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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2019 4:25:58 GMT
Think of it like this way. The way video games were designed were like movies. You would get one release and then that was pretty much it If you get DLC or stuff it would be simple little flavor side stories (usually) which just expand on and tie into the world and are actually kind of unimportant in the same thing. Like some movies would release little mini videos on the web or do tie in novels.
Live Service is like a TV show. These games will be designed with continuing storytelling in mind. Microtransactions are like adds (though in this case completley optional) since video games don't do 'adds'.
As for that Watch Mojo video listing the 'problems' of Live Service games. It failed...mostly. It confused single player and multiplayer games, called Assassins Creed Odyssey a 'failure' which for the most part I thought it has been a commercial and critical success and was just really vague when it came to all its criticisms. It was all like 'this is the problems with live service' and then didn't actually list any, only talking about trends in the market and concluding on 'live service isn't inherently bad'...no kidding.
And why shouldn't DA 4 have live service elements in it? That is a better question in my mind.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 26, 2019 4:39:21 GMT
Well, that’s the million-dollar question, right? DA players don’t need to be hooked for longer because many of us do repeat playthroughs. I'm not sure that's true of the player base in general - those of us who hang out on the internet talking about the series are statistical outliers who do all kinds of weird things that a majority of players don't do. (Like playing as rogues or female characters or races other than human and actually finishing the games.) I think making multiple characters is almost certainly one of those things that only hardcore players do, whereas buying extra content that's available while you're playing the game the first time might have broader appeal.
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Post by anarchy65 on Feb 26, 2019 4:48:19 GMT
I don't think DA4 is at risk of not being made, but I see two roads from now on
1: EA will see that Bioware is not going along well with the Frostbite Engine and the likes of games like Andromeda and Anthem, and so will let them focus on what they are really good at: classic RPGs. They may have some online experience/exploration, but the focus will be on story and characters
2: EA will start bleeding Bioware, demanding they continue to produce games with the Frostbite Engine and developed towards microtransactions, big open worlds and exploration, leading to another failure like Andromeda and Anthem. There will probably be budget cuts, people being fired... it will be ugly and may lead to Bioware shutting down.
Which one you guys think is more likely to happen?
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Post by colfoley on Feb 26, 2019 4:49:14 GMT
Well, that’s the million-dollar question, right? DA players don’t need to be hooked for longer because many of us do repeat playthroughs. I'm not sure that's true of the player base in general - those of us who hang out on the internet talking about the series are statistical outliers who do all kinds of weird things that a majority of players don't do. (Like playing as rogues or female characters or races other than human and actually finishing the games.) I think making multiple characters is almost certainly one of those things that only hardcore players do, whereas buying extra content that's available while you're playing the game the first time might have broader appeal.
It is actually something I've considered Depending on how fast the new content releases making more then one character for DA 4 just might not be in the cards. Though we'll see because I also know people are on like their 5th playthrough of Odyssey now too.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 26, 2019 5:33:28 GMT
Well, that’s the million-dollar question, right? DA players don’t need to be hooked for longer because many of us do repeat playthroughs. I'm not sure that's true of the player base in general - those of us who hang out on the internet talking about the series are statistical outliers who do all kinds of weird things that a majority of players don't do. (Like playing as rogues or female characters or races other than human and actually finishing the games.) I think making multiple characters is almost certainly one of those things that only hardcore players do, whereas buying extra content that's available while you're playing the game the first time might have broader appeal.
I believe the Bio tracking data proves you correct. In retrospect, tracking data is probably bad for outliers like us, since now the publishers now know for certain that we aren't very common. Although we still punch above our weight because the hardcore fans can drive the discourse around a game.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 26, 2019 7:01:36 GMT
I don't understand why a single player game needs live-service elements. If your game doesn't have microtransactions or a subscription fee, what do you have to gain? I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 26, 2019 7:19:31 GMT
I don't understand why a single player game needs live-service elements. If your game doesn't have microtransactions or a subscription fee, what do you have to gain? I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
To deliver content patches and bug fixes, maaaaaybe? I dunno. But also, they just plain don't care about the offline audience, lol. Why waste precious resources on even having that option.
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Post by Sifr on Feb 26, 2019 7:36:07 GMT
I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
To deliver content patches and bug fixes, maaaaaybe? I dunno. But also, they just plain don't care about the offline audience, lol. Why waste precious resources on even having that option. Because we couldn't do that before, in the days when when games were played offline?
I'm not suggesting we go back to the days of downloading patches from websites directly. Patch sizes have gotten far too massive to make that feasible and it's not really even an option for console players. All I'm suggesting is let us boot up the game and play it offline.
If we need patches, updates or bug-fixes, then we can connect to the internet... like we used to.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 26, 2019 7:47:19 GMT
I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
- Telemetry. That option has been in the "online options" of recent BioWare games, and was set to "active" by default. EA likes to know which games you play how often, and which activities you prefer in your games. - DLC DRM - Achievements and leaderboards. Suuurely you want to know how you compare to your friends? Right?
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 26, 2019 10:14:01 GMT
There are so many whispers about EA and Bioware being in crisis. They are now.
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Post by Elfen Lied on Feb 26, 2019 11:11:49 GMT
: EA will see that Bioware is not going along well with the Frostbite Engine and the likes of games like Andromeda and Anthem, and so will let them focus on what they are really good at: classic RPGs. They may have some online experience/exploration, but the focus will be on story and characters I don't see that happening.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 26, 2019 16:23:17 GMT
There are so many whispers about EA and Bioware being in crisis. They are now. *snip* I find Laymen Gaming to be a bit more nuanced on the subject. : EA will see that Bioware is not going along well with the Frostbite Engine and the likes of games like Andromeda and Anthem, and so will let them focus on what they are really good at: classic RPGs. They may have some online experience/exploration, but the focus will be on story and characters I don't see that happening. The more likely scenario is that EA doubles down on its “single-player is dead” philosophy, instead viewing the problem with Anthem as its single-player campaign. But you never know. EA supposedly maintained a light touch with Apex Legends, knowing that their oversight and a big marketing push would taint the game in the eyes of gamers.
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Post by alanc9 on Feb 26, 2019 17:43:24 GMT
I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
To deliver content patches and bug fixes, maaaaaybe? I dunno. But also, they just plain don't care about the offline audience, lol. Why waste precious resources on even having that option. Right. The number of gamers who don't have good persistent internet is small and dropping. At some point it's just not worth thinking about something if implementing it takes any effort whatsoever.
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Post by Frost on Feb 27, 2019 0:50:18 GMT
I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
I have only played one live service game, AC:Odyssey, and I was able to play it offline when I was having Internet issues. I think you have to activate it once online, but after that you can play offline if you want. Hopefully DA4 will be the same.
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Post by Fredward on Feb 27, 2019 11:03:07 GMT
Yeah, live service doesn't HAVE to mean always online/multiplayer. Sims 4 is an example of SP live service and it's apparently doing very well.
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Post by Reznore on Feb 27, 2019 11:59:39 GMT
Yeah, live service doesn't HAVE to mean always online/multiplayer. Sims 4 is an example of SP live service and it's apparently doing very well. Eh. Sims 4 is ok but it suffered from the old "reboot" phenomenon. It was first work on as a sort of online multiplayer game. The base game suffered from it, it took years of patches and they had the good idea to add some big free content. Like toddlers after like two years. Thing is the sims themselves don't have the personality of the old games, and there are a number of random events that just aren't there anymore. There's no more bugglars, police, firefighters. Imho the sims 4 is very correct as a game (although you have to pay a lot for all of the content, it's way beyong a 60 dollar game) but the game suffered from the reboot/first idea of always online/multiplayer and as a result lacks the charm of sims 2/ sims 3.
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Post by majesticjazz on Feb 27, 2019 13:20:26 GMT
You have to remember, Bioware went all in on Anthem because it HAD to be a success after MEA failed, there was panic and Anthem became their savior. They even pulled people from the DA4 team to work on Anthem as it was that important.
Excuses with MEA was that:
1) It had a rocky development 2) It was the B-Team that made it 3) The passion just wasnt there to make a new ME game especially after how ME3 was received
As for Anthem, it was supposed to succeed because:
1) It didn't have a rocky development like MEA 2) It was made by the A-team 3) It was a game Bioware wanted to do, especially after the surprise success of ME3MP
Now that Anthem is an even worse failure than MEA....how does Bioware recover? Are we now looking to DA4 as the saving grace? Wasnt that supposed to be Anthem?
Personally, I think DA4 still gets made because DAI sold well and they wont abandon it. My hope is that they tone down on the "live service" aspect and just make a true DA4 SP game.
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 27, 2019 18:32:46 GMT
Personally, I think DA4 still gets made because DAI sold well and they wont abandon it. My hope is that they tone down on the "live service" aspect and just make a true DA4 SP game. I agree it makes no sense (at least for me) to cancel DA 4. DAI still is Bioware best selling game ever. Bioware put all its resources into Anthem but they really needs DA 4 the fastest way possible. Lets hope there is an intern gameplay demo soon to calm down EA.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 28, 2019 18:39:47 GMT
I don't understand why a single player game needs live-service elements. If your game doesn't have microtransactions or a subscription fee, what do you have to gain? I don't understand why single-player games need to be online at all.
If you're not going to use any online, LS or multiplayer content, what's the point? Let us play them entirely offline.
Yeah I'm with you on that other than for purchasing DLC's I'd prefer my SP games to be just that completely offline just boot up the game and play. It was a pain in the neck when they initially did ME3 the way they did but they learned from that I think and at least with DAI they made MP a pretty much a entirely separate game tbh as is Andromeda's for the most part. Yes you can use MEA's MP to gather resources for the single player só it is connected in that sense but you don't necessarily have to. The option to do that is entirely the players.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 28, 2019 19:44:26 GMT
Yeah I'm with you on that other than for purchasing DLC's I'd prefer my SP games to be just that completely offline just boot up the game and play. Were you able to play DAI without being on-line and logging into Origin, because I couldn't. I prefer being able to load up the game, register and get any updates on-line and then not have to go near the internet again in order to play but DA2 was the last time I was able to do this. What was I doing wrong?
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 28, 2019 21:04:48 GMT
Yeah I'm with you on that other than for purchasing DLC's I'd prefer my SP games to be just that completely offline just boot up the game and play. Were you able to play DAI without being on-line and logging into Origin, because I couldn't. I prefer being able to load up the game, register and get any updates on-line and then not have to go near the internet again in order to play but DA2 was the last time I was able to do this. What was I doing wrong? No bu twit hDAI you don' t necessarily have to stay online once the game's up and running you don't have to be connected. You onl need t obe online for the initial bootup and for importing your world state. Once that's done though you don't need to.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 28, 2019 21:19:28 GMT
No bu twit hDAI you don' t necessarily have to stay online once the game's up and running you don't have to be connected. You onl need t obe online for the initial bootup and for importing your world state. Once that's done though you don't need to. But if you shut down your computer for the night and start up again in the morning, you still have to go on-line to load the game. That is what I meant. I know that once I had logged into Origin, I could go off line again. It was still friggin' annoying, particularly if for some reason Origin wasn't letting me log in. For me, for a game to be totally off line, once I have loaded the game originally, then I shouldn't need to go near the internet again. If for some reason internet isn't working, I could still play my game. This was the case with DAO and DA2 but not DAI.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 28, 2019 21:36:06 GMT
No bu twit hDAI you don' t necessarily have to stay online once the game's up and running you don't have to be connected. You onl need t obe online for the initial bootup and for importing your world state. Once that's done though you don't need to. But if you shut down your computer for the night and start up again in the morning, you still have to go on-line to load the game. That is what I meant. I know that once I had logged into Origin, I could go off line again. It was still friggin' annoying, particularly if for some reason Origin wasn't letting me log in. For me, for a game to be totally off line, once I have loaded the game originally, then I shouldn't need to go near the internet again. If for some reason internet isn't working, I could still play my game. This was the case with DAO and DA2 but not DAI. You still have to with DAO and DA2 for the DLC's though. Also with Steam and Origin I don't think you'er going to get away without having to be online at least some of the time now anyway for any game. Even fo rSP games especially if said games have DLC which a lot of them do. So long as it's only really used to sell games and for selling DLC's for games I don't have a problem but the constant need to be online I think needs to be toned down a bit though yes.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
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Post by melbella on Mar 1, 2019 1:34:48 GMT
No bu twit hDAI you don' t necessarily have to stay online once the game's up and running you don't have to be connected. You onl need t obe online for the initial bootup and for importing your world state. Once that's done though you don't need to. But if you shut down your computer for the night and start up again in the morning, you still have to go on-line to load the game. That is what I meant. I know that once I had logged into Origin, I could go off line again. It was still friggin' annoying, particularly if for some reason Origin wasn't letting me log in. For me, for a game to be totally off line, once I have loaded the game originally, then I shouldn't need to go near the internet again. If for some reason internet isn't working, I could still play my game. This was the case with DAO and DA2 but not DAI.
I'm pretty sure you can set Origin to offline and still be able to play DAI. You can't play it without Origin running though.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 1, 2019 2:59:57 GMT
melbella's right. The annoying part is having to manually log in again if you weren't set offline before your connection failed,, since for some reason the offline login isn't persistent even though the online one is.
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