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Post by ergates on Jan 29, 2019 14:28:36 GMT
For a couple of years now I seem to have been left feeling alienated by most of what I'd class as 'modern games'. They just aren't grabbing me, something seems to be missing, I'm not feeling it.
I occasionally try new games, but this is getting less frequent - last year I tried one single new game: Prey, thought the concept seemed interesting but was bored after an hour, there were no other games I was particularly interested in playing.
Before that I tried Mass Effect Andromeda - it was OK, in that I actually completed it, but I never felt any real desire to replay it, large parts of it seemed like a slog. Doom 2016 left me utterly cold - I actively hated that one. In fact the only recent game I can think of that I actually felt gripped by, and truly enjoyed was Wolfenstein The New Colossus. That's one single game in almost three years.
Now I'm looking at the new titles planned for 2019 - and there's not even one I have any interest in playing. They leave me utterly indifferent.
It never used to be like this. I remember reading about upcoming games in the late 1990s and early-to-mid noughties and feeling excitement and anticipation. There were so many pending releases that I just couldn't wait to try - and for the most part, I'd enjoy playing them once purchased. Now I feel nothing.
It's not that I no longer enjoy gaming - I still love playing my older games, but it seems that's all I want to play.
So - is it me? Have I changed? Are these new releases actually fantastic games, but I've changed too much to appreciate them? Or are modern games becoming increasingly homogenised, rote, dulled-down and stripped of the thing that used to make gaming good?
Does anyone else feel like this, or am I just an old whining git moaning about how 'things were better in my day'? I honestly can't tell.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Jan 29, 2019 14:42:13 GMT
As a stealth loving, story driven gamer I feel this way. The 'hiatus' of Deus Ex and Dishonored hit me hard, then MEA didn't recapture the trilogy and DA is left bobbing along for years and years. I got kinda down and felt like there was nothing to look forward to. I like AAA games with strong storylines, not too gory, not so much melee, and it's a narrow field. So I pushed myself into playing other kinds of games. Picking up Tomb Raider for a fiver started off a journey through that, then Rise, and soon Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I really enjoy the freedom and exploration, and I can stealth a lot of the encounters. I just bought Dying Light, not my thing but it's co op and I needed something new to play with my boyfriend. First hour, hated it, now 3 hours in it's a lot of fun and I can't wait to play again. He suggested Grim Dawn, I was like 'blergh isometric games' but whaddya know? It's pretty good. I don't love it enough to make it my main game, but it's fun every now and then and worth the price. So I'd suggest taking a chance on something a little left of centre for you, and pushing through the first few hours to get to that point where the controls have become natural and you care about the characters. Also trying smaller games, like the Witness or Rusty Lake, and play them as a contrast to whatever main game you have going on. For me there are still good games out there, I just had to order something different from the menu.
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Post by Ieldra on Jan 29, 2019 14:58:25 GMT
I'm more or else like ArcadiaGrey above. I like stealth games and story-driven games. My favorite series were Thief (the original from Looking Glass), Deus Ex and Dishonored, along with various role-playing games with good stories that didn't put a focus on speed as well as a careful selection of strategy and building games. I like things slow and deliberate. "Fast-paced" and "visceral" is something to run away from, but it appears to me that games have been getting faster and less reflective over time. Nonetheless, no, I can't say there aren't any new games I like to play any more. I do spend more time with older games, just as I spend time with favorite books, but there's usually at least one, but more likely up to a handful of new games every year I try and come to like. Last year's surprise hit for me, for instance, was Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire, and I'm sure I'll get Cyberpunk 2077 when it's finally released. Having said that, my standards for stories in games are high, and games that truly satisfy in that regard are very rare. Even a highlight like Deus Ex: Human Revolution was almost ruined by its overly preachy ending.
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Post by ergates on Jan 29, 2019 15:02:46 GMT
I actually did play the Tomb Raider reboot, and finished it - despite being driven almost insane by the QTEs, and getting very, very close to hurling my monitor out of the window on more than one occasion.
I've got Rise of the Tombraider installed, but have yet to play it. Perhaps I should give it a go at some point. In truth the thought of a bunch more of those ghastly QTEs put me off... but apparently they aren't as frequent in this game.
Right now though, I'm playing Total Annihilation. A real time strategy game from 1997.
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Post by Sanunes on Jan 29, 2019 15:09:53 GMT
I don't think its just you, but at the same time the market has shifted to a different audience now that focuses on different things going by the purchase statistics of video games. The AAA market might not be making what you want to see, but there are other places to find games that will make what you are probably going to enjoy. The problem is even those markets could be struggling too. I think a good example is Hellblade Senua's Sacrifice for it was a good game with a lot of good buzz around it from the markets and it was a strong single player game, but it took nearly the entire three month golden window for game sales to become barely profitable. That game had a much smaller budget and done by an experienced team, but it must have been perilous for them for now they are an exclusive partner with Microsoft instead of being focused on making more games like that.
The problem I think is the market is asking for more and more, but at the same time unwilling to understand the costs of developing titles and the need for publishers to try and make sure they aren't going to lose money releasing an imperfect game where there is very little room for mistakes now.
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Post by ergates on Jan 29, 2019 15:12:59 GMT
Could this be it I wonder?
Yes, I'm one of those people who absolutely loathes anything that forces you to rush or play quickly. Timed missions, rusher mechanics etc. are spawn of the devil, and terms like 'fast-paced action' leave me cold. I play slowly, methodically, tactically, using terrain to my advantage and get far more pleasure out of outwitting foes than from just mindlessly shooting them. I think you're right in that many modern titles are heavily geared toward 'fast-paced action'. To my way of thinking 'fast-paced' is just something based on the assumption that their players have very short attention spans, and have to be constantly provoked into responding to something that's happening on screen at all times with never a moment to stop and breath.
Perhaps this is why I enjoyed Wolfenstein The New Order, and Wolfenstein The New Colossus so much. Both games actively reward slow, stealthy careful players and actively punish gung-ho run and gun types.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Jan 29, 2019 15:14:06 GMT
I actually did play the Tomb Raider reboot, and finished it - despite being driven almost insane by the QTEs, and getting very, very close to hurling my monitor out of the window on more than one occasion. I've got Rise of the Tombraider installed, but have yet to play it. Perhaps I should give it a go at some point. In truth the thought of a bunch more of those ghastly QTEs put me off... but apparently they aren't as frequent in this game. Right now though, I'm playing Total Annihilation. A real time strategy game from 1997. Rise has less QTEs, more exploration, and imo a much better story with more tolearble characters. It's worth a go, I really enjoyed it.
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Post by ergates on Jan 29, 2019 15:20:04 GMT
Then I'll make that my next game - though I guess I'll need to play Tomb Raider Reboot again first just so I can properly plug in to the story.
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Post by ArcadiaGrey on Jan 29, 2019 15:33:58 GMT
Then I'll make that my next game - though I guess I'll need to play Tomb Raider Reboot again first just so I can properly plug in to the story. Nope. It's mentioned a couple of times in passing but that's it. It's quite independent, the only tie in is that Jonah, the big guy from her ship, is also in Rise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 15:42:31 GMT
It's not just you, but a lot of people. And to be honest, I had a discussion with my friends about videos games and we all felt like the market offered games that were less good than before, made with less passion and less content.
Fallout 4, GTV, Battlefield 1 and 5, Black Ops III and IV, division, overwatch, fortnite, elder scroll online, destiny, for honor, etc etc.... Nope.
I keep being disappointed with every game I play. Anthem is the last one. Xcom2, Assassin Creed Odyssey are basically the only ones recently that succeeded to catch my interest beyond a few hours. I play less and less videos games except old games like DA, Mass effect, etc.
I'm suspecting however that Cyberpunk, the Outer worlds, the next DA the next Skyrim from Bethesda, will make me fall in love with video games again.
I have noticed that the market is heavily involved with the multiplayer process in mind these last years, while actually, more and more players are nostalgic of a time where single player content definitely ruled everything, as if people were a bit tired of multiplayer games eradicating more and more the solo part.
I just feel sorry that a game like Anthem couldn't have been a solo game RPG and driven story first before having a multiplayer part like M3, it would have been awesome. Sadly, it's just entirely something else and I'm not interested.
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Post by Ieldra on Jan 29, 2019 16:20:25 GMT
Could this be it I wonder? Yes, I'm one of those people who absolutely loathes anything that forces you to rush or play quickly. Timed missions, rusher mechanics etc. are spawn of the devil, and terms like 'fast-paced action' leave me cold. I play slowly, methodically, tactically, using terrain to my advantage and get far more pleasure out of outwitting foes than from just mindlessly shooting them. I think you're right in that many modern titles are heavily geared toward 'fast-paced action'. To my way of thinking 'fast-paced' is just something based on the assumption that their players have very short attention spans, and have to be constantly provoked into responding to something that's happening on screen at all times with never a moment to stop and breath. Yeah. It's a kind of game for Adrenaline junkies and hyperactives. I'm sure you can get legitimate enjoyment out of them if you're either to at least some degree, but the plain fact is I'm not. I'm also not very social so the MP trend is anathema to me as well. At the same time, the game market has grown, or so it comes across to me at least. Maybe I just know more game manufacturers these days. What kind of games are those? I know the name, of course - you can't play video games and not come across the name here and there - but I don't know more about them except that quite a few years ago one of the Wolfenstein games was banned in Germany because it featured Nazi symbols.
As for game alternatives, I'm not sure if it's your kind of game, but the XCOM games (XCOM:Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2) hit a sweet spot with me. Turn-based tactical games, you can take all the time you need, they also have ways to individualize the people who do your fighting in the game so you connect to characters in the game, they have a good visual appeal, too, and reasonable backstories that are at least well-enough told to draw you in, even if not really well thought-out in depth.
Meanwhile, the Divinity: Original Sin games (DOS2 came out last year) also have turn-based fighting, but they aren't all that good as rpgs, mostly because the writing isn't good, and their stories, while funny, almost whimsical at times, are nothing to write home about either.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jan 29, 2019 18:14:59 GMT
Well OP But seriously, I get where you are coming from. I play games since the late 80s and for me, the golden age of gaming was probably the 20s or more precisely the time between 2004 (Half Life 2, etc.) and 2012 (Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex Human Revolution). That's not to say that since then no good games came out, I enjoyed a great many of them in recent years but I don't think I played anything that quite captured the magic of games during those days. ALmost every year we got some kind of revelation as gamers, be it in graphics leaps, new gameplay ideas, story telling on a level not seen before in games or even the use of the relatively new online features in innovative ways. During the 90s, there were fantastic games but I felt like most of them, even the really good ones, felt a lot like prototypes, rough diamonds that showed greatness but either the gameplay itself, production values or just the underlying technology lacked the polish that came when games went from being a nerdy niche to being a popular pastime for the masses. Nowadays on the other hand, it feels much more like rehashes and slight iterations on known ideas. Experiments and innovation is left to the indie scene, which in turn obviously lacks production values and when an idea finally makes it into a AAA product, it's already well known and documented. Rising production values, the resulting lowered willingness to take risks and the fact that most AAA developers these days work for huge corporations, traded on the stock marked certainly play into that one. I can't even blame them, really, it's as much an inherent necessity of the further evolution that gave us the great games in the 20s in the first place. For me personally, that feeling of discovering new things and also the 90s prototupe/not-quite-there-yet-but-still-great vibe came back when I started out on VR gaming in the last couple of weeks. There are new concepts there, what actually matters in games. There are innovations in how to immerse a player, how to control a character or interact with the environment, how to overcome the limitations inherent in the system. That's a fascinating development to observe live, I feel. This doesn't mean that I will stop paying "standard" video games. As I said, I still enjoy a lot of them. But I do understand your point about loosing some enthusiasm . In my case, it's definitely because of the seemingly iterative nature that most developers seem to go for these days. I am actually kinda grateful for some of the more risky projects that are out there (and catching a lot of flag for it) these days, like e.g. Star Citizen. One can argue about some of their practices and how it all came to the state that we are in right now but IMHO, all those questionble aspects are overruled by the fact that they are trying to make something that goes way beyond what we could experience so far. I wish publishers would also - at least sometimes - go back to taking a risk like that but because of the above mentioned points, I doubt that'll happen any time soon.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jan 29, 2019 20:15:37 GMT
Nah you're right. After Borderlands 2, FarCry3, Witcher 2, COD:Black OPs 2 and hardly included ME3 there hasn't been many great AAA games to be played recently except XCOM 2 and maybe Divinity games. Maybe some good AA games and PS exclusives (not available for PC gamers) and a few franchises I don't care.
Basically most of my gaming library is from 2008-2013 with many 2005 and older classics.
The last installments of Fallout, Civilization, Bioware games, Battlefield, COD, WH40K DOW, Batman were mediocre or barely good.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 20:23:28 GMT
Welcome to getting older.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Jan 29, 2019 21:14:46 GMT
Welcome to getting older. So what you're saying is paying for new junk is a sign of juvenility?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 21:25:17 GMT
Welcome to getting older. So what you're saying is paying for new junk is a sign of juvenility? Not at all. I'm an elderly person. Experience has taught me that, as humans age, they lose interest in a lot of things that use to interest them. It's just part of getting older. One can over-analyze it or just go with it. I recommend just going with it.
Addendum for further clarity: It doesn't matter what it is (games, sports, even sex) or the quality of it, over enough time, we'll likely tire a bit of it. People were already telling me I was too old to play video games when I first started playing video games. My peers were already asking me why I would spend my hard-earned money on that "new junk"; but I was tired of playing bridge and doing crossword puzzles. For now, it still interests me. Whether or not it will still interest me in another 10 years or whether I'll have moved onto to something else to do with my leisure time (or even whether or not I'll still be around at all) is an unknown. I'm guessing though that if something new comes along that interests me more, I'll drop video games and focus on whatever that new hobby is instead.
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Post by Gwydden on Jan 30, 2019 3:12:54 GMT
Can't say I relate, no, but then I hardly ever touch AAA games. Too little value for too much money. Last one I bought was The Witcher 3, and I doubt I'll get another one until maybe Cyberpunk 2077 rolls around. I'm interested in little beyond strategy games and RPGs, which are niche genres to begin with, so the indie scene suits me just fine.
Back in the homeland, it was impossible to buy games and you had to know a guy, who knew a guy, who knew a guy with a decent Internet connection and could therefore pirate them. This meant I had little control over what I ended up playing and had to settle for what came my way. Nowadays I can be as picky as I want, and if anything I find I get tired of video games as a whole a lot less often.
There are more games coming out than ever, many of them with retro sensibilities. If you're having no luck finding something you want to play and assuming you're just not tired of the hobby altogether, I'd recommend searching elsewhere in the industry.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jan 30, 2019 3:45:14 GMT
I typically do not agree with UpUp. The above is a hard post to not agree with. Age is a factor. We change; it is the only constant in the universe. Think about that statement for a moment. @op, I share your pain and feel that some of it is absolutely related to a decline in the quality of the product. So, two factors are fighting us I say someone needs to make a better game. Maybe it will be one of us :hmm:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 5:39:31 GMT
So what you're saying is paying for new junk is a sign of juvenility? Not at all. I'm an elderly person. Experience has taught me that, as humans age, they lose interest in a lot of things that use to interest them. It's just part of getting older. One can over-analyze it or just go with it. I recommend just going with it. I like video games as much as before. Once I find games that are very good and totally to my taste, I am as fond of them and as excited as a child. No, we have just reached these 4-5 late years a time of mediocrity with the video game industry lacking creativity and passion, too focused on gaining money, microtransactions and multiplayer process in mind, it happens, as it happens in historical events with golden periods of peace and prosperity, and after decline, misery and war. When people play Far cry 5, the majority doesn't feel that it is better than Far cry 3. Not only it's the same, but even less good. Far cry new dawn will be problably as mediocre. Fallout 4 without these mods allowed to the players would have been trash compared to the previous ones, except for its better graphics. The universe destroyed and becoming bland, the rpg elements streamlined as fuck. GTV without his multiplayer is not really better than the previous ones. with not even a DLC or new single content. For the first time, they didn't need to with all that money they gained thanks to the multiplayer. Battlefield doesn't make people as excited since Battlefield 4. The same for Black OPs, call of duty. When I played Mass effect andromeda, I didn't feel it was better done than the old trilogy, on the opposite. You could only save the gameplay from that game. You could factually not tell it was just because we are getting older. It just was not done that well. The last games we keep having these last years are all the same clones rehashed. Destiny, Anthem, Battlefront 2, Fortnite, Division, FALLOUT 76, eldor scroll online, overwatch, warframe, etc etc. If anything, the polemic that keeps growing about microtransactions in video games since the last year just shows that there are a few things that don't go well between the video game industry and the community of players, young or old. Maybe the next years will be better.
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Post by ergates on Jan 30, 2019 9:39:10 GMT
I blame gamergate. It changed everything... EVRIFFIN! Not entirely certain if it changed the development direction that games were heading in - I can't think of any real reason why it would. But regardless, Gamergate can go drown in a vat of raw sewage... don't even get me started on that topic I'll never shut up - and it would just derail this thread.
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Post by ergates on Jan 30, 2019 9:48:49 GMT
What kind of games are those? I know the name, of course - you can't play video games and not come across the name here and there - but I don't know more about them except that quite a few years ago one of the Wolfenstein games was banned in Germany because it featured Nazi symbols.
As for game alternatives, I'm not sure if it's your kind of game, but the XCOM games (XCOM:Enemy Unknown and XCOM 2) hit a sweet spot with me. Turn-based tactical games, you can take all the time you need, they also have ways to individualize the people who do your fighting in the game so you connect to characters in the game, they have a good visual appeal, too, and reasonable backstories that are at least well-enough told to draw you in, even if not really well thought-out in depth. Not sure if they'd be your thing. They are violent, brutal first person shooters set in a world in which the Nazis won the war, and you play the part of a big, hulking, bloodied soldier battling against them as part of the resistance. It's sure not everyone's cup of tea. What makes the games interesting (in my opinion at least) is that the game also comes with a pretty damned good story, real emotion and characters that I genuinely cared about - which is extremely uncommon in first person shooters. Even the protagonist you play has been humanised, so that he's not just a lobotomised lump of walking muscle, but has real concerns and motivations. The story is comic book over the top, the Nazis are utter black-and-white chaotic evil with absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and use insane technology such as robotic dogs, giant walking battle mechs and bases on Venus - but somehow it just works. I actually played the original Xcom games back in the 90s. But the new game - from what I've read about it is heavily based around 'rusher gameplay', and all missions are a kind of race against the clock in which you have to play extremely quickly in order to avoid something bad happening. Well, that's the other thing. You're not the only one to mention the increasing drive toward multiplayer. I hope it's a passing fad - because I have absolutely zero interest in multiplayer. It leaves me cold. I'd no more buy a multiplayer-only game than I would buy a can of dog food when I don't own a dog.
Unfortunately it seems that game developers are really, really pushing multiplayer-only as the new medium, and that single player gaming is going the way of the dodo.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 12:52:04 GMT
Not at all. I'm an elderly person. Experience has taught me that, as humans age, they lose interest in a lot of things that use to interest them. It's just part of getting older. One can over-analyze it or just go with it. I recommend just going with it. I like video games as much as before. Once I find games that are very good and totally to my taste, I am as fond of them and as excited as a child. No, we have just reached these 4-5 late years a time of mediocrity with the video game industry lacking creativity and passion, too focused on gaining money, microtransactions and multiplayer process in mind, it happens, as it happens in historical events with golden periods of peace and prosperity, and after decline, misery and war. When people play Far cry 5, the majority doesn't feel that it is better than Far cry 3. Not only it's the same, but even less good. Far cry new dawn will be problably as mediocre. Fallout 4 without these mods allowed to the players would have been trash compared to the previous ones, except for its better graphics. The universe destroyed and becoming bland, the rpg elements streamlined as fuck. GTV without his multiplayer is not really better than the previous ones. with not even a DLC or new single content. For the first time, they didn't need to with all that money they gained thanks to the multiplayer. Battlefield doesn't make people as excited since Battlefield 4. The same for Black OPs, call of duty. When I played Mass effect andromeda, I didn't feel it was better done than the old trilogy, on the opposite. You could only save the gameplay from that game. You could factually not tell it was just because we are getting older. It just was not done that well. The last games we keep having these last years are all the same clones rehashed. Destiny, Anthem, Battlefront 2, Fortnite, Division, FALLOUT 76, eldor scroll online, overwatch, warframe, etc etc. If anything, the polemic that keeps growing about microtransactions in video games since the last year just shows that there are a few things that don't go well between the video game industry and the community of players, young or old. Maybe the next years will be better. I think you're painting an entire industry with an overly broad brush. Sure, some of the "old guard" have gotten rich on making videogames and, as they have gotten older as well, have lost some of their enthusiam and, perhaps, ability to come up with new ideas; but there are new, young hopefuls entering the industry every day. Early in their careers, if they're working for established majors, they don't have the pull yet to express all their creative nor does the public these days seem to want to allow them a learning curve and encourage them despite some "animation bobbles" (prime example was how the public harassed and publicly humiliated an young artist on the Andromeda team... and, as it turned out, she wasn't even the one responsible for the facial animations on that game).
The public has gotten too into whining about EA, Micro$oft, and other large industry players (let's call it mega-corp-itis) and have forgotten that even large corps are made up of just people. The media trashes these games and sets up a public expectation of them being "bad" months before these games are even released. The public engages in a practice of writing and rewriting game stories to their exact desires (down to petty details like what materials should craft a new item) and dictating dialogue changes line by line... demanding "fixes" to endings five years after the game was released (e.g. ME3)... and then they mod and hack the games anyways... and then demanding that the company infinitely support those mods... getting upset if any improvements tried by the company result in making some mods obsolete because the modder isn't obligated to keep up with the company updates to the game. Then, there's the Youtube factor - trash a new game and the reviewer will get millions of view; praise it and they get only a 10th of that amount and the reviewer will arbitrarily get accused of being a shill for the company making the game.
Given all the flack the public dishes out to the devs over what are supposed to be "just games" - it's not an industry I would ever want to work in... so, is it a wonder why creativity is getting a little short in supply?
As far as the trend towards multiplayer games, I really think part of it is that the public is demanding world maps and games with so much content (read, so large and demanding on individual systems) that gaming companies are looking towards server-based maps to try to accommodate that. ME1 was a 50-hour game to 100% it, ME2 was about 60-hours. I've played over 100 hours in individual save files in Fallout 4 and then ultimately lost those files to a save corruption issue before I've ever even been close to completing any one faction story line.
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Post by ergates on Jan 30, 2019 13:20:18 GMT
If I was inclined to counter some of these points, I'd say that ultimately games companies are primarily here to make a profit, and in order to do so they supply a product/and/or/public service which people buy.
I'd say that it's not unreasonable for consumers to expect a certain standard of quality within the product they buy, and not unreasonable for them to complain if the product does not meet those quality standards. By the same token, if I were purchasing a toaster, which was advertised as being able to toast four slices of bread simultaneously - and upon unboxing it, realised it could only toast two slices of bread I'd be justified in returning that product and asking for a refund.
Now of course there are stupid extremes of behaviour. The Mass Effect Andromeda animation thing was an object example of one such ridiculous extreme. It was a minor issue that was soon fixed in a game update (not that it lets EA off the hook for pushing out a product clearly before it's been properly quality-control tested). Harassment of game developers for any reason is never acceptable, and there are no valid excuses for it. There were far more important aspects of MA:A to complain about than a few superficial graphical flaws - based upon the entire direction of the game series.
The backlash over Mass Effect 3's ending did not happen 'years after the game's release'. The backlash occurred almost immediately, pretty-much as soon as sufficient number of people had completed the game. The people who objected to the endings had plenty of very-well documented reasons to kick up a fuss - but for the most part, the 'Retake Mass Effect' campaign was polite, generally humorous in it's campaigning and largely used high profile publicity stunts rather than abuse toward developers. The main mod based upon changing Mass Effect 3's ending is MEHEM, the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. The developers of this mod at no time or at any stage asked Bioware to support their mod.
Continuing on the theme of mods. Sometimes people do get upset if game updates break their mods. This usually happens with Bethesda titles such as Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remastered. The updates to these games arguably do not 'improve the games'. The updates exist purely to add more content to their 'Creation Club', mods-for-cash services. Personally I find the frustration of a person who refuses to use 'paid for' mods finding their own mods broken due to a Creation Club update quite understandable.
In conclusion I'd argue that game developers are not divine beings who's decisions, products and concepts are sacrosanct and immune to all criticism. Game developers are humans, and humans make mistakes. They provide a service which we purchase with our hard-earned cash. If no customer ever pointed out their dissatisfaction with a product, then the developers of that product would never receive any form of critical feedback; and thus would find it difficult to make realistic improvements to future products. The relationship between developer and customer should always be symbiotic - never abusive.
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Post by Gileadan on Jan 30, 2019 15:20:01 GMT
I actually played the original Xcom games back in the 90s. But the new game - from what I've read about it is heavily based around 'rusher gameplay', and all missions are a kind of race against the clock in which you have to play extremely quickly in order to avoid something bad happening. The new XCOM game (I assume you're referring to XCOM2 - War of the Chosen) has indeed introduced some mechanics that force you to move quickly, but it's not an actual race against a clock. It's still turn based and you can take as much time as you want for each turn. However, many missions fail if you exceed a certain number of turns to accomplish them while others require you to protect civilians while the aliens are actively trying to murder them. This means that your squad often has to rush - as in covering ground quickly to get where they need to be instead of playing it safe and overwatch-turtle forward. The player is not being rushed at all, but there is a defnite element of stress caused by the turn limits and civilians dying.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2019 16:00:05 GMT
If I was inclined to counter some of these points, I'd say that ultimately games companies are primarily here to make a profit, and in order to do so they supply a product/and/or/public service which people buy. I'd say that it's not unreasonable for consumers to expect a certain standard of quality within the product they buy, and not unreasonable for them to complain if the product does not meet those quality standards. By the same token, if I were purchasing a toaster, which was advertised as being able to toast four slices of bread simultaneously - and upon unboxing it, realised it could only toast two slices of bread I'd be justified in returning that product and asking for a refund. Now of course there are stupid extremes of behaviour. The Mass Effect Andromeda animation thing was an object example of one such ridiculous extreme. It was a minor issue that was soon fixed in a game update (not that it lets EA off the hook for pushing out a product clearly before it's been properly quality-control tested). Harassment of game developers for any reason is never acceptable, and there are no valid excuses for it. There were far more important aspects of MA:A to complain about than a few superficial graphical flaws - based upon the entire direction of the game series. The backlash over Mass Effect 3's ending did not happen 'years after the game's release'. The backlash occurred almost immediately, pretty-much as soon as sufficient number of people had completed the game. The people who objected to the endings had plenty of very-well documented reasons to kick up a fuss - but for the most part, the 'Retake Mass Effect' campaign was polite, generally humorous in it's campaigning and largely used high profile publicity stunts rather than abuse toward developers. The main mod based upon changing Mass Effect 3's ending is MEHEM, the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. The developers of this mod at no time or at any stage asked Bioware to support their mod. Continuing on the theme of mods. Sometimes people do get upset if game updates break their mods. This usually happens with Bethesda titles such as Fallout 4 and Skyrim Remastered. The updates to these games arguably do not 'improve the games'. The updates exist purely to add more content to their 'Creation Club', mods-for-cash services. Personally I find the frustration of a person who refuses to use 'paid for' mods finding their own mods broken due to a Creation Club update quite understandable. In conclusion I'd argue that game developers are not divine beings who's decisions, products and concepts are sacrosanct and immune to all criticism. Game developers are humans, and humans make mistakes. They provide a service which we purchase with our hard-earned cash. If no customer ever pointed out their dissatisfaction with a product, then the developers of that product would never receive any form of critical feedback; and thus would find it difficult to make realistic improvements to future products. The relationship between developer and customer should always be symbiotic - never abusive. 1) Any corporation is there primarily to make a profit. If it's not, then it become a non-profit organization which falls under a different set of corporate documents, tax laws, and they have a legal obligation to spend it's monies in a particular way.
2) Consumers have a right to complain... to the company and ask for refunds if the product is faulty. They cannot legally make the company refund their monies if they simply don't like the product. If I purchased an Andromeda disc that failed to work in my console, then I'd have a right to ask for a refund. I don't have a right to ask for a refund just because I didn't like how the animators drew eyes on the characters.
3) What you describe as extreme behavior is, from what I can see happening during lots of recent game releases, becoming more "the norm" than the extreme. It's intensified over time and is, IMO, feeding on itself because of the "Youtube factor" I mentioned. Rampant specutlative criticism that X game (that is months before being released) is going to be "bad" simply because X company is making it is also increasing... setting games up to be received negatively upon release.
4) Specific to Fallout 4 Creation Club - I personally have bought a fair bit of it and it has, IMO, improved the vanilla game. I can't imagine, for example, not having quick access to the Military Backpack or the Nu Cafe Ola player home. They compete with the free mods and I'm continually told I should use the freebies instead... BUT, I want my ability to get achievements unhampered so I'm not willing to use free mods. Since it disables achievements and the player has to mess with things like load order and conflicts between mods (in addition to the risk of the mod becoming obsolete because an update to the game breaks it), I would argue that it's the free mods that don't improve the game. I'm not against the devs supporting them... it gives a chance for amateur programmers to learn the ropes and for people who program in other areas to expand their expertise into gaming. At the bottom line, though, the game is STILL the intellectual property of the devs. If modders want to program their own games, they can do that (I'm all for indie developers); but then they will be taking on all the risks and spending all the money setting up their companies to do it in the process... and no doubt, they too will ultimately want to make a profit at it.
5) I am somewhat unimpressed by Bethesda in that some of the CC items have triggered an increase in the manifestation of certain bugs known to exist in the vanilla game (Codsworth Out of Time, for exmaple). I do feel Bethesda should fix those bugs, even though they've officially pulled support for the game. I think releasing CC has, in effect, re-opened their obligation to support the game.
6) Finally, ME3's endings - Yes, there was an immediate backlash... but I was specifically referring to those that continue to carry on about it to this day... years after the game released. Bioware folding to the public pressure and releasing the EC only empowered those who were complaining initially to continue complaining because, in effect, the EC didn't fix it the exact way they wanted it fixed.
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