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dragontartare
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dragontartare on Jan 2, 2019 3:25:54 GMT
Same. There's so much untouched (by games) stuff in historic lore, it's almost criminal not to exploit it for some new game. There's whole parts of the world we've only heard rumors about, even. I wouldn't mind a whole game about the fall of the dwarven empire. Which I suppose is the same as a game about the First Blight and the rise of the Grey Wardens, but that's all good too. Considering how few people played Dwarves in DA:I, I'm not sure BW will ever pursue a Dwarven-centric game. It's possible I'm just being too optimistic here, but maybe more people would have played as a dwarf in DAI if some effort had been put into making the Cadash feel dwarfy. I enjoyed my dwarf Inquisitor, but she almost felt more like a short Trevelyan than a dwarf. There should have been more dialogue differences, especially in Descent, but also in side quests and war table operations involving the Carta, comments from NPCs, etc. Lavellan suffered from a similar problem, but elves are "sexier" than dwarves, so I suspect they'll always be an option even if they are treated as an afterthought.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 2, 2019 4:18:46 GMT
It's possible I'm just being too optimistic here, but maybe more people would have played as a dwarf in DAI if some effort had been put into making the Cadash feel dwarfy. I enjoyed my dwarf Inquisitor, but she almost felt more like a short Trevelyan than a dwarf. There should have been more dialogue differences, especially in Descent, but also in side quests and war table operations involving the Carta, comments from NPCs, etc. I dunno, people got two whole dwarf origins in DAO and a lot of reactivity in the Orzammar storyline, and dwarves still only accounted for 5% of Origins characters. I think a lot of people just want to play someone taller.
(I say that as somebody who loves playing dwarves the most and found Cadash sufficently dwarfy.)
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Jan 2, 2019 21:36:34 GMT
It's possible I'm just being too optimistic here, but maybe more people would have played as a dwarf in DAI if some effort had been put into making the Cadash feel dwarfy. I enjoyed my dwarf Inquisitor, but she almost felt more like a short Trevelyan than a dwarf. There should have been more dialogue differences, especially in Descent, but also in side quests and war table operations involving the Carta, comments from NPCs, etc. I dunno, people got two whole dwarf origins in DAO and a lot of reactivity in the Orzammar storyline, and dwarves still only accounted for 5% of Origins characters. I think a lot of people just want to play someone taller.
(I say that as somebody who loves playing dwarves the most and found Cadash sufficently dwarfy.)
Dwarves are supporting roles in fantasy, rarely the staring role. I have a feeling that is moreso why than anything else.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 2, 2019 21:45:20 GMT
I dunno, people got two whole dwarf origins in DAO and a lot of reactivity in the Orzammar storyline, and dwarves still only accounted for 5% of Origins characters. I think a lot of people just want to play someone taller.
(I say that as somebody who loves playing dwarves the most and found Cadash sufficently dwarfy.)
Dwarves are supporting roles in fantasy, rarely the staring role. I have a feeling that is moreso why than anything else. All the more reason to subvert stereotypes. 😋
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,461 Likes: 6,315
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 3, 2019 0:59:36 GMT
Dwarves are supporting roles in fantasy, rarely the staring role. I have a feeling that is moreso why than anything else. All the more reason to subvert stereotypes. 😋 Yeah, this is why playing a dwarf Inquisitor is so great! Nobody expects you to be the hero and its awesome.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 3, 2019 1:20:39 GMT
All the more reason to subvert stereotypes. 😋 Yeah, this is why playing a dwarf Inquisitor is so great! Nobody expects you to be the hero and its awesome.
Being the first magical dwarf and going WHAT THE FUCK WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK at your glowing demon hand 👌👌
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 3, 2019 1:32:11 GMT
It's possible I'm just being too optimistic here, but maybe more people would have played as a dwarf in DAI if some effort had been put into making the Cadash feel dwarfy. I enjoyed my dwarf Inquisitor, but she almost felt more like a short Trevelyan than a dwarf. There should have been more dialogue differences, especially in Descent, but also in side quests and war table operations involving the Carta, comments from NPCs, etc. I dunno, people got two whole dwarf origins in DAO and a lot of reactivity in the Orzammar storyline, and dwarves still only accounted for 5% of Origins characters. I think a lot of people just want to play someone taller.
(I say that as somebody who loves playing dwarves the most and found Cadash sufficently dwarfy.)
While that’s a factor, I think people are also more interested in unique endings. Lots of people played humans in Origins because they got to be king/queen. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ratios were a lot more skewed toward female elves compared to Origins, because they got to lock tongues with a literal god. If being a dwarf unlocked a unique ending in DA4, people’s interests would be piqued for sure. Like imagine if dwarf characters get the option of ending the game as the mob boss of the entire Carta (and not as an epilogue, as a fully cutscened sequence similar to becoming king/queen), or if they get an unusual ending with one of the titans. Even if it’s some weird, semi-negative ending like getting encased in lyrium as a Sha-Brytol, it would still be cool to experience something crazy like that. Hell, look how many people willingly chose to get dumped, by the villain, in a stinky wyvern grove.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 3, 2019 2:11:20 GMT
I dunno, people got two whole dwarf origins in DAO and a lot of reactivity in the Orzammar storyline, and dwarves still only accounted for 5% of Origins characters. I think a lot of people just want to play someone taller.
(I say that as somebody who loves playing dwarves the most and found Cadash sufficently dwarfy.)
While that’s a factor, I think people are also more interested in unique endings. Lots of people played humans in Origins because they got to be king/queen. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ratios were a lot more skewed toward female elves compared to Origins, because they got to lock tongues with a literal god. If being a dwarf unlocked a unique ending in DA4, people’s interests would be piqued for sure. Like imagine if dwarf characters get the option of ending the game as the mob boss of the entire Carta (and not as an epilogue, as a fully cutscened sequence similar to becoming king/queen), or if they get an unusual ending with one of the titans. Even if it’s some weird, semi-negative ending like getting encased in lyrium as a Sha-Brytol, it would still be cool to experience something crazy like that. Hell, look how many people willingly chose to get dumped, by the villain, in a stinky wyvern grove. I think that's definitely part of it - as you said, becoming Queen/King, romancing the ancient elven god-king who it turns out is behind everything - but dwarves in DAO literally got to be named Paragon, a living god, in DAO, and one of the origins has you starting out as a princess or prince. I think the real handicaps against dwarves are that 1) they can't be mages, and there are some people who only play mages, 2) they're short, and some people think that makes them dumpy/ugly/unheroic, and 3) there hasn't been a dwarf romance and some people feel weird about romancing humans/elves/qunari as a dwarf.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 3, 2019 13:00:22 GMT
I think the real handicaps against dwarves are that 1) they can't be mages, and there are some people who only play mages, 2) they're short, and some people think that makes them dumpy/ugly/unheroic, and 3) there hasn't been a dwarf romance and some people feel weird about romancing humans/elves/qunari as a dwarf. I think that is definitely part of it. I like playing mages and also playing elves, so not being able to play as a Dalish and a mage almost put me off that origin. Luckily I stuck with it as my first run and discovered how much I enjoyed playing a rogue. What had particularly attracted me to that origin was that it hinted that I would discover an ancient artefact of significance to my people, so immediately they had me hooked. I did play through both the dwarven origin stories but haven't yet taken them all the way through which is just laziness on my part. You do get to play a noble dwarf if you like being on top of the heap but, as has been pointed out, if you play human you get to be prince consort/queen topside, so that is going to appeal more. What with Redcliff, Aemon and the Landsmeet, being a human noble did have more connection with the main plotline, not to mention that a potential LI was the heir to the throne. With DAI once again I was always going to opt for elf first anyway. Then when I discovered the significance of the anchor and, having chosen to play female because the only elven love interest was Solas, how much that impacted on my elven identity, it did seem to give elf a big advantage over other races. I think people still probably played human the most though, because a lot of players just want to stick with what they are in real life. Many people played Qunari simply because they had finally been given the opportunity to do so. Then, as also pointed out, every race but dwarf gets the full range of options for class. And of course, once again, there was no dwarf romance option for someone playing a dwarf (well only a half hearted one) So I think that could be why the dwarf dropped down the list, particularly as many players only do so once. Perhaps what they need to do to fire people's imaginations about playing a dwarf is to make their background sufficiently unique so you do not feel you are just playing a short human. However, for that they would need to get back to origin stories that allow you to immerse yourself in the character and their background, rather than just a few short lines in your biography at the beginning of the game. May be also give you some unique ability that is tied to you being a dwarf to compensate for not being able to do magic, like being able to do your own enchantments straight off or being able to communicate with a titan, or giving the Blessing of the Ancestors to you as a perk that does operate like it does for the Legionnaire Scout, making you stronger, tougher and able to resist magic, so a better fighter in that respect than any of the other races.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 3, 2019 13:31:04 GMT
I think the real handicaps against dwarves are that 1) they can't be mages, and there are some people who only play mages, 2) they're short, and some people think that makes them dumpy/ugly/unheroic, and 3) there hasn't been a dwarf romance and some people feel weird about romancing humans/elves/qunari as a dwarf. I think that is definitely part of it. I like playing mages and also playing elves, so not being able to play as a Dalish and a mage almost put me off that origin. Luckily I stuck with it as my first run and discovered how much I enjoyed playing a rogue. What had particularly attracted me to that origin was that it hinted that I would discover an ancient artefact of significance to my people, so immediately they had me hooked. I did play through both the dwarven origin stories but haven't yet taken them all the way through which is just laziness on my part. You do get to play a noble dwarf if you like being on top of the heap but, as has been pointed out, if you play human you get to be prince consort/queen topside, so that is going to appeal more. What with Redcliff, Aemon and the Landsmeet, being a human noble did have more connection with the main plotline, not to mention that a potential LI was the heir to the throne. With DAI once again I was always going to opt for elf first anyway. Then when I discovered the significance of the anchor and, having chosen to play female because the only elven love interest was Solas, how much that impacted on my elven identity, it did seem to give elf a big advantage over other races. I think people still probably played human the most though, because a lot of players just want to stick with what they are in real life. Many people played Qunari simply because they had finally been given the opportunity to do so. Then, as also pointed out, every race but dwarf gets the full range of options for class. And of course, once again, there was no dwarf romance option for someone playing a dwarf (well only a half hearted one) So I think that could be why the dwarf dropped down the list, particularly as many players only do so once. Perhaps what they need to do to fire people's imaginations about playing a dwarf is to make their background sufficiently unique so you do not feel you are just playing a short human. However, for that they would need to get back to origin stories that allow you to immerse yourself in the character and their background, rather than just a few short lines in your biography at the beginning of the game. May be also give you some unique ability that is tied to you being a dwarf to compensate for not being able to do magic, like being able to do your own enchantments straight off or being able to communicate with a titan, or giving the Blessing of the Ancestors to you as a perk that does operate like it does for the Legionnaire Scout, making you stronger, tougher and able to resist magic, so a better fighter in that respect than any of the other races. Mechanically, the power is there already. In Inquisition, it’s much more beneficial to stack double assassins or double tempests vs. any benefits that come from having the PC be a mage. It’s not like Origins, where more mages = more glyph shenanigans, or DA2 where only the PC can have the awesome force mage spec for most of the game. Though Inquisition does eventually lock out the companion with the best mage spec, it only happens at the end of the game. So the pull toward mages is due to RP reasons, their flavor and unique underdog status. If the northern Thedas party is stuffed with mages, and mages get preferential treatment rather than being underdogs, maybe that would shift RP preferences more toward non-mages.
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