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Post by cmdrshep2183 on Jan 7, 2019 16:22:41 GMT
While I loved Ryder and the crew of the Tempest I thought the Kett were boring. To me they were Organic Reapers/Borg who looked like the Collectors. I am not interested in what the Jaardan looked like whereas in the orginal trilogy I wondered what a Prothean looked like. I did not find the Angarans as interesting as the Milky Way species.
What can be done to rescue the Mass Effect setting? How can Mass Effect get it's sense of wonder back?
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 7, 2019 16:41:39 GMT
If what you saw in Andromeda didn't give you a sense of wonder I don't think BioWare can do anything for you to give it back. I think anything they do even if they continued with Shepard and crew in the Milky Way it would have had the exact same problem. There were a lot of unknowns with Mass Effect and now that they are solved the sense of wonder is gone or at least now I see it.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 7, 2019 18:10:49 GMT
A time jump or better system of travel to other clusters. They need a more developed setting. Right now it’s a big cluster of nothing. Let’s fly to this planet with nothing on it so I can go to my next nothing on it planet etc the entire setting was the unc missions from me1.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 18:20:47 GMT
Send the Ryder Twins, Cora, Suvi, Liam, PeeBee and Jaal out the airlock! Then send the game over to their "A-Team" with all hands on deck to get the job done right.
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Post by samhain444 on Jan 7, 2019 18:27:24 GMT
Send the Ryder Twins, Cora, Suvi, Liam, PeeBee and Jaal out the airlock! Then send the game over to their "A-Team" with all hands on deck to get the job done right. Yeah, I want none of that...except Edmonton working on "Mass Effect Andromeda 2".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 18:59:21 GMT
If what you saw in Andromeda didn't give you a sense of wonder I don't think BioWare can do anything for you to give it back. I think anything they do even if they continued with Shepard and crew in the Milky Way it would have had the exact same problem. There were a lot of unknowns with Mass Effect and now that they are solved the sense of wonder is gone or at least now I see it. The game gave me a sense of wonder alright... ...it made me wonder how they had a 40 million dollar budget and and 5 years of development just to churn out what we got. I don't hate the game but it feels far from a AAA title.
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Post by samhain444 on Jan 7, 2019 19:08:20 GMT
While I loved Ryder and the crew of the Tempest I thought the Kett were boring. To me they were Organic Reapers/Borg who looked like the Collectors. I am not interested in what the Jaardan looked like whereas in the orginal trilogy I wondered what a Prothean looked like. I did not find the Angarans as interesting as the Milky Way species.
What can be done to rescue the Mass Effect setting? How can Mass Effect get it's sense of wonder back?
Nothing is wrong with the setting and I don't agree with much of what was said here..but that is likely the point since the OP is notoriously hit-and-run with these, I doubt there will be much of a follow up. What game needed was better narrative and character writing and "tightening up" on the exploration (more Habitat 7-type levels vs more unfocused exploration) but the setting was fine.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 7, 2019 19:26:58 GMT
If what you saw in Andromeda didn't give you a sense of wonder I don't think BioWare can do anything for you to give it back. I think anything they do even if they continued with Shepard and crew in the Milky Way it would have had the exact same problem. There were a lot of unknowns with Mass Effect and now that they are solved the sense of wonder is gone or at least now I see it. The game gave me a sense of wonder alright... ...it made me wonder how they had a 40 million dollar budget and and 5 years of development just to churn out what we got. I don't hate the game but it feels far from a AAA title. Well comparing it to other games that are similar, I don't think its a AAA title for they normally have more development time and other games its compared to have reported much higher budgets or other circumstances to make the money go further.
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Post by sassafrassa on Jan 8, 2019 3:17:59 GMT
I would totally re-envision the Andromeda Galaxy. I think the mistake the writers and designers made when crafting Andromeda was they never asked this important question,
"If Andromeda has no Reapers then how might it differ from the Milky Way?"
You see the Reapers wipe the slate clean of civilizations every 50,000 years or so. Thousands of civilizations have been destroyed them over millions or even billions of years. What do you suppose the Milky Way would be like if those civilizations hadn't been purged? The current space-faring civilization in the Milky Way, circa 2185, goes about about 3,000 years. However what might a galactic society that is three million years old look like? It can be calculated that even without faster than light travel the human race could colonize every star in the Milky Way in a few million years. So what about when you have species that DO have FTL and also have millions of years to do it? Even without Mass Relays it could be done.
So I envision an Andromeda Galaxy that has several cluster-spanning societies that are millions of years old. Each having evolved in radically different ways and some "separate species" actually being the same species in some cases, having diverged after colonizing distant clusters, cut off from their home worlds. Some species would have long since merged with their technology and become post-organic. Others might live in vast habitats in orbit around stars, massive O'Neil Cylinders and Ring Worlds where they live in a primitive state in a controlled environment, their automated servants protecting them.
I imagine an Andromeda with many very ancient civilizations that have absorbed most every star and cluster in the galaxy... but without Mass Relays. Each cluster is cut off as without the Mass Relays it is possible to still traverse between clusters but it is difficult and hard, with long travel times. Keep in mind in Mass Effect that without Mass Relays even traveling at FTL it would still take many years to traverse the Milky Way galaxy from end to end.
So rather than finding planets to explore I'd have the Andromeda Initiative explore vast alien habitats that are the size of worlds themselves. Artificial constructs in many cases that contain natural environments. I want to drive around on a world where the horizon curves UP and turns into the ceiling. I want to explore the crumbling wreckage of a Dyson Sphere (really it would be as warm of small habitats but in fiction and visually I think a literal shell around a star is more interesting).
With the "Andromedans" lacking Mass Relay technology (or at least not having a universal network of anything resembling it), that could provide the key source of Conflict between the Andromeda Initiative and the natives. The Arks would have had their AI's work on deconstructing simulations of the Conduit while on the journey to Andromeda and so by the time they arrive they have laid out the blue prints necessary for the Arks to begin constructing their own Mass Relays, so that they can claim a few clusters and link them together. So among other tasks like finding necessary resources to survive, the Pathfinder would be deciding where to build the first series of Mass Relays... something that would gain the attention of the locals. They'd want to use the Mass Relays for their own purposes. Some for exploration, some for trade, and some for conquest. It'd be up to the Pathfinder to decide which species to allow access, buying or trading or negotiating for their cooperation. In the worst case scenario, fighting to repel or expel hostiles who want to seize the Mass Relays for themselves.
I envision a game all about politics. The Initiative needs this or that and another race has it. Do you run in and steal it to save on resources? Do you trade something for it? What do you trade? You might trade technology or knowledge or raw resources or you might trade your military prowess, helping them win a war or skirmish. You'd be forced to get embroiled in the local conflicts, trying to pick and choose your allies and enemies carefully. Your resources and strategic holdings being your "currency". The more potent your small military the more easily you can intimidate or otherwise deter hostiles from attacking. The bigger your stores of raw resources the easier you can buy/trade for what you want.
It might be that one race is really eager to trade and is peaceful... but they have an oppressive society that treats even people as currency. Think of the batarians, say. Do you maintain peace and trade with them or is this a case where you resort to force of arms out of principal? The moral path may not be the most prudent. How can you be sure?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 3:32:48 GMT
The game gave me a sense of wonder alright... ...it made me wonder how they had a 40 million dollar budget and and 5 years of development just to churn out what we got. I don't hate the game but it feels far from a AAA title. Well comparing it to other games that are similar, I don't think its a AAA title for they normally have more development time and other games its compared to have reported much higher budgets or other circumstances to make the money go further. 5 years should have been more than enough. Lets look at ME1, 2 and 3 release times... ME1 2007 ME2 2010 ME3 2012 Lets follow that up with DAO, DA2 and DAI DAO 2009 DA2 2011 DAI 2014 There's only 5 years total between the release times not counting of course ME1's and DAO's development time. Andromeda had a full 5 years regardless of how they managed it. My point being that the development time shouldn't have been any issue given Biowares history. Neither should have the change to the Frosbite engine given DAI had no problems getting it done in its time frame.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 8, 2019 4:23:50 GMT
Well comparing it to other games that are similar, I don't think its a AAA title for they normally have more development time and other games its compared to have reported much higher budgets or other circumstances to make the money go further. 5 years should have been more than enough. Lets look at ME1, 2 and 3 release times... ME1 2007 ME2 2010 ME3 2012 Lets follow that up with DAO, DA2 and DAI DAO 2009 DA2 2011 DAI 2014 There's only 5 years total between the release times not counting of course ME1's and DAO's development time. Andromeda had a full 5 years regardless of how they managed it. My point being that the development time shouldn't have been any issue given Biowares history. Neither should have the change to the Frosbite engine given DAI had no problems getting it done in its time frame. They are also drastically different games. Making a game with as much open space as Andromeda has pales in comparison to a corridor shooter that Mass Effect 2 and 3 were and Mass Effect 1 was a barren landscape on the UNC planets.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 8, 2019 4:38:02 GMT
If only ME3 had the time needed for what Bioware originally wanted to make instead of what was released https://www.reddit.com/r/masseffect/comments/1wyz7e/some_interesting_facts_about_me3s_development/
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 4:48:41 GMT
5 years should have been more than enough. Lets look at ME1, 2 and 3 release times... ME1 2007 ME2 2010 ME3 2012 Lets follow that up with DAO, DA2 and DAI DAO 2009 DA2 2011 DAI 2014 There's only 5 years total between the release times not counting of course ME1's and DAO's development time. Andromeda had a full 5 years regardless of how they managed it. My point being that the development time shouldn't have been any issue given Biowares history. Neither should have the change to the Frosbite engine given DAI had no problems getting it done in its time frame. They are also drastically different games. Making a game with as much open space as Andromeda has pales in comparison to a corridor shooter that Mass Effect 2 and 3 were and Mass Effect 1 was a barren landscape on the UNC planets. OK...you're right about the other Mass Effect's what does that also include DAI? That's a pretty damn large game.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 8, 2019 4:57:52 GMT
I'm not sure I would change it, but I would expand it. I would want there to be other native aliens races, rather than just the Angara and the Jardaan. I think something where the Initiative comes into contact with multiple alien races and must balance its political dealings with them (or sway heavily one way or the other) would be interesting. Siding with aliens A and B could make aliens C an enemy, or doing missions for B and A could allow a peace treaty between currently warring races, etc. It would take a lot of writing for different scenarios, but I think Bioware can do it. There could be multiple outcomes for which races you helped, which you spurned, etc. That way you wouldn't really need a central antagonist, just potential antagonists. For the main story you could have something like the race to Meridian or finding a missing Ark (not those stories specifically, obviously, but something that could pull the protagonist through the game toward some kind of singular achievable goal).
In summary, more alien races. More impact on the setting. Aaaand..... Oh more varied flora and fauna between planets. There should be some cool-looking creatures that are specific to certain planets that we can interact with (dangerous ones, ones we could capture to sell or study, some we could make pets, etc).
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 8, 2019 5:10:43 GMT
They are also drastically different games. Making a game with as much open space as Andromeda has pales in comparison to a corridor shooter that Mass Effect 2 and 3 were and Mass Effect 1 was a barren landscape on the UNC planets. OK...you're right about the other Mass Effect's what does that also include DAI? That's a pretty damn large game. True, but at the same time different people working on those games. I am not saying there is a steadfast rule, but when you look at open world style games they normally take longer to make because they need a lot more content made for them. I would think experience probably helped with Inquisition if I had to think about it, for there was talk about how many rookies they had with Andromeda.
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Post by natetrace on Jan 9, 2019 15:18:56 GMT
I still say if we have an Andromeda 2 as long as they introduce five or six new races and a few new clusters they will be fine. I think the Kett have potential and can be expanded upon. I wouldn't change the setting, just add to it. The Quarian ark will arrive with more races on it. Minus the yahg, unless a few were brought, we will have every known and current MW race and the Andromeda races together.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 15:42:22 GMT
I still say if we have an Andromeda 2 as long as they introduce five or six new races and a few new clusters they will be fine. I think the Kett have potential and can be expanded upon. I wouldn't change the setting, just add to it. The Quarian ark will arrive with more races on it. Minus the yahg, unless a few were brought, we will have every known and current MW race and the Andromeda races together. This. I would continue to build onto the Nexus and make it into the Mass Relay it has been hinted at becoming. Meridian and it's tech would also hold new keys to developing a superior means of getting to other clusters within the galaxy quickly.. I would also have one of the new species we meet and ally with be have highly advanced galactic transportation and communication systems and have a massive population living in large cities (perhaps this is the Jardaan). As a result, the antagonist species would also have to be even more advanced, more numerous, etc. to be a worthy antagonist (this could also be the Jardaan since we don't know yet whether they are friend or foe). I would continue to develop the kett in a more threatening foe as well (under the new leadership of Primus, a far more evil individual than the Archon was - so that the Pathfinder was ultiamtely and unknowingly to "blame" for making matters worse with the Heleus cluster.
The setting art of the galaxy is stunning already. The scourge is a "darkly beautiful" phenomenon along with the clear presence of nebulae and black holes and a variety of planet and star types... waay superior to the renderings of the MW galaxy.
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Post by jrpN7 on Jan 9, 2019 21:12:14 GMT
How would I change the Andromeda setting?
Probably by removing the Andromeda setting completely and replacing it with the rightful setting of the Milky Way for starters.
Only slightly bitter.
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Post by NotN7 on Jan 10, 2019 0:02:39 GMT
I still say if we have an Andromeda 2 as long as they introduce five or six new races and a few new clusters they will be fine. I think the Kett have potential and can be expanded upon. I wouldn't change the setting, just add to it. The Quarian ark will arrive with more races on it. Minus the yahg, unless a few were brought, we will have every known and current MW race and the Andromeda races together. I would like to add to that, its obvious that where we ended up in Andromeda that it was a product of the jarrdan except for the Kett and the opposition to me that means that elsewhere in Andromeda we will find the Kett's origin's plus the Jarrdans (and various wildlife we have seen) and not to mention other races the the Kett have yet to encounter. <iframe width="23.96" height="3.36" id="MoatPxIOPT0_91412144" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px; width: 23.96px; height: 3.36px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.96" height="3.36" id="MoatPxIOPT0_3570245" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px; width: 23.96px; height: 3.36px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.96" height="3.36" id="MoatPxIOPT0_56052831" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 108px; width: 23.96px; height: 3.36px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> <iframe width="23.96" height="3.36" id="MoatPxIOPT0_39425776" scrolling="no" style="border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 108px; width: 23.96px; height: 3.36px; position: absolute; z-index: -9999;"></iframe> so with that said lets explore further into Andromeda.
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Post by 10k on Jan 10, 2019 17:17:38 GMT
A time jump or better system of travel to other clusters. They need a more developed setting. Right now it’s a big cluster of nothing. Let’s fly to this planet with nothing on it so I can go to my next nothing on it planet etc the entire setting was the unc missions from me1. Yes I agree. Andromeda needs more civilizations and culture. It needs more aliens and more life. Look at ME2; the hub worlds of Omega, illium, even the questing hubs were full of atmosphere. Andromeda was barren. My favorite part of Andromeda was at the very beginning with ryder father, the captain, and Cora. There was a sense of wonder there, but once we dropped down to the first planet there was nothing. None of the worlds were memorable, I can't remember the name of even 1. If you asked me what was my favorite planet to visit in ME1, a game that I haven't played in about 3 years, I can tell you Noveria. Noveria had backstory, characters, atmosphere, and culture. I thought Andromeda was going to be about meeting another galactic society, and trying to claim a piece of it for humanity. I was ready to meet Andromeda's leaders, but they don't have any. As I see it MEA2 will most likely become a MW 2.0. There is no established central government, and mostly likely the people who was heading the Andromeda project or whatever, will become the leaders of Andromeda in MEA2. Those are my thoughts anyway
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 10, 2019 17:22:46 GMT
In summary, more alien races. More impact on the setting. Aaaand..... Oh more varied flora and fauna between planets. There should be some cool-looking creatures that are specific to certain planets that we can interact with (dangerous ones, ones we could capture to sell or study, some we could make pets, etc). The more alien races could be cool. Maybe if they move beyond the Heleus Cluster it would be possible. Or if we discovered that the kett had been hording various beings (sentient, animal and plant) we could set them free. I would love to see a plant-based sentient being that is maybe telepathic and mind controls others into doing their bidding. Similar to the hanar, I suppose, but with a more sinister bent.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 10, 2019 17:43:54 GMT
In summary, more alien races. More impact on the setting. Aaaand..... Oh more varied flora and fauna between planets. There should be some cool-looking creatures that are specific to certain planets that we can interact with (dangerous ones, ones we could capture to sell or study, some we could make pets, etc). The more alien races could be cool. Maybe if they move beyond the Heleus Cluster it would be possible. Or if we discovered that the kett had been hording various beings (sentient, animal and plant) we could set them free. I would love to see a plant-based sentient being that is maybe telepathic and mind controls others into doing their bidding. Similar to the hanar, I suppose, but with a more sinister bent. Well, we can learn that the Kett have at least three servant races. You just described the Thorian.
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Post by dmc1001 on Jan 10, 2019 18:33:12 GMT
The more alien races could be cool. Maybe if they move beyond the Heleus Cluster it would be possible. Or if we discovered that the kett had been hording various beings (sentient, animal and plant) we could set them free. I would love to see a plant-based sentient being that is maybe telepathic and mind controls others into doing their bidding. Similar to the hanar, I suppose, but with a more sinister bent. Well, we can learn that the Kett have at least three servant races. You just described the Thorian. Damn, I did, didn't I. Lol. Maybe they could have the slave races tote them around.
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monkeylungs
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by monkeylungs on Jan 11, 2019 11:07:42 GMT
They didn't spend the entire 5 years on what we got as a product in Andromeda. I think they went through some rough patches in development.
EDIT: I would just change the fact that they decided to abandon it. I love ME: Andromeda!
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In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jan 11, 2019 15:41:15 GMT
Gasoline and a road flare
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