inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Dec 9, 2018 15:03:33 GMT
BACKGROUND INFORMATION What we know about the Dread Wolf basically comes from two sources, the Dalish elves and Fen’Harel himself, plus a number of other ancient sources that we encounter in Dragon Age Inquisition and its associated DLCs. Fen’Harel means Dread Wolf in elvish. There is a suggestion in a codex in the Temple of Mythal in Inquisition that the meaning might really be Rebel Wolf but this seems disproved by a conversation we have with Fen’Harel in Trespasser and Flemeth/Mythal addressing him as “Dread Wolf”. It should also be pointed out that this codex was portrayed as being written by human scholars based on their studies of linguistics but it would be odd if they knew more about the elvish language or the meaning of his name than the Dalish. Actually it would seem the codex was a device for introducing the idea that our knowledge about Fen’Harel might not be complete. Fen’Harel was a rebel but the Harel part of his name definitely means Dread. DALISH LORE In the Dalish pantheon of gods, Fen’Harel is known as the Lord of Tricksters and the Bringer of Nightmares. He is said to have never been particularly fond of the elves, interacting with them for sport or imparting of dark wisdom as the whim took him. The Dalish have a somewhat ambivalent relationship with Fen’Harel. On the one hand they seem to fear him and regard him as an untrustworthy trickster but on the other they make offerings of appeasement and place a statue of him in their camps, facing outwards to ward off evil spirits, clearly looking to him for protection.
The main story about him that the lore keepers tell is connected with their explanation for why their benevolent gods, the Creators, can no longer answer their prayers. In this tale the Creators, led by Mythal and Elgar’nan were engaged in a war with the evil gods of terror, malice, spite and pestilence, known as the Forgotten Ones. These gods had always been in opposition but apparently Fen’Harel could walk among both sides without fear of reprisal, belonging to both camps and neither. As the war seemed to have reached a state of impasse, Fen’Harel suggested calling a truce whilst he negotiated between them. The Creators retreated to the heavens, whilst the Forgotten Ones returned to the abyss, whereupon Fen’Harel trapped both sets of gods in their respective realms. In one version of the story, both sets of gods were persuaded to do this because he promised to reveal the location of a secret weapon that would defeat their enemies. The Dalish call this action on the part of Fen’Harel “the Betrayal” and the lore keepers claim his reason for locking away the other gods is that he wanted sole control of the Beyond, which is the name the Dalish use for the Fade. He then left the ordinary elves to fend for themselves in the centuries that followed. Around this time the humans arrived. It seems that this may have been prior to the raising of the Veil but up until then the elves regarded them as little more than pests and Andruil even appears to have hunted them like beasts, although this last fact comes from writings in the Temple of Mythal rather than the Dalish. After the raising of the Veil the elves gradually withdrew from contact as they believed the loss of the gods and contact with humans had resulted in a condition known as the Quickening, indicative of the previously immortal elves having become mortal. Ultimately Arlathan fell to the human invaders, an event that the Keepers claim had Fen’Harel “giggling madly and hugging himself with glee” for the gods inability to be able to respond to the elven prayers for assistance. With respect to Fen’Harel’s control of the Beyond, the keepers also teach that he gleefully patrols it to feast upon the souls of the dead. This presumably is the origin of the Dalish curse “Fen’Harel take you”. It is also possible that the reason he was able to walk in the camp of either set of gods was that he did not do so physically but contacted them via the Fade. The awareness that he seemed to do much of his work through the Fade might account for why the Keepers teach he wanted sole control if it. FEN’HAREL HIMSELF His name is really Solas, our elven companion in Dragon Age Inquisition. The word can mean “pride” in a negative way but also “to stand tall”. He claims that Solas was his name first before he became Fen’Harel but that doesn’t preclude the possibility that this was not his original name. There is evidence in the Temple of Mythal and Solas’ words to Abelas that the ancient elves would change their name as they changed their role in society or responded to events. Solas was given the name Fen’Harel, the Dread Wolf, by his enemies, the Evanuris, when he started to oppose their rule. He then adopted the name and the persona as a way of boosting the morale of his followers and encouraging fear among those of his enemies. He admits to having a strong affinity with spirits and connection to them. He had two particular spirits he was friendly with in the Fade, Wisdom and Purpose. He regards spirits as people in the same way as he does the inhabitants of the mortal world and is incensed if they are mistreated. He also seems proud of his knowledge of the Fade. According to Solas the elven gods were nothing more than powerful mages, who became the generals of the elves during a time of war. Evanuris translates as leaders, the First of their People. It is not clear who the war was against but it seems from other references it was likely the Titans. After defeating these beings, the Evanuris continued to build their power as kings and then finally were regarded as gods by the lesser elves, who would make petitions and prayers to them asking for favours in their specific area of expertise. Solas claims that the majority of other elves were little better than slaves, subject to the whims of these powerful entities. Vallaslin, blood writing, which the Dalish regard as a sign of allegiance to a specific god and their outlook on life, according to Solas were slave markings. In his opinion the only decent individual among them was Mythal because she genuinely cared for her people and protected them. She was the voice of reason that kept her fellow gods under control and this seems backed up by other evidence we find that shows she adjudicated between them in disputes. It is never made clear by Solas whether the term Evanuris only applied to the Creators or whether it also encompassed the Forgotten Ones. At some point in their history Solas decided to rebel against the rule of the Evanuris and help others who wished to escape from them. It is not entirely clear whether he had already started to do this before the murder of Mythal or only afterwards. If the Inquisitor drinks from the Well of Sorrows the spirits of Mythal’s priesthood impart knowledge of the secret password to Fen’Harel’s refuge for runaway slaves but it is possible they joined his cause after her murder and this is why they were party to it rather than the rebellion started before her death and she endorsed it. Whatever the case, her murder was the event that he claims spurred him on in his efforts against them, culminating in him banishing them from the world as punishment for this crime and also because, without Mythal controlling their ambitions, their activities threatened the survival of the world itself. He did this by creating the Veil to cut off the mortal world from the Fade. In doing so he not only imprisoned the Evanuris but also stripped the elves of their immortality and the majority of their magical abilities. Many structures that were built with magic and needed the Fade to sustain them were also destroyed. He never reveals exactly how he managed to raise the Veil but it would seem it was probably connected in some way to his orb of power. It would also seem the effort of doing so weakened him to such an extent that he dropped into uthenera, the elven slumber undertaken by those who wish to withdraw from the world either temporarily or permanently. This would allow him to recover his strength over time whilst drawing sustenance from the Fade. He states that he awoke from this slumber only a year before he joined the Inquisition. The Dalish stories about him prowling the Fade probably do have some substance in fact because Solas does have the power to contact people through the Fade and even kill them, so Dalish mages at least may have encountered him there. He does not have a high opinion of the Dalish which is understandable given their view of him and the fact that he apparently had a bad experience when he attempted to introduce himself to a clan after his awakening. However, it should be mentioned that the Dalish have a wariness of anything connected with spirits, so may not have been that impressed by his claim to have expert knowledge of the Fade and its denizens. To them he would have appeared an apostate mage, fled from the human Circles who was trying to assert superior knowledge of elven lore to their own on the basis of his relationship with the spirits in ancient ruins. So it is probably understandable why the encounter did not go well. Solas admits that he can be ruthless, willing to sacrifice friends and allies when it comes to achieving his goals. This is confirmed by what he does to his agent, Felassan, for disobeying orders and also to Flemeth in the epilogue to Inquisition. OTHER SOURCES Felassan He is a character in the novel Masked Empire who befriends Briala, the city elf servant of Celene. His name means “Slow Arrow” in elvish. Whilst he seems to be a Dalish elf, this is in fact a disguise to conceal his true origins and he displays contempt for the Dalish or at least the clan we see in the novel, who are in fact a most xenophobic and obnoxious group of individuals, quite unlike any clan we meet in the games. He was around for at least 20 years before the events of Inquisition and was an ancient elf agent of Fen’Harel, presumably awakened ahead of his leader in order to pave the way for his return. Solas informs us that his task was to recover control of the eluvians, the magical network of portals that were created by the ancient elves and allow for fast travel across the world. Felassan tells Briala a number of stories concerning Fen’Harel as a way of instructing her in strategy and cunning. These stories do seem to feed into the idea of the Dread Wolf as depicted by the Dalish; a clever but ultimately self-serving and somewhat untrustworthy character who acts as the mood takes him. However, at least one story suggests that the Forgotten Ones had as much of a grudge against him as the Creators did before he allegedly locked them away, as both gods involved want to punish him for misdeeds. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen. The stories may be allegorical in nature, bearing in mind their purpose. However, in this story he does set Andruil against Anaris, until they cause one another such injuries that they must sleep to heal their wounds, during which time Fen’Harel manages to escape from both of them. So this does fit the idea of the Dalish story that the two sets of gods were at war when he tricked them both. At the end of the novel Felassan enters the Fade knowing that he is likely to be killed by whoever is waiting for him there. Cole confirms in Trespasser that the dark entity that slays Felassan for disobeying orders was in fact Fen’Harel. With regard to Felassan’s original mission, it is interesting to note that to gain control of the eluvians required a keystone that was in possession of Imshael, an ancient demon, who is identified in DA2 as one of the Forbidden Ones. In Trespasser we discover that the Forbidden Ones were around at the time of the Evanuris and the designation of “Forbidden” relates to the sentence passed on them by Elgar’nan for cowardice during a conflict in which they were meant to be allies. Essentially they were banished from the lands of the Evanuris and “forbidden from the earth that is our right”. So it is possible to speculate whether the Forbidden Ones aided Fen’Harel in his later conflict with the Evanuris and if he was the one who gave Imshael the keystone for safekeeping. Certainly Imshael seemed to be on friendly enough terms with Felassan. Flemeth/Mythal In the epilogue to Inquisition she addresses him as “old friend”. It is clear from their interaction that there was a strong bond of friendship between them but also the sense of her being his superior. She admonishes him for giving his orb to Corypheus, whilst his appeal to her that he deserves punishment for his action but “the People need me” seems to fit with the idea of Mythal being the dispenser of justice for the elves but would only find in your favour if you are honest and sincere. In Trespasser we discover confirmation that they were allies in ancient times. There is a statue of Mythal with a wolf alongside her in the position of guardian. This suggests he may have been some sort of bodyguard to her. We know from the Dalish that at one time all elves had magic to a greater or lesser degree, which is confirmed by Solas. So presumably what distinguished one from another would be the way in which they utilised the magic. Solas gives the Inquisitor information about the arcane warriors of ancient times, saying that they were bodyguards and champions to the nobility. In a conversation with Blackwall, when the latter says that he does not carry himself like warrior, Solas replies “You should have seen me when I was younger, hot-blooded and cocky, always ready to fight.” So it is possible that in his youth he did train as an arcane warrior and took service with Mythal. What is slightly more puzzling is why he is depicted as a wolf alongside her? If he was only given the name Dread Wolf after he rebelled against the rule of the Evanuris, why is he shown as a wolf when he was serving Mythal? There is a similar statue on guard outside her Temple in the Arbor Wilds. Was he also a shapeshifter that took the form of a wolf when guarding her? We are told that in the old Dales the Emerald Knights had wolf guardians that fought alongside them. Could this practice have come about through some residual memory of the same being true in ancient times? Did all arcane warriors take the shape of wolves when they were not using their magic? Or were they just called wolves, symbolically, and so the statue of Fen’Harel alongside Mythal was symbolic of his designation as an arcane warrior, which is why he was later named Dread wolf, as opposed to those wolves that were still loyal to the Evanuris? What is even more baffling is the huge statue of a wolf that overlooks the Exalted Plains. In the few hundred years that the Dales were in existence in the modern era, it seems highly unlikely the inhabitants would have put carving a giant wolf out of a mountain at the top of their list of priorities. So clearly this statue must date to more ancient times. If it depicts Fen’Harel then it would hardly have been carved after his rebellion, so did he already have status enough before? Was the entire area southwards as far as the Arbor Wilds the domain of Mythal so this is why there is a statue of him on guard at its borders? For an individual who was ultimately a rebel against the leadership of the Evanuris there are an awful lot of statues in this style to be found throughout the area, so are they not of Fen'Harel at all but was the area perhaps the base of training for arcane warriors? (see my previous comment that perhaps the wolf was the symbol of the arcane warriors). Prologue to the Canticle of Shartan This states that there are elements of the story of Shartan that are similar to ancient elven folktales of a rebellion against tyrants led by a trickster warrior. Why the Dalish never made the connection between these folktales and Fen’Harel’s story is something of a puzzle since it is clear the story is about him. Presumably it was the only way his devoted followers could keep the memory alive of his rebellion without earning the ire of elves which had remained loyal to the Evanuris. The fact he is described as a warrior seems to lend further credence to the idea that he was an arcane warrior when he was an ally of Mythal. Vir Dirthara The memories in the ancient library confirm the destruction that he admits occurred as a result of him raising the Veil. It is also clear that at least some of the elves were aware of who was responsible for the destruction if not how exactly it was caused and swore vengeance if they were lucky enough to survive. Considering a civil war also followed on the imprisonment of the leaders of the elves, it is hardly surprising that his actions were less than fondly remembered by the survivors. If it was then apparent that he was no longer physically active and could only be encountered in the Fade, it would explain why the Keepers teach that he left the elves to fend for themselves whilst he took control of the Beyond. In hindsight, it would appear that even Solas wondered if his actions were justified, seeing as he now wants to reverse them, so it seems reasonable enough that those who survived the chaos and anarchy tended to remember the disastrous results of his rebellion and thus handed on a negative memory of the Dread Wolf to future generations. The Evanuris There is not much in the way of writings directly attributable to the leadership of the elves collectively, except for one within the broken up Vir Dirthara: The pages of this book-memory?-warn of a terrible danger, a wolf with slavering black jaws and pits for eyes. The Evanuris-the elven gods-stand in a ring around it, as if preventing it from attacking. "Beware the forms of Fen'Harel! The Dread Wolf comes in humble guises, a wanderer who knows much of the People and their spirits. He will offer advice that seems fair, but turns slowly to poison. Remember the price of treason, and keep in your heart the mercy of your gods." It is clear from this warning that the Evanuris did not trust Fen'Harel at this point. It is also a very accurate description of Solas as he presented himself to the Inquisitor, whilst the visual memory of the Dread Wolf with slavering jaws and pits for eyes is also familiar to us. Sadly it was only a description and we were not given the actual image that would have allow us to discover how many Evanuris were guarding against him.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on May 31, 2019 23:13:00 GMT
BACKGROUND INFORMATION What we know about the Dread Wolf basically comes from two sources, the Dalish elves and Fen’Harel himself, plus a number of other ancient sources that we encounter in Dragon Age Inquisition and its associated DLCs. Fen’Harel means Dread Wolf in elvish. There is a suggestion in a codex in the Temple of Mythal in Inquisition that the meaning might really be Rebel Wolf but this seems disproved by a conversation we have with Fen’Harel in Trespasser and Flemeth/Mythal addressing him as “Dread Wolf”. It should also be pointed out that this codex was portrayed as being written by human scholars based on their studies of linguistics but it would be odd if they knew more about the elvish language or the meaning of his name than the Dalish. Actually it would seem the codex was a device for introducing the idea that our knowledge about Fen’Harel might not be complete. Fen’Harel was a rebel but the Harel part of his name definitely means Dread.
I'd be careful about strictly ascribing Fen'Harel's name to any one definition. One thing about the old elvhen language was how it was very contextual and holds a lot of nuance.This is perhaps most obvious in the WoT text "Where Willows Wail" where we see lines like "when the wolf failed/won" and " We/it lost eternity or the ruined tree of the People". It could very well that both "Dread Wolf" and "Rebel Wolf" could both be equal translations of "Fen'Harel". Besides its not like the codex you mentioned ( linked here) used random sources. It specifically notes how the word "harellan" did not appear in elvhen texts before the Towers age. And it tries to determine the translation by following the elvhen root word "harillen"--research wise this isn't a bad attempt. And i'm not even sure if the author of that text was human at all. Sure we can assume it is since it came from a higher form of education (which elves are generally not allowed to attend) but we know that Celene's influence allows even elves to be admitted into the University of Orlais. We see this in Jaws of Hakkon with Collete. But the name on that codex? "Senallen Tavernier". The first name sounds pretty elfy don't you think? But even if it was written by a human, and thus subject to thier biases, that does not mean that humans have nothing on elvhen history. If nothing else they have a lot of documentation that could help them out. Tevinter likely has scores of documents relating to elvhen magics and traditions that they appropriated for thier use, and even southern thedas has books (like the catalogue of elvhen relics in DAO's witch hunt DLC which was written in a old dialect) that would prove beneficial in any attempt to translate the old tongue. After all. elvhen history has intertwined with human history on numerous occasions. even Andrastian history (though most try to deny this today). The canticle of shartan was noted to likely be based off of old elvhen legends of a trickster warrior, and the canticle of Threnodies was noted to be "primarily a translation of a much older oral tradition: "The Slave Dirge", which Tevinter legal documents dating as far back as -182 Ancient record as being sung during uprisings" and you and I both know elves were likely part of those said uprisings. If nothing else, human libraries have a much longer paper trail than the Dalish who rely on oral history.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Jun 1, 2019 0:10:02 GMT
Also I want to look that codex a bit more. If we are generous and assume the scholar was right in translating Fen'Harel as 'rebel god' by comparing it to the ancient root word "harillen" and "hellathen" then odds are the Dalish people had a similar translation at the time. If so, then they would view "Fen'Harel" with a lot less disdain and contempt than they do now. And go far back enough this may make a lot of sense. It could potentially explain why Canticle of Shartan was noted to likely be inspired by older elvhen folk tales of a trickster warrior which appeared in the Dales as early as -140 Ancient and preserved by oral tradition (which we know the elves were big on) before it was recorded in 1:8 Divine when the first Justinia wanted it transcribed. And the Dales themselves are littered with wolf statues and even a few shrines to Fen'Harel. And before someone says "but the wolves are actually just the Knight's Guardians not Fen'Harel" that still seems a bit odd doesn't it? Even back then Fen'Harel was associated with wolves so it seems odd that the elves would choose wolves as companions at all if they viewed Fen'Harel as a deceitful traitor back then. If we assume that the elves still had an idea of Fen'Harel as this trickster rebel figure, then that begs the question: why did his reputation sour so that he came the God of Deceit in the future? Well I think the codex may give us some insight on this matter. The first line states that "The Dalish use "Harellan" to mean "traitor to one's kin," but the word does not appear in any elven text before the Towers Age.". The Towers Age. So....literally after the fall of the Dales in the Glory Age? That's a rather...interesting time to suddenly develop a word means "traitor" and change Fen'Harel's depiction along with it. But then again I could be wrong. This all relies on the supposition that the elves of the old Dales viewed Fen'Harel in a more favorable light until the Dales fell.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 2, 2019 8:45:48 GMT
In my defence, I would say this is the writers not being consistent. My principle evidence of the correct translations being "Dread Wolf" is, as I say in your quotation, because it is endorsed by Solas himself and Mythal. When we meet him in Trespasser, we say "You're the Dread Wolf" and far from correcting us, he explains how it was a name given to him by his enemies that he adopted to boost his reputation both among his allies and enemies. Whilst "Rebel Wolf" could have been the title the Evanuris gave him, which might inspire his allies, it was hardly likely to invoke fear in their supporters, which is why he adopted the title. Then we have Flemeth referring to him directly as "Dread Wolf" and since she gets knowledge direct from Mythal it is hardly likely she would get it wrong. I seem to recall Abelas also refers to him by the same title and the same comment applies to him, particularly considering the codex that introduced the idea of it meaning "rebel" was actually in his Temple. So even if originally the Evanuris title for him was "Rebel Wolf", it is clear that fairly quickly everyone changed the meaning to "Dread" and thus the Dalish interpretation is the correct one. It specifically notes how the word "harellan" did not appear in elvhen texts before the Towers age. What elven texts? At this time the Dalish were already nomads and so the number of written texts they would be able to produce would be limited. Besides the preface to the Canticle of Shartan suggests that the Dalish have always relied more on oral tradition in modern times even when they were based in the Dales. The Dalish do have a number of ancient texts in their possession but it seems unlikely they would translate them into the hated human tongue when the job of the Keepers was to transmit the ancient lore to the next generation via their apprentices and each clan also has a Storyteller who verbally recounts their history to the younger members of the clan. In DAI, when we want ancient elven texts translated this is done by Cillian, a former First of Clan Rilaferin, which is also the clan of Gisharel, the source of much elven lore being shared with the human scholars. When Justinia I wanted to include the story of Shartan in the Chant of Light, her scholars referred to the Dalish and wrote down their oral tradition. Morrigan confirms (if she drinks from the Well) that you do need ancient knowledge to correctly translate the ancient texts, so it does seem strange how scholars from the University of Orlais were able to come by their knowledge except by reference to the Dalish. I must assume that the translator of the "Where the Willows Wail" text would have been a Dalish, probably Cillian again. It is just possible that the source of the information was one of Solas' agents but they were meant to be working undercover, not demonstrating their knowledge of ancient texts that might raise the suspicion that they were not ordinary city elves. It is possible that Tevinter has possession of something approximating to the Rosetta Stone which they used to translate ancient elven texts. It still doesn't explain why all the ancient elves who refer to Fen'Harel in the common tongue do so as "Dread Wolf" and not "Rebel Wolf". "The Slave Dirge", which Tevinter legal documents dating as far back as -182 Ancient record as being sung during uprisings" and you and I both know elves were likely part of those said uprisings. If nothing else, human libraries have a much longer paper trail than the Dalish who rely on oral history. It wasn't just the Dalish that relied on oral history. Andraste's followers did so as well. It was only when Drakon wanted to formalise the religion into his version of it that Justinia worked on bringing together the various oral traditions into one unified written text. Since Drakon was the grandson of a Tevinter Magister, it is hardly surprising that he might have had access to Tevinter written records of Andraste's rebellion. No doubt Tevinter would have been quick to focus on similarities between the Slave Dirge and the war chant of earlier uprisings, since Andraste appeared to be claiming a unique message received from the Maker himself. The writers often try to introduce new ideas on the basis of inaccuracies being introduced via oral transmission of history or biased reporting. Whilst the precise details of the Canticle of Shartan may have included the older oral tradition of the trickster warrior's rebellion, I have suggested in the past that the most likely explanation is that it was Shartan himself who used this older folktale to inspire his followers and gradually the two got intermixed. However, what I cannot accept is the suggestion of recent human scholars that Shartan may not have been a single historical figure at all. The Dalish clearly believed he was, Justinia I clearly believed he was, the Canticle of Apotheosis has reference to him a "the Liberator" trying to rescue her from the pyre, in DA2 we can acquire the legendary sword that Andraste gave to him (as detailed in the Canticle) and then in DAO we actually meet his shade (or a spirit mimicking him) in the Temple of Sacred Ashes. If Shartan did not exist, what was he doing there? This was after all a human Temple to Andraste so they had no reason to specifically remember Shartan. This is why I feel at times the writers try to be a bit too clever when it comes trying to keep us guessing when it comes to lore. Whilst oral transmission can lead to inaccuracies, it can also be very reliable if the traditions of the people using it place such store upon accurate transmission of their customs and history, as the Dalish do. It would actually be more reliable than "civilised" written histories that can be destroyed or altered according to the whim of the person in power, as would now appear to be the case with the dwarven Memories. The Dalish recollection of ancient history may be a biased one because they for the most part are recalling the oral history of the supporters of the Evanuris but it is probably more reliable than human written texts based off their own translations.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 2, 2019 14:21:53 GMT
And the Dales themselves are littered with wolf statues and even a few shrines to Fen'Harel. And before someone says "but the wolves are actually just the Knight's Guardians not Fen'Harel" that still seems a bit odd doesn't it? Even back then Fen'Harel was associated with wolves so it seems odd that the elves would choose wolves as companions at all if they viewed Fen'Harel as a deceitful traitor back then.
Have you actually read all my text? I make reference to the prevalence of wolf statues across the Dales but it does seem more likely that these date to a much earlier time. In fact we see that the Dalish have made offerings at one of these statues so clearly they do still regard them as connected to Fen'Harel. I've also made some suggestions about the use of wolf guardians.
We know there were a number of differing beliefs among the elves that inhabited the Dales after the Long Walk. There were elves, like Ameridan, who would seemed to have been able to adopt a dualistic approach to worship of the Maker/Andraste and the elven gods. There were even those who worshipped the Forgotten Ones and were thus shunned by the rest. It is still not clear if the elves of the Tirashan are their descendants or a much older enclave like the Temple of Mythal. However, the general attitude to Fen'Harel was already present at that time among the priesthood of the Creators, who later became the Keepers of the nomadic clans. They didn't blame him for the loss of the Dales but the loss of Arlathan, something which he does accept responsibility for, although at a much earlier era than the conquest by Tevinter. All this did take place back in the Ancient period of history though, so why would totally new ideas about him surface during the Towers Age? Not only was it long after the events which we learn about in Trespasser but also at least 100 years from the fall of the Dales, so it seems strange that it took until that time for these new translations to appear.
More likely it was simply a case of a Dalish clan having discovered an ancient text and translated it; the text contained references to either Fen'Harel directly or elves that were regarded as traitors for following him and these later came into the possession of human scholars who ascribed the use of the word to that later period when the Dalish simply hadn't had cause to use it in writing before that date.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 2, 2019 14:49:33 GMT
This is perhaps most obvious in the WoT text "Where Willows Wail" where we see lines like "when the wolf failed/won" and " We/it lost eternity or the ruined tree of the People". This is one of the enigmas of the texts we learn about (in WoT2) that allegedly were discovered in the Temple of Mythal and yet have a clear connection with the Alamarri barbarians. It is a pity we weren't told in game how exactly a poem written in elvish bemoaning the effects of Fen'Harel's rebellion and found in a Temple closed off to all outsiders until the Dragon Age, found its way into a later human war chant. There were hints in DAO of humans and elves co-habiting in ancient times in the area of the Brecilian Forest and that the elves would appear to have been loyal to at least one of the elven gods, yet both communities came under attack by some un-named dark power. So it can only be assumed that it was from the human descendants that the old elven poem found its way into later barbarian songs. However, it does beg the question, what became of the elves? That is also something I have questioned about Fen'Harel's followers generally, although that is more easily explained among the elves who were loyal to the Creators. Still, since the majority of these seemed to have retreated from contact with the world and put themselves in Uthenera, that would have left the followers of Fen'Harel free from persecution in the wider world. Yet they also seem to have put themselves into stasis instead of making the most of their hard won freedom. Did Solas direct them to do this?
|
|
theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
Posts: 482 Likes: 629
inherit
9275
0
629
theascendent
482
Aug 28, 2017 10:17:49 GMT
August 2017
theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
|
Post by theascendent on Jun 2, 2019 18:43:59 GMT
Does Solas know where Humans come from? I believe that it's been mentioned that there is no recorded point in human history where the Veil did not exist. So did humans immediately show up when the Solas erected the Veil or did they exist in a more primitive form than what they are today?
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Jun 2, 2019 21:22:44 GMT
Have you actually read all my text? I make reference to the prevalence of wolf statues across the Dales but it does seem more likely that these date to a much earlier time. In fact we see that the Dalish have made offerings at one of these statues so clearly they do still regard them as connected to Fen'Harel. I've also made some suggestions about the use of wolf guardians.
[...] Oh I did. Your posts are usually very interesting and well thought out so I tend so search out for them when dealing with lore posts (alongside few others). If my posts look like I am dealing with aforementioned points/data (like the wolf statues in the Dales) it is more for the sake of illustrating my train of thought than anything else. Sorry if I offended you.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,919 Likes: 24,226
inherit
214
0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:44 GMT
24,226
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,919
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Jun 2, 2019 22:21:51 GMT
Both the background and the text of your post are black for me....impossible to read.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 3, 2019 16:27:59 GMT
Both the background and the text of your post are black for me....impossible to read. I'm sorry about this. It happened before but I thought the problem had been fixed. It is odd that it occurs for some people but not others. What platform are you using?
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Apr 26, 2024 12:12:44 GMT
26,665
gervaise21
10,785
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Jun 3, 2019 16:40:48 GMT
None taken. Sorry if I sounded a bit tetchy. Actually all those wolf statues really bothered me, particularly that big one overlooking the Exalted Plains. I wish it had been explained why there were so many of them. Also why Solas was in the form of a wolf when he was Mythal's sidekick if he only took the name Fen-Harel during his rebellion. So he had to have been seen as a wolf all along and it was only the "Dread" bit that came later. Hence my wondering if there was a link between the wolf form and the Arcane Warriors of old, symbolically if not literally. May be it has to do with the way wolf society is structured. There is the alpha male and the alpha female and then the rest of the pack support them. Normally the pack are very loyal to one another, which the Evanuris would promote among their followers. A lone wolf is always regarded with suspicion because of not being part of the pack and thus a threat to them. Solas was originally a loyal member of Mythal's pack and thus by extension the rest of elvhen society. Then he went rogue, earning the title Dread wolf as a result. Until we are given a different explanation, this seems as good as any.
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Jun 3, 2019 21:47:01 GMT
None taken. Sorry if I sounded a bit tetchy. Actually all those wolf statues really bothered me, particularly that big one overlooking the Exalted Plains. I wish it had been explained why there were so many of them.Oh you have no idea how much it bothered me in the game as general whole. Wolf statues were EVERYWHERE in DAI. Even in areas where you would think he would not be present--like in Temples of Mythal and Dirthamen. Though knowing what we know now Mythal and Fen'Harel were on more amiable terms than what most Dalish would assume. Being that DAI was my first game in the series, it always confused me how a supposed God of Lies could have so much representation if he was truly as maliciously deceitful as the Dalish claimed. And it raised questions about why the Creators would even trust him at all in any of the Dalish tales. Years ago I originally thought of it as a way of saying "dear god please don't bother us if we raise statues in your honor". But now i'm not so sure. [...] Also why Solas was in the form of a wolf when he was Mythal's sidekick if he only took the name Fen-Harel during his rebellion. So he had to have been seen as a wolf all along and it was only the "Dread" bit that came later. Hence my wondering if there was a link between the wolf form and the Arcane Warriors of old, symbolically if not literally. May be it has to do with the way wolf society is structured. There is the alpha male and the alpha female and then the rest of the pack support them. Normally the pack are very loyal to one another, which the Evanuris would promote among their followers. A lone wolf is always regarded with suspicion because of not being part of the pack and thus a threat to them. Solas was originally a loyal member of Mythal's pack and thus by extension the rest of elvhen society. Then he went rogue, earning the title Dread wolf as a result. Until we are given a different explanation, this seems as good as any. You would think that if they wanted to associate the pack wolf with good connotations and the lone wolf with bad connotations, that they would have made some effort to differentiate between the two types of wolf. But as it is, the wolves are generally depicted in the same way. Regardless of whether or not the Fen'Harel statues are in the wilds (a lone wolf) or in the temple of another god (thus implying a certain affiliation with the God's "pack"), Fen'Harel has usually been depicted thusly: A hearty wolf laying down, with its head pointing toward one of its sides as if it was looking at something. The only other type of Fen'Harel statues we see are the Dalish statues and the skinnier wolves that are positioned to look like they were howling. In truth, his most foreboding representation imo was the mosaic found the temple of Mythal. That wolf was huge, and distinctly looked like it was either about to growl or was at least slyly smiling.
|
|
melbella
N6
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 7,919 Likes: 24,226
inherit
214
0
Apr 26, 2024 15:18:44 GMT
24,226
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
7,919
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Jun 4, 2019 1:07:59 GMT
What platform are you using? PC, Internet Explorer, Legacy theme My normal background for posts is black but the text, unless someone picks a different color, is white.
|
|