ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 18, 2019 14:38:32 GMT
That is the problem with user reviews for they are too light on details. I normally don't care what the final score is, its the content of the review that matters for me. Its the same with movies for the reviewer might absolutely hate what they are reviewing, but after hearing their reasons I know I will like it and of course the reverse is true too. Sure but for a big game there might be a 1000 reviews. It’s not that hard to scroll through to find ones with details. I find that user reviews frequently hit upon pluses and negatives that professional reviewers won’t or will gloss over, so I find value in both as long as you are willing to sort through them. And both user and professional need sorting. The less I value $60 the less I bother with either outside entertainment value from reviewers like angry joe.
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 18, 2019 14:52:13 GMT
That is the problem with user reviews for they are too light on details. I normally don't care what the final score is, its the content of the review that matters for me. Its the same with movies for the reviewer might absolutely hate what they are reviewing, but after hearing their reasons I know I will like it and of course the reverse is true too. Sure but for a big game there might be a 1000 reviews. It’s not that hard to scroll through to find ones with details. I find that user reviews frequently hit upon pluses and negatives that professional reviewers won’t or will gloss over, so I find value in both as long as you are willing to sort through them. And both user and professional need sorting. The less I value $60 the less I bother with either outside entertainment value from reviewers like angry joe. I never meant to imply all user reviews are not worthwhile, its that they tend to lack context overall. To me written reviews are what I look for because I know its not someone looking for YouTube revenue by just echoing what social media is saying about the game.
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Cyberstrike
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is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 18, 2019 20:53:24 GMT
User scores and sites like Steam, Metacritic, and Rotten Tomatoes are TRASH anyone who believes the non-critic reviews are just plain old fucking STUPID.
It's not about making a conclusion if he game is good or not, but if in a general consensus, people liked it or not. For that, these websites can be useful. More useful than a forum anyway. Steam even more, because the chance the person actually played the game is higher, since the person must have the game on the library to review it. The quality of the review doesn't really matter, what matters is if the person liked it or not.
I trust general consensus even less than I trust idiot user scores. I will take a professional review over a user review (including my own) any day of week. I've been burned and ripped off by general consensus and user scores a lot more than I've been by professional reviews, also I know what I like and don't like and I don't give a fuck about the opinions of idiots who are mad that MEA didn't fix the endings to ME3 or crying because they scared about "SJWs" and "feminists" that scares these cowardly braindead shit gargling fuckwits at the moment.
I have a pretty good idea what I like and don't like and 98% of the time I can tell by a trailer and a basic description if I'm going to like a game, movie, TV show, and etc. If other people do great if they don't that is great until they insult me and people who like the same media that is when we have a problem.
You've made your point and I have made mine and lets leave it there. There is nothing left to be said and I don't have the patience with these pointless circular debate/arguments with people like you anymore, because frankly I find it boring as hell and second I could have a better debate/argument with my wall.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 18, 2019 20:56:57 GMT
It's not about making a conclusion if he game is good or not, but if in a general consensus, people liked it or not. For that, these websites can be useful. More useful than a forum anyway. Steam even more, because the chance the person actually played the game is higher, since the person must have the game on the library to review it. The quality of the review doesn't really matter, what matters is if the person liked it or not.
I trust group consensus even less than I trust idiot user scores. I will take a professional review over a user review (including my own) any day of week.
Well, on the "professional" reviews, Andromeda didn't make good either. But critics tend to review AAA games higher, even if they are bad, just for the sake of being AAA. It's really rare to see an AAA game, even a really bad one, get a score of below 60. It'd have to fall as low as Fallout 76 did. But we weren't talking about if the reviews are good or not, we were talking if, generally, people didn't like the game. And everything points PEOPLE GENERALLY DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME, and that's a fact, fanboys want it or not.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jan 18, 2019 21:48:27 GMT
I trust group consensus even less than I trust idiot user scores. I will take a professional review over a user review (including my own) any day of week.
Well, on the "professional" reviews, Andromeda didn't make good either. But critics tend to review AAA games higher, even if they are bad, just for the sake of being AAA. It's really rare to see an AAA game, even a really bad one, get a score of below 60. It'd have to fall as low as Fallout 76 did. But we weren't talking about if the reviews are good or not, we were talking if, generally, people didn't like the game. And everything points PEOPLE GENERALLY DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME, and that's a fact, fanboys want it or not.
Let me make these as simple as I can so you can understand it: I FUCKING KNOW THAT AND GUESS WHAT? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!
And now let me tell you something else, no one, and let me make this crystal fucking clear here: NO ONE PUT A GUN TO MY HEAD AND FORCED ME TO BUY OR LIKE MEA!
I liked it because it is IN MY HONEST OPINION A GOOD FUCKING GAME! I had a lot fun playing the SP mode, more than I thought I would. Why is that so fucking hard for people like you to understand?
I am sick and tied of people telling me that what media to love and hate. I have had more fun playing MEA than any other BioWare game and I've played most of them, multiple times. What is your problem with me publicly stating I like a game that the "general consensus" doesn't like? Are you jealous that I get pure joy out of a game that you can't? Because why are you wasting your life trolling a BioWare FAN forum about how much you hate MEA? Play another game. Watch a movie, TV show, play, YouTube, or sports. Read a book or comic book series. Why are you wasting your life focusing on something that you hate and trying to ruin the fun of others or to quote William Shatner: "GET A LIFE!"
Look it's not big secret around here that I hated The Witcher 2 so much that it pretty much soured me on TW3 (along with some it's ultra hardcore fans that are here being huge assholes) and when CDPR announced that Cyberpunk 2077 would be a First Person Perspective game that pretty much killed any interest in it for me, but I don't go to CDPR forums here or at other video game message boards bitching about how I hated a game that a lot of people seemed to enjoy. Because in this shitty fucked up world, we should all take whatever happiness in any media that we can before we die. If people here like TW3 for an example and aren't being an asshole about it to me (and I have a few friends who are), then why should I be an asshole to them because I don't like it?
At the end of the day the stuff I hate isn't worth my time to dwell on it, anymore than I have to and why should I try to ruin their enjoyment of people who do enjoy the media that I don't like.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jan 18, 2019 21:58:31 GMT
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 18, 2019 22:04:46 GMT
Well, on the "professional" reviews, Andromeda didn't make good either. But critics tend to review AAA games higher, even if they are bad, just for the sake of being AAA. It's really rare to see an AAA game, even a really bad one, get a score of below 60. It'd have to fall as low as Fallout 76 did. But we weren't talking about if the reviews are good or not, we were talking if, generally, people didn't like the game. And everything points PEOPLE GENERALLY DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME, and that's a fact, fanboys want it or not.
Let me make these as simple as I can so you can understand it: I FUCKING KNOW THAT AND GUESS WHAT? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!
And now let me tell you something, No one, and let me make this crystal fucking clear here: NO ONE PUT A GUN TO MY HEAD AND FORCED ME TO BUY OR LIKE MEA!
I liked it because it is IN MY HONEST OPINION A GOOD FUCKING GAME! I had a lot fun playing the SP mode, more than I thought I would.
Why is that so fucking hard for people like you to understand?
I am sick and tied of people telling me that what media to love and hate, I have my own mind and tastes and that is all I need. I have had more fun playing MEA than any other BioWare game and I've played most of them, multiple times. What is your problem with me publicly stating I like a game that the "general consensus" doesn't like?
Are you jealous that I get pure joy out of a game that you can't? Because why are you wasting your life trolling a BioWare FAN forum about how much you hate MEA? Play another game. Watch a movie, TV show, play, YouTube, or sports. Read a book or comic book series. Why are you wasting your life focusing on something that you hate and trying to ruin the fun of others?
I hated The Witcher 2 so much it pretty much soured me on TW3 (along with some it's fans here being assholes) and CDPR making Cyberpunk 2077 a FPP game killed it for me, but I don't go to CDPR forums here or at other video game message boards bitching about how I hated a game that a lot of people seemed to enjoy.
Because in this shitty fucked up world, I will take whatever happiness in any media that I can before I die.
It seems someone needs a FUCKING chamomile tea. If you can't FUCKING read what the FUCKING discussion is FUCKING about on the FUCKING thread, I won't waste my FUCKING breath with a FUCKING crying baby.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Jan 18, 2019 22:30:44 GMT
Well, on the "professional" reviews, Andromeda didn't make good either. But critics tend to review AAA games higher, even if they are bad, just for the sake of being AAA. It's really rare to see an AAA game, even a really bad one, get a score of below 60. It'd have to fall as low as Fallout 76 did. But we weren't talking about if the reviews are good or not, we were talking if, generally, people didn't like the game. And everything points PEOPLE GENERALLY DIDN'T LIKE THE GAME, and that's a fact, fanboys want it or not.
Let me make these as simple as I can so you can understand it: I FUCKING KNOW THAT AND GUESS WHAT? I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!
And now let me tell you something else, no one, and let me make this crystal fucking clear here: NO ONE PUT A GUN TO MY HEAD AND FORCED ME TO BUY OR LIKE MEA!
I liked it because it is IN MY HONEST OPINION A GOOD FUCKING GAME! I had a lot fun playing the SP mode, more than I thought I would. Why is that so fucking hard for people like you to understand?
I am sick and tied of people telling me that what media to love and hate. I have had more fun playing MEA than any other BioWare game and I've played most of them, multiple times. What is your problem with me publicly stating I like a game that the "general consensus" doesn't like? Are you jealous that I get pure joy out of a game that you can't? Because why are you wasting your life trolling a BioWare FAN forum about how much you hate MEA? Play another game. Watch a movie, TV show, play, YouTube, or sports. Read a book or comic book series. Why are you wasting your life focusing on something that you hate and trying to ruin the fun of others or to quote William Shatner: "GET A LIFE!"
Look it's not big secret around here that I hated The Witcher 2 so much that it pretty much soured me on TW3 (along with some it's ultra hardcore fans that are here being huge assholes) and when CDPR announced that Cyberpunk 2077 would be a First Person Perspective game that pretty much killed any interest in it for me, but I don't go to CDPR forums here or at other video game message boards bitching about how I hated a game that a lot of people seemed to enjoy. Because in this shitty fucked up world, we should all take whatever happiness in any media that we can before we die. If people here like TW3 for an example and aren't being an asshole about it to me (and I have a few friends who are), then why should I be an asshole to them because I don't like it?
At the end of the day the stuff I hate isn't worth my time to dwell on it, anymore than I have to and why should I try to ruin their enjoyment of people who do enjoy the media that I don't like.
100% agree. I never really understand why people shi*tpost about what other people like to such an extreme degree. I can understand right after MEA came out, people who were excited about it and then were disappointed coming to forums and Reddit to say what they didn't like and what changes they would make. But man, you know how many games have come out since MEA? You'd think people who hated it would find things they enjoyed to talk about! It just doesn't make much sense years later to still be trying to force others into the opinion that "MEA is bad!" just because they didn't like it. And of course I'll still state the obvious of this topic: Poor reviews for a game do not mean poor reviews for the game setting or story. People could have all sorts of reasons to dislike MEA ("My face is tired", crab-walk glitch, other glitches, "It's not Shep!", ME3-endings, EA sucks, etc) that would cause them to score their reviews low. However, that doesn't mean the setting is seen as bad. Even in professional reviews where for the most part the "EA sucks" and "Not my Shep" bias doesn't creep in, a poor review can be for many things besides the setting.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jan 18, 2019 22:32:51 GMT
People are entitled to have their opinions either pro or against and we can handle the odd grumpy exchange. However, there are limits and this thread needs to calm down now before things get more personal that they are already getting. Back to chilled and back on track, people.
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 18, 2019 22:51:28 GMT
The discussion was never if Andromeda was good or not. What I said on the beginning was, if they should make a sequel, they should ditch Ryder and his crew. Some disagreed and I said their opinion didn't matter because the majority didn't like Andromeda, so if Bioware tried to follow with that, even if they liked it, it would be another bad failure. Then they tried to argue that Andromeda was actually a success and people would miss Ryder, and just denied every argument that showed the other way.
Then there is this rant that came out of nowhere like the point was if MEA was good or not or if you could enjoy it or not. It wasn't.
Point is, coming back to the thread: If Bioware wants to make a good, acclaimed Mass Effect again (which is really the point of the thread), they will have to fix a lot of things that people didn't like in Andromeda (including Ryder and his crew), no matter how much fanboys loved it.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 19, 2019 0:16:31 GMT
Then there is this rant that came out of nowhere like the point was if MEA was good or not or if you could enjoy it or not. It wasn't. Andromeda had flaws, but it wasn't a bad game. I rather enjoyed playing it and was sad we didn't get more DLC to expand or improve upon the story. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryder and the Tempest crew again either, as aside from one or two issues, I largely enjoyed most of their characters and storylines.
I'm not going to argue that some people didn't like Andromeda, because they're allowed to have not enjoyed it. But I feel that much like DA2, the criticism towards MEA was a tad overblown and overdramatic. It wasn't a perfect game and it could easily have been better than it was, but neither was it as awful as some people insist it was.
Again, if I had to describe MEA (or DA2), it would be "Flawed, but with the potential to have been great".
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 19, 2019 0:38:47 GMT
Then there is this rant that came out of nowhere like the point was if MEA was good or not or if you could enjoy it or not. It wasn't. Andromeda had flaws, but it wasn't a bad game. I rather enjoyed playing it and was sad we didn't get more DLC to expand or improve upon the story. I wouldn't mind seeing Ryder and the Tempest crew again either, as aside from one or two issues, I largely enjoyed most of their characters and storylines.
I'm not going to argue that some people didn't like Andromeda, because they're allowed to have not enjoyed it. But I feel that much like DA2, the criticism towards MEA was a tad overblown and overdramatic. It wasn't a perfect game and it could easily have been better than it was, but neither was it as awful as some people insist it was.
Again, if I had to describe MEA (or DA2), it would be "Flawed, but with the potential to have been great".
MEA received much more hate than DA2 (which was right, because it really is a much worse game). DA2, although not nearly as good as Origins, was decent, a 7 or 7.5/10 I would say. The main problem is that it was really a rushed game (it was released 1.5 years after Origins, while Andromeda was release almost 5 years after ME3). You might have enjoyed playing it, but most people clearly didn't, and if Bioware goes for that route, another failure is coming. To me, it was good they didn't waste time nor resources with DLC for this, they should really focus their time and resources on good things. Personally, I'd rate ME:A a 3 or 4/10 I mean, not only they didn't release any DLC, they completely abandoned it, they didn't even patch it anymore. Andromeda got what, 10 patches and then abandoned? I've seen worse games get more patches. I think even Bioware must have acknowledged what Andromeda had no salvation and that they would have to fix everything the next game. If the problem was only the gameplay, they might have fixed it, but the story and characters as a whole were hugely flawed. The Andromeda Project felt like they gathered the Milky Way's biggest idiots and made them go to another galaxy so they wouldn't screw up on the fight against the Reapers.
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Post by Sifr on Jan 19, 2019 1:16:16 GMT
MEA received much more hate than DA2 (which was right, because it really is a much worse game). DA2, although not nearly as good as Origins, was decent, a 7 or 7.5/10 I would say. The main problem is that it was really a rushed game (it was released 1.5 years after Origins, while Andromeda was release almost 5 years after ME3). You might have enjoyed playing it, but most people clearly didn't, and if Bioware goes for that route, another failure is coming. To me, it was good they didn't waste time nor resources with DLC for this, they should really focus their time and resources on good things. Personally, I'd rate ME:A a 3 or 4/10 I mean, not only they didn't release any DLC, they completely abandoned it, they didn't even patch it anymore. Andromeda got what, 10 patches and then abandoned? I've seen worse games get more patches. I think even Bioware must have acknowledged what Andromeda had no salvation and that they would have to fix everything the next game. If the problem was only the gameplay, they might have fixed it, but the story and characters as a whole were hugely flawed. The Andromeda Project felt like they gathered the Milky Way's biggest idiots and made them go to another galaxy so they wouldn't screw up on the fight against the Reapers. I do agree that Bioware basically abandoned MEA.
When you hear the rumours about the troubled production and revolving door of staff members coming in, doing their assigned work and then leaving immediately afterwards, that doesn't suggest it was a fun work environment. I have a feeling that when MEA underperformed, no-one wanted to try to salvage the project, because everyone involved just wanted it to be done.
That's the biggest shame about about MEA, that from the development team to the fandom, it doesn't really seem that anyone really had much faith in the project. Whatever excitement people did have when going into it, seems to have been quickly snuffed out.
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Go Team!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 19, 2019 14:53:54 GMT
While I loved Ryder and the crew of the Tempest I thought the Kett were boring. To me they were Organic Reapers/Borg who looked like the Collectors. I am not interested in what the Jaardan looked like whereas in the orginal trilogy I wondered what a Prothean looked like. I did not find the Angarans as interesting as the Milky Way species.
What can be done to rescue the Mass Effect setting? How can Mass Effect get it's sense of wonder back?
Nothing is wrong with the setting and I don't agree with much of what was said here..but that is likely the point since the OP is notoriously hit-and-run with these, I doubt there will be much of a follow up. What game needed was better narrative and character writing and "tightening up" on the exploration (more Habitat 7-type levels vs more unfocused exploration) but the setting was fine. Yeah exactly for me for MEA hte ideas weren't bad it was more the execution of those ideas that went wrong but for me this is all MEA needed imo.
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 20, 2019 20:07:30 GMT
If what you saw in Andromeda didn't give you a sense of wonder I don't think BioWare can do anything for you to give it back. I think anything they do even if they continued with Shepard and crew in the Milky Way it would have had the exact same problem. There were a lot of unknowns with Mass Effect and now that they are solved the sense of wonder is gone or at least now I see it. TBF, there was nothing in Andromeda to get excited about.
Kett are boring, Archon is completely forgettable, Angarans were suppose to be the big mysterious race and five minutes later you are talking to them in galactic universal.
Had the writing been better, BioWare could have rekindled that feeling of wonder/excitement/dread.
Hell, it would have been even better if the reason the Kett/Angarans were attacking you was because you were the colonizing invaders and they were victims of many attempts at colonization.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 20, 2019 20:16:40 GMT
If what you saw in Andromeda didn't give you a sense of wonder I don't think BioWare can do anything for you to give it back. I think anything they do even if they continued with Shepard and crew in the Milky Way it would have had the exact same problem. There were a lot of unknowns with Mass Effect and now that they are solved the sense of wonder is gone or at least now I see it. TBF, there was nothing in Andromeda to get excited about.
Kett are boring, Archon is completely forgettable, Angarans were suppose to be the big mysterious race and five minutes later you are talking to them in galactic universal.
Had the writing been better, BioWare could have rekindled that feeling of wonder/excitement/dread.
Hell, it would have been even better if the reason the Kett/Angarans were attacking you was because you were the colonizing invaders and they were victims of many attempts at colonization.
Its the same with ME2 and ME3. There was nothing interesting about the collectors or cerberus and the reapers were never there except when you needed a juggernaut to do something, there was no real enemy leader in ME2 just a big baby to shoot a lot at the end with no major confrontation. To me the writing is the same across all the games, for its all chopped up to give players their choices to make so its hard to really tell good writing or bad for me. I know people claim the companions are what makes ME2 good, but the number of them is what distracts people for they only have to write a small blurb for each character and not have to space it out. For I bet if they had five or six companions in ME2 and triple the time they wouldn't have been any better then the archtypes we got in ME1.
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anarchy65
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 891 Likes: 1,080
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anarchy65
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 20, 2019 21:08:37 GMT
TBF, there was nothing in Andromeda to get excited about.
Kett are boring, Archon is completely forgettable, Angarans were suppose to be the big mysterious race and five minutes later you are talking to them in galactic universal.
Had the writing been better, BioWare could have rekindled that feeling of wonder/excitement/dread.
Hell, it would have been even better if the reason the Kett/Angarans were attacking you was because you were the colonizing invaders and they were victims of many attempts at colonization.
Its the same with ME2 and ME3. There was nothing interesting about the collectors or cerberus and the reapers were never there except when you needed a juggernaut to do something, there was no real enemy leader in ME2 just a big baby to shoot a lot at the end with no major confrontation. To me the writing is the same across all the games, for its all chopped up to give players their choices to make so its hard to really tell good writing or bad for me. I know people claim the companions are what makes ME2 good, but the number of them is what distracts people for they only have to write a small blurb for each character and not have to space it out. For I bet if they had five or six companions in ME2 and triple the time they wouldn't have been any better then the archtypes we got in ME1. There may not have been much interesting things about collectors or cerberus, but you got other interesting races that weren't much developed on the first game: quarians, geth, krogans, drell, etc. The talks with Legion and his missions are one of the best things in the game. Characters were much more developed as well. Tali on ME1 was basically a VI with information about the quarians, on this game her character is much more developed. Some characters have few dialogues (like Garrus, and even so he is one of the best characters), but others have really interesting talks (especially Thane and Legion IMO) Side missions in Andromeda were just to show how boring the kett, angarans and everybody there were (and to show how stupid your squadmates are) You may say "but the main story wasn't interesting in ME2", well, the main story was never Bioware's strongest. I mean, there is no Mass Effect game that the main story is actually very good and has a good main villain (maybe ME1 with Saren). Even Dragon Age has poor "main stories" (except maybe for Origins because there is a bit of nice politics). And, of course, although there was no "big villain", the final mission was the best ever. Even today people still ask why we don't have another final mission like that. Bioware's latest games' final missions are really poor (especially DA:I). Also, ME1 and 2's characters made such success that Andromeda totally tried to copy some of them (without success). Drack is basically an attempt to make old Wrex and Vetra is an attempt to make a female Garrus (she even has an eye machine similar to his)
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Rendering planets viable since 2017
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serza
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Serza on Jan 20, 2019 23:09:46 GMT
They told us that we'd have a morally grey antagonist. Someone we can sympathize with.
Have the Kett revere Ryder for getting them rid of a madman who only served himself.
Show us why exactly they consider exaltation a gift. If they gave it a thought, there is a reason. The question is... why weren't we told? Is it because this is the first BW game in over a decade that did not get DLC, or is it because there is none?
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Just a flip of the coin.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 20, 2019 23:16:47 GMT
Its the same with ME2 and ME3. There was nothing interesting about the collectors or cerberus and the reapers were never there except when you needed a juggernaut to do something, there was no real enemy leader in ME2 just a big baby to shoot a lot at the end with no major confrontation. To me the writing is the same across all the games, for its all chopped up to give players their choices to make so its hard to really tell good writing or bad for me. I know people claim the companions are what makes ME2 good, but the number of them is what distracts people for they only have to write a small blurb for each character and not have to space it out. For I bet if they had five or six companions in ME2 and triple the time they wouldn't have been any better then the archtypes we got in ME1. There may not have been much interesting things about collectors or cerberus, but you got other interesting races that weren't much developed on the first game: quarians, geth, krogans, drell, etc. The talks with Legion and his missions are one of the best things in the game. Characters were much more developed as well. Tali on ME1 was basically a VI with information about the quarians, on this game her character is much more developed. Some characters have few dialogues (like Garrus, and even so he is one of the best characters), but others have really interesting talks (especially Thane and Legion IMO) Side missions in Andromeda were just to show how boring the kett, angarans and everybody there were (and to show how stupid your squadmates are) You may say "but the main story wasn't interesting in ME2", well, the main story was never Bioware's strongest. I mean, there is no Mass Effect game that the main story is actually very good and has a good main villain (maybe ME1 with Saren). Even Dragon Age has poor "main stories" (except maybe for Origins because there is a bit of nice politics). And, of course, although there was no "big villain", the final mission was the best ever. Even today people still ask why we don't have another final mission like that. Bioware's latest games' final missions are really poor (especially DA:I). Also, ME1 and 2's characters made such success that Andromeda totally tried to copy some of them (without success). Drack is basically an attempt to make old Wrex and Vetra is an attempt to make a female Garrus (she even has an eye machine similar to his) If the main story was never BioWare's strong suit then why do people complain about it now with only using Andromeda as an example. Want to complain about characters fine and we can debate that, but a full blanket "the story was bad" when BioWare never writes a good main story doesn't make sense which is what I was trying to make the comparison too. The thing about ME2 is that it threw a lot of unrelated content at us to give us what at least to me looks like a lot of information, but there was very little time spent on it. I think it would have felt the same with ME1 or ME3 if they had 11 companions that they had to give around a dozen (a guess) lines of conversation with. That is the thing that bothers me with current thinking on BioWare games, the reason why ME1 worked is it is a short game and the reason why ME2 worked was because it was a lot of short stories about your squad members, but the main story was about two or maybe three of those short stories and each of those main missions were a different short story too. So if it was about a squad member it was more detailed and interesting, but if it wasn't about them it was bland and boring. Now it might be me looking for a reason, but I am left wondering the more time they are spending on romances takes away the interaction with characters because wasn't twelve romance options across the game by the end and thirteen when you add in the altered Javik? For all of that needs to be written and animated in the game so that time has to come from somewhere that they spent it on in the past. As far as the no "big bad" the conversations I hear and it could just be my interpretation is that people liked the buildup to him because it involved choices made in the game and dire consequences if you make a wrong choice, which probably won't happen again unfortunately unless they completely write off characters even if they survive. I did hear my share of complaints about Reaper Baby. If anything the best boss fight in Mass Effect for me to this day is in Lair of the Shadow Broker against the Vanguard Asari.
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anarchy65
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by anarchy65 on Jan 20, 2019 23:31:07 GMT
There may not have been much interesting things about collectors or cerberus, but you got other interesting races that weren't much developed on the first game: quarians, geth, krogans, drell, etc. The talks with Legion and his missions are one of the best things in the game. Characters were much more developed as well. Tali on ME1 was basically a VI with information about the quarians, on this game her character is much more developed. Some characters have few dialogues (like Garrus, and even so he is one of the best characters), but others have really interesting talks (especially Thane and Legion IMO) Side missions in Andromeda were just to show how boring the kett, angarans and everybody there were (and to show how stupid your squadmates are) You may say "but the main story wasn't interesting in ME2", well, the main story was never Bioware's strongest. I mean, there is no Mass Effect game that the main story is actually very good and has a good main villain (maybe ME1 with Saren). Even Dragon Age has poor "main stories" (except maybe for Origins because there is a bit of nice politics). And, of course, although there was no "big villain", the final mission was the best ever. Even today people still ask why we don't have another final mission like that. Bioware's latest games' final missions are really poor (especially DA:I). Also, ME1 and 2's characters made such success that Andromeda totally tried to copy some of them (without success). Drack is basically an attempt to make old Wrex and Vetra is an attempt to make a female Garrus (she even has an eye machine similar to his) If the main story was never BioWare's strong suit then why do people complain about it now with only using Andromeda as an example. Want to complain about characters fine and we can debate that, but a full blanket "the story was bad" when BioWare never writes a good main story doesn't make sense which is what I was trying to make the comparison too. The thing about ME2 is that it threw a lot of unrelated content at us to give us what at least to me looks like a lot of information, but there was very little time spent on it. I think it would have felt the same with ME1 or ME3 if they had 11 companions that they had to give around a dozen (a guess) lines of conversation with. That is the thing that bothers me with current thinking on BioWare games, the reason why ME1 worked is it is a short game and the reason why ME2 worked was because it was a lot of short stories about your squad members, but the main story was about two or maybe three of those short stories and each of those main missions were a different short story too. So if it was about a squad member it was more detailed and interesting, but if it wasn't about them it was bland and boring. Now it might be me looking for a reason, but I am left wondering the more time they are spending on romances takes away the interaction with characters because wasn't twelve romance options across the game by the end and thirteen when you add in the altered Javik? For all of that needs to be written and animated in the game so that time has to come from somewhere that they spent it on in the past. As far as the no "big bad" the conversations I hear and it could just be my interpretation is that people liked the buildup to him because it involved choices made in the game and dire consequences if you make a wrong choice, which probably won't happen again unfortunately unless they completely write off characters even if they survive. I did hear my share of complaints about Reaper Baby. If anything the best boss fight in Mass Effect for me to this day is in Lair of the Shadow Broker against the Vanguard Asari. Because in Andromeda everything is weak. Simple. The main story is bad and also doesn't make absolutely ANY sense (that was one of the main complains about ME3 ending, it didn't make any sense), but the worst of Andromeda are the characters (they are all absurdely STUPID besides being boring). Also, the villain weren't compelling (The Reapers were much more). But, since Andromeda has a great focus on the crew and the crew SUCKS, well, it doesn't have much more to offer. When you put that plus the boring new races, the nonsense galaxy set and boring exploration, you have a bad game. No, if it wasn't about a squadmate it was good as well (especially in the DLCs), it just wasn't the big focus of the game: like I said, it isn't so in any Bioware game. And the problem with Andromeda, as I said, is noy only a worse main story than any Bioware game, but, as always, a big focus on characters and side stories and then these stories suck and the characters are absurdely terrible. I do think there are companions that got "more lines" than others, but they did a great job developing them all. And sorry to say it, but these huge paragraph of yours didn't make much sense to me, could you write a bit more coherent? I could barely understand what I was reading, I had to reread it many times to get a grasp on what your argument was all about. And yeah, I wasn't talking about a good boss fight, but really because of the choices you have to make, logical choices a leader have to make when he has a squad and that they may end up dying if he makes the wrong choice. To me, it's much better than a rushed boss fight that ends in 15 minutes like, for example, in Dragon Age: Inquisition.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Jan 20, 2019 23:51:11 GMT
I think the thing about the main story is a game like ME2 if you think about it has a pretty dumb story. But it’s told in a entertaining enough fashion that you don’t notice it until you think about it. Like a lot of pop corn movies you sit back and enjoy the ride without wandering why they just didn’t do x or whatever would break the narrative.
Maybe it’s because of the open world but MEA didn’t have that. It wasn’t told in a fun enough way that you ignore how bad the story is. Or at least not for as long. I’m pretty tolerant of bad stories. You can suck all you want as long as I’m entertained. The dumber it is though the more entertained I have to be to ignore its idiocy.
Until the dlc me2 didn’t have that for me. Though both me1 and 3 did. Me3 I’ll stick with my belief that the main plot was dumb and the endings were horrifically stupid. But damn it was a told in a fun and entertaining way, I’d laugh, I’d cry it just rocked.
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General Mahad
You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Jan 21, 2019 0:26:24 GMT
TBF, there was nothing in Andromeda to get excited about.
Kett are boring, Archon is completely forgettable, Angarans were suppose to be the big mysterious race and five minutes later you are talking to them in galactic universal.
Had the writing been better, BioWare could have rekindled that feeling of wonder/excitement/dread.
Hell, it would have been even better if the reason the Kett/Angarans were attacking you was because you were the colonizing invaders and they were victims of many attempts at colonization.
Its the same with ME2 and ME3. There was nothing interesting about the collectors or cerberus and the reapers were never there except when you needed a juggernaut to do something, there was no real enemy leader in ME2 just a big baby to shoot a lot at the end with no major confrontation. To me the writing is the same across all the games, for its all chopped up to give players their choices to make so its hard to really tell good writing or bad for me. I know people claim the companions are what makes ME2 good, but the number of them is what distracts people for they only have to write a small blurb for each character and not have to space it out. For I bet if they had five or six companions in ME2 and triple the time they wouldn't have been any better then the archtypes we got in ME1. I found the collectors interesting in terms of lore, their insectoid look, and they were pretty okay and formidable enemies. Likewise with Cerberus.
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 21, 2019 17:45:16 GMT
The Collectors were OK. Harbinger was a fail.
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Post by themikefest on Jan 21, 2019 18:02:32 GMT
Harbinger was excellent. My Shepard missed hearing him talk smack in ME3.
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 23, 2019 18:40:28 GMT
YMMV, sure. But for me he was a textbook case of Villain Decay.
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