cankiie
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People are too forgiving when it comes to video games, and their focus is malplaced.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 23, 2019 20:47:19 GMT
Citation needed. That said. Money that could be given to develope an even better single-player game. I know this post was from a while ago, but here are the receipts: askagamedev.tumblr.com/post/85025555901/game-development-myths-multiplayer-takes-awayA summary: Here is where the myth comes in. This is (a simplified version of) what a lot of gamers believe happens: Publisher: Here’s 1000 zots to do with as you please. Developer: I will spend it all on single player, making it TEH AWESOME Publisher: Oh wait, I want multiplayer too. Developer: Now I have to spend 200 zots on multiplayer and 800 on single player, making it less awesome. T^T
The previous conversation would probably go much more like this: Publisher: So if we think that there would be this much revenue from the single player game, and this much additional revenue from the multiplayer, we’ll give you 800 zots for the single player, and an additional 200 for multiplayer development Developer: We’ve discussed it internally and we really don't feel like we can do multiplayer very well. Publisher: Ok, then we’ll cut the multiplayer and we’ll just give you the 800 zots for the single player game.
The important thing to realize here is that there is no situation where the single player game will get the additional resources that would have gone to the development of the multiplayer components unless revenue forecasts can somehow support that the additional resources spent will result in additional revenue. The single player game is estimated from the get go to require a certain budget. There might be stretch goals for the single player, but the multiplayer budget is actually an entirely separate bid. Because it’s a separate bid, even if you cut that feature, you wouldn’t get to reallocate the resources that would have been allocated for it. You just wouldn’t get them at all.
I think there is some kind of mis-communication here. As I have already explained to pessimistpanda. Yes, they are supposedly given additional revenue to create multiplayer on top of the already established budget for the single-player part. My point, plain and simple without any hidden context, meaning or further need for analysis, it is just as it is written - no need for reading in between the lines. Instead of giving that extra money for a multiplayer part, add that money to the single player budget. Plain and simple. Now a hyperbole: Who are we to truly know if some of the money that would otherwise have been spent for the single-player experience haven't already been reallocated to create a multiplayer experience. I mean, I am not sitting with all of the numbers personally, obviously. This latter way of thought, however, is simply the pessimist inside of me. I mean, it is EA as a publisher we are talking about here. One thing is what is said... another thing is what is actually done, afterall.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jan 24, 2019 2:06:55 GMT
Well the reason we know that's not happening is because EA has made no secret of the fact that multiplayer and live service are their priority.
It's less and less likely that a purely single player game would get greenlit on the first place, so there's no way to know exactly what resources it would get, and where that money would go otherwise. But we do know that budgets are allocated to specific features, and not as a lump sum for developers to do with as they please.
If you want more single player games, enough people need to buy more of the ones that already exist, to impact sales trends and show western AAA publishers that it's worth investing in.
Otherwise, your options are to pay more attention to the indie and JRPG scenes, where single player is still going strong.
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Post by Ieldra on Jan 24, 2019 9:44:44 GMT
@ 39,5" pole. Of course that was also my answer.
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Jan 24, 2019 18:33:21 GMT
I don´t care but MP has to be optional. Also no former Singleplayer NPCs as characters. Especially if they are MP exclusives. I really hated the implementation of Isabela in the DAI MP.
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LukeBarrett
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jan 29, 2019 17:41:16 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types?
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Post by thats1evildude on Jan 29, 2019 19:26:11 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types? Well, speaking for myself, the character I create for roleplaying might be completely different than the character I create solely for a combat-focused multiplayer. My RP choices might be dictated by the plot, the romance options, the class of my last character, etc. But if I’m building a character strictly for combat-focused multiplayer, I might choose options that I would never play in SP, like a healer mage.
I also think it would be cool if the MP offered options that would be impossible to use in the SP, like werewolves or ghasts. (Please let me play a ghast.)
Finally, I think most people are terrified of the possibility that MP is going to intrude on the SP campaign. If you have to create a separate character for the MP, that increases the likelihood that those two modes will remain separate.
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Post by Muninn on Jan 29, 2019 23:45:39 GMT
I voted for the SP protagonist.
I think that in a game that focuses on the singleplayer experience, the provided co-operative/multiplayer game mode should be directly integrated into it and complement it to further diversify the experience. Completing multiplayer activities may earn the player certain singleplayer rewards, but otherwise the multiplayer mode should be completely optional and does not affect the story of the singleplayer mode.
Purely speculating, if our protagonist will be in fact an agent, s/he has potential to be involved in both scenarios, which gives an opportunity to integrate innovative multiplayer elements into a singleplayer mode. Agents can be many, and their identity should remain hidden, which opens the possibility to present other players even as their protagonists in the same game environment.
Individual missions may be represented by the modes known so far, or preferably even more diverse (silent missions, assassinations, thefts etc.), which may require a more specific aid of other players. Such multiplayer missions can be called from the war table* and alternatively be completed via singleplayer mode (similar to APEX/Strike Team Missions in MEA), while other activities (avenging another player's death etc.) may appear directly integrated into the singleplayer mode (turned off if the player does not wish to be interrupted).
*As for the war table or similar mechanic, I see it as the possibility for the Inquisitor's return, over whom the player has full control. The transition between our main protagonist and the war table view (as the Inquisitor) could be resolved via raven, that the main protagonist can summon at any time in free-roam.
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DragonRacer
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Post by DragonRacer on Feb 3, 2019 13:08:44 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types? For me, I think it's an offshoot of keeping SP and MP separate but related. It's also a logical extension of what we're already used to from BioWare MPs, in that we have our SP hero (or asshole, I suppose, depending on how you RP them ) and then we have an MP character who is 100% not our SP character. That the MP character has always been pre-set is irrelevant - it's just simply always been someone else, so the thought of being able to better customize that someone else to make them more your own is appealing. Like the concept of taking my beloved Turian Sentinel, but maybe I make him a lady Turian instead, and I switch out his armor with more choice than just re-coloring it, and maybe I have a small arsenal of powers and skills to choose from so I swap out and experiment with different combos. She's still a Turian Sentinel, but now she is MY Turian Sentinel. To reveal full bias, I have also never played a game where the MP character was your SP character, so I have no real concept of how that works in practice. And also given how every DA protagonist thus far has been uniquely "special", the feeling of running into other people's protags just seems so jarringly strange. Like, take you right out of the fantasy of the game level of strange. I'm envisioning a 4-person squad and we're all The Inquisitor or we're all Hawkes or we're all The Warden and that just puts me off so badly I can't properly form words. YOUR SP protag is no longer your special self-extension (or your special RP character) but just one of the MP crowd and my brain goes REEEEEEEEEEEE at that scenario. Now, maybe that seems strange when I enjoy the hell out of Elder Scrolls Online, in which every single one of us running around is The Vestige. But that only works because the entire game is an MMO. I realize the other player characters I run across are also The Vestige, in their own personal narrative, but I can easily just view them as other characters inhabiting this world. If ESO had a deep and involved SP wherein my Vestige makes friends with my squadmates, maybe even loves one of them, and saves the world from whatever... and then I had to go and run around the online world with all the other Vestiges who did that, it would be weird and off-putting. To me, you either have a deep and involved SP story with a separate-but-equal sort of MP... or you have 100% an MMO. Crossing the streams doesn't feel like a good thing, but maybe that's also because I haven't seen/played an example of how that works in a positive fashion.
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Post by Muninn on Feb 3, 2019 15:35:26 GMT
I realize the other player characters I run across are also The Vestige, in their own personal narrative, but I can easily just view them as other characters inhabiting this world. Actually, this is kind of what I had in mind above. If our main protagonist will be in fact an agent, then from the perspective of our personal narrative, our defined protagonist will be that special character tied to the story, but the other players in the multiplayer mode will be perceived just as other agents. Information about their characters backgrounds and story progression will remain hidden, although it still gives us the possibility to try to integrate their characters into our story in some capacity. I always tend to do a self-insert character, which means that in my case, creating a few characters is about making exact copies. The possibility of using my existing SP character would definitely improve my investment to the multiplayer mode, knowing that it still concerns my SP protagonist's actions, which may directly influence and benefit my progress in the singleplayer mode. It gives a more of a personal investment to the multiplayer mode, due to it's combination with the singleplayer mode through the same character's experience. The downside of this approach may be the fact that the main protagonist decides to perform these certain missions with other agents, not companions. Personally, I tend to imagine my character acting individually on her own, but it may be a concern for other players. Although, this may be determined by the way the main plot is conducted. If the plot of the main protagonist is directed towards a more personal story or somewhat separated (creating own network), then perhaps our main protagonist, as an agent, is the only one that can directly respond to calls for the multiplayer missions (assuming that these are related to the former Inquisitor), without involving companions.
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Post by Frost on Feb 3, 2019 16:35:24 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types? It is much better to have a separate MP character and not involve the SP character in MP. Please do not penalize people who do not play multiplayer.
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 5, 2019 3:57:54 GMT
I actually really liked the DAIMP pre made characters. You still can build them as you wish but having premade allowed them to create some really great personalities for the mp characters.
Things really would have been great if they had invested more content in the single player game with the mp characters rather than just having them standing around in sky hold.
As in have small single player quests to do with the mp characters. Totally optional of course but something to flesh out the mp characters back story.
For example a quest to explore a magical prison in the vinmark mountains, there you end up freeing the alchemist called Luka. (I also think this would have given more sp people a nudge to try out mp.)
I'm sure that most people want to create their own mp character but having premades was one of the things bioware did right for daimp.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 5, 2019 5:04:25 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types? For me, I think it's an offshoot of keeping SP and MP separate but related. It's also a logical extension of what we're already used to from BioWare MPs, in that we have our SP hero (or asshole, I suppose, depending on how you RP them ) and then we have an MP character who is 100% not our SP character. That the MP character has always been pre-set is irrelevant - it's just simply always been someone else, so the thought of being able to better customize that someone else to make them more your own is appealing. Like the concept of taking my beloved Turian Sentinel, but maybe I make him a lady Turian instead, and I switch out his armor with more choice than just re-coloring it, and maybe I have a small arsenal of powers and skills to choose from so I swap out and experiment with different combos. She's still a Turian Sentinel, but now she is MY Turian Sentinel. To reveal full bias, I have also never played a game where the MP character was your SP character, so I have no real concept of how that works in practice. And also given how every DA protagonist thus far has been uniquely "special", the feeling of running into other people's protags just seems so jarringly strange. Like, take you right out of the fantasy of the game level of strange. I'm envisioning a 4-person squad and we're all The Inquisitor or we're all Hawkes or we're all The Warden and that just puts me off so badly I can't properly form words. YOUR SP protag is no longer your special self-extension (or your special RP character) but just one of the MP crowd and my brain goes REEEEEEEEEEEE at that scenario. Now, maybe that seems strange when I enjoy the hell out of Elder Scrolls Online, in which every single one of us running around is The Vestige. But that only works because the entire game is an MMO. I realize the other player characters I run across are also The Vestige, in their own personal narrative, but I can easily just view them as other characters inhabiting this world. If ESO had a deep and involved SP wherein my Vestige makes friends with my squadmates, maybe even loves one of them, and saves the world from whatever... and then I had to go and run around the online world with all the other Vestiges who did that, it would be weird and off-putting. To me, you either have a deep and involved SP story with a separate-but-equal sort of MP... or you have 100% an MMO. Crossing the streams doesn't feel like a good thing, but maybe that's also because I haven't seen/played an example of how that works in a positive fashion. I think DR pretty much nails the main issues with this for me as well. It did make me think though. How one might incorporate our PC into MP, but in a way that still-kinda-keeps-them-special-in-their-universe. If the Fade (or the Eluvians) had gateways to a larger multiverse, perhaps "alternate reality" PCs could meet one another. Kinda-sorta like when Dr. Who meets previous incarnations of him/herself. I would be inclined to keep MP in the Fade though to maintain that separation from the SP campaign. If it were kept in the Fade, then you could create regions that bend the rules to better accommodate MP play. Your MP PC could have "Fade" gear, skills, etc. that might differ from your SP PC. Whatever made sense for what you're trying to accomplish. MP remains something that you only play if you want, and having that separation might make it a little easier for those who just want the pure SP experience.
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Post by Frost on Feb 5, 2019 12:42:35 GMT
I actually really liked the DAIMP pre made characters. You still can build them as you wish but having premade allowed them to create some really great personalities for the mp characters. Things really would have been great if they had invested more content in the single player game with the mp characters rather than just having them standing around in sky hold. As in have small single player quests to do with the mp characters. Totally optional of course but something to flesh out the mp characters back story. For example a quest to explore a magical prison in the vinmark mountains, there you end up freeing the alchemist called Luka. (I also think this would have given more sp people a nudge to try out mp.) I'm sure that most people want to create their own mp character but having premades was one of the things bioware did right for daimp. Nudging single player people to play multiplayer from within the single player game is for me one of the most annoying things they could do. I do NOT want any quest that starts in single player to require multiplayer. I want single player and multiplayer to be completely separate.
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 5, 2019 14:45:38 GMT
I actually really liked the DAIMP pre made characters. You still can build them as you wish but having premade allowed them to create some really great personalities for the mp characters. Things really would have been great if they had invested more content in the single player game with the mp characters rather than just having them standing around in sky hold. As in have small single player quests to do with the mp characters. Totally optional of course but something to flesh out the mp characters back story. For example a quest to explore a magical prison in the vinmark mountains, there you end up freeing the alchemist called Luka. (I also think this would have given more sp people a nudge to try out mp.) I'm sure that most people want to create their own mp character but having premades was one of the things bioware did right for daimp. Nudging single player people to play multiplayer from within the single player game is for me one of the most annoying things they could do. I do NOT want any quest that starts in single player to require multiplayer. I want single player and multiplayer to be completely separate. I have no clue what you are blathering about and in this case I will use the term blathering. I specially said any quests would be optional and you would not have to do one thing in mp if you did didn't want to. the quest would be in single player and IF the single player liked the characters in the quest they may decide to play some mp. ZERO effect on single player.
For every person that hates mp and swears they would never play it there is one that is not a fan until they try it out. There is a large number of people who had no interest in mp until they tried me3mp.
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Post by Vortex13 on Feb 6, 2019 14:15:21 GMT
I want a custom MP character, but moreso than just a human, elf, dwarf, or qunari with a few skills and powers moved around. I want truly unique characters, one's with brand new abilities never before seen in the single player game. I also want to play as something other than the 'Big 4' races running around Thedas. Previous titles have shown us that the world is far more varied and interesting than just what those same human(like) empires are doing.
I want to play as Mabari, Sylvans, Golems, Werewolves, Awakened Darkspawn, etc.
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Post by Beerfish on Feb 7, 2019 17:12:32 GMT
I don´t care but MP has to be optional. Also no former Singleplayer NPCs as characters. Especially if they are MP exclusives. I really hated the implementation of Isabela in the DAI MP. Why do you care at all?
there is a fine double standard of sp people constantly bleating about wanting no mp and yet you are mad because a sp character showed up in mp which you don't care about?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 8, 2019 0:52:06 GMT
Noticed the results are skewing pretty hard towards custom MP character (excluding people who don't MP). I'm surprised it's not more in the main character option - anyone have any opinions on why they would rather have a separate character doing MP stuff rather than just have your SP character able to do both types? I realise I'm a million years late to this question, but personally, if I were to play MP, I would probably want to (if possible), create multiple characters across a range of classes and specializations for different scenarios, or just because I feel like switching it up that day, rather than being locked into the guy I built for the main game. Of course, if I'm only allowed one character, then just my main character is fine.
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