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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 30, 2018 0:22:23 GMT
Canticle of Exaltations is quite interesting especially it's connection to Tevinter and considering the possible removal of the Veil, it was written in -12 Ancient by Kordillus Drakon I, 158 years after Andraste's death, he had a vision. The air itself rent asunder, Spilling light unearthly from the Waters of the Fade, Opening as an eye to look Upon the Realm of Opposition In dire judgment.
And in that baleful eye I saw The Lady of Sorrow, armored in Light, Holding in her left hand the scepter Of Redemption. She descended From on high, and a great voice Thundered from the top of every Mountain and pinnacle across creation:
"All heads bow! All knees bend! Every being in the Realm Of Opposition pay homage, for the Maker of All Things Returns to you!"
Portents of the Maker's return' Seven times seventy men of stone immense Rose up from the earth like sleepers waking at the dawn, Crossing the land with strides immeasurable, And in the hollows of their footprints Paradise was stamped, indelible. It's quite interesting as "Seven times" clearly refers to the Old Gods but "seventy men of stone" and their description definitely fits Titans. 7x70=490 Titans? And those who slept, the ancient ones, awoke, For their dreams had been devoured By a demon that prowled the Fade As a wolf hunts a herd of deer. Taking first the weakest and frailest of hopes, And when there was nothing left, Destroying the bright and bold By subtlety and ambush and cruel arts. Can't ignore this one, - Fen'Harel?, awakening "the ancient ones" (Old Gods?) or "devours" them like he did Mythal? The ninth sacred mountain upon which rests The moral dust of Our Lady ascended Whole into the heavens, to be given high honor In the Realm of Dreams forever. And around it, a chorus of spirits sang: "Whatsoever passes through the fire Is not lost, but made eternal; As air can never be broken nor crushed, The tempered soul is everlasting!"
And I looked up and saw The seven gates of the Black City shatter, And darkness cloaked both realms. The Black City opens and releases the Void/Taint after Fen'Harel awakens/devours the remaining 2 Old Gods. In dread I looked up once more And saw the darkness warp and crumble, For it was thin as samite, A fragile shroud over the Light Which turned it to ash.
And the Maker, clad in the majesty of the sky, Set foot to earth, and at His touch All warring ceased. The vicious Beasts lay down and were quieted; The meek lambs became bold And rose up, casting aside their shepherds To dance at the Maker's feet.
From every corner of the earth The Chant of Light echoed, And the Maker walked the land With Andraste at His right hand. And they reached the gates of Minrathous, Where once a terrible fire swept The Light of redemption from the face of the world, And there, the Lady of Restitution Drew her shining sword And plunged it into the ground at her feet, saying: Full reading here: dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Chant_of_Light_verses#Canticle_of_Exaltations------ There's of course Eleni Zinovia. In DAO - Mage only: Weep not for me, child. Stone they made me and stone I am, eternal and unfeeling. And I shall endure 'til the Maker returns to light their fires again. In Witch Hunt - before closing the tears in the Veil: The prison is breached. I see the encroaching darkness.
The... the shadow will consume all...
A hunger, a cage, a yawning void. Interesting that she says "shadow" and not "shadows", a singular specific being of the Void?, or the Void/Taint itself? Witch Hunt - Morrigan: Change is coming to the world. Many fear change and will fight it with every fiber of their being. But sometimes, change is what they need the most. Sometimes, change is what sets them free. ------ Flemeth/Mythal in DA2 has prophecies specific to Hawke including in the DA2 Destiny trailer, but there is one which is not just specific to Hawke: We stand upon the precipice of change. The world fears the inevitable plummet into the abyss. Watch for that moment... and when it comes, do not hesitate to leap. It is only when you fall that you learn whether you can fly. While this could be about Hawke's role in DAI's "Here Lies the Abyss" quest, it is the first part that matters, - the Void is also referred to as "the Abyss". Our favorite enchanter Sandal Feddic - DA2: One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide.
When he rises, everyone will see. The one who rises is either Fen'Harel or the Maker. We of course have the recently created phrase "The Dread Wolf Rises" but taking in account the Canticle of Exaltations and Elves leaving everything behind to join him, - Fen'Harel could be perceived as a "false Prophet/God". ------ DAI's prophechies are interesting too. Kieran with Urthemiel's Soul to a Human Inquisitor (Warrior/Rogue): People fear the next age if it comes too soon. Kieran with Urthemiel's Soul about Morrigan: Mother is the inheritor, she who awaits the next age. Flemeth/Mythal about the Inquisitor: A Herald indeed, shouting to the heavens, harbinger of a new age. Why Mythal choose Flemeth? For a reckoning that will shake the very heavens. The Inquisitor brings a new age and Morrigan being it's inheritor are interesting when taking in account Canticle of Exaltations. Now trying to put them chronologically: - Fen'Harel removes the Veil. (from Tevinter possibly where it was first opened) [1] - Andraste returns, and awakens Titans to fight Fen'Harel. (Morrigan possessed by Andraste hence becoming the "inheritor"?) - Fen'Harel awakes/devours the remaining Old Gods. [2] - The Black City opens, releasing the Void/Taint. [2] - The Maker returns, with Andraste removing the Void/Taint, till reaching Tevinter. [1] Something interesting regarding the DA4 trailer is the fires and of course a tree (obviously Vhenadahl). The Canticle of Exaltations says:" And they reached the gates of Minrathous, Where once a terrible fire swept" The Canticle of Silence talks of "trees of Arlathan", clearly the Vhenadahl, inside the Temple of Dumat. "The sacred fires of his temple burned Rare incense, and the trees of Arlathan, and lapped at the bones of slaves" This possibly suggets Fen'Harel intends to remove the Veil specifically from the Temple of Dumat. [2] Taking their power possibly from desperation to fight the Titans, removal of remaining Old Gods causes the Void to release from the Black City but he doesn't care as long as the Titans would be busy fighting it, he thinks he will be able to destroy the Void himself afterwards because of the knowledge he got from Mythal about the Void.
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Post by taarsidathanhalsaam on Dec 30, 2018 0:38:16 GMT
This is a really well-thought-out, well-organized post! Its given me a lot to think about!
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Post by ellanathehamster on Dec 30, 2018 1:38:42 GMT
What an amazing tread, thank you for sharing it with us! Indeed I think this will give us the main outlook of what to expect- remember how they told us numerous times that main story is already developed for two next games? So in grand scheme we can successfully guess what to expect, considering how much Bioware likes to give hints in codex, if you pay attention (as example- before Trespasser many attentive players already guessed what happened to elvhen gods, taint, what was Solas plan and motivation. Same with titans- people teorised about titans before DLC and were right). So I personally agree 100% that those prophesies are very valuable and need closer examination. Flemeth's words about Inquisitor make me really enthusiastic and hopeful that he/she will have an impact in next game (fingers crossed for dual protagonist).
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Post by Catilina on Dec 30, 2018 1:43:31 GMT
Sandal: One day the magic will come back. All of it. Everyone will be just like they were. The shadows will part, and the skies will open wide. Bodahn: Huh. What's this? Sandal: When he rises, everyone will see. Bodahn: By the ancestors, what's gotten into you, my boy? Sandal: Enchantment? Bodahn: Hmph. That's more like it.
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 30, 2018 3:30:40 GMT
All this has happened before, and will happen again.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 30, 2018 4:19:11 GMT
I have doubts about the parts involving Andraste or the Maker showing, if only because Bioware has repeatedly stated they are never going to answer one way or the other whether the Maker exists.
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Post by Ieldra on Dec 30, 2018 8:53:36 GMT
This makes me think we won't be able to prevent the Veil being destroyed, but the consequences may not be as dire as foreseen by Solas.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 30, 2018 9:01:47 GMT
I have doubts about the parts involving Andraste or the Maker showing, if only because Bioware has repeatedly stated they are never going to answer one way or the other whether the Maker exists. Yeah, prophecies and visions in fantasy almost never turn out to be true in a literal sense. And there's every possibility that the person who had the vision in question was simply applying a personal interpretation, rather than sharing the objective truth of what they saw.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 30, 2018 11:51:47 GMT
Maybe not literally bringing back Andraste or the Maker.
The Inquisitor's role of "harbinger of a new age" could be their attempt at searching for power equal to Fen'Harel, the prerequisite to bringing back the Maker according to the Chantry is for the Chant of Light to be sung "from all/four corners of the world".
Morrigan being it's "inheritor" could mean that she is a descendant of Andraste or gains her power, by the time of DAI the Urn of Andraste(or what's left of it depending on DAO choices) is gone.
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Post by LogicGunn on Dec 30, 2018 12:38:08 GMT
I have doubts about the parts involving Andraste or the Maker showing, if only because Bioware has repeatedly stated they are never going to answer one way or the other whether the Maker exists. Bioware won't have a literal maker/andraste but something' that will be interpreted by some people as holy. Just like some people thought the inquisitor was the herald of andraste and saw Inky as something holy regardless of how you played them. Prophecy is all about how a thing is viewed, not how a thing is, as is religion.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 30, 2018 13:29:41 GMT
Can't ignore this one, - Fen'Harel?, awakening "the ancient ones" (Old Gods?) or "devours" them like he did Mythal? Sorry, didn't read it all, but this part I found interesting. Solas locked the "Old Gods" away for a reason, which is because they killed Mythal. He hadn't realized that all elves (except himself, apparently) would lose their immortality. Wanting to make up for it he intends to remove the Veil and free the Old Gods. What if, though, he still intends to devour them? The Old Gods are still corrupt so he wouldn't want them around. Likely, they'd be as weakened as he'd been when awakened. I don't know where this could lead, but what if Solas is going to use something, maybe some ancient artifact found in Tevinter, to deal with the returning Old Gods. I'm not sure how else the return of the Old Gods could tie into Tevinter.
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 30, 2018 14:47:08 GMT
Great post! 👌 I agree with others that we likely won't get literal Andraste/the Maker - that's probably just Drakon's interpretation of events as a religious man - but something that could be interpreted that way, or something involving Andraste's daughters' descendents, is not out of the realm of possibility. I find this, The ninth sacred mountain upon which rests The mortal dust of Our Lady ascended Whole into the heavens, to be given high honor In the Realm of Dreams forever. And around it, a chorus of spirits sang: "Whatsoever passes through the fire Is not lost, but made eternal; As air can never be broken nor crushed, The tempered soul is everlasting!"interesting given that the Temple exploded and the Divine became or was emulated by a spirit, to live "forever" (err... or at least until the Nightmare came along, I don't really know). As for other prophecies (or just ominous foretellings? What's the difference tbh? )... Nexus Golem: And Leliana's letter to Sketch, about Tug: And this is the in-game description of Tug's weapon (the one with the inscribed handle described above):
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 30, 2018 15:32:29 GMT
I dislike the Canticle of Exaltations principally because it was used by Drakon as the justification for his empire building on the premise he was spreading the Chant of Light as commanded by Andraste/the Maker. Also, if it is an accurate vision of the future then that pretty much confirms the Maker exists (which they maintained they would never do). That said, I had already picked up on this alleged prophesy as the reason people thought we were the Herald of Andraste and thus the end of the world was coming when the Maker and Andraste would return to cleanse the world.
The opening of the Veil as a baleful eye would seem to suggest the Breach which was circular like an eye. Thus why it was assumed that the female figure in the Fade behind us was Andraste and we were the Herald of her imminent return. However, as we know, that was a load of nonsense, the figure in the Fade was the Spirit of Justinia (or a spirit of faith mimicking her), the Mark of Andraste's favour (the anchor) was something bestowed by accident and the Titan that was awakened was soothed back to sleep by Valta. Even when awoken the Titan did not rise up and stride across the land.
If the "prophesy" was a bit jumbled then the "men who were beasts who warred with their brothers" could have been referring to the Witherfang and the werewolves infecting the Dalish of Zathrian's clan, which the Warden was able to stop either by reconciliation or killing one or other of the parties involved.
The Dalish have always taught that Fen'Harel prowled the Fade feasting upon the souls of the dead. The ancient ones who slept could also be the titans and since we have no idea precisely who the Old Gods are: Evanuris/Creators/Forgotten Ones/Titans - it could refer to them.
The nineth sacred mountain upon which rests the mortal dust of Our Lady, which "ascended whole into the heavens" sounds a lot like the Temple of Sacred Ashes at the end of DAI when Corypheus caused it bodily ascend towards the Breach. Considering when the Warden runs the Gauntlet, one of the trials is to pass through fire, this sounds even more like the Temple of Sacred Ashes.
The last part does make me think of Solas' professed plan, at least before he gave his orb to the wrong person, since he said his action would have resulted in the "fires of chaos". However, you also have to remember that it was also the belief of the Promisors that this world was so corrupt the only way for it to be cleansed was by fire and then be reborn. So where did they get their ideas from? Did they believe Drakon's prophesy or was it an earlier belief?
Were perhaps Drakon and the Promisors somehow having their thoughts influenced by a spirit from the Fade? At that time Mythal was still looking for a suitable host. So it is entirely possibly that she put these ideas into their heads as one of her "nudges" of history to get things moving in the direction she desired. Thus the person finally arriving at the gates of Minrathous may actually be Mythal rather than Andraste.
Morrigan is the inheritor of Mythal, so if she was to appear later to fulfil this part of the prophesy it would be as Mythal. It has also been hinted that parts of the Canticle of Shartan seem to be retelling an earlier folktale about Fen'Harel's rebellion against the tyrants of his time, so in that case the desire to reach the gates of Minrathous could be mirroring her desire to reach the gates of Arlathan. Since many Tevinter cities were built on the ruins of the elven empire, it is entirely possible that Minrathous was built on part of Arlathan, possibly even Mythal's domain in it. This could also account for why it has never been taken because of the magic which protects it.
So there are elements there which could be said to fulfil Drakon's prophesy but equally it may never come to pass or differently from how the creature that gave him the vision intended it to.
Would also point out that the terms Abyss and Fade were used interchangeably in that quest in DAI, whereas previously we had been given to understand that the Abyss = Void. However, the Fade and the Void are two completely different things. The Dalish call the Fade "the Beyond", whilst the origin of the Blight is Banalhan, the Place of Nothing, which sounds to me like another way of saying "The Void", which is where Andruil is said to have gone hunting the Forgotten Ones. Mythal does not seem to have had the ability to destroy the Void itself, only the memory of how to find it.
Also the quotation used in the quest is "Here Lies the Abyss, the Well of All Souls, from these Emerald Waters does life begin anew", which again points to it being the Fade. Also the Canticle of Andraste refers to the Maker as the Wellspring of All, yet in the Descent the inner sanctum of the titan is referred to as the Wellspring. So is the Maker a titan?
This is why seeing too much in any part of the Chant of Light is probably a mistake as it is possible to find references to many things we have encountered in it.
As for Sandal's prophesy, again he could have received some sort of idea of what Mythal/Solas intend should happen. He mentioned having been visited in his sleep by a scary lady who sounded a lot like Flemeth. Sandal seems a last survivor of the dwarves to whom she "gave dreams". Most modern dwarves do not dream but according to the verse in Trespasser apparently at one time it would seem Mythal did bestow this ability on them but at the price of cutting them off from the titans.
So, basically, all these prophesies are hints of what certain powers want to happen but it may still be possible to prevent it or mitigate the effects. Otherwise what would be the point if everything is already fated to happen?
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 30, 2018 15:58:37 GMT
Great post! 👌 I agree with others that we likely won't get literal Andraste/the Maker - that's probably just Drakon's interpretation of events as a religious man - but something that could be interpreted that way, or something involving Andraste's daughters' descendents, is not out of the realm of possibility. I find this, The ninth sacred mountain upon which rests The mortal dust of Our Lady ascended Whole into the heavens, to be given high honor In the Realm of Dreams forever. And around it, a chorus of spirits sang: "Whatsoever passes through the fire Is not lost, but made eternal; As air can never be broken nor crushed, The tempered soul is everlasting!"interesting given that the Temple exploded and the Divine became or was emulated by a spirit, to live "forever" (err... or at least until the Nightmare came along, I don't really know). I was also interested in the "ninth sacred mountain", there are currently 9 known mountains in Thedas, Haven was in Frostback Mountains. But the Urn of Andraste or it's remains disappeared before DAI, if the Urn is intact in your DAO save it's suggested that it's currently in Mount Daverus. (couldn't find where Mount Daverus is located) Hence my previous post: Maybe not literally bringing back Andraste or the Maker. The Inquisitor's role of "harbinger of a new age" could be their attempt at searching for power equal to Fen'Harel, the prerequisite to bringing back the Maker according to the Chantry is for the Chant of Light to be sung "from all/four corners of the world". Morrigan being it's "inheritor" could mean that she is a descendant of Andraste or gains her power, by the time of DAI the Urn of Andraste(or what's left of it depending on DAO choices) is gone.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 30, 2018 21:41:20 GMT
I think you would enjoy this lore speculation from eravas on Reddit dragonage. Table of contents to whet your appetite: Part I: importance of the Old Gods and Titans, origin of the Evanuris' godhood Part II: Black City and the Abyss Part III: behind darkspawn and Blights Part IV: who whispered to the magisters Part V: balance and the song of creation
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 31, 2018 17:47:45 GMT
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 10, 2019 17:54:20 GMT
We don't know how "destiny" works in DA, but the concept obviously exists, i assume the classics apply - can see/change other's destiny, but can't see/change their own. Anyway i took a look at Maryden Halewell's songs, maybe the devs dropping hints through her songs?, tho it could be just me going crazy. I will just link to the songs rather than making walls of text. ----------- " I Am The One" is interesting, we first heard it in DAO in "Elvish", but it wasn't written by BioWare so it's not DA's Elvish, however it was translated in DAI. It tells of "The One" that remembers everything and continues to live on, could be the Maker, Fen'Harel, Evanuris, Titans, The Forgotten/Forbidden Ones, etc. What's begun Is the war that will Force this divide.
What's to come Is fire and the end of time. The divide could be about the creation of the Veil, another way to see it is the divide between the Elves and the rest of the mortals of Thedas as part of Fen'Harel's plan. --- " Nightingale's Eyes" obviously about Leliana's role as spymaster and her ravens. We're waiting For someone to speak And set us all free… free. There's a parallel drawn here between Leliana and her ravens, - and Dirthamen, the keeper of secrets and his 2 ravens, Fear and Deceit, who are now without a master. Possibly hinting at the return of Leliana and/or Dirthamen. --- " Inquisitor..." Now how do we follow The battle is all but won Peace can't last forever Guard us from what's to come Now you all shall follow The breach is all but closed Light can't last forever Guard us from darkness to come --- Of course the songs could be about current events and I'm just going crazy.
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Post by gervaise21 on Jan 10, 2019 19:35:26 GMT
If you want a song that seems to predict the future, then this one fills me with a real sense of foreboding:
Mercy for the elves who guard their lives with faith Our hands do weight them down, but their kind hearts will forgive the weight Arlathan fell so deep onto the ocean floor Currents of hate will so challenge their fate
Mercy for the elves who marched with us through fire Stood with Andraste as she rose against the empire Can we pay the cost for the allies we have lost in fear? Our hands of pain will so threaten their name
If we climb through our doubt we can sympathize When the slightest unite, then a giant will rise Slightest unite then a giant may rise
Mercy for the elves who wander through the night Dalish father roams, will the Dalish son survive the fight? How can we deny what their number can supply the Realm?
Slightest unite then a giant will rise When the slightest unite then a giant will rise
Things to note in this song. Arlathan is said to have fallen to the ocean floor. In Dalish lore the city was sunk beneath the earth when it was attacked by Tevinter, except we now know this was but a remnant of the original Arlathan. So did the real Arlathan collapse beneath the ocean when Solas raised the Veil? Do the remains of the original city lie beneath the Nocen Sea? (It is an odd shape even if Seheron was originally a part of the landmass that broke away and Minrathous, which is itself on a island, could possible have been built on elven ruins)
When the slightest unite then a giant will rise could suggest the elves coming together under Fen'Harel and symbolically becoming a giant in power. However, there seems the warning that the Dalish could be the fall guys in all this (unsurprising since it is something of a tradition now for the writers to potentially kill off a Dalish clan each game even if Lavellan clan die only off screen) either because of human reprisals for the actions of the Dread Wolf or they hitch their wagon to the wrong set of elven gods.
Was the singer asking for mercy to be shown for the elves because retribution is near at hand for human ill treatment of them, so it is in the interests of people to show mercy, or because elves are going to become targets because of them either joining the wolf (without necessarily knowing his true plans) or just in revenge for his actions even though they weren't involved?
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Jan 10, 2019 21:29:42 GMT
Yes that's " The Slightest Ones", it's obviously about Elves who fought alongside Andraste. It's the last part that could be telling of the future. Slightest unite then a giant will rise When the slightest unite then a giant will rise -- The part about Arlathan is also interesting, because it's said that Arlathan was swallowed by the ground, and not sinked to the ocean. "Currents of hate will so challenge their fate" could be hinting at Kossith/Qunari involvement, however it's said that Humans came from across the ocean.
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