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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 5, 2018 17:16:54 GMT
And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s shuttle Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Inciting harassment of the developers is exactly what VentureBeat's article exists for. People have pointed out all of the holes in their article in this thread already. If you choose to believe the article still, then that's because you're the kind of person they write baseless garbage for.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Dec 5, 2018 17:21:04 GMT
I'm kinda surprised so many people are upset that the games still 3 years out. 1) I thought it was generally understood that a developer should take their time with a game, rather than rushing a mediocre product out the door (ex. Dragon Age II & Andromeda). I've seen plenty of Shigeru Miyamoto quotes about, "a delayed game is a good game..." in the past because of how many games (in 2017/2018) were released unpolished, or with a lack of content. It'd be better for the franchise if BioWare took their time with it, especially since Dragon Age: Inquisition seems to have polarizing opinions, and they have to compete against other Open-world/RPG giants like CDPR and Rockstar. It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s push Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Yeah, this is where I'm at. If it was 7 years of development to make a great game then it would be an easier wait. However ignoring it for years, years in which we get Anthem and MEA? Not so much. I'm a little sad it's such a long hiatus.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 17:21:47 GMT
It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s shuttle Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Can't say if the final product will be as good, but people waited 7 years for Red Dead Redemption 2. Hell, you've got Kingdom Hearts fans waiting 12+ years for the next numbered game in the series. It's been already 7 years since Skyrim and even though TESVI was announced, we don't have a year and we know there's going to be a major release before that. With that said, none of the games mentioned had such a strong 'to be continued'/cliffhanger vibe as DAI, not even previous DA's (even if DA2 ending was getting there), which would likely explain at least a portion of the impatience.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2018 17:23:14 GMT
It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s push Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Anger? I don't think so. There are 4 franchises (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Anthem and SWTOR). They are getting a new game out every 2 years or thereabouts. If we get angry we fall into that 'entitled gamer' mindset that's so unhelpful to have, though I entirely understand that people are waiting very patiently for the next one. "Success" as in "the best-selling game in the series and usual fan pick for favorite game in the series." And no, I'd see Origins as being the usual fan pick, though Inquisition is a terrific game and it's fine if you prefer that one yourself.
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Post by CHRrOME on Dec 5, 2018 17:24:04 GMT
I don't think they plan on shooting themselves in the foot by announcing mobile stuff, especially after recent "mobile" events (EA fiascos, Blizzard fiasco, etc). I don't discard Bioware jumping into the mobile boat at some point, but it would be to their detriment to make it a center piece or teasing about a franchise only to reveal a mobile game afterwards. Complete disappointment.
As for the precedent of announcements remembering Andromeda, I've said it before in the other thread: I know they announced MEA (name unknown back then) like 3 or 4 years before release, but where did that lead us? Over-anxiety and dying hype afterwards because it was too soon, and that became radio silence from them for quite some time until they finally showed something. Bad times for everyone. I want to believe they know that announcing something too soon is not good, so I think they don't plan on repeating that.
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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 5, 2018 17:28:14 GMT
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 5, 2018 17:33:26 GMT
I don't think they plan on shooting themselves in the foot by announcing mobile stuff, especially after recent "mobile" events (EA fiascos, Blizzard fiasco, etc). I don't discard Bioware jumping into the mobile boat at some point, but it would be to their detriment to make it a center piece or teasing about a franchise only to reveal a mobile game afterwards. Complete disappointment. As for the precedent of announcements remembering Andromeda, I've said it before in the other thread: I know they announced MEA (name unknown back then) like 3 or 4 years before release, but where did that lead us? Over-anxiety and dying hype afterwards because it was too soon, and that became radio silence from them for quite some time until they finally showed something. Bad times for everyone. I want to believe they know that announcing something too soon is not good, so I think they don't plan on repeating that. BioWare/EA already released the mobile "Heroes of Dragon Age" a while ago so I wouldn't think that the announcement would be another mobile title. Sounds like "DA4" has been in some stage of development since "Trespasser" released 3 years ago. Even with some type of developmental re-focus prompted by Casey Hudson returning, I highly doubt they chucked all of what they've created so far.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 17:35:22 GMT
Chill, bro. I love DAI too, but being absolutist about something as subjective as to which game of the series is best ain't a hill I'd choose to die on.
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 5, 2018 17:37:10 GMT
It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s shuttle Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Can't say if the final product will be as good, but people waited 7 years for Red Dead Redemption 2. Hell, you've got Kingdom Hearts fans waiting 12+ years for the next numbered game in the series. That’s not even comparable. Red Dead Redemption 2 has a ridiculous (and quite frankly, unnecessary) level of detail to justify the long dev time. Hell, the programmers probably spent a day drawing straws deciding who would code the horse pooping before one of their overseers cracked a whip and ordered them back to manning the oars on the Rockstar slave galley. As for Kingdom Hearts, well, there have been a sleugh of prologues and remixes in between KH2 and KH3. I don't even play that series, but as far as I'm concerned, it never went away. My anger is not at the devs, but at EA for mandating this “live services” bullshit and forcing us to wait. I’ve been willing to defend EA in the past in the faint hope that one day they would release a decently-crafted DA4, but now I’m rethinking that position.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Dec 5, 2018 17:37:10 GMT
Why the attitude? People are free to give their opinions here, whatever they happen to be, and I for one am sick of the hostile responses some users keep coming back with. If you disagree that's not a problem, let's discuss it, but can we at least have a little respect for each side?
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 5, 2018 17:38:52 GMT
It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s push Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Anger? I don't think so. There are 4 franchises (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Anthem and SWTOR). They are getting a new game out every 2 years or thereabouts. If we get angry we fall into that 'entitled gamer' mindset that's so unhelpful to have, though I entirely understand that people are waiting very patiently for the next one. "Success" as in "the best-selling game in the series and usual fan pick for favorite game in the series." And no, I'd see Origins as being the usual fan pick, though Inquisition is a terrific game and it's fine if you prefer that one yourself. I don't really have a "favorite" as they all have their charms. "Origins" introduced us to the world of Thedas and has some great and memorable characters like Sten, Ohgren, Shale, etc "DA2" was rough around the edges but really nailed the "Snarky Adventure Hero" and had to great SP DLC's "Inquisition" really developed the world and the "Inquisitor" was great protagonist. I still play them all to this day...
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2018 17:44:15 GMT
I thought I'd qualify my assessment with some research, so here's a Twitter survey that's getting a quick-and-dirty view on the matter. It's close, but at the moment Origins appears to have the edge, as I suspected. EDIT: With more votes in, Inquisition is edging it, but it's pretty much neck-and-neck with Origins.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 17:45:06 GMT
Can't say if the final product will be as good, but people waited 7 years for Red Dead Redemption 2. Hell, you've got Kingdom Hearts fans waiting 12+ years for the next numbered game in the series. That’s not even comparable. Red Dead Redemption 2 has a ridiculous (and quite frankly, unnecessary) level of detail to justify the long wait time. Hell, the devs probably spent a day drawing straws deciding who would code the horse pooping before one of the overseers cracked a whip and ordered them back to manning the oars on the slave galley. As for Kingdom Hearts, well, there have been a sleugh of prologues and remixes in between KH2 and KH3. My anger is not at the devs, but at EA for mandating this “live services” bullshit and forcing us to wait. I’ve been willing to defend EA in the past, but now I’m rethinking that position. I think the issue is more complicated than 'live services' BS. Besides - we really, REALLY don't know anything substantial yet, aside from some unconfirmed rumors even the news post authors are wary of calling concrete or confirmed (release date may change! Title is 'tentative!) so why getting angry now? Now, I personally think that even if we get something tomorrow and it WILL be about DA4, it will be intentionally vague - but even then we'd get more than we have now, so no point getting angry or disappointed yet...
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 5, 2018 17:58:10 GMT
That’s not even comparable. Red Dead Redemption 2 has a ridiculous (and quite frankly, unnecessary) level of detail to justify the long wait time. Hell, the devs probably spent a day drawing straws deciding who would code the horse pooping before one of the overseers cracked a whip and ordered them back to manning the oars on the slave galley. As for Kingdom Hearts, well, there have been a sleugh of prologues and remixes in between KH2 and KH3. My anger is not at the devs, but at EA for mandating this “live services” bullshit and forcing us to wait. I’ve been willing to defend EA in the past, but now I’m rethinking that position. I think the issue is more complicated than 'live services' BS. Besides - we really, REALLY don't know anything substantial yet, aside from some unconfirmed rumors even the news post authors are wary of calling concrete or confirmed (release date may change! Title is 'tentative!) so why getting angry now? Now, I personally think that even if we get something tomorrow and it WILL be about DA4, it will be intentionally vague - but even then we'd get more than we have now, so no point getting angry or disappointed yet... In terms of "Live Service", to me it appeared Casey was looking at it more of a way to deliver consistent, updated content that was never possible with previous "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" titles. I know the instinct is for people to blurt "Looot boxez, urrggh" but "Anthem", a "Live Service" game, won't have loot boxes or randomness...you see and pay for the thing that you want. From a developer stand-point, I can see the upside for them in terms of being able to add story elements on the fly, allow for additional weapons and armor to be accessible, maybe a add a quick hour long mission to further enhance a plot line...it has a lot of potential. I remember reading Mike Gamble timeline before lamenting in a way that the SP DLC delivery was very static in the past and the game's momentum at time of it's release uncertain. With this, they can customize their content to more align with the response they are seeing in-game from the fans that are playing it.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 18:05:05 GMT
In terms of "Live Service", to me it appeared Casey was looking at it more of a way to deliver consistent, updated content that was never possible with previous "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" titles. I know the instinct is for people to blurt "Looot boxez, urrggh" but "Anthem", a "Live Service" game, won't have loot boxes or randomness...you see and pay for the thing that you want. From a developer stand-point, I can see the upside for them in terms of being able to add story elements on the fly, allow for additional weapons and armor to be accessible, maybe a add a quick hour long mission to further enhance a plot line...it has a lot of potential. I remember reading Mike Gamble timeline before lamenting in a way that the SP DLC delivery was very static in the past and the game's momentum at time of it's release uncertain. With this, they can customize their content to more align with the response they are seeing in-game from the fans that are playing it. I mean... even DA devs had to butt in and point out that all previous DA titles had some form of live services. I think the major thrust of what the industry does now is simply to arrange, streamline and improve the system that already mostly exists. In that system stuff like Black Emporium or Golden Nug or more Inky PJs aren't just part of a patch, but a live service. It probably also helps to market these things better. Remember how people were gushing about 'free DLCs!' for Witcher 3 that sometimes consisted only of 1 outfit or reskin and somehow, conveniently, they forgot about these bigger patched-in improvements DA or MEA had? Perception matters...
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 5, 2018 18:11:03 GMT
In terms of "Live Service", to me it appeared Casey was looking at it more of a way to deliver consistent, updated content that was never possible with previous "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" titles. I know the instinct is for people to blurt "Looot boxez, urrggh" but "Anthem", a "Live Service" game, won't have loot boxes or randomness...you see and pay for the thing that you want. From a developer stand-point, I can see the upside for them in terms of being able to add story elements on the fly, allow for additional weapons and armor to be accessible, maybe a add a quick hour long mission to further enhance a plot line...it has a lot of potential. I remember reading Mike Gamble timeline before lamenting in a way that the SP DLC delivery was very static in the past and the game's momentum at time of it's release uncertain. With this, they can customize their content to more align with the response they are seeing in-game from the fans that are playing it. I mean... even DA devs had to butt in and point out that all previous DA titles had some form of live services. I think the major thrust the industry does now is simply to arrange and streamline the system that already mostly exist. In that system stuff like Black Emporium or Golden Nug or more Inky PJs aren't just part of a patch, but a live service. It probably also helps to market these things better. Remember how people were gushing about 'free DLCs!' for Witcher 3 that sometimes consisted only of 1 outfit or reskin and somehow, conveniently, they forgot about these bigger patched-in improvements DA or MEA had? Perception matters... Yeah, they certainly could have done better job of getting ahead of the perception. I think sometimes the Devs will release something with a certain intention and believe it will be received in the spirit of that intention and are shocked when it isn't received that way...their "Live Service" response for past BioWare titles is in that vein. Which is why I think you see Casey being more proactive in terms of framing the "Live Service" angle a certain way as he doesn't want to lose the core BioWare fanbase who automatically associate "Live Service" with "FPS/Destiny Clone" and direct it towards "we are going to give you the SP DLC you are used to but just change the delivery system and timing".
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 5, 2018 18:12:12 GMT
In terms of "Live Service", to me it appeared Casey was looking at it more of a way to deliver consistent, updated content that was never possible with previous "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" titles. I know the instinct is for people to blurt "Looot boxez, urrggh" but "Anthem", a "Live Service" game, won't have loot boxes or randomness...you see and pay for the thing that you want. From a developer stand-point, I can see the upside for them in terms of being able to add story elements on the fly, allow for additional weapons and armor to be accessible, maybe a add a quick hour long mission to further enhance a plot line...it has a lot of potential. I remember reading Mike Gamble timeline before lamenting in a way that the SP DLC delivery was very static in the past and the game's momentum at time of it's release uncertain. With this, they can customize their content to more align with the response they are seeing in-game from the fans that are playing it. I mean... even DA devs had to butt in and point out that all previous DA titles had some form of live services. I think the major thrust the industry does now is simply to arrange, streamline and improve the system that already mostly exist. In that system stuff like Black Emporium or Golden Nug or more Inky PJs aren't just part of a patch, but a live service. It probably also helps to market these things better. Remember how people were gushing about 'free DLCs!' for Witcher 3 that sometimes consisted only of 1 outfit or reskin and somehow, conveniently, they forgot about these bigger patched-in improvements DA or MEA had? Perception matters... Here are those quotes from Casey & Fernando...
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Reading lots of feedback regarding Dragon Age, and I think you’ll be relieved to see what the team is working on. Story & character focused. Too early to talk details, but when we talk about “live” it just means designing a game for continued storytelling after the main story.
Fernando Melo DiscoBabalooAlso, fwiw, every single DA game to date has had "live elements" of some sort ppl :/
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 18:14:30 GMT
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Post by samhain444 on Dec 5, 2018 18:22:08 GMT
I mean... even DA devs had to butt in and point out that all previous DA titles had some form of live services. I think the major thrust the industry does now is simply to arrange, streamline and improve the system that already mostly exist. In that system stuff like Black Emporium or Golden Nug or more Inky PJs aren't just part of a patch, but a live service. It probably also helps to market these things better. Remember how people were gushing about 'free DLCs!' for Witcher 3 that sometimes consisted only of 1 outfit or reskin and somehow, conveniently, they forgot about these bigger patched-in improvements DA or MEA had? Perception matters... Here are those quotes from Casey & Fernando...
Casey Hudson @caseydhudson Reading lots of feedback regarding Dragon Age, and I think you’ll be relieved to see what the team is working on. Story & character focused. Too early to talk details, but when we talk about “live” it just means designing a game for continued storytelling after the main story.
Fernando Melo DiscoBabalooAlso, fwiw, every single DA game to date has had "live elements" of some sort ppl :/
Yeah, that's one of the things I remember reading... The name of the game is continually delivering "stuff" to keep it fresh and keep you engaged. Like "AC:Odyssey", for example, they have been delivering a steady stream of content since release...not just story focused DLC but new a new creature to battle, mercenary battles, naval contracts, mastery leveling, etc. I don't plan to do all of the it but it gives me something new to look forward to if I want to revisit the game. I would like to see what could be delivered with a "Live Service" "Dragon Age" and "Mass Effect" game...
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 5, 2018 18:23:23 GMT
Honestly, I'm just happy DA4 is a thing.
We'll get there...
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 5, 2018 19:24:09 GMT
Guys, don't look too much into it. I've stopped seeing "secret messages" on everything a while back, and for good reason. Most of the time there's no secret message to begin with. He just mentions DA, and the legacy part is just a way of saying the franchise ain't dead or otherwise. The only important part is the one that mentions more information soon. An actual announcement for a proper game? Rare, it's too soon I feel if the reports of the game being 3 years away are to be believed. But who knows. I agree that tomorrow seems a bit too soon for an announcement for a game three years out. Which is why I believe this is either going to be some sort of spin off product or the skeleton crew development that has been going on for years has made a lot more progress than we expect, maybe a 2020 release. Luke Barrett made a post in the Twitter thread - and I'm going to go see if I can find it in a minute along the lines of "you'd be surprised what an experienced 'skeleton' crew can accomplish with an engine and tools fit to purpose". So DA4 being further along than we might expect would not be...er...unexpected. Edit: bsn.boards.net/post/1036999/thread
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Post by river82 on Dec 5, 2018 19:27:59 GMT
Inciting harassment of the developers is exactly what VentureBeat's article exists for. Lol
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Post by rras1994 on Dec 5, 2018 19:28:55 GMT
I agree that tomorrow seems a bit too soon for an announcement for a game three years out. Which is why I believe this is either going to be some sort of spin off product or the skeleton crew development that has been going on for years has made a lot more progress than we expect, maybe a 2020 release. Luke Barrett made a post in the Twitter thread - and I'm going to go see if I can find it in a minute along the lines of "you'd be surprised what an experienced 'skeleton' crew can accomplish with an engine and tools fit to purpose". So DA4 being further along than we might expect would not be...er...unexpected. Yep - also important to point out that BioWare don't usually go three years between releases, I think the most is about 2 and a half. As Dragon Age already has had a huge amount of plan, I don't see it taking a whole 3 years to produce. Could be wrong but it would be out of pattern for what the studio usually does.
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August 2016
heimdall
Heimdall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 5, 2018 19:31:39 GMT
I agree that tomorrow seems a bit too soon for an announcement for a game three years out. Which is why I believe this is either going to be some sort of spin off product or the skeleton crew development that has been going on for years has made a lot more progress than we expect, maybe a 2020 release. Luke Barrett made a post in the Twitter thread - and I'm going to go see if I can find it in a minute along the lines of "you'd be surprised what an experienced 'skeleton' crew can accomplish with an engine and tools fit to purpose". So DA4 being further along than we might expect would not be...er...unexpected. Edit: bsn.boards.net/post/1036999/threadThat’s my thinking, I was the one he was responding to!
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DragonKingReborn
20,427
August 2016
dragonkingreborn
http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
DragonKingReborn
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 5, 2018 19:32:45 GMT
Luke Barrett made a post in the Twitter thread - and I'm going to go see if I can find it in a minute along the lines of "you'd be surprised what an experienced 'skeleton' crew can accomplish with an engine and tools fit to purpose". So DA4 being further along than we might expect would not be...er...unexpected. Edit: bsn.boards.net/post/1036999/threadThat’s my thinking, I was the one he was responding to! I saw that! I didn't remember it when I first made the post, though. Forumception confirmed.
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