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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 12, 2019 7:08:15 GMT
As they should, since Antisocial is negative by definition, while Introverted and Social Anxiety are not. Antisocial behavior would align more closely to the category "toxicity". I doubt, anybody is imposing any scientific or clinical standards from latest ICD or DSM, but not conflating antisocial behavior with introversion should be general knowledge (even if we were to take sometimes seen vernacular definition of antisocial = inhibition or unwillingness to engage in a social situations. We shouldn't but even if we would it's different from introversion. Why they are a category and then social anxiety is separate from those two, I'll never know). I haven't seen her raw data, but these classification are quite weird, but then again her original tweet was formulated in a peculiar way, so who knows what's going on. It's not a big deal or anything. I think, I can understand the table and it sort of makes sense, and servers its purpose. Albeit, I am surprised that there isn't category for "privacy" (I often enjoy privacy, especially in the context of video games. It's not motivated by anxiety, inhibition or introversion and definitely not antisociality, but simply desire to be alone and enjoy privacy for a little while).
Can we all agree that this tweet was purely an attempt to advertise the message that their systems to deal with toxicity are top notch?
And as such that solo players don't need to worry as much as they do?
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 12, 2019 7:19:48 GMT
I'm on the road to Anthem so you will be in the launch bay on thursday night as well? Nup, Windows 10 is not on my gaming rig and I'm uncomfortable launching a game meant for Windows 10 on Windows 7. I'll monitor that chat about Anthem and if it's clear Win 7 users have no problems, then in 2 or 3 months you will. I don't like jumping into things at launch unless I'm certain everything will go smoothly. It looks possible to solo so I'll eventually be playing it. Maybe I'll just get it for console ... My main concern about Anthem at the moment is there are no suits that suit my playstyle. I don't really play shooters for melee which rules out interceptor, and storm is magic and I got my fantasy games for that. I'm looking for something nimble that relies on firearms, and so far ... Ranger? Might have to load up Storm and see if it's possible to limit the magic side of things. I reckon ranger is your thing. It's look belies it's mobility. I think the powers for ranger are underwhelming, personally (but then again... I'm a storm user so I might be biased. Also, storm is NOT for gunplay.), but if you count on gunplay mostly, that won't be a problem for you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 8:20:08 GMT
From her classification scheme, I think it's likely that responses with such concerns would have been filed under "antisocial/introvert." From the ways she's expressed herself, I doubt she'd be very good at disaggregating these concerns. I'd agree with that. It would've been a worthy distinction, though I reckon there's a possibility that sentiment is not found from raw data she was presented with, or it wasn't significant to warrant its own categorization. That would be quite interesting, maybe it tells about gamers or a society as whole, if they don't feel or cannot or don't want to express consciously an occasional desire for solitude and privacy (unless framing it as a temperamental or even pathological issue instead of normative and non-temperamental behavior).
Can we all agree that this tweet was purely an attempt to advertise the message that their systems to deal with toxicity are top notch?
And as such that solo players don't need to worry as much as they do?
I just took it at face value (as in she was curious about attitudes towards MP, made an inquiry and then published the results). If there's something more to that, then whatever. For me the discussion and subject is more interesting than her motives (which are not particularly interesting, nor do I care was it prompted by BW or herself or some combination, or why they did it, or any of that).
Edit: as a clarification, I am not singling her out or belittling her, as implying that she especially isn't worthy of attention or interest. In generalized sense, I keep distance from all devs (not only BW ones), and I don't care who they are, or what their motivations, state of mind, or intentions are. I wouldn't notice a difference, if the entire industry would adapt medieval model and mindset, in which art and products are rarely if ever attributed or signed to individuals, but are treated entirely as a collective endeavors.
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Post by Toy Soldier Ken on Feb 12, 2019 8:21:35 GMT
A lot won't admit it, but when they can't do certain things alone, they will claim the game sucks.
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Post by Sylvae on Feb 12, 2019 8:31:31 GMT
It’s weird to me as I’ve bumped into so few people I’d call toxic online. Thousands of hours of online games and maybe 10 hours of toxic behavior. I haven’t done much online gaming recently so maybe it’s got worse the last few years. But people complained about it back then as well. Maybe I’m just lucky but I kind of suspect it is rare people just hold onto these rare moments exaggerating the impact in their minds. My experience is, from many an hour in SWTOR and GW2, the more competitive enviroment, the higher a chance to meet toxic people - PvP, for instance, tends to be the most toxic, from what I saw, at least.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 12, 2019 8:39:12 GMT
It’s weird to me as I’ve bumped into so few people I’d call toxic online. Thousands of hours of online games and maybe 10 hours of toxic behavior. I haven’t done much online gaming recently so maybe it’s got worse the last few years. But people complained about it back then as well. Maybe I’m just lucky but I kind of suspect it is rare people just hold onto these rare moments exaggerating the impact in their minds. My experience is, from many an hour in SWTOR and GW2, the more competitive enviroment, the higher a chance to meet toxic people - PvP, for instance, tends to be the most toxic, from what I saw, at least. Depends on the game. I never found it when playing DCS. Barely anything but banter in Warband. None in Fractured Space. They are not exactly big titles so the griefers and toxidudes mostly seek easier targets.
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Post by Sylvae on Feb 12, 2019 8:52:29 GMT
As they should, since Antisocial is negative by definition, while Introverted and Social Anxiety are not. Antisocial behavior would align more closely to the category "toxicity". I doubt, anybody is imposing any scientific or clinical standards from latest ICD or DSM, but not conflating antisocial behavior with introversion should be general knowledge (even if we were to take sometimes seen vernacular definition of antisocial = inhibition or unwillingness to engage in a social situations. We shouldn't but even if we would it's different from introversion. Why they are a category and then social anxiety is separate from those two, I'll never know). I haven't seen her raw data, but these classification are quite weird, but then again her original tweet was formulated in a peculiar way, so who knows what's going on. It's not a big deal or anything. I think, I can understand the table and it sort of makes sense, and servers its purpose. Albeit, I am surprised that there isn't category for "privacy" (I often enjoy privacy, especially in the context of video games. It's not motivated by anxiety, inhibition or introversion and definitely not antisociality, but simply desire to be alone and enjoy privacy for a little while).
Introverts might incline (or tend to) being asocial, which is not bad behavior per se, but it is different than antisocial...
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Post by AnDromedary on Feb 12, 2019 20:55:15 GMT
I will definitely do my initial run through of the story on my own. When I play the story, I want to do so on my own pace and that pace usually is very slow. I want to explore the little things about the places I visit, see if I can find anything in the furthest corners, maybe a notepad here or just a little piece of environmental story telling there. I can't do that when I play with others, especially randoms. Even if they would wait for me, I'd constantly feel pressured and like I am holding up the team. Therefore, I just can't enjoy exploring the world and the story. When I play with friends on the other hand, I get distracted way too easily. In that case, I want to talk to them, chat, make fun of things, I certainly cannot get into the mindset that I need to get into and enjoy the atmosphere of a science-fantasy story. This si something I need to do on my own.
That, for me, is the main reason to play this game alone, at least at first, mainly because I need to do it on my own pace and to be able to concentrate on what NPCs are telling me about the world and the story.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 12, 2019 21:08:16 GMT
Fair enough, though it's not like this thing is remotely scientific. It could have been written as Introverted, Antisocial, or Social Anxiety...but I suppose some might take offense. As they should, since Antisocial is negative by definition, while Introverted and Social Anxiety are not. So then should those be 3 separate categories? I'm most definitely introverted, but I'm not antisocial or have any type of social anxiety...though I don't have any kind of good working definition or criteria for the latter two...don't really care either 'cause I think labels are stupid.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 13, 2019 3:24:28 GMT
No text chat is a start ... Per player mute on voice chat is another. You can't stop toxicity, but you can give people tools to filter out the parts they don't like. Basically you want to limit toxicity by removing interaction with other people. I'm really up with your solution, can I suggest we continue on this journey? Because at the very end we'll have what we all crave in Bioware games - a single player game. Touche.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 13, 2019 3:34:17 GMT
And text chat is being excluded from Anthem due to new regulations in the US, it's not being excluded to reduce toxicity. Because text chat isn't just a haven for toxic players but a place for all people to hang out in. All rubbing out text chat does is reduce interactivity as a whole. I'm currently playing ESO, let me take a screenshot at the current text chat: Oh no, people helping new players. The horror. Oh, I can do better than that. I have chat logs from the MP FPS servers I used to run. Here's a random sample: [16:51:21] astrom90 - Defenders > why no def? [16:51:27] astrom90 - Defenders > just me and turbotomte [16:55:03] terbilux > srsly 50% of my deaths are just spawning and dying before i even see anything [16:55:07] whammi > gg [16:55:09] astrom90 - Defenders > worst team ever [16:55:11] GarraSwe > gg [16:55:15] Jahetiswat - Attackers > gg [16:55:18] terbilux - Defenders > go away [16:55:33] astrom90 - Defenders > l2p [16:56:26] terbilux - Attackers > stop whinig Here's a more targeted sample: [00:13:08] GingerBlackMinge > wow ass emblem [00:13:11] GingerBlackMinge > bitch plz [00:13:14] Jeryn_Face > XD [00:13:20] Jeryn_Face > cry more [00:16:24] PinkiePieCupkake > a shotgun? lol [00:16:50] StellarPenguins > I just looked like a biiiiiitch [00:16:54] CygnusJake > lol. [00:17:11] rorospider > no u not a bitch u r a pussy [00:17:29] CygnusJake > Guess I am what I eat. [00:17:33] StellarPenguins > ror, look at your score [00:18:13] GingerBlackMinge > bitch ass niggas Admittedly, that stuff's pretty mild. The bullying and death threats are a lot worse. So, yeah, I'm okay with no text chat in Anthem.
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 13, 2019 7:49:34 GMT
I doubt that text chat was "removed" because of potential "toxicity" - something has to exist first before it can be removed. Like in all previous BioWare MP offerings, it's likely not there because they're all developed for consoles first and then ported to PC without any changes or additions. Just look at the UI.
It's not like the devs could just add an option to hide the chat window or leave the channels altogether if players didn't want to deal with annoying text chat.
I would really like to ask BioWare a question in return. Why and when have you become so hostile towards solo players?
ME3MP has a "Lone Wolf" banner. Anthem locks you out of most content if you play solo.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 13, 2019 8:37:33 GMT
I probably would have lumped antisocial/introvert with social anxiety (probably a strong correlation there). That would have been the 2nd biggest impediment for SP players reasoning for not participating in MP games. I said in the Twitter thread that I don't think Introvert and Antisocial should be lumped together, that's both apples and oranges and somewhat judgmental. Introvert and Social Anxiety would be okay, since many people with social anxiety disorders are also introverts -- though not the reverse. Yes, helios969, you have no idea what you're talking about. One is a destructive personality disorder that often ends in jail time, the other is not. Also, I'm tired of the introversion=social anxiety equation. I know shy extroverts and pretty gregarious outgoing introverts. Introversion/extroversion is about whether or not people give you enegry or drain you. Most people are somewhere in the middle. That is all. You're born leaning one way or the other. Introversion is not a disorder, a condition to be treated. Anxiety is a disorder that CAN be treated.
Sorry, stuff like that pisses me off.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2019 9:04:22 GMT
Soloing was (and probably still is) a player retaining factor in ME3MP. It is one in Warframe and it used to be pretty big in SWTOR when I played it. It pretty much helped shape the ME3MP community as it is. Solo / SP mode also helped keep a game you just bought playable when the MP you got it for was shit.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 13, 2019 9:35:59 GMT
I said in the Twitter thread that I don't think Introvert and Antisocial should be lumped together, that's both apples and oranges and somewhat judgmental. Introvert and Social Anxiety would be okay, since many people with social anxiety disorders are also introverts -- though not the reverse. Yes, helios969 , you have no idea what you're talking about. One is a destructive personality disorder that often ends in jail time, the other is not. Also, I'm tired of the introversion=social anxiety equation. I know shy extroverts and pretty gregarious outgoing introverts. Introversion/extroversion is about whether or not people give you enegry or drain you. Most people are somewhere in the middle. That is all. You're born leaning one way or the other. Introversion is not a disorder, a condition to be treated. Anxiety is a disorder that CAN be treated.
Sorry, stuff like that pisses me off.
*salutes with secret introvert hand sign*
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Post by saandrig on Feb 13, 2019 10:01:34 GMT
I would really like to ask BioWare a question in return. Why and when have you become so hostile towards solo players? Well, it could be EA or whatever, but I will just say this: A Solo player pays 60 dollars for your SP game that you make every 2-5 years and maybe 60 more for DLCs. A MP player gives you 60 dollars for a game you can clone almost every year and there is a high chance the same player will pay 5-30 dollars each week for more packs, cosmetics, emotes, etc. What's there to love about the Solo player?
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Post by helios969 on Feb 13, 2019 10:03:55 GMT
I said in the Twitter thread that I don't think Introvert and Antisocial should be lumped together, that's both apples and oranges and somewhat judgmental. Introvert and Social Anxiety would be okay, since many people with social anxiety disorders are also introverts -- though not the reverse. Yes, helios969 , you have no idea what you're talking about. One is a destructive personality disorder that often ends in jail time, the other is not. Also, I'm tired of the introversion=social anxiety equation. I know shy extroverts and pretty gregarious outgoing introverts. Introversion/extroversion is about whether or not people give you enegry or drain you. Most people are somewhere in the middle. That is all. You're born leaning one way or the other. Introversion is not a disorder, a condition to be treated. Anxiety is a disorder that CAN be treated.
Sorry, stuff like that pisses me off.
I guess you should have read my followup to all that...but I guess you were too busy being triggered.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 13, 2019 10:09:54 GMT
I would really like to ask BioWare a question in return. Why and when have you become so hostile towards solo players? Well, it could be EA or whatever, but I will just say this: A Solo player pays 60 dollars for your SP game that you make every 2-5 years and maybe 60 more for DLCs. A MP player gives you 60 dollars for a game you can clone almost every year and there is a high chance the same player will pay 5-30 dollars each week for more packs, cosmetics, emotes, etc. What's there to love about the Solo player? Of course the smart move would be to create a great SP and MP experience...something Bioware has been chasing for awhile with mixed results. I think it's totally doable but requires a strong vision from the beginning and firm commitment to see it through by the powers above.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 13, 2019 10:57:35 GMT
I guess you should have read my followup to all that...but I guess you were too busy being triggered. I did. Didn't really make a difference. In any case, the poll already lumped things together that have nothing to do with one another. So that's not helping.
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Post by sil on Feb 13, 2019 11:16:40 GMT
Well, it could be EA or whatever, but I will just say this: A Solo player pays 60 dollars for your SP game that you make every 2-5 years and maybe 60 more for DLCs. A MP player gives you 60 dollars for a game you can clone almost every year and there is a high chance the same player will pay 5-30 dollars each week for more packs, cosmetics, emotes, etc. What's there to love about the Solo player? Of course the smart move would be to create a great SP and MP experience...something Bioware has been chasing for awhile with mixed results. I think it's totally doable but requires a strong vision from the beginning and firm commitment to see it through by the powers above. ME3 probably handled it the best, as long as we overlook the EMS issue. The core game was great, and the MP was enjoyable. I just wish they had kept development going on MP to add races like the Elcor, etc, and to add some of the new abilities, enemies, weapons and maps to SP. That's one of the big issues I have with it, I guess. New content like weapons get added to MP but doesn't get added to SP. We saw this with ME:A adding weapons like the Kishock Harpoon Launcher, which could've easily been added to SP as a research or lootable item.
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Post by Shinobu on Feb 13, 2019 13:41:03 GMT
Story DLC will be free and you can play all story content solo, so not sure where you want to go here. I tried playing the freeplay solo and it was bloody hard to do. It's not solo-friendly at all. It gets easier with practice and better gear. I found standing on really tall things and sniping with a marksman rifle made many fights less difficult. That tank robot is a killer, though.
ME3MP is a good practice ground for getting used to constantly moving, using soft cover, etc.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2019 14:44:19 GMT
Introverts might incline (or tend to) being asocial, which is not bad behavior per se, but it is different than antisocial... I suppose so, though I am not very familiar with the term asocial. I guess, it's social with the prefix ἀ- / ἀν-, which denotes absence or negation, like in amoral, asexual, or atheist. In very literal sense, it sounds quite extreme, but I am sure it has some particular definition(s) and meaning in psychology, which is not exactly deductible from the word alone. I don't know, as I have not encountered it as a part of any theoretical framework, or seen it in clinical usage. I cannot really say much about it, or how it relates to an introversion or anything else. I take your word for it. Ofc, all these terms and their relation to each other is anything but unambiguous.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 13, 2019 14:48:08 GMT
Introversion are quite good developers, imo. I really enjoyed the ride with them on Prison Architect early access. They frequently posted a vid about progress that was not only informative but entertaining as well.
So far I think I played every game of them.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 13, 2019 14:48:16 GMT
I tried playing the freeplay solo and it was bloody hard to do. It's not solo-friendly at all. It gets easier with practice and better gear. I found standing on really tall things and sniping with a marksman rifle made many fights less difficult. That tank robot is a killer, though.
ME3MP is a good practice ground for getting used to constantly moving, using soft cover, etc.
The first time me and my buddy encountered the robot we were slaughtered...
We grew wiser pretty rapidly, though
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N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: SylvaeDragon
Posts: 118 Likes: 171
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Nov 20, 2019 12:43:39 GMT
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Sylvae
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Jan 30, 2019 10:39:35 GMT
January 2019
sylvae
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
SylvaeDragon
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Post by Sylvae on Feb 13, 2019 15:13:07 GMT
Introverts might incline (or tend to) being asocial, which is not bad behavior per se, but it is different than antisocial... I suppose so, though I am not very familiar with the term asocial. I guess, it's social with the prefix ἀ- / ἀν-, which denotes absence or negation, like in amoral, asexual, or atheist. In very literal sense, it sounds quite extreme, but I am sure it has some particular definition(s) and meaning in psychology, which is not exactly deductible from the word alone. I don't know, as I have not encountered it as a part of any theoretical framework, or seen it in clinical usage. I cannot really say much about it, or how it relates to an introversion or anything else. I take your word for it. Ofc, all these terms and their relation to each other is anything but unambiguous. "Asociality refers to the lack of motivation to engage in social interaction, or a preference for solitary activities. Developmental psychologists use the synonyms nonsocial, unsocial, and social uninterest. Asociality is distinct from but not mutually exclusive to anti-social behaviour, in which the latter implies an active misanthropy or antagonism toward other people or the general social order. A degree of asociality is routinely observed in introverts, while extreme asociality is observed in people with a variety of clinical conditions." (Wikipedia)
Introversion are quite good developers, imo. I really enjoyed the ride with them on Prison Architect early access. They frequently posted a vid about progress that was not only informative but entertaining as well. So far I think I played every game of them. Agreed, and my experience too.
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