Talon
N2
✜ Mako Thrill Driver
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Sicklemower
PSN: TinTalon
Posts: 158 Likes: 368
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Talon on Feb 1, 2019 15:13:39 GMT
Devs have already said that the difficulty has been raised in the final product, so no, they don't need to all be harder, or an hour or more to complete with a dedicated, organized team. I can see a possible compromise though, if some strongholds had different lengths, and it was clear what the estimated time to finish would be. If your team can take the time for a longer one, great. If someone needs to log off soon, or can't guarantee an uninterrupted long session, then short strongholds are good. We've only seen one stronghold, maybe the devs have something like this in mind. No one said more than an hour. I said half an hour - Tyrant Mine can be completed in under ten minutes easily. First, I didn't quote you, I'm not saying that you, specifically, said it should be an hour. I actually agree that up to half an hour would be reasonable. But, you say it can be done in under ten minutes, easily. On what difficulty? With an organized group? Skipping enemies? Was it the first time you played it, or the tenth? What's easy for you might not be so easy for someone else, say someone with mobility or coordination issues. The devs have already said that the difficulty has been raised in the final product. We don't know how the difficulty scales in the final build, we don't know what they have planned in the way of upcoming strongholds, or even the other two that we haven't seen yet. Maybe Tyrant Mine is a beginner stronghold. We don't know.I suggested a possible compromise, one that might satisfy most players. Different length, different number of bosses, different difficulties. ESO does this with dungeons, having normal and vet mode, and ones in the base game generally being easier than those introduced in DLC.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 16:42:52 GMT
What I liked about the Stronghold was that the first section wasn't trivial. Wiped a few times on that one. I don't want to see a huge difficulty spike on the final stage and lose the loot opportunity. You just restart from a checkpoint.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 16:44:37 GMT
No one said more than an hour. I said half an hour - Tyrant Mine can be completed in under ten minutes easily. First, I didn't quote you, I'm not saying that you, specifically, said it should be an hour. I actually agree that up to half an hour would be reasonable. But, you say it can be done in under ten minutes, easily. On what difficulty? With an organized group? Skipping enemies? Was it the first time you played it, or the tenth? What's easy for you might not be so easy for someone else, say someone with mobility or coordination issues. The devs have already said that the difficulty has been raised in the final product. We don't know how the difficulty scales in the final build, we don't know what they have planned in the way of upcoming strongholds, or even the other two that we haven't seen yet. Maybe Tyrant Mine is a beginner stronghold. We don't know.I suggested a possible compromise, one that might satisfy most players. Different length, different number of bosses, different difficulties. ESO does this with dungeons, having normal and vet mode, and ones in the base game generally being easier than those introduced in DLC. Vet mode is already in the game as GM difficulties. I can pretty much predict that most players won't progress past GM1.
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aznricepuff
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: aznricepuff
XBL Gamertag: aznricepuff
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 1, 2019 18:57:16 GMT
Lots of info on endgame just dropped today. The devs basically came out and said that Strongholds were not designed to be comparable to Destiny raids - they're supposed to be shorter and easier to jump into with pugs. It seems that Anthem and Destiny have fundamentally different endgame philosophies. Personally I'm fine with that. Also, this article mentions a third type of endgame content: Cataclysms. Not a lot of details, but it seems like these will be a step above Strongholds in terms of difficulty (though apparently still not quite at the level of Destiny raids). They are part of the whole live service thing and will be time-limited (boo...hopefully the time window is reasonable, like 2 weeks or more; I don't have so much free time that I can jump on and play on demand any day, any week).
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Post by alexious on Feb 1, 2019 19:51:36 GMT
Lots of info on endgame just dropped today. The devs basically came out and said that Strongholds were not designed to be comparable to Destiny raids - they're supposed to be shorter and easier to jump into with pugs. It seems that Anthem and Destiny have fundamentally different endgame philosophies. Personally I'm fine with that. Also, this article mentions a third type of endgame content: Cataclysms. Not a lot of details, but it seems like these will be a step above Strongholds in terms of difficulty (though apparently still not quite at the level of Destiny raids). They are part of the whole live service thing and will be time-limited (boo...hopefully the time window is reasonable, like 2 weeks or more; I don't have so much free time that I can jump on and play on demand any day, any week). What's really weird is that they did say there was a need for aspirational content, but neither the Strongholds nor the Cataclysms (which look a lot like the Shaper Storms mentioned much earlier in development) can be that. Honestly, what any game of this kind needs is some sort of raid-style content which requires significant teamwork and strategy to complete. They don't have to do it Destiny's way either, avoiding matchmaking for raids. They could just lock Grand Master difficulties for matchmade raids, for example, while allowing folks who don't much care about having the highest possible stats to still experience that content.
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 1, 2019 19:53:42 GMT
We play the Stronghold in the demo at lvl 10-15. If this is an accurate representation of what to expect in the final game, then it's not endgame content. I'm guessing it will be scaled accordingly and it will be a 20-30 min mission assuming the enemies aren't skipped over (idk why you would willingly skip over potential loot and experience anyway). I agree that if Strongholds are 10 min missions they would be too short, but I doubt they will be.
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aznricepuff
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: aznricepuff
XBL Gamertag: aznricepuff
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 1, 2019 20:08:35 GMT
We play the Stronghold in the demo at lvl 10-15. If this is an accurate representation of what to expect in the final game, then it's not endgame content. I'm guessing it will be scaled accordingly and it will be a 20-30 min mission assuming the enemies aren't skipped over (idk why you would willingly skip over potential loot and experience anyway). I agree that if Strongholds are 10 min missions they would be too short, but I doubt they will be. One of the endgame marketing articles mentioned that of the 3 strongholds available at launch, one is unlocked during the story and two are unlocked after you finish the story. My bet is that Tyrant Mine is the one unlocked during the story and it will be the "lower tier" stronghold of the three. I don't think they scaled it down to level 10-15 just for the demo (they might have tweaked the levels a little bit but I doubt they went to the trouble of converting it from level 30 content). As for skipping over enemies - you don't get experience for mob kills, so that's not an issue. For loot, that simply becomes an issue of: if skipping enemies me farm the stronghold to get the guaranteed loot (from chests and stronghold completion) X+A times per hour instead of just X times per hour, does that net me more loot than killing all the enemies?
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 1, 2019 20:14:30 GMT
One of the endgame marketing articles mentioned that of the 3 strongholds available at launch, one is unlocked during the story and two are unlocked after you finish the story. My bet is that Tyrant Mine is the one unlocked during the story and it will be the "lower tier" stronghold of the three. I don't think they scaled it down to level 10-15 just for the demo (they might have tweaked the levels a little bit but I doubt they went to the trouble of converting it from level 30 content). As for skipping over enemies - you don't get experience for mob kills, so that's not an issue. For loot, that simply becomes an issue of: if skipping enemies me farm the stronghold to get the guaranteed loot (from chests and stronghold completion) X+A times per hour instead of just X times per hour, does that net me more loot than killing all the enemies? How do you know what does and doesn't give you xp?
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aznricepuff
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: aznricepuff
XBL Gamertag: aznricepuff
Posts: 182 Likes: 197
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 1, 2019 20:19:44 GMT
How do you know what does and doesn't give you xp? Going by what happens in the demo. Of course that could change for the full release, but a detail like that I assume will stay the same.
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 1, 2019 20:29:00 GMT
How do you know what does and doesn't give you xp? Going by what happens in the demo. Of course that could change for the full release, but a detail like that I assume will stay the same. The xp was all over the place in the demo, I couldn't tell what was going on. I was stuck on lvl 10 for like 8 missions & next thing I knew I was lvl 15. Plus in general I could never tell jow mich xp I got from a kill.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 1, 2019 20:48:54 GMT
We play the Stronghold in the demo at lvl 10-15. If this is an accurate representation of what to expect in the final game, then it's not endgame content. I'm guessing it will be scaled accordingly and it will be a 20-30 min mission assuming the enemies aren't skipped over ( idk why you would willingly skip over potential loot and experience anyway). I agree that if Strongholds are 10 min missions they would be too short, but I doubt they will be. Because some of us like to min/max our time and reward scheme when we play. The xp gained and loot dropped from mobs is minuscule compared to the end mission reward, so you maximize your xp & loot / time ratio by hitting completion as quickly as possible.
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Post by crackdownjr on Feb 1, 2019 21:05:25 GMT
We play the Stronghold in the demo at lvl 10-15. If this is an accurate representation of what to expect in the final game, then it's not endgame content. I'm guessing it will be scaled accordingly and it will be a 20-30 min mission assuming the enemies aren't skipped over ( idk why you would willingly skip over potential loot and experience anyway). I agree that if Strongholds are 10 min missions they would be too short, but I doubt they will be. Because some of us like to min/max our time and reward scheme when we play. The xp gained and loot dropped from mobs is minuscule compared to the end mission reward, so you maximize your xp & loot / time ratio by hitting completion as quickly as possible. Thanks for the info. I'm not very familiar with looter shooters and I'd like to be as efficient as possible
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by biggydx on Feb 1, 2019 21:07:35 GMT
We play the Stronghold in the demo at lvl 10-15. If this is an accurate representation of what to expect in the final game, then it's not endgame content. I'm guessing it will be scaled accordingly and it will be a 20-30 min mission assuming the enemies aren't skipped over ( idk why you would willingly skip over potential loot and experience anyway). I agree that if Strongholds are 10 min missions they would be too short, but I doubt they will be. Because some of us like to min/max our time and reward scheme when we play. The xp gained and loot dropped from mobs is minuscule compared to the end mission reward, so you maximize your xp & loot / time ratio by hitting completion as quickly as possible. Not only that, but dismantling the lower tier loot works towards crafting fuel for better gear and components.
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