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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 2:55:52 GMT
That's just your assertion that it's the only explanation. Only way to know for sure is measure Earth curvature, simple and leaves no room for assumptions. Oh, so now you require a specific piece of evidence? You've never explained how the same stars are visible from all around the southern hemisphere all at once. The flat earth model handles the northern sky just fine, but the southern sky makes no sense with a flat earth. Hold on, one thing at a time. Your first assertion about sun lighting underneath the clouds was an affirming the consequent fallacy, in that you claimed "If sphere Earth then sun light under clouds. Sunlight under clouds therefore sphere Earth." But how can you prove it's the only explanation? Now this doesn't necessary have to be what's actually going on, but it is a replication of another method possible. And if there's another method possible to achieve same result, then you're assumption that only sphere Earth can achieve this is wrong.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 3:07:00 GMT
Doesn't add up. There should just be a big red button at NASA to press that brings up a 3D hologram model Star Wars style showing you visually what's going on at any time. Instead we get some dude hitting the books on past eclipses. How doesn't it add up? Also you're arguing from incredulity and ignorance again. It's not "some dude hitting the books on past eclipses," it's several people involved in writing the Canons of solar and lunar eclipses based on models that have proven exceedingly accurate in not only matching up with all past recorded eclipses but has accurately predicted all eclipses since the time of publication as well. If you think they missed one completely or even made a prediction that was outside the error level stated in the papers (they're all there, freely accessible to read btw) then my friend you are about to get very famous once you publish verifiable data contrary to their model. You'll be the man that toppled VSOP- instant astronomical celebrity overnight. And NASA is a bureaucratic institution, if you think they have time or money for control centers filled with Star Wars holograms, that's your issue and not theirs. I can't tell if you're making a joke or actually using that as some kind of evidence of their supposed malfeasance. You took Star Wars analogy the wrong way. It's just an elaborate way to explain that we should have a small portion of the local bodies in space 3D modeled in a computer program with all their speeds/direction and a fast forward/rewind feature to view them in any year we desire.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 3:34:01 GMT
How doesn't it add up? Also you're arguing from incredulity and ignorance again. It's not "some dude hitting the books on past eclipses," it's several people involved in writing the Canons of solar and lunar eclipses based on models that have proven exceedingly accurate in not only matching up with all past recorded eclipses but has accurately predicted all eclipses since the time of publication as well. If you think they missed one completely or even made a prediction that was outside the error level stated in the papers (they're all there, freely accessible to read btw) then my friend you are about to get very famous once you publish verifiable data contrary to their model. You'll be the man that toppled VSOP- instant astronomical celebrity overnight. And NASA is a bureaucratic institution, if you think they have time or money for control centers filled with Star Wars holograms, that's your issue and not theirs. I can't tell if you're making a joke or actually using that as some kind of evidence of their supposed malfeasance. You took Star Wars analogy the wrong way. It's just an elaborate way to explain that we should have a small portion of the local bodies in space 3D modeled in a computer program with all their speeds/direction and a fast forward/rewind feature to view them in any year we desire. We do. Have you not ever seen Stellarium? I highly suggest you grab it, it's free and open source. It might be quite illuminating.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 4:18:15 GMT
You took Star Wars analogy the wrong way. It's just an elaborate way to explain that we should have a small portion of the local bodies in space 3D modeled in a computer program with all their speeds/direction and a fast forward/rewind feature to view them in any year we desire. We do. Have you not ever seen Stellarium? I highly suggest you grab it, it's free and open source. It might be quite illuminating. And we can be certain it's a perfect model without any issues? As I recall hearing some issues about it. For now quickly before ending evening, found a quick anomaly pointed out by someone; Checked the two comments under video and seen no answer to his query there. So as is, Stellearium seems to be cheating by slowing and speeding up the moon orbit to make it fit observed reality.
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Post by dmc1001 on Feb 1, 2019 15:34:52 GMT
Nice to see you back from the Anthem Demo good times. Was thinking for this upcoming open to public weekend that you, Space Cowboy , dmc1001 and I as the most prominent in this thread get together for a match or two. I'm probably never going to play Anthem. Also, I suck at MP which is why I like SP better.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 15:50:42 GMT
Nice to see you back from the Anthem Demo good times. Was thinking for this upcoming open to public weekend that you, Space Cowboy , dmc1001 and I as the most prominent in this thread get together for a match or two. I'm probably never going to play Anthem. Also, I suck at MP which is why I like SP better. I say it's worth a try since the demo is free. And more importantly, we can maybe chat about flat Earth, Mass Effect, BioWare, Stars Wars or anything really. Though can safely assume we all love sci-fi. Have just added my Origin & PSN tags in profile, so anyone from this thread is welcome to add (though for PSN will only be briefly trying to check PS4 version of Anthem. Mostly on PC these days with Andromeda & ME3 mp. PS4 is mostly for Bloodborne).
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 16:37:23 GMT
We do. Have you not ever seen Stellarium? I highly suggest you grab it, it's free and open source. It might be quite illuminating. And we can be certain it's a perfect model without any issues? As I recall hearing some issues about it. For now quickly before ending evening, found a quick anomaly pointed out by someone; Checked the two comments under video and seen no answer to his query there. So as is, Stellearium seems to be cheating by slowing and speeding up the moon orbit to make it fit observed reality. Wow that is quite the leap you've made. I'd say it's more likely just displaying the moon's libration and it looks like a speed up/slow down due to the combination of viewpoint lock and azimuthal mount. Stellarium is a sky view simulator - it's rendering the sky based on how it would look to an Earth-based observer. There are other simulators that allow you to take a viewpoint from anywhere else in the solar system but I don't know of any personally that are using VSOP87 and ELP 2000-82B. They're probably just doing purely Keplerian orbits. I think Space Engine is actually using models because I know the dev wanted to match known ephemerides. (edit after 5 minutes of playing around) Yeah, if you lock viewpoint to the moon you can see it's the apparent change in velocity across the sky coincides perfectly with libration. I made a video for you. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libration
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 17:50:11 GMT
If it's main focus is skyview from Earth, I'm curious how it would show a moon eclipse due to seeing something interesting on a recent flat Earth Debate that Sleeping Warrior brought up; Timestamp link is here in case playback is disabled. An interesting comment under the video too;
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 18:13:26 GMT
Man you gotta stop listening to these zero information "debates". I try a listen every time you post those fucking idiots and I can't last more than 5 minutes without bursting a blood vessel due to screaming TRY GOOGLING YOU CLOWN! The moon does turn into a very thin crescent right after the moment of a new moon, but it is too small to see due to being washed out by the sun. It will only be out during the daytime, so you need to be very skilled in observation and photography to capture it. I've posted about this before! Thierry Legault holds the record for earliest crescent moon photography for this photo - taken at the exact moment of a new moon. www.astrophoto.fr/new_moon_2013july8.html
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 18:33:40 GMT
Man you gotta stop listening to these zero information "debates". I try a listen every time you post those fucking idiots and I can't last more than 5 minutes without bursting a blood vessel due to screaming TRY GOOGLING YOU CLOWN! The moon does turn into a very thin crescent right after the moment of a new moon, but it is too small to see due to being washed out by the sun. It will only be out during the daytime, so you need to be very skilled in observation and photography to capture it. I've posted about this before! Thierry Legault holds the record for earliest crescent moon photography for this photo - taken at the exact moment of a new moon. www.astrophoto.fr/new_moon_2013july8.htmlDebates are good, how arguments are refined or shown the error of your ways. If something is wrong, you can bet a baller will jump all over it to show you where you're wrong. And this is good.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 18:40:34 GMT
Man you gotta stop listening to these zero information "debates". I try a listen every time you post those fucking idiots and I can't last more than 5 minutes without bursting a blood vessel due to screaming TRY GOOGLING YOU CLOWN! The moon does turn into a very thin crescent right after the moment of a new moon, but it is too small to see due to being washed out by the sun. It will only be out during the daytime, so you need to be very skilled in observation and photography to capture it. I've posted about this before! Thierry Legault holds the record for earliest crescent moon photography for this photo - taken at the exact moment of a new moon. www.astrophoto.fr/new_moon_2013july8.htmlDebates are good, how arguments are refined or shown the error of your ways. If something is wrong, you can bet a baller will jump all over it to show you where you're wrong. And this is good. Like you guys ever accept being shown that you're wrong? Every piece of evidence is faked, so you claim. Or when that doesn't work, you just ignore and move on. That's not debate, that's FE'ers flinging monkey shit at the walls until the zookeepers just get tired of cleaning it off.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 18:52:29 GMT
Debates are good, how arguments are refined or shown the error of your ways. If something is wrong, you can bet a baller will jump all over it to show you where you're wrong. And this is good. Like you guys ever accept being shown that you're wrong? Every piece of evidence is faked, so you claim. Or when that doesn't work, you just ignore and move on. That's not debate, that's FE'ers flinging monkey shit at the walls until the zookeepers just get tired of cleaning it off. Yes, there's been concessions.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Feb 1, 2019 19:10:34 GMT
Debates are good, how arguments are refined or shown the error of your ways. If something is wrong, you can bet a baller will jump all over it to show you where you're wrong. And this is good. Like you guys ever accept being shown that you're wrong? Every piece of evidence is faked, so you claim. Or when that doesn't work, you just ignore and move on. That's not debate, that's FE'ers flinging monkey shit at the walls until the zookeepers just get tired of cleaning it off. I would personally say that FE's are like monkeys that paint crude pictures on the walls with their own crap.
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Feb 1, 2019 20:15:19 GMT
Oh, so now you require a specific piece of evidence? You've never explained how the same stars are visible from all around the southern hemisphere all at once. The flat earth model handles the northern sky just fine, but the southern sky makes no sense with a flat earth. Hold on, one thing at a time. Your first assertion about sun lighting underneath the clouds was an affirming the consequent fallacy, in that you claimed "If sphere Earth then sun light under clouds. Sunlight under clouds therefore sphere Earth." But how can you prove it's the only explanation? Now this doesn't necessary have to be what's actually going on, but it is a replication of another method possible. And if there's another method possible to achieve same result, then you're assumption that only sphere Earth can achieve this is wrong. You do the same thing with your flat earth assertions when you claim it as your default position. But fine, I didn't prove the globe. But I proved that the sun does go below the clouds, which is incompatible with your flat earth model. Just like the stars in the southern sky do. And that picture of Baja you posted where you can clearly see the curvature of the cloud layer. Your faith in the earth being flat flies in the face of mountains of evidence. I'm done here. You can believe the world is flat all you want, but it's a belief entirely unsupported by evidence.
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Post by Wilding on Feb 1, 2019 21:14:42 GMT
why do people keep on falling for this troll?
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Post by Sundance31us on Feb 1, 2019 21:17:38 GMT
why do people keep on falling for this troll? They know...they're just bored.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 1, 2019 21:18:26 GMT
Hold on, one thing at a time. Your first assertion about sun lighting underneath the clouds was an affirming the consequent fallacy, in that you claimed "If sphere Earth then sun light under clouds. Sunlight under clouds therefore sphere Earth." But how can you prove it's the only explanation? Now this doesn't necessary have to be what's actually going on, but it is a replication of another method possible. And if there's another method possible to achieve same result, then you're assumption that only sphere Earth can achieve this is wrong. But fine, I didn't prove the globe. But I proved that the sun does go below the clouds, which is incompatible with your flat earth model. Doesn't prove that either. Affirming the consequent formal logical fallacies are proof of nothing and even provided a visual demonstration that falsifies your fallacious claim.
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Post by Wilding on Feb 1, 2019 21:21:10 GMT
why do people keep on falling for this troll? They know...they're just bored. Do not feed the trolls, the scrolls said, do not read the trolls...
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 2, 2019 0:33:19 GMT
why do people keep on falling for this troll? They know...they're just bored. Pretty much exactly this. We have Anthem, a game that has slightly divided our standard fanbase and is exciting to maybe 1/3 of our regulars, and I think that's generous. We have no Mass Effect anywhere near on the horizon. We have a Dragon Age that is still pretty unknown to us and remote. The last game they released had a mixed reception at best. We can agree on that. So... Idle hands.... Devil... Something something
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 2, 2019 2:34:35 GMT
Live flat Earth Debate hosted by Red Pill Philosophy. Lots of ballers. Watch on YT to see live chat.
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Sylvius the Mad
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Post by Sylvius the Mad on Feb 2, 2019 5:03:16 GMT
But fine, I didn't prove the globe. But I proved that the sun does go below the clouds, which is incompatible with your flat earth model. Doesn't prove that either. Affirming the consequent formal logical fallacies are proof of nothing and even provided a visual demonstration that falsifies your fallacious claim. Stars. In the southern sky. You keep avoiding that one.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 2, 2019 13:11:33 GMT
Doesn't prove that either. Affirming the consequent formal logical fallacies are proof of nothing and even provided a visual demonstration that falsifies your fallacious claim. Stars. In the southern sky. You keep avoiding that one. Another affirming the consequent fallacy. "If on a sphere, then southern hemisphere star rotations. Southern hemisphere star rotations, therefore on a sphere."
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 2, 2019 19:14:35 GMT
Stars. In the southern sky. You keep avoiding that one. Another affirming the consequent fallacy. "If on a sphere, then southern hemisphere star rotations. Southern hemisphere star rotations, therefore on a sphere." THey are different stars from the north though, and the stars rotate around a different spot in the sky, from the north.
How's Anthem? I played a bit, finished the missions.
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 2, 2019 20:22:34 GMT
Another affirming the consequent fallacy. "If on a sphere, then southern hemisphere star rotations. Southern hemisphere star rotations, therefore on a sphere." THey are different stars from the north though, and the stars rotate around a different spot in the sky, from the north.
How's Anthem? I played a bit, finished the missions.
Doesn't matter, it's an affirming the consequent. "If Santa Claus is real, then presents under tree. Presents under tree therefore Santa Claus is real." Well the Anthem demo is just one big tease. But fun to smoke some herb and play music over top some flat Earth debates. Currently listening to the rest of the Red Pill Philosophy flat Earth Debate. At the moment I'm just enjoying exploring in free play imagining how nice it would be to have full game. But free play is nice so far because can just play on my own and own pace whenever I want. Why, how are your thoughts on the game so far? Think Anthem could turn into something awesome? It's something I've never experienced anything like and can imagine a lot of people getting attached to it.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 3, 2019 15:23:54 GMT
THey are different stars from the north though, and the stars rotate around a different spot in the sky, from the north.
How's Anthem? I played a bit, finished the missions.
Doesn't matter, it's an affirming the consequent. "If Santa Claus is real, then presents under tree. Presents under tree therefore Santa Claus is real." It doesn't have to be able to formally prove the Earth is round to be a part of a body of evidence that it is so. Relying on any one piece as proof might be logically fallacious while considering the evidence in toto is not. However any evidence that directly contradicts the conclusion is sufficient evidence to refute the claim. For example in court the prosecution might be building a case that Joe murdered Kevin, and in order to convince the jury beyond a reasonable doubt they are trying to establish the trifecta of Means, Motive and Opportunity. The prosecutor points out that Kevin was murdered with a .38 caliber handgun. A search the crime scene reveals a .38 caliber handgun with matching ballistics that is registered as belonging to Joe. They point out that Joe's multiple coworkers overheard him stating "I'm going to kill that son of a bitch Kevin for running over my dog." And theypoint out that Joe admits he was seen a gas station across from Kevin's apartment at 2:00 AM, and that Kevin's neighbors called the police after hearing gunshots just before 2 AM. None of those facts on their own are proof positive that Joe murdered Kevin, and it would be fallacious to assert so. However in aggregate they form a body of evidence that, barring any exculpatory evidence or testimony, is probably going to be enough to secure a conviction. And the jury would not be committing a fallacy in returning a guilty verdict. However the prosecution could skip all of that if they felt like it by submitting a single piece of evidence - a video recorded from Kevin's security camera that shows Joe knocking on Kevin's door at 1:45 AM, announcing that his name is Joe and he's come to kill Kevin, and pulling out a gun and shooting him. (Boy talk about a slam dunk case, eh?) In reality you wouldn't skip all the rest of the evidence mentioned earlier because it's always best to put all your cards on the table, but the point is that one piece of evidence that is strong enough is enough. Joe's attorneys could point out that every other piece of evidence mentioned earlier is circumstantial. But with the video, they'd have to argue that it's fake, or that the jury isn't really seeing what they think they're seeing, or some other pretty fantastical explanation. A conviction was likely before the video - afterwards it's all but guaranteed. Which brings me to this: epic.gsfc.nasa.gov/Single image, full disk views of the Earth from the DSCOVR satellite. For the first time I'll actually submit a formal proof in this thread. If the Earth is flat, satellite imagery should show all of the continents in a full disk image.
Full disk images do not show all of the continents.
Therefore the Earth is not flat. QED.
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