Hrungr
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 6, 2019 19:05:09 GMT
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 6, 2019 19:10:24 GMT
New stronghold? Well that's quick. Then again we don't know how long Act 1 lasts, so I guess it still could take quite a while for that to appear and still make it into Act 1.
"Expanded progression system"... I wonder what that means...
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Hrungr
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ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
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Prime Posts: 18,258
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Posts: 29,425 Likes: 103,898
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More coffee...? More coffee.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 6, 2019 19:12:05 GMT
New stronghold? Well that's quick. Then again we don't know how long Act 1 lasts, so I guess it still could take quite a while for that to appear and still make it into Act 1. "Expanded progression system"... I wonder what that means... Probably implementing their Post-30th level progression at that time.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 6, 2019 19:16:00 GMT
New stronghold? Well that's quick. Then again we don't know how long Act 1 lasts, so I guess it still could take quite a while for that to appear and still make it into Act 1. "Expanded progression system"... I wonder what that means... Probably implementing their Post-30th level progression at that time. Considering that they also removed the pilot skill tree, that's something else that could be added. I wonder if new loot would also fall into progression systems, or would they simply name it as such in the roadmap?
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 6, 2019 19:16:08 GMT
Suck it, naysayers Wooo! Bioware!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2019 19:18:59 GMT
Suck it, naysayers Wooo! Bioware! Who's naysaying what exactly?
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 6, 2019 19:21:14 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 6, 2019 19:34:47 GMT
I don't blame people if they want to hold off and purchase the game down the road. While I won't make a judgement call on whether the game will still be fun a month from now, I still stick to the fact that the game needed more time (even though 6 years of dev time probably should've been enough honestly). At least they got a plan for the future. Question now is the details regarding post launch content.
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Post by theduke on Feb 6, 2019 19:35:42 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Crazy how these large developers keep releasing unfinished content. It's no wonder that people are getting tired of gaming in general. When developers tell players not to worry the game will be better 'later', you know gaming is in a good state.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 6, 2019 19:40:15 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 6, 2019 19:45:52 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later. I wouldn't say it's QoL of life changes that are a bad thing. Sometimes the implementation of something in game ends up becoming tedious over time, and so the process needs to be streamlined for less player frustration. What you're referring to are essential multiplayer features, and that is something that shouldn't be something added post launch (like text chat and clan systems). I get prioritization is a thing, but some things are inexcusable to not have if you plan on having an online-only game. For as much as I think BioWare needs to focus on having this stuff sorted out from the get-go, it also makes me wonder if the quarterly earnings call systems - that a lot of publishers abide by - is detrimental to gaming. Bi-annual calls would free the games launch window up so that it could have more time to add essential features.
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aznricepuff
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 6, 2019 20:22:35 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Crazy how these large developers keep releasing unfinished content. It's no wonder that people are getting tired of gaming in general. When developers tell players not to worry the game will be better 'later', you know gaming is in a good state. Specifically talking about new content here (and not things like bug fixes, etc.): clearly Bioware did not have enough time to create that content before Feb 22, so the choice here is basically release on the 22nd and add in the extra stuff via live service or delay the game to some unspecific future date to include all content at launch. Is option number 2 always better? For those that buy the game, all of the extra content will eventually be available for no extra cost under either option. Under option 1, you get to play the completed content earlier and depending on how fast you can get through it, you may not even get to the extra stuff until it gets released later anyway. Option 2 gives you a more "complete" game at launch, but other than completion for the sake of completion, there is no tangible benefit. You don't get to play the content any earlier. You don't end up paying less for the content. It's like the Telltale Games (RIP) model. They essentially sold you unfinished portions of a game at regular intervals; only when all the episodes of a season were released could you actually finish the game (and since we're talking about story-driven narrative games here, completeness and finishing the game actually matter a great deal). Should we have accused Telltale of selling unfinished games and forced them to only release their episodes all at once, Netflix style? (Obviously, the above doesn't apply to stuff like missing core features and bug fixes. That would make it basically selling you early access.)
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Post by theduke on Feb 6, 2019 21:34:01 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Crazy how these large developers keep releasing unfinished content. It's no wonder that people are getting tired of gaming in general. When developers tell players not to worry the game will be better 'later', you know gaming is in a good state. Specifically talking about new content here (and not things like bug fixes, etc.): clearly Bioware did not have enough time to create that content before Feb 22, so the choice here is basically release on the 22nd and add in the extra stuff via live service or delay the game to some unspecific future date to include all content at launch. Is option number 2 always better? For those that buy the game, all of the extra content will eventually be available for no extra cost under either option. Under option 1, you get to play the completed content earlier and depending on how fast you can get through it, you may not even get to the extra stuff until it gets released later anyway. Option 2 gives you a more "complete" game at launch, but other than completion for the sake of completion, there is no tangible benefit. You don't get to play the content any earlier. You don't end up paying less for the content. It's like the Telltale Games (RIP) model. They essentially sold you unfinished portions of a game at regular intervals; only when all the episodes of a season were released could you actually finish the game (and since we're talking about story-driven narrative games here, completeness and finishing the game actually matter a great deal). Should we have accused Telltale of selling unfinished games and forced them to only release their episodes all at once, Netflix style? (Obviously, the above doesn't apply to stuff like missing core features and bug fixes. That would make it basically selling you early access.) Honestly I couldn't stand that Telltale model, to me I rather have games be released with all their content. Maybe I am getting cranky in my age, but I miss the old days of having games released as full products.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 6, 2019 21:46:37 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Crazy how these large developers keep releasing unfinished content. It's no wonder that people are getting tired of gaming in general. When developers tell players not to worry the game will be better 'later', you know gaming is in a good state. Specifically talking about new content here (and not things like bug fixes, etc.): clearly Bioware did not have enough time to create that content before Feb 22, so the choice here is basically release on the 22nd and add in the extra stuff via live service or delay the game to some unspecific future date to include all content at launch. Is option number 2 always better? Its not that simple. Let’s focus on Strongholds in particular. Launching the game with only 3 Strongholds is very questionable to me. Even the most optimistic assumption about how content types were prioritized for launch would still make me think only releasing 3 was a mistake. What could be more important than end game content that will last at least as long as the time to the first update? Why is, for example, shoehorning a social hub into launch more important than a fourth Stronghold? And now to hear a fourth is slated for the first update? And only +1? It calls into question whether BIoware really understands how to prioritize for end game grind. The first update does seem to follow very soon after launch, so maybe we only have to wait a week or two for the new Stronghold. On the other hand, I expect hardcore grinders to have burned out on the first 3 by that time anyway, and the fourth won’t hold them for much after. If more than a month goes by until the fifth is added, that’s going to confirm for me that they don’t understand the rate that grinders will plow through the end game. All of the above applies to weapon and gear variety as well, which is looking a bit shallow for launch. I’m not taking about build variation here, but sheer play value in variety. Like, what’s the answer to the Devastator? There should be more than one answer. P.S. Telltale is a really bad example, since the postmortem on the company (google super bunny hops vid on the topic) revealed that the whole thing was essentially a pyramid scheme. Dontnod for Life Is Strange is a better example.
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 6, 2019 22:38:47 GMT
Why is, for example, shoehorning a social hub into launch more important than a fourth Stronghold? I don't think it's more important, and I don't think Bioware necessarily thinks that either (though some people might). I do think adding a social hub was a lot easier and takes less time/resources than building a whole stronghold, which is why they were able to do it so fast. The first update does seem to follow very soon after launch, so maybe we only have to wait a week or two for the new Stronghold. On the other hand, I expect hardcore grinders to have burned out on the first 3 by that time anyway, and the fourth won’t hold them for much after. If more than a month goes by until the fifth is added, that’s going to confirm for me that they don’t understand the rate that grinders will plow through the end game. You seriously underestimate certain people's tolerance for grinding the same content over and over again. Dozens or even hundreds of cycles is nothing to hardcore players. I played Guild Wars 2 when it first came out and there was exactly one dungeon. People might have grumbled about it now and then, but that definitely did not stop them (or me) from grinding the same ONE dungeon for months to get their tokens. I think Bioware should make story missions replayable on the Grandmaster difficulties. It would add another option for end game grind, and should be relatively resource-inexpensive for them to do since the assets are already there. It would just need some balance passes. P.S. Telltale is a really bad example, since the postmortem on the company (google super bunny hops vid on the topic) revealed that the whole thing was essentially a pyramid scheme. Dontnod for Life Is Strange is a better example. Yeah, I chose Telltale because they're probably the most well-known studio to make those kinds of games. What was going on behind the scenes is irrelevant to my point.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 7, 2019 0:08:30 GMT
Specifically talking about new content here (and not things like bug fixes, etc.): clearly Bioware did not have enough time to create that content before Feb 22, so the choice here is basically release on the 22nd and add in the extra stuff via live service or delay the game to some unspecific future date to include all content at launch. Is option number 2 always better? For those that buy the game, all of the extra content will eventually be available for no extra cost under either option. Under option 1, you get to play the completed content earlier and depending on how fast you can get through it, you may not even get to the extra stuff until it gets released later anyway. Option 2 gives you a more "complete" game at launch, but other than completion for the sake of completion, there is no tangible benefit. You don't get to play the content any earlier. You don't end up paying less for the content. It's like the Telltale Games (RIP) model. They essentially sold you unfinished portions of a game at regular intervals; only when all the episodes of a season were released could you actually finish the game (and since we're talking about story-driven narrative games here, completeness and finishing the game actually matter a great deal). Should we have accused Telltale of selling unfinished games and forced them to only release their episodes all at once, Netflix style? (Obviously, the above doesn't apply to stuff like missing core features and bug fixes. That would make it basically selling you early access.) Honestly I couldn't stand that Telltale model, to me I rather have games be released with all their content. Maybe I am getting cranky in my age, but I miss the old days of having games released as full products. Considering how unpolished many were back then I am somewhat more favorable to the constant updates. It adds improvements more than removes them at this rate.
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Post by hawkspian on Feb 7, 2019 0:20:27 GMT
Smdh I'm not even going to bother.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 7, 2019 0:29:52 GMT
You seriously underestimate certain people's tolerance for grinding the same content over and over again. Dozens or even hundreds of cycles is nothing to hardcore players. I played Guild Wars 2 when it first came out and there was exactly one dungeon. People might have grumbled about it now and then, but that definitely did not stop them (or me) from grinding the same ONE dungeon for months to get their tokens. The hell are you talking about? I played GW2 every day for the first year. It launched with 8 dungeons. Shit lemme see if I can remember them off the top of my head, no googling I promise: Ascalonian Catacombs, Caudecus's Manor, Twilight Arbor, Sorrow's Embrace, Citadel of Flame, Crucible of Eternity, Arah....fuck I lost the 7th. The icy one.
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Post by theduke on Feb 7, 2019 0:49:34 GMT
Honestly I couldn't stand that Telltale model, to me I rather have games be released with all their content. Maybe I am getting cranky in my age, but I miss the old days of having games released as full products. Considering how unpolished many were back then I am somewhat more favorable to the constant updates. It adds improvements more than removes them at this rate. I would say its more favorable having the game be complete on launch. These live service games are hurting gaming more than helping.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 7, 2019 1:51:12 GMT
Smdh I'm not even going to bother. Something wrong?
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 7, 2019 1:52:58 GMT
I do think it was odd that they won't have Guilds at launch. That seems kind of a staple for these types of games. However I guess having them within the first month is better than never. That really should have been a launch feature.
I think the other things sound really good for the "live service" aspect of the game! The "Expanded Progression System" I'm very curious about, and question what that could be and if it's wise to add something like that post-launch. I'm sure they will try to make it seamless, but what will that mean for people who have already reached max level vs those who are still actually progressing?
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Post by isaidlunch on Feb 7, 2019 2:37:09 GMT
"Cortex entry locked" lol okay
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Feb 7, 2019 3:10:14 GMT
I am curious about Act 3.
My impression is the picture seems to be related to the time when humans lead a uprising against the race that dominated them (forgot their name) according to a cortex entry on the demo.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 7, 2019 4:35:12 GMT
I am curious about Act 3. My impression is the picture seems to be related to the time when humans lead a uprising against the race that dominated them (forgot their name) according to a cortex entry on the demo. Probably related to Helena Tarsis, which means we'll likely be going into the roots of the early Early Freelancers. That image for that Act was used in the Legion of Dawn trailer.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 9:46:11 GMT
That seems like a substantial amount of fixes and improvement that really ought to be in the game when it launches rather than a month later. That sort of thing is motivating me more to say fuck it and pick up the game later in the year when its on sale. Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later. And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76.
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