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Post by Psychevore on Jan 7, 2019 10:29:29 GMT
Hello dear people: I've been thinking about playing a mage and I've decided on a bunch of spells I want to have. I need your help in deciding in what order to choose them. These are the spells: Blood MageBlood Magic Spirit HealerGroup Heal Revival Lifeward Cleansing Aura SpiritMind Blast Force Field Telekinetic Weapons Crushing Prison Mana Drain Mana Cleanse Spell Might CreationHeal Rejuvenate Regeneration Mass Rejuvenation Spell Wisp Glyph of Paralysis Glyph of Warding Glyph of Repulsion PrimalWinter's Grasp Frost Weapons Cone of Cold Blizzard Lightning Shock Tempest EntropyVulnerability Hex Weakness Paralyze Miasma Mass Paralysis A total of 32 spells, which I should reach at level 24 I think (25 spells from levels, 5 spells from tomes, 3 spells from bonus talents through story completion) Spells I have already assigned: Group Heal - level 7 Revival - level 8 Lifeward - Level 12 Cleansing Aura - level 14 Blood Magic - level 15
As these spells are gated behind levels and/or specializations. The rest is all up for decision.
Would love to see your input on order, or even suggestions on other spells.
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Post by mousestalker on Jan 7, 2019 11:51:13 GMT
My only suggestion is that you specialize your mages. Instead of trying to do everything with one, you direct her towards one role. For example, in my last play through, Morrigan was set up for debuffing and crowd control. Wynne was healing and buffing. The PC was offense. Morrigan and Wynne were also set up to provide one half of all the good spell combos. For example, Morrigan and Wynne both had three electricty spells so the warden could quickly do Storm of the Century. They also both had Grease for much the same reason. Everyone had Blood Magic as a specialization with Wynne as a Spirit Healer, Morrigan as a Shapeshifter and the PC as an Arcane Warrior.
Hope that helps!
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Post by Psychevore on Jan 7, 2019 22:17:11 GMT
Yeah, but that's what I've always been doing, having specialized mages and splitting combos. I just want to see if I can do it with one ridiculously powerful mage on nightmare, while the rest of the party attracts aggro (Shale), shatters (Sten or Oghren) and autobackstabs (Zevran). Maybe Zevran can shatter too, but I vaguely recall Coup de Grace making that rather difficult (as it would be an automatic backstab, which isn't a crit) I know it's gonna be tough, but that's the challenge .
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Post by capn233 on Jan 7, 2019 23:01:33 GMT
Generally, I like this build order the best but I tend to make the Warden a damage dealer rather than a supporter:
1 - Flame Blast, Winter's Grasp 2 - Flame Weapons 3 - Fireball 4 - Walking Bomb 5, Joining - Frost Weapons, Cone of Cold 6 - Vulnerability Hex 7 - Specialization Tome - Death Syphon 8 - Virulent Walking Bomb
Has a lot to do with who you fight, and when you fight them. Gives you fire, ice and spirit damage right away for the Fade, then you can do the rest of the origin nearly completely with Fireball and Flame blast. Similarly, Korcari can be done with a ton of Fireballs. The one exception is Gazarath, who is resistant.
When you add CoC at the Joining, you have two good CC powers (Fireball and CoC) for Ishal and makes it easier to use Walking Bomb then it was in the Wilds. Vulnerability is just for bonus damage against the Ogre, but you can swap out Mind Blast there.
Level 7 spec in Lothering, I just grab Combat Magic or Blood Magic here. It really doesn't matter all that much. Combat Magic is very weak except as a way to equip armor, and Blood Magic is also somewhat tricky to use early but potentially pretty powerful. I almost never play SH on Warden, but Group Heal here works.
Now as to the spells in the OP. Obviously I am a big fire proponent, but conceivably you can swap out the Fire for the Electric tree in my order and do ok. I also don't generally bother to pick up the long cast elemental spells (Inferno, Blizzard, Tempest) since I don't like the cast time, nor do I cast Storm of the Century really. Out of any of that, I would just go Inferno, which deals similar DOT to Storm of the Century anyway, but I don't need it since I rely more on Fireballs and (Virulent) Walking Bombs as hammers.
Also a note on Entropy. I played an Entropy focused mage recently just for the hell of it. But honestly unless you want to do it just to do it, there is a lot of stuff in the tree that probably isn't worth worrying about outside of specific circumstances. For instance, Paralyze and Mass Paralysis are really not as good as Glyph of Paralysis and the Paralysis Explosion combo respectively. Since you have the glyph line, I would skip that first Entropy line entirely. Miasma is best left to melee Arcane Warrior. Weakness is weak, IMO.
The hexes are a good line though: the first two for bonus damage, and Misdirection will really hurt Revenants and some other elite melees, but isn't mandatory.
Drain Life is a nice one in Entropy. Heal while dealing spirit damage.
Now onto the Spirit Tree, if you want DPS it is the Bomb line which I already recommended. Although Spell Might is good for temporarily boosting spell power, the mana regen penalty is pretty large. I don't bother many times. However, if you are set on it, might as well pick up Mana Clash since you are already there (in the late teens anyway). If you don't want Mana Clash, I might consider skipping the whole line, since the first two spells are not that great.
Mind Blast line is pretty good, but I think the best two spells are right in the beginning. Mind Blast is good for stun, and Force Field is great for cheese tanking. Telekinetic Weapons has a nice AP bonus, but depending on party composition this may not even matter. Rogues will probably have good AP anyway, as will 2H warriors. Crushing Prison is honestly pretty mediocre, only single target damage and only CC on low tier enemies.
Speaking of which, Blood Wound is basically like Crushing Prison on steroids since it does basically the same thing to any living target in the AOE. Hence I would be more likely to drop TK weapons and CP for the next two skills in the Blood Magic tree.
As far as Creation and the heal / support spells, I would say where they fit is dependent on how much you want the Warden to be support vs how much the character is dps. I actually think the early part of the game is easier going all in on damage as player mage, but others may have their own opinions. Also somewhat depends on if you plan to actually use Blood Magic, and if it is really delayed until 14. Using Blood Sacrifice then Heal or Regen on that party member can net everyone health and is pretty efficient at good spell power.
With those disclaimers out of the way, here is how I would order most of that spell book:
1 - Lightning, Winter's Grasp 2 - Shock 3 - Frost Weapons 4 - Cone of Cold 5, Joining - Mind Blast, Heal 6 - Vulnerability Hex 7 - Spirit Healer / Group Heal Tome - Force Field 8 - Revival* 9 - Glyph of Paralysis 10 - Glyph of Warding 11 - Glyph or Repulsion 12 - Lifeward* 13 - Rejuvenate 14 - Cleansing Aura*, Blood Mage 15 - Blood Magic Tome - Blood Sacrifice Tome - Blood Wound 16 - Regeneration 17 - Mass Rejuvenate 18 - Spell Wisp
*I used the levels you already had, but in actuality I would probably swap those for the rest of the Heal line in those spots since I think they are a little better. You can try to fit in the other primal spells after this.
The first tome I list is the one from Bodahn's first inventory, which you should be able to afford if you are relatively completionist and don't spend too much money early. The others can be purchased earlier than I listed them, if so just move up a slot.
If you don't want to use Blood Magic, I would drop the line and my suggestions there and go with the Fire spells or Walking Bomb line in place of them (although like I said I prefer both of those much earlier).
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Post by Psychevore on Jan 7, 2019 23:33:41 GMT
Nice post. But first, I will not be playing a normal mage origin so anything that's helpful in the Fade at the start is not really relevant. I'll play a Dalish Mage. Also gold is not an issue, I start out with quite a lot of valueable items (I have all the DLC and premium bonuses and whatnot) which can be sold if necessary for tomes. I don't think the long casting time on the AoE's really matters, because I tend to use them out of sight to clear entire areas. Spell Might is pretty much solely for Storm of the Century in the mentioned situation. Cheesy, I know. When this isn't possible I'll rely on Paralysis Explosion and Mass Paralysis. I've also considered dumping the latter, as you have suggested, but I'm not sure about that yet. Crushing Prison is there for an extra option to shatter in case of a really good Cone of Cold, but I'll reconsider that now given your comments. I do like the Shockwave Combo though, on occassion. I don't dip far into the Blood Magic tree as I really only want the first ability in case I run out of mana, desperately need to cast something and have run out of potions for some reason (I'm not that good with inventory management ). I want the mage to be both DPS and support/control, so I'll probably go much less focused in my build up of spells. By the time I'm at camp for the first time I expect to have: 1: Winter's Grasp, Glyph of Paralysis 2: Heal 3: Frost Weapons 4: Cone of Cold 5: Rejuvenate, Glyph of Warding 6: Glyph of Repulsion 7: Regenerate Then get Blizzard for some large scale AoE as soon as possible, work my way to Crushing Prison, then finish Storm of the Centuries. Then see what to do with whatever is left. I expect to reach level 24, so I should be able to cram in a lot.
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