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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 7, 2019 11:13:02 GMT
I am not suprised that all the interesting stuff isn't in the game yet. No idea what they were doing with 5-7 years of development but oh well.
Question though because I'm slightly confused: The main story is done, right? You can finish the narrative upon release and the stuff coming in March is extra events and such, correct?
If the game becomes interesting in six months I may purchase for a discount. Preordering Anthem at this point is stupid. But at least they are being more transparent now about the lack of content.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 11:22:25 GMT
I am not suprised that all the interesting stuff isn't in the game yet. No idea what they were doing with 5-7 years of development but oh well. Question though because I'm slightly confused: The main story is done, right? You can finish the narrative upon release and the stuff coming in March is extra events and such, correct? If the game becomes interesting in six months I may purchase for a discount. Preordering Anthem at this point is stupid. But at least they are being more transparent now about the lack of content. There is a main, initial campaign and you can finish it. The mistake you're making is thinking that what's at launch is most of what there is for 'main story' or overall story in the game. People don't seem used to the idea that, unlike Mass Effect or Dragon Age, the story won't come in a serialized format as we know it, but will be further expanded within one game (ideally). I mean... that's what they've been doing over 5-7 years of development... if you actually paid attention to what they were saying . This is not a game like Dragon Age where further 2-3 chapters are roughly planned ahead and we spend 2 to 5 or more years waiting for another chapter... For Anthem, all of the story and features will be coming over years to one game in shorter, regular intervals, if things go according to plan.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Feb 7, 2019 11:28:53 GMT
People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. You really need to get over the idea that you have a more valid opinion on this subject than I, or anyone else, does. I don't have to get over anything, and a product that is being launched should actually be finished. If a new boat, or a new rocket, was launched in an unfinished state... Would you be first in line to buy a ticket for the maiden voyage? So long screwy, see ya in St Louis
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 7, 2019 11:32:32 GMT
"lack of content"
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Post by Kappa Neko on Feb 7, 2019 11:34:52 GMT
There is a main, initial campaign and you can finish it. The mistake you're making is thinking that what's at launch is most of what there is for 'main story' or overall story in the game. People don't seem used to the idea that, unlike Mass Effect or Dragon Age, the story won't come in a serialized format as we know it, but will be further expanded within one game (ideally). I mean... that's what they've been doing over 5-7 years of development... if you actually paid attention to what they were saying . This is not a game like Dragon Age where further 2-3 chapters are roughly planned ahead and we spend 2 to 5 or more years waiting for another chapter... For Anthem, all of the story and features will be coming over years to one game in shorter, regular intervals, if things go according to plan. Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that new content was going to be developed after release depending on how much money they make with MTX. If they've got new content developed and lined up already for a staggered release, this is fine actually for the most part. The low number of strongholds is going to be a problem but the rest I can content with.
I'm not a fan of drip releases and usually wait for an all DLC package/GOTY version. So I personally see no appeal to buying now but I understand that things are different in games that publishers/developers want you to keep playing for months and years.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 7, 2019 11:52:27 GMT
Specifically talking about new content here (and not things like bug fixes, etc.): clearly Bioware did not have enough time to create that content before Feb 22, so the choice here is basically release on the 22nd and add in the extra stuff via live service or delay the game to some unspecific future date to include all content at launch. Is option number 2 always better? Its not that simple. Let’s focus on Strongholds in particular. Launching the game with only 3 Strongholds is very questionable to me. Even the most optimistic assumption about how content types were prioritized for launch would still make me think only releasing 3 was a mistake. What could be more important than end game content that will last at least as long as the time to the first update? Why is, for example, shoehorning a social hub into launch more important than a fourth Stronghold? And now to hear a fourth is slated for the first update? And only +1? It calls into question whether BIoware really understands how to prioritize for end game grind. The first update does seem to follow very soon after launch, so maybe we only have to wait a week or two for the new Stronghold. On the other hand, I expect hardcore grinders to have burned out on the first 3 by that time anyway, and the fourth won’t hold them for much after. If more than a month goes by until the fifth is added, that’s going to confirm for me that they don’t understand the rate that grinders will plow through the end game. All of the above applies to weapon and gear variety as well, which is looking a bit shallow for launch. I’m not taking about build variation here, but sheer play value in variety. Like, what’s the answer to the Devastator? There should be more than one answer. P.S. Telltale is a really bad example, since the postmortem on the company (google super bunny hops vid on the topic) revealed that the whole thing was essentially a pyramid scheme. Dontnod for Life Is Strange is a better example. I shall simply say. You greatly underestimate the tolerance and patience of grinders. I played WoW for 5 years. I ran many Raids during those years. No matter how tired of a certain Raid I got. You bet your ass I kept running it because I needed that ONE damn item that had a 5% drop rate that 3 other Guild members needed. I literally cannot tell you how many times I ran the Naxxramus Raid in those 5 years. Easily over 100. Karazhan? again at least 70. My buddy was even worse than me, because he was like the #2 Tank for his Guild. Serious hardcore grinders, run something as many times as it takes, no matter how much they bitch about having to run the same Dungeon over and over again...they still run it.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 11:58:34 GMT
People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. You really need to get over the idea that you have a more valid opinion on this subject than I, or anyone else, does. I don't have to get over anything, and a product that is being launched should actually be finished. If a new boat, or a new rocket, was launched in an unfinished state... Would you be first in line to buy a ticket for the maiden voyage? LOL, sure, yeah - I'll buy a ticket if the boat is in a state that it can confidently swim and provide fun during its maiden voyage. I'll probably buy tickets multiple times if it turned out that the boat is constantly improving and providing even more fun with each subsequent cruise. Anthem has yet to prove to me that its first voyage is going to be rocky or boring, but if you prefer to hop aboard when they open the 4th dance floor and serve Bloody Marys next to the pool aside from Margaritas, that's your prerogative. Unlike previous games, Anthem is not banking on your patronage right after it leaves the port for the first time.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 12:18:25 GMT
There is a main, initial campaign and you can finish it. The mistake you're making is thinking that what's at launch is most of what there is for 'main story' or overall story in the game. People don't seem used to the idea that, unlike Mass Effect or Dragon Age, the story won't come in a serialized format as we know it, but will be further expanded within one game (ideally). I mean... that's what they've been doing over 5-7 years of development... if you actually paid attention to what they were saying . This is not a game like Dragon Age where further 2-3 chapters are roughly planned ahead and we spend 2 to 5 or more years waiting for another chapter... For Anthem, all of the story and features will be coming over years to one game in shorter, regular intervals, if things go according to plan. Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression that new content was going to be developed after release depending on how much money they make with MTX. If they've got new content developed and lined up already for a staggered release, this is fine actually for the most part. The low number of strongholds is going to be a problem but the rest I can content with.
I'm not a fan of drip releases and usually wait for an all DLC package/GOTY version. So I personally see no appeal to buying now but I understand that things are different in games that publishers/developers want you to keep playing for months and years.
The idea with content for Anthem, as far as I understand it, is that they have a tighter direction for their live-services, but also enough room and resources to be flexible. In that way the game is indeed similar to an MMO - they likely have a large enough post-launch crew that if the community will strongly demand this or that feature, QOL or content over others then they can prioritize it or add it to whatever big content update they have prepared over months. Naturally, that doesn't mean that they're just going to react to every whim of the player-base or do so immediately, but Bioware appears very determined to underline that this is supposed to be a long-lived title that will just get better and more complex over time by design. And hey - I completely get it. Seeing how games can grow and change over time is one of the things that draws me to gaming (aside from just playing them, lol), but I don't expect for people to feel the same way I do. If you don't feel that newborn Anthem is enough for you then you can always give it a try later. It is, after all, a game that (while both BW and EA are certainly counting on nice profits from selling enough games now) is not really built on the idea that it has to sell itself immediately to everybody.
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Conquer Your Dreams
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Post by Conquer Your Dreams on Feb 7, 2019 12:25:07 GMT
Anything regarding main story ?
Not really interested in "epic storm".
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 7, 2019 12:47:34 GMT
Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later. And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. QOL changes are patched into most any game regardless of whether it's a live service. To see it on a live service roadmap is odd, especially before launch and given the statements made about the demo. The rest of this is some attempt at a semantic argument that I don't care about, but note that "better than fallout 76" and "unacceptable" are not mutually exclusive.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 13:03:14 GMT
And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. QOL changes are patched into most any game regardless of whether it's a live service. To see it on a live service roadmap is odd, especially before launch and given the statements made about the demo. The rest of this is some attempt at a semantic argument that I don't care about, but note that "better than fallout 76" and "unacceptable" are not mutually exclusive. And all those patches were live services. That's just what they were - ALL support for game post-release is a live service. The difference between now and then was that - aside from being given a fancy name - before this was mostly about bug-fixes and small improvements the devs could add if they've had the opportunity or resources to work on them post-release, while now they are becoming a vital part of game's lifespan, with their heft and frequency growing the more 'updateable' the game is designed to be. This is not a 'semantic argument' - this has been slowly becoming the reality for games for years now. Also - do you want to know what big improvement ESO (one of the most popular MMOs now) is touting for a patch that comes together with June's big expansion? Improvements for Guild Store search. Yep. And given how skeletal search options were for 5 years (I'm on PC, so I can alleviate that with addons, but boy do I feel for console folks...) since release, most people are actually quite excited about them, haha.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 7, 2019 13:09:44 GMT
QOL changes are patched into most any game regardless of whether it's a live service. To see it on a live service roadmap is odd, especially before launch and given the statements made about the demo. The rest of this is some attempt at a semantic argument that I don't care about, but note that "better than fallout 76" and "unacceptable" are not mutually exclusive. And all those patches were live services. That's just what they were - ALL support for game post-release is a live service. The difference between now and then was that - aside from being given a fancy name - before this was mostly about bug-fixes and small improvements the devs could add if they've had the opportunity or resources to work on them post-release, while now they are becoming a vital part of game's lifespan, with their heft and frequency growing the more 'updateable' the game is designed to be. This is not a 'semantic argument' - this has been slowly becoming the reality for games for years now. Also - do you want to know what big improvement ESO (one of the most popular MMOs now) is touting for a patch that comes together with June's big expansion? Improvements for Guild Store search. Yep. And given how skeletal search options were for 5 years (I'm on PC, so I can alleviate that with addons, but boy do I feel for console folks...) since release, most people are actually quite excited about them, haha. This is just about the best example of a semantic argument I've seen. The point of my original post was to suggest that when things like QOL changes show up on pre-launch advertising, especially given the state of the demo, it suggests an issue with the launch state. I don't agree with how you're characterizing what's a "live service" feature and what's not, but if you want to think about it that way, sure, go for it.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 13:22:28 GMT
Its not that simple. Let’s focus on Strongholds in particular. Launching the game with only 3 Strongholds is very questionable to me. Even the most optimistic assumption about how content types were prioritized for launch would still make me think only releasing 3 was a mistake. What could be more important than end game content that will last at least as long as the time to the first update? Why is, for example, shoehorning a social hub into launch more important than a fourth Stronghold? And now to hear a fourth is slated for the first update? And only +1? It calls into question whether BIoware really understands how to prioritize for end game grind. The first update does seem to follow very soon after launch, so maybe we only have to wait a week or two for the new Stronghold. On the other hand, I expect hardcore grinders to have burned out on the first 3 by that time anyway, and the fourth won’t hold them for much after. If more than a month goes by until the fifth is added, that’s going to confirm for me that they don’t understand the rate that grinders will plow through the end game. All of the above applies to weapon and gear variety as well, which is looking a bit shallow for launch. I’m not taking about build variation here, but sheer play value in variety. Like, what’s the answer to the Devastator? There should be more than one answer. P.S. Telltale is a really bad example, since the postmortem on the company (google super bunny hops vid on the topic) revealed that the whole thing was essentially a pyramid scheme. Dontnod for Life Is Strange is a better example. I shall simply say. You greatly underestimate the tolerance and patience of grinders. I played WoW for 5 years. I ran many Raids during those years. No matter how tired of a certain Raid I got. You bet your ass I kept running it because I needed that ONE damn item that had a 5% drop rate that 3 other Guild members needed. I literally cannot tell you how many times I ran the Naxxramus Raid in those 5 years. Easily over 100. Karazhan? again at least 70. My buddy was even worse than me, because he was like the #2 Tank for his Guild. Serious hardcore grinders, run something as many times as it takes, no matter how much they bitch about having to run the same Dungeon over and over again...they still run it. Yep, yep - been there as well. I still remember months of running through dungeons or trials just to get relevant pieces. The most hilarious(ly infuriating) part was when *everybody* was getting that one piece of gear 3 times in a row while I didn't. I still don't have a certain shield I want from a dungeon I've been running for years... and daggers I want form a certain trial will probably become irrelevant the moment I manage to get them And even if people don't care about gearing that much, progression has an appeal on its own. Finishing a dungeon for the first time by the skin of the teeth and then running it weeks later and noting how easy it is now, or just carrying newbies? Satisfying. Then there are new builds or roles to experiment with - something that is more convenient in Anthem, given that I can just wear and focus on gearing another suit instead of leveling another toon form scratch... Anyway, in my case - I have a week of early access to decide whether I'd be visiting Anthem periodically or make it a game I play regularly and thus it merits a permanent unlock in my library. It really depends on how many itches the game will effectively start scratching because in my case it's either story and lore junkie or a raider/grinder. Or both
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 13:42:23 GMT
And all those patches were live services. That's just what they were - ALL support for game post-release is a live service. The difference between now and then was that - aside from being given a fancy name - before this was mostly about bug-fixes and small improvements the devs could add if they've had the opportunity or resources to work on them post-release, while now they are becoming a vital part of game's lifespan, with their heft and frequency growing the more 'updateable' the game is designed to be. This is not a 'semantic argument' - this has been slowly becoming the reality for games for years now. Also - do you want to know what big improvement ESO (one of the most popular MMOs now) is touting for a patch that comes together with June's big expansion? Improvements for Guild Store search. Yep. And given how skeletal search options were for 5 years (I'm on PC, so I can alleviate that with addons, but boy do I feel for console folks...) since release, most people are actually quite excited about them, haha. This is just about the best example of a semantic argument I've seen. The point of my original post was to suggest that when things like QOL changes show up on pre-launch advertising, especially given the state of the demo, it suggests an issue with the launch state. I don't agree with how you're characterizing what's a "live service" feature and what's not, but if you want to think about it that way, sure, go for it. It isn't a semantic argument, because we're not disagreeing over definitions. Your argument is that Bioware basically underlining that they will continue with QOL post-launch means that game will basically launch unfinished - mine is that we're way past time we should be thinking like that, because times are changing and because Bioware keeps consistently hammering the point that Anthem isn't static and will constantly grow over whatever live service/support period it will have, QOL included, whether it stems from their long-term plans for the game or demands of community. I'm confused why this is even a point of contention. The fact that game developers and publishers increasingly think that QOL improvements are as important as other features (a fairly recent trend that is noticeable among larger gaming market) and shouldn't be just an after-thought that devs fix and implement quietly in a bug patch when the problem is too big to ignore - and that we can expect more from games now in terms of comfort, options or responsiveness to happen over time - should be something gamers should be happy with.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Feb 7, 2019 13:54:58 GMT
I shall simply say. You greatly underestimate the tolerance and patience of grinders. I played WoW for 5 years. I ran many Raids during those years. No matter how tired of a certain Raid I got. You bet your ass I kept running it because I needed that ONE damn item that had a 5% drop rate that 3 other Guild members needed. I literally cannot tell you how many times I ran the Naxxramus Raid in those 5 years. Easily over 100. Karazhan? again at least 70. My buddy was even worse than me, because he was like the #2 Tank for his Guild. Serious hardcore grinders, run something as many times as it takes, no matter how much they bitch about having to run the same Dungeon over and over again...they still run it. Yep, yep - been there as well. I still remember months of running through dungeons or trials just to get relevant pieces. The most hilarious(ly infuriating) part was when *everybody* was getting that one piece of gear 3 times in a row while I didn't. I still don't have a certain shield I want from a dungeon I've been running for years... and daggers I want form a certain trial will probably become irrelevant the moment I manage to get them And even if people don't care about gearing that much, progression has an appeal on its own. Finishing a dungeon for the first time by the skin of the teeth and then running it weeks later and noting how easy it is now, or just carrying newbies? Satisfying. Then there are new builds or roles to experiment with - something that is more convenient in Anthem, given that I can just wear and focus on gearing another suit instead of leveling another toon form scratch... Anyway, in my case - I have a week of early access to decide whether I'd be visiting Anthem periodically or make it a game I play regularly and thus it merits a permanent unlock in my library. It really depends on how many itches the game will effectively start scratching because in my case it's either story and lore junkie or a raider/grinder. Or both Aye, I remember my buddy. He needed the Shield from Gruul's Lair. They ran it every week, twice a week, and every single week he was there, waiting for it. It would just never drop. He went through this cycle for like 2 and a half months. The ONE TIME he does not go on the Gruul's Lair raid because of a RL show he wanted to watch super bad, the Shield finally dropped, and the cherry on top, was that no one in the raid even needed it, so it went to someone elses Alt instead. His soul was utterly crushed. Thankfully for him, he ended up with a better shield from Karazhan a few weeks later. But still....the anguish on his face when he told me...
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 7, 2019 13:56:05 GMT
This is just about the best example of a semantic argument I've seen. The point of my original post was to suggest that when things like QOL changes show up on pre-launch advertising, especially given the state of the demo, it suggests an issue with the launch state. I don't agree with how you're characterizing what's a "live service" feature and what's not, but if you want to think about it that way, sure, go for it. It isn't a semantic argument, because we're not disagreeing over definitions. Your argument is that Bioware basically underlining that they will continue with QOL post-launch means that game will basically launch unfinished - mine is that we're way past time we should be thinking like that, because times are changing and because Bioware keeps consistently hammering the point that Anthem isn't static and will constantly grow over whatever live service/support period it will have, QOL included, whether it stems from their long-term plans for the game or demands of community. I'm confused why this is even a point of contention. The fact that game developers and publishers increasingly think that QOL improvements are as important as other features (a fairly recent trend that is noticeable among larger gaming market) and shouldn't be just an after-thought that devs fix and implement quietly in a bug patch when the problem is too big to ignore - and that we can expect more from games now in terms of comfort, options or responsiveness to happen over time - should be something gamers should be happy with. Change... Change Always brings war.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:01:02 GMT
Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later. And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. The problem with QoL (at least in the way Devs use it now ) generally means that, "We'll fix the bugs later with our on going support"...just to end up never fixing those bugs. This isn't a new trend either. Consumers have basically been integrated into the QC process for over a decade now and it's only getting worse. I generally don't like "live services" because you never truly know what you'll get from them. Devs tend to over hype and under perform with this model habitually. Guild Wars 2 is a prime example of this for me. In the beginning it was a really good game that fell off drastically. Destiny is another good example.
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Post by maximusarael020 on Feb 7, 2019 14:13:41 GMT
People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. You really need to get over the idea that you have a more valid opinion on this subject than I, or anyone else, does. I don't have to get over anything, and a product that is being launched should actually be finished. If a new boat, or a new rocket, was launched in an unfinished state... Would you be first in line to buy a ticket for the maiden voyage? So long screwy, see ya in St Louis I think the point is that this is not the type of game in which the story itself is finished upon release. Think of it as the difference between a TV show and a movie. Anthem is a TV show. Mass Effect is a movie. You don't watch the first episode of Game of Thrones and say "What?! They didn't finish up all the story lines?? Did they release this unfinished??" because you know to expect more story the come along the way as it progresses. Now if I went to go see Gladiator and the end of the movie was right before the big fight with the Caesar, then I'd be understandably bummed. If you want to talk about game comparisons, maybe something like World of Warcraft of Fornite. They release expansions/new chapters that continue the story (I watch a lot of Game Theory episodes, so there is some kind of "story" in Fortnite). Because WoW releases more content as it goes, does that mean the original game was incomplete? Or just that the plan of the game was to release additional content to keep players engaged? What Midnight is getting at ins't that people have some entitled expectation for a finished game upon release. Games that should be finished and polished upon released are games like Red Dead Redemption 2, God of War, Mass Effect Andromeda, Legend of Zelda, etc. These games are something that are a whole complete package upon release because that is the story they want to tell. Anthem is a live service game. That means that the actual goal is to keep players engaged over months and years. God of War doesn't care if you finish it in a week or keep playing for a month. They got the money, they aren't getting any more. There's no incentive to keep people in the game. Anthem needs people to be continuously active in the game for long after launch, so they will continue to add story to it as it goes. No one is saying anyone's expectations are wrong. It's just that this is the type of game that many Bioware fans are maybe no used to, or at least don't expect from Bioware. That doesn't make it bad, just different. It's also not wrong to dislike that kind of game. People with kids, busy work schedules, etc, I totally get the want and need to have a game you can sit down with, play at your own pace, pause when you need to, and finish in a gratifying way. That's totally awesome! No judgement, I get it. But that doesn't mean the other types of games are bad for people who want to play those either. Just different. So it's not that the expectation of a finished game at launch is wrong, it just doesn't fit with the story-telling and game styles of all games. Of course some things, like the lack of Guilds/Scoreboards at launch really should be there, so being a little miffed about that is totally understandable. But in regards to content, there's no real reason all of Anthem's story would need to be in the game at launch. These games are designed to release story over time. If people don't like that, that's fine! There are plenty of amazing one-off complete story games out there that are amazing! Anthem might not be fore them, and that's ok.
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Post by hawkspian on Feb 7, 2019 14:16:18 GMT
And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. The problem with QoL (at least in the way Devs use it now ) generally means that, "We'll fix the bugs later with our on going support"...just to end up never fixing those bugs. This isn't a new trend either. Consumers have basically been integrated into the QC process for over a decade now and it's only getting worse. I generally don't like "live services" because you never truly know what you'll get from them. Devs tend to over hype and under perform with this model habitually. Guild Wars 2 is a prime example of this for me. In the beginning it was a really good game that fell off drastically. Destiny is another good example. Lol no it's not. When bungo do QoL changes its usually buffing or nerfing guns, changing powers and perks, making drops more frequent it less frequent, adding something to a rotation, adding heavy ammo or reducing it. Quality of life is the continued support of a game. Mate, it's 2019. We're discussing an online game that is going to be constantly updated and changed. You want them to release it and then just leave it as is? This thread is so fucking confusing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 14:24:29 GMT
The problem with QoL (at least in the way Devs use it now ) generally means that, "We'll fix the bugs later with our on going support"...just to end up never fixing those bugs. This isn't a new trend either. Consumers have basically been integrated into the QC process for over a decade now and it's only getting worse. I generally don't like "live services" because you never truly know what you'll get from them. Devs tend to over hype and under perform with this model habitually. Guild Wars 2 is a prime example of this for me. In the beginning it was a really good game that fell off drastically. Destiny is another good example. Lol no it's not. When bungo do QoL changes its usually buffing or nerfing guns, changing powers and perks, making drops more frequent it less frequent, adding something to a rotation, adding heavy ammo or reducing it. Quality of life is the continued support of a game. Mate, it's 2019. We're discussing an online game that is going to be constantly updated and changed. You want them to release it and then just leave it as is? This thread is so fucking confusing. I feel you're the only one confused actually because what I was saying has nothing to do with what you stated. I NEVER said a game had to be fully released during any part of my post. Stay in your lane "Mate"... I'm 42 and have been playing online games since 1997. I know and understand QoL...
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 7, 2019 14:28:06 GMT
Yeah, when I see QOL changes on a live service plan it throws up red flags. Live service is meant to be a way to continue to churn out content to keep the game interesting, not an excuse to launch and finish the game later. And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. Actually nah what people need to do is stop excusing games launching as Minimum Viable Products. Or maybe it doesn't matter and everything works out fine in the end. Hey how's that continued Mass Effect Andromeda support going?
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 14:37:54 GMT
And how is creating additional features not 'churning out content to keep the game interesting'? Live service is something to further expand the title for the sake of its longevity and thus profitability - that includes QOL improvements. People really need to get over the idea that games either launch finished or unfinished. I mean... disregarding the fact that virtually ALL games - especially bigger ones - launch with content cut out or not how they were planned (something most devs easily admit), it's been obvious from a few years now that with advancements in Internet speeds and regular patching we're heading towards a time when games can further expand beyond what is offered at launch or in DLCs (ironically, a lot of DLCs feature content that was cut or unfinished before launch...). 'Unfinished' should really be reserved for games which don't even have a solid foundation and are buggy, unplayable messes with no regular, planned roadmaps or content rollouts. And even with demo issues I see some of the even most ardent critics admit that Anthem may have its problems, but it's nowhere near the same ballpark as, say, Fallout 76. Actually nah what people need to do is stop excusing games launching as Minimum Viable Products. Or maybe it doesn't matter and everything works out fine in the end. Hey how's that continued Mass Effect Andromeda support going? Hey, I didn't know MEA was built exactly like Anthem! It's not like it was single-player RPG that had a fairly regular support period and eventual planned DLCs and potential later installments, instead of a very different kind of game which has been underlined by Bioware and EA ever since they announced it. Gee, I guess what Anthem is doing is completely unheard of, considering how confused people are about the format it's using. It's not like we saw or keep seeing many super-successful and profitable titles utilizing it! And just like people shouldn't make excuses, they also shouldn't make unwarranted accusations. I mean, there's no accounting for preferences of what constitutes Minimum Viable Product, but it's not like we didn't have this debate ever since patches and DLCs became mainstream.
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Post by hawkspian on Feb 7, 2019 14:43:28 GMT
Lol no it's not. When bungo do QoL changes its usually buffing or nerfing guns, changing powers and perks, making drops more frequent it less frequent, adding something to a rotation, adding heavy ammo or reducing it. Quality of life is the continued support of a game. Mate, it's 2019. We're discussing an online game that is going to be constantly updated and changed. You want them to release it and then just leave it as is? This thread is so fucking confusing. I feel you're the only one confused actually because what I was saying has nothing to do with what you stated. I NEVER said a game had to be fully released during any part of my post. Stay in your lane "Mate"... I'm 42 and have been playing online games since 1997. I know and understand QoL... Stay in my lane? Back off. I directly quoted you, so you clearly don't understand quality of life do you? It doesn't mean we'll fix bugs later at all. It means we'll keep listening to feedback to a live game and keep updating.
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Post by aznricepuff on Feb 7, 2019 14:48:35 GMT
The hell are you talking about? I played GW2 every day for the first year. It launched with 8 dungeons. Shit lemme see if I can remember them off the top of my head, no googling I promise: Ascalonian Catacombs, Caudecus's Manor, Twilight Arbor, Sorrow's Embrace, Citadel of Flame, Crucible of Eternity, Arah....fuck I lost the 7th. The icy one. Ha! You're right! I totally forgot about those. For some reason all I could remember was running Fractals and farming world events.
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Post by midnight tea on Feb 7, 2019 14:52:05 GMT
I'm 42 and have been playing online games since 1997. I know and understand QoL... Yes, because games are exactly like in 1997. Nothing changed since then, nope.
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