Fun vs Realism

You appear to be implying one can not be the other...
Allow me to show you something.

Serza's ArmA 3 Keybinding:

SHIFT+; - Point in 3D
Q - Lean left
E - Lean right
WASD - movement
CTRL+WASD - Full body leaning/shoulder switch
X - Crouch
Y - Prone
R - Reload
F - Switch weapon firing mode/toggle 40mm underslung
1 (above letters) - Switch to Rifle (these days that's the SCAR L w/ EGLM)
2 - Switch to Sidearm
3 - Switch to Launcher (usually AT-4)
G - Quick-throw grenade
SHIFT+G - Grenade throwing mode and aim
Spacebar - Vault/Climb/Drop (contextual Enhanced Movement button)
B - Switch to Binoculars/Rangefinder/Laser Designator (depending on equipped)
Left Windows Key - Interaction (with vehicles and personnel)
CTRL+Left Win - Self-Intearction (Equipment/Medical/Team management)
M - Open map
N - Toggle NODs
K - Compass
SHIFT - Sprint
W+S - Toggle walk
C - Toggle jogging pace (slow jog/fast jog - when rifle is raised, one of them offers you pointing it in front of you)
2x CTRL - Toggle Weapon High Ready/Low Ready
Right mouse button - Tap for sights, hold for zoom
Middle mouse button - quick interaction (doors, vehicle mounting)
CTRL+RMB - Toggle scope/red dot sight (at least the scope I commonly use has a secondary red dot mounted on top)
Side button (#5) - Direct speech (within 3D)
CAPS LOCK - Radio push to talk
CTRL+P - Open Radio (to switch frequencies/settings)

Interaction menu:
Medical
Captivity options (if carrying Cable Ties)
Joining other teams
Passing magazines
Tapping shoulder (or we just say "SET")

Self-Interaction menu:
Medical (self)
- Three different types of bandages are carried, used depending on injuries taken, they are Packing, Elastic and QuikClot
- Splint is usually carried in case of severe appendage injury
- Morphine and Epinephrine autoinjectors
- Surgical Kits
- Blood pressure/Heart rate (BP should be 90-130/60-85 Systolic/Diastolic, Heart Rate as I recall is fine between 60BPM and 130-ish BPM)
Map tools
- Map flashlight
- Drawing
- Distance measuring (requires Mk.I Brain with Math v1.0)
Magazine repacking
Demolitions (only listing the ones I can commonly get my hands on, if I were to list OPFOR booms, we'd be here tomorrow and not done)
- M112 Demolition Block
- M4 Selective Lightweight Attack Munitions
- VS-50 landmine
- M16A1 Bouncing Betty
- M18A1 Claymore
Weapon options
- Barrel switch (on many LMGs and MMGs)
- Barrel temperature check (too hot barrel will cause a jam, unfortunately I don't think they can cook off - maybe in the future!)
Equipment options
- MicroDAGR GPS
- Earplugs/Earpro
- Various bits and pieces of kit I can't even list here because they're not a part of MY job on the field
Attaching options
- IR strobe
- Chemlights (can be thrown or attached to you)

Other possibilities:
- Ammunition types
-- 5.56x45mm NATO - M855A1 Enhanced Penetrator Round, M856A1 Tracer, Mk262 Match round, Mk318 Barrier Penetrator Round
-- 40x46mm Grenade (EGLM/M203) - M433 High Explosive Dual Purpose round, M7xx series flare and smoke rounds (varying colors)
-- 7.62x51mm NATO - M80 Enhanced Penetrator Round, M61 Armor Piercing Round, some Tracer I don't remember because I'm a Grenadier
- Speech adjustment
- Tactical ladders
- Stuff I definitely forgot

Radio screen:
- Frequency adjustment
- Speakers/Headset toggle
- Volume setting
- Additional channel set up (AN/PRC-152 in the game supports nine frequencies at one time, and I think the real deal is much more capable)


I had to master all of this and then some tactics (DO NOT speak about CQB or I'll go off again) and SOPs. Only then I became proficient in ArmA 3. Unfortunately, ArmA 2 was EVEN MORE HARDCORE in terms of explosives/EOD work. A3 just gives you a good ol' menu, A2 put a 2D model of the explosive on your screen and told you to have fun setting it up by clicking various parts of it you'd have to adjust in reality. I miss that. (Also, Anti-Tamper is not simulated in A3, cue all the salt in the world - I USED THAT ANTI-TAMPER TO MY ADVANTAGE, GAME)

I'm also pretty damn hyped about this beast here:


Yes. That is just the engine start and taxiing for a nine minute video, and he himself admits he missed a couple steps because they are not mandatory.

I picked realism.

Not because I’d actually choose realism over fun, but because I reject the implication that they are two ends of the same scale (or for that matter the fact you didn’t even include a “balanced” or “mixture” option).

I think you can have realistic mechanics that are fun or not fun, and unrealistic mechanics being fun or not fun, and everything in between.

So if they are not the same scale, I’d usually take realistic over unrealistic (in the context of the game world).

As for your examples, I’ve played neither yet, so I can only guess.

I think the idea in Red Dead 2 is to make hunting a thing that requires some thought/skill/effort/preparation. So you go out on a hunting trip and take your time bagging a couple of good quality hides, and presumably are suitably rewarded for your work.

I don’t know how much fun that is in practice, but I appreciate the thought behind it. I could well prefer it to the more common practice of riding between locations and blasting away at 20 animals that happen to cross your path and skinning them for chump change just because “loot everything”.

Depends on the game for me. For rdr2 how 'realistic' it is and how long things take was by design, it's meant to be a slow down and take your time kind of game. Just like other games work everything to speed and rush-rush.

I love rdr2, very few complaints from me. But that doesn't mean I can't or don't enjoy a faster pace streamlined and simplified game too.
So for me, both variations of pace are a lot of fun.

Speaking of WWII shooters...



And a soon-to-be-fully-released addition to that:

Civilization V: Both fun and realistic

Civilization VI: Neither fun nor realistic

Depends on the game. In RDR I'd find realism pointless and grindy - in DCS I expect high level of realism from flight model down to cluster bomb discharge and damage model
. damage model in DCS is kinda lacking for me taste actually, but hey, who got time to worry about that when you're busy calculating aircraft mass for the vertical carrier landing?

Is called "sim" for a reason. If I dont play sim, I dont look for sim.

According to an sickeningly amount of gamers, realism and fun are not as important as white-knighting the developer's flaws.

Why are fun and realism mutually exclusive? Games like Red Orchestra and ARMA thrive on being as realistic as possible, and are extremely fun. Activities like paintball and airsoft in the real world are fun games that make extensive use of realistic combat scenarios and experiences. Oftentimes, enhancing the realism of something also enhances the fun factor. It only really depends on how the game in question handles whatever mechanic is being discussed.