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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Oct 23, 2016 4:20:11 GMT
It may be a good lecture. she is just the most easily disaproving character in the game, with huge penalties if you say "yes", and large penalties if you say "no". The only method to gain approval with her is to accept everything she says, except when she doesn't want you to accept (nice work guessing which are which), and the method to not lose approval is to never have any opinion on anything - except when she wants you to have one, good luck guessing again.
Bah.. She's more "touched" than "touching"....Yavana isn't like her so i don't think this is because of Flemeth.
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Post by secretrare on Oct 23, 2016 21:13:35 GMT
It may be a good lecture. she is just the most easily disaproving character in the game, with huge penalties if you say "yes", and large penalties if you say "no". The only method to gain approval with her is to accept everything she says, except when she doesn't want you to accept (nice work guessing which are which), and the method to not lose approval is to never have any opinion on anything - except when she wants you to have one, good luck guessing again. Bah.. She's more "touched" than "touching"....Yavana isn't like her so i don't think this is because of Flemeth. And that's the point. She also doesn't tell you anything unless it furthers her goals. She held the information about dying when slaying the Archdemon until the very end, there is nothing indicating the PC she might not hold other informations just as crucial. Nobody sane would trust her, and she brang this distrust upon herself. Let's not split hair to try to find justification. She has the absolute need of Grey Warden killing the Archdemon, and she upset the two that she has under her hand. Remember that the PC could send her away at any time if she was too much of a pain. And she still berates him/her and doesn't miss an opinion to antagonize him/her and Alistair. That's just plain square STUPID. It makes just as much sense as Loghain destroying half his army before facing two invasions. It's acting counter-productive to your goals and being an idiot.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 23, 2016 21:51:16 GMT
Morrigan seems to be written just to be the opposite of Leliana, and nothing more. She made a short statement about how it's better for the Dalish to live free rather than caged up, and all of a sudden she has no problem with siding with the werewolves to kill them? She contradict herself way too often.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Oct 24, 2016 1:46:30 GMT
Morrigan seems to be written just to be the opposite of Leliana, and nothing more. She made a short statement about how it's better for the Dalish to live free rather than caged up, and all of a sudden she has no problem with siding with the werewolves to kill them? She contradict herself way too often. Morrigan is pretty much contrarian on everything. I suppose the idea is that, whatever your PC decides to do, some companions will be supportive while others will oppose. This, to make it easier for gamers to make unusual decisions.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Oct 25, 2016 3:00:07 GMT
Morrigan seems to be written just to be the opposite of Leliana, and nothing more. She made a short statement about how it's better for the Dalish to live free rather than caged up, and all of a sudden she has no problem with siding with the werewolves to kill them? She contradict herself way too often. Morrigan is pretty much contrarian on everything. I suppose the idea is that, whatever your PC decides to do, some companions will be supportive while others will oppose. This, to make it easier for gamers to make unusual decisions. She is a good moral compass whenever she disapproves i know i did something right. If she approve i did something wrong.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 25, 2016 8:59:41 GMT
Morrigan is pretty much contrarian on everything. I suppose the idea is that, whatever your PC decides to do, some companions will be supportive while others will oppose. This, to make it easier for gamers to make unusual decisions. She is a good moral compass whenever she disapproves i know i did something right. If she approve i did something wrong. The problem with Morrigan is that I found myself constantly deciding not to take Morrigan anywhere because, frankly, I was sick of listening to her moaning about any choice I made that didn't involve rivers of blood and sticking babies on skewers. By her definition, everything is inferior. Including stuff that is clearly way beyond her in terms of capability. I don't mind the fact that she's a cold and pragmatic character - it was just that she was less pragmatic and more bloodthirsty. Her tantrum about choosing to help redcliffe was a pretty indefencible whinge as no matter how you slice it, you needed Redcliffe's support whether you cared about the people or not. Her advice that I should march off an kill Loghain so that I could recruit in peace just demonstrates that she doesn't honestly understand anything beyond magic(but fail to comprehend Flemeth grimoire) and raw survival, which isn't really useful when dealing with the kinds of situations the Warden has to deal with. I mean, who in the right mind would kill mages for petty reasons like that? support Branka? Sure, we get some Golems in the short term... and we've set up a total lunatic with an army that even Darkspawn baulk at dealing with. Epilogue say Branka even start a war against Ferelden for a while. Yeah, good thinking Morrigan.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Oct 25, 2016 14:31:20 GMT
She is a good moral compass whenever she disapproves i know i did something right. If she approve i did something wrong. The problem with Morrigan is that I found myself constantly deciding not to take Morrigan anywhere because, frankly, I was sick of listening to her moaning about any choice I made that didn't involve rivers of blood and sticking babies on skewers. By her definition, everything is inferior. Including stuff that is clearly way beyond her in terms of capability. I don't mind the fact that she's a cold and pragmatic character - it was just that she was less pragmatic and more bloodthirsty. Her tantrum about choosing to help redcliffe was a pretty indefencible whinge as no matter how you slice it, you needed Redcliffe's support whether you cared about the people or not. Her advice that I should march off an kill Loghain so that I could recruit in peace just demonstrates that she doesn't honestly understand anything beyond magic(but fail to comprehend Flemeth grimoire) and raw survival, which isn't really useful when dealing with the kinds of situations the Warden has to deal with. I mean, who in the right mind would kill mages for petty reasons like that? support Branka? Sure, we get some Golems in the short term... and we've set up a total lunatic with an army that even Darkspawn baulk at dealing with. Epilogue say Branka even start a war against Ferelden for a while. Yeah, good thinking Morrigan. Not to make excuses for Morrigan, but she is a product of a very strange upbringing. She's very much an "outsider" given her isolation from anyone but Flemeth. She doesn't empathize with people because she's never lived among them. As to what role she plays in the game for you, it depends on how you play your PC. There are some of the origins that lend themselves to the PC feeling like an outsider. A Dalish elf might especially feel like an outsider and not find Morrigan's suggestion to abandon Redcliffe all that offensive. (A Dalish elf would probably find Morrigan's suggestions in the alienage rather evil even though the Dalish look down on city elves. If you play a good "Warden," of course, (I tend to do that all the time) everything that comes out of her mouth will annoy. When I play a "pragmatic" good PC, I don't act on any of her suggestions, I just let her talk. Her banter, at least, is funny. (If you ever use the "Improved Atmosphere" mod, there seems to be some banter that I've never heard in the regular game. In one, Morrigan mockingly hits on Sten....and Sten responds with a description of Qunari "rough" sexual practices that cause Morrigan to rather quickly retreat! )
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Post by Aren on Nov 2, 2016 1:46:46 GMT
Canonically in the base game there are restrictions posed by the writers on this character(unlike the others companions)you can't touch her. In the base game is because of the plot so I can understand it. But it is very unfair for those who doesn't like Morrigan if in Witch Hunt you chose to stab her because that decision doesn't even matter in DAI. She doesn't even coment about it. I find it kind of unfair for those who decided to do that to be honest. And she's my favorite character but in a game in which your desicions -supposedly- have any kind of impact in your world is disrespectful to the players if that decision is not reflected in the next game. It happened with Leliana and BioWare tried to correct their mistake (unsatisfactorily in my opinion) but not even that with Morrigan. Any time the devs choose to contradict a player's choice, they are undermining the entire choice making feature of the games they make and advertise. They have the entire game as their product to create and craft and shape. The devs have their hands on all the levers of power, so when they specifically designate a choice for the player to make, that has to be sacred. The devs get to exert their influence over the entirety of the game, players only get to exert the influence that developers give them. So if developers undermine that player influence too, then it trivializes the entire feature of making choices.
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Post by oyabun on Nov 2, 2016 9:41:04 GMT
The problem with Morrigan is that I found myself constantly deciding not to take Morrigan anywhere because, frankly, I was sick of listening to her moaning about any choice I made that didn't involve rivers of blood and sticking babies on skewers. By her definition, everything is inferior. Including stuff that is clearly way beyond her in terms of capability. I don't mind the fact that she's a cold and pragmatic character - it was just that she was less pragmatic and more bloodthirsty. Her tantrum about choosing to help redcliffe was a pretty indefencible whinge as no matter how you slice it, you needed Redcliffe's support whether you cared about the people or not. Her advice that I should march off an kill Loghain so that I could recruit in peace just demonstrates that she doesn't honestly understand anything beyond magic(but fail to comprehend Flemeth grimoire) and raw survival, which isn't really useful when dealing with the kinds of situations the Warden has to deal with. I mean, who in the right mind would kill mages for petty reasons like that? support Branka? Sure, we get some Golems in the short term... and we've set up a total lunatic with an army that even Darkspawn baulk at dealing with. Epilogue say Branka even start a war against Ferelden for a while. Yeah, good thinking Morrigan. Not to make excuses for Morrigan, but she is a product of a very strange upbringing. She's very much an "outsider" given her isolation from anyone but Flemeth. She doesn't empathize with people because she's never lived among them. As to what role she plays in the game for you, it depends on how you play your PC. There are some of the origins that lend themselves to the PC feeling like an outsider. A Dalish elf might especially feel like an outsider and not find Morrigan's suggestion to abandon Redcliffe all that offensive. (A Dalish elf would probably find Morrigan's suggestions in the alienage rather evil even though the Dalish look down on city elves. If you play a good "Warden," of course, (I tend to do that all the time) everything that comes out of her mouth will annoy. When I play a "pragmatic" good PC, I don't act on any of her suggestions, I just let her talk. Her banter, at least, is funny. (If you ever use the "Improved Atmosphere" mod, there seems to be some banter that I've never heard in the regular game. In one, Morrigan mockingly hits on Sten....and Sten responds with a description of Qunari "rough" sexual practices that cause Morrigan to rather quickly retreat! ) Morrigan just seems object to the very idea of helping anyone, for any reason. Her short-sightedness is staggering.By the way, if as a female you seduce Cammen in the Dalish camp then tell Gheyna what happened leading to her hissyfit.. Morrigan approves.That torpedoes her character even further. She's not even against wasting time from your objective as long as it involves being a jackass to people!
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 2, 2016 12:21:16 GMT
Not to make excuses for Morrigan, but she is a product of a very strange upbringing. She's very much an "outsider" given her isolation from anyone but Flemeth. She doesn't empathize with people because she's never lived among them. As to what role she plays in the game for you, it depends on how you play your PC. There are some of the origins that lend themselves to the PC feeling like an outsider. A Dalish elf might especially feel like an outsider and not find Morrigan's suggestion to abandon Redcliffe all that offensive. (A Dalish elf would probably find Morrigan's suggestions in the alienage rather evil even though the Dalish look down on city elves. If you play a good "Warden," of course, (I tend to do that all the time) everything that comes out of her mouth will annoy. When I play a "pragmatic" good PC, I don't act on any of her suggestions, I just let her talk. Her banter, at least, is funny. (If you ever use the "Improved Atmosphere" mod, there seems to be some banter that I've never heard in the regular game. In one, Morrigan mockingly hits on Sten....and Sten responds with a description of Qunari "rough" sexual practices that cause Morrigan to rather quickly retreat! ) Morrigan just seems object to the very idea of helping anyone, for any reason. Her short-sightedness is staggering.By the way, if as a female you seduce Cammen in the Dalish camp then tell Gheyna what happened leading to her hissyfit.. Morrigan approves.That torpedoes her character even further. She's not even against wasting time from your objective as long as it involves being a jackass to people! And if you help Cammen and Gheyna's relationship, you get Morrigan's rather funny "Does anyone else want to vomit?" line! It almost seems as if she's a tool created by the developers to get players to try all the "bad" options! Imagine two PTs: one where you're courting Leliana and the other where you're going after Morrigan. Assuming you aren't relying on showering them with "thoughtful gifts" to keep their approval up but rather building favor based on your deeds, those are two very different PTs!
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Post by Prince on Nov 3, 2016 2:37:24 GMT
I used to like Flemeth in Origins, before the MILF-makeover and the "I'm a good loving mommy after all" reveal. She was interesting in a kind of scary way without being in-your-face, and older female characters are too rare as it is. To be honest I was hoping Morrigan would get her comeuppance by becoming Flemeth-chow, but the story went in the completely opposite way.
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Post by secretrare on Nov 5, 2016 11:41:32 GMT
I reached this point of the game again but made a different choice this time around,I Decided to kill Morrigan for Flemeth.
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Post by oyabun on Nov 5, 2016 12:00:29 GMT
I reached this point of the game again but made a different choice this time around,I Decided to kill Morrigan for Flemeth. I don't recall this option then again it's been years from the last time i played DAO,it was possible to kill Morrigan in DAO?
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Post by secretrare on Nov 5, 2016 12:19:56 GMT
I reached this point of the game again but made a different choice this time around,I Decided to kill Morrigan for Flemeth. I don't recall this option then again it's been years from the last time i played DAO,it was possible to kill Morrigan in DAO? With mods yes you can. *Watch out Mature content audience only*
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 5, 2016 14:05:39 GMT
Impressive,and with this now all the characters in DAO are killable.
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Post by Aren on Nov 7, 2016 2:22:58 GMT
Not to make excuses for Morrigan, Morrigan just seems object to the very idea of helping anyone, for any reason. Her short-sightedness is staggering.By the way, if as a female you seduce Cammen in the Dalish camp then tell Gheyna what happened leading to her hissyfit.. Morrigan approves.That torpedoes her character even further. She's not even against wasting time from your objective as long as it involves being a jackass to people! I dumped her off my team once I realized that most missions will involve helping people and she's allergic to compassion. I like her marginally better in Inquisition, though I'm annoyed by her importance at all in this franchise,as no matter what you do in DAI,and no matter which world-state you imported you can't refuse her(why i have to bear someone that I despise?),and the lack of choice as well as the flaws of DAI made me decide to pass that game.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 7, 2016 2:40:02 GMT
I dumped her off my team once I realized that most missions will involve helping people and she's allergic to compassion. I like her marginally better in Inquisition, though I'm annoyed by her importance at all in this franchise,as no matter what you do in DAI,and no matter which world-state you imported you can't refuse her(why i have to bear someone that I despise?),and the lack of choice as well as the flaws of DAI made me decide to pass that game. Keep in mind, in Inquisition, your Inquisitor doesn't have the benefit of having known and rejected Morrigan as your Grey Warden in Origins does. In Inquisition, she's simply an intriguing witch who provides some assistance in defeating Cory's plot against Celene. Aside from a negative but vague comment about her from Leliana, there's no reason to turn down her help even if you role-play your Inquisitor to have the moral outlook as your Warden. And as you mention, Morrigan isn't quite as annoying in Inquisition. Perhaps she has mellowed after having left the Korcari Wilds and having to associate with people on a more regular basis.
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Post by Aren on Nov 7, 2016 4:47:35 GMT
Keep in mind, in Inquisition, your Inquisitor doesn't have the benefit of having known and rejected Morrigan as your Grey Warden in Origins does. In Inquisition, she's simply an intriguing witch who provides some assistance in defeating Cory's plot against Celene. Aside from a negative but vague comment about her from Leliana, there's no reason to turn down her help even if you role-play your Inquisitor to have the moral outlook as your Warden. And as you mention, Morrigan isn't quite as annoying in Inquisition. Perhaps she has mellowed after having left the Korcari Wilds and having to associate with people on a more regular basis. It's just a matter of how you want to RP the Quiz,it's not difficult to RP an Inquisitor who dislike witches(from the codex about some of the Inquisitors and the Inquisitions of the past we know that many of them were adverse to witches and hunted them down)and Game-wise you have the option to display this distrust and intollerance to her in dialogues ,yet the game at a certain point force her in the Inquisition no matter what you say and despite her not being vital in the game at all with Solas around. I don't even understand why the Inquisitor need her to the point where she is mandatory in this game if there is Solas.
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Post by Prince on Nov 7, 2016 5:15:37 GMT
It's just a matter of how you want to RP the Quiz,it's not difficult to RP an Inquisitor who dislike witches(from the codex about some of the Inquisitors and the Inquisitions of the past we know that many of them were adverse to witches and hunted them down)and Game-wise you have the option to display this distrust and intollerance to her in dialogues ,yet the game at a certain point force her in the Inquisition no matter what you say and despite her not being vital in the game at all with Solas around. I don't even understand why the Inquisitor need her to the point where she is mandatory in this game if there is Solas. Honestly? I am *sick* of being messed about by these kinds of characters. There's already enough of that (as there always is) with Morrigan and her irritating Plor Armored 'I know everything and I am so much more clever and right than anyone else ever' act.In DAI Given Morrigan's attempted sabotage of your mission if you agree to help the elves,and both her and Solas marching to the beat of their own drums with what they choose to tell you, this missions gets really, really frustrating. Particularly as all your characters seem so clueless and helpless in the face of all this.
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Post by deadlydwarf on Nov 7, 2016 5:20:29 GMT
It's just a matter of how you want to RP the Quiz,it's not difficult to RP an Inquisitor who dislike witches(from the codex about some of the Inquisitors and the Inquisitions of the past we know that many of them were adverse to witches and hunted them down)and Game-wise you have the option to display this distrust and intollerance to her in dialogues ,yet the game at a certain point force her in the Inquisition no matter what you say and despite her not being vital in the game at all with Solas around. I don't even understand why the Inquisitor need her to the point where she is mandatory in this game if there is Solas. Good point that a pro-Templar Inquisitor might want to steer clear of Morrigan. Of course, why would such an Inquisitor be on good terms with Solas if he/she loathes apostates? In my case, I never actually tried turning down Morrigan. Oh well, I suppose the point was to find some way to reconnect Inquisition with Origins. Still a fun game, but yes, certain choices are forced on you.
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Post by Aren on Nov 7, 2016 6:16:04 GMT
Well I don't think the player should necessarily like/trust Solas in order to understand that he really is pivotal in this game ,so I understand him being "forced" by the writers for story sake,since without him you can't find Skyhold,you lose the whole plot point of the Orb and Trespassess wouldn't make any sense.Game-wise I recall that it was Cassandra to recruit him long before she found an Inquisitor so is not even a choice made by the player but by the founders of the Inquisition,in Morrigan case is a "choice" made by the Inquisitor.Still having to control 1 apostate is preferable than having to look over two at the same time.
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Post by secretrare on Nov 7, 2016 6:29:00 GMT
Only the Maker know in that Inquisition...between elven spies Qunari spies,A dread wolf(that i want to convert into a dead wolf), witches of the wilds servant of ancient gods,apostates,demon-childs and false Grey wardens,if there was someone to trust...none.
My Skyhold is on sale for any noble who want to buy it.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Nov 17, 2016 17:24:34 GMT
Ok i made a chaotic stupid character, to be evil for the sake of being evil. This is what is called chaotic stupid. Poop in the urn of sacred ashes, punch old ladies, be a jerk for the sake of being a jerk, over-compensate in every evil act and watched Morrigans approval rating, it will go up.
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Post by oyabun on Nov 24, 2016 16:45:27 GMT
Flemeth could have avoided the warden by flying,I'm not sure why she did not used her wings,maybe a limitation of the Engine?COme to think of it there are no FLying dragons in DAO,only the Archdemon fly but in cutscenes not in combat.
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Post by fylimar on Dec 11, 2016 11:54:33 GMT
I never kill Flemeth. She is one of my favorite characters in teh frnachise and Morrigan is one of my least favorites, so a nobrainer for me. I have no problem lying to Morrigan about her motehr and left her to rot in the camp afterwards. I only pick that quest, because it is nice to go talk to Flemeth again.
I really started to hate Morrigan, when she lectured my very Dalish elf about her culture and religion. I stopped playing there until I found the 'Yes, we know about Mythal' mod on Nexus, which shuts Morrigan up about Dalish culture when you are playing a friggin' Dalish yourself (and as a veteran player and a thorough codex reader, I already knew about the Dalish gods and culture). That mod is a blessing.
Unlike most of the other companions, Morrigan has nearly no redeeming qualities for me, only her voice actress, the wonderful Claudia Black - and I so wished, Morrigan had a bit more of Aeryn Sun, the character out of Blacks repertoire, I liked the most - that character started out as being cold and selfish too and ended up being a great addition to the Farscape cast.
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