking the easy route which BioWare prefers by just restricting access to game content and/or providing reduced rewards/buffing enemy NPCs. Which again BioWare is more then aware of given the MP side and the whole shield gate issue both in story and particularly problematic in MP side.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 7, 2018 23:07:31 GMT
*shrugs* Sure, you can do better than Bio did. My point was that the dreadnought sequence would not have played out the way you said it would have even if Bio had accepted your argument about the Legion VI, and you know it. Instead, the dreadnought would have had some other vulnerability if it existed at all. Legion would have been revealed some other way if still alive, but wouldn't have been critical to the mission, the way Grissom Academy plays more or less the same even if Jack's dead. No it played out that way because BioWare has choosen to take the path that there are no wrong choices. And I don't just mean that in a morally justifiable way I mean literally. Lose Mordin and you have Not Mordin show up in ME 3. Lose Tali and surprise you have another Quarian fill her shoes. Lose Leigion and magically a back up copy of legion shows up. Kill the Rachni Queen and boom still one magically waiting for you. Save Ashley over Kaiden well it doesn't matter that she is a second rate solider who blames hated for her grand father for her lack of promotions. She still becomes a Specter anyways. Kill Wrex the disillusioned but smart and well meaning Krogan? Doesn't' matter because Wreav his brother is able to do literally the exact same thing as Wrex only he is slightly more angry. I'm having trouble with a couple of the basic premises here. Legion's ME2 death can not be properly described as a choice; Shepard never chooses to kill him. Metagaming runs aside, when Legion dies, it can be either a non-forseeable result of some RP choices, or outright bad gameplay. And Legion's death does come with a penalty already. If either Tali or Legion is dead, the optimal result at Rannoch cannot be achieved.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 8, 2018 1:45:06 GMT
No it played out that way because BioWare has choosen to take the path that there are no wrong choices. And I don't just mean that in a morally justifiable way I mean literally. Lose Mordin and you have Not Mordin show up in ME 3. Lose Tali and surprise you have another Quarian fill her shoes. Lose Leigion and magically a back up copy of legion shows up. Kill the Rachni Queen and boom still one magically waiting for you. Save Ashley over Kaiden well it doesn't matter that she is a second rate solider who blames hated for her grand father for her lack of promotions. She still becomes a Specter anyways. Kill Wrex the disillusioned but smart and well meaning Krogan? Doesn't' matter because Wreav his brother is able to do literally the exact same thing as Wrex only he is slightly more angry. I'm having trouble with a couple of the basic premises here. Legion's ME2 death can not be properly described as a choice; Shepard never chooses to kill him. Metagaming runs aside, when Legion dies, it can be either a non-forseeable result of some RP choices, or outright bad gameplay. And Legion's death does come with a penalty already. If either Tali or Legion is dead, the optimal result at Rannoch cannot be achieved. When Legion dies it is because you choose not to complete loyalty missions, you choose the wrong character for an event (which are pretty obvious the correct ones) or you choose to weaken the party that stays behind because of the above choices. There are conscious choices you make and conscious choices your Shepard makes depending on the RP.
You need a bit more then just Legion and Tali alive to choose the truce option. Which is why it is actually a good set up because if you make different choices like not having Tali share data with Leigon and choosing to destroy the Geth in Legion's loyalty mission you can still be denied that ending. Now granted the truce ending doesn't add much to the game besides a few lines of dialogue. With most of the impact coming from people who try to point out the truce to disprove the Catalyst's assertions without taking into account and very hesitant to address the fact without the Reaper threat facing total extinction to both groups and Shepard forcefully welding them together the truce would never have been made. But regardless of Legion or Tali being alive the game literally plays out the exact same right up to the end choice. And even then the end choice remains the same effect. In all 4 possible variations all the missions play out the same and in all 4 you get the same choice to pick one side or the other. Only 1 variation requiring fairly specific choices be made opens up a 3rd possibility that is still only an option. Because you can still choose to side with the Geth over Quarians even if you meet the requirements for truce.
The fact you need to make specific choices that have consequences is why I don't change anything for the Truce set up. I only address the set up when one or the other character is dead because that would alter how events take place. Because other wise all 4 possible set ups play the exact same regardless of your actions.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 8, 2018 6:38:02 GMT
Yes, choosing not to complete all the loyalty missions was the RP move I referred to above. Shepard doesn't know that the Collectors will wait patiently for him to complete all the LMs before they strike again, since he doesn't know that he's a character in a video game. Enemies waiting for the player to finish whatever he wants to do is one of those bad things about traditional RPG design. ME1 is far worse in this regard. ME3 gets around it, since whatever Shepard does, he can't get to the final battle any faster than the Crucible can be built. On the Dragon Age side, DA:O is actually pretty good, since the non-optional content is pretty trivial, and can be hit while travelling to important mandatory zones, DA2's plot structure hides the plot from the player most of the time and this obscures the issue, and DA:I is awful, as are most OW games.
I'd say that not having to exterminate an allied species counts as a pretty big factor. But like I said upthread, I'm not particularly concerned with how this shows up in gameplay. If I believe in the reality of the game-world, then this level of consequence matters, gameplay or not.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 9, 2018 20:47:05 GMT
Yes, choosing not to complete all the loyalty missions was the RP move I referred to above. Shepard doesn't know that the Collectors will wait patiently for him to complete all the LMs before they strike again, since he doesn't know that he's a character in a video game. Enemies waiting for the player to finish whatever he wants to do is one of those bad things about traditional RPG design. ME1 is far worse in this regard. ME3 gets around it, since whatever Shepard does, he can't get to the final battle any faster than the Crucible can be built. On the Dragon Age side, DA:O is actually pretty good, since the non-optional content is pretty trivial, and can be hit while travelling to important mandatory zones, DA2's plot structure hides the plot from the player most of the time and this obscures the issue, and DA:I is awful, as are most OW games. I'd say that not having to exterminate an allied species counts as a pretty big factor. But like I said upthread, I'm not particularly concerned with how this shows up in gameplay. If I believe in the reality of the game-world, then this level of consequence matters, gameplay or not. No but Shepard does know that he needs his team focused on the mission and not distracted. All the Collectors are doing is collecting people there is no sign of some major offensive they need to stop. Time is not addressed during the events of the game so doing any activity in any order doesn't effect the over all count down. The only urgency that is added to the game is when the crew is kidnapped. An action that is only possible because Shepard makes the most idiotic choice since a guy told a guy with a knife "what are you going to do stab me?" right before he was stabbed. Other then that it is gather and prep for the assault. Now you can make it a rush job with your specific Shepard the same way you can have them agree with TIM's ideas or tell him to get stuffed.
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Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger
N6
At sunrise there is the sunset.
To find the secrets of the universe: Think in terms of energy, frequency & VIBRATION -Nikola Tesla
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
XBL Gamertag: No.
PSN: No
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
NO. NEVER. AGAIN.
No.
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Post by Atemporal Vanguardian-Debugger on Nov 13, 2018 17:34:11 GMT
This is where we need a virtualization environment where we can live out an entire life time in the span of 15 minutes and see the consequences of all actions and remember them when we exit. Then we exit the simulation and enter and take another route. Then exit and enter the simulation again and live out the events in another route yet again. Do that often enough and all outcomes will be known whether good or bad and what may seem good may be bad and what may be bad would be good...
Or you could just read and watch everything that has been made in the past 1000 years or more and remember it all then all would be known and the consequences of the actions taken would be known.
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