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Post by Iddy on Feb 8, 2019 17:49:09 GMT
The mabari was cured from the Taint with that swamp flower and Merrill cleansed a tainted mirror with blood magic.
By using either of these methods, one may cease to be a Grey Warden and therefore avoid the Calling.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 8, 2019 19:36:46 GMT
The mabari was cured from the Taint with that swamp flower and Merrill cleansed a tainted mirror with blood magic. By using either of these methods, one may cease to be a Grey Warden and therefore avoid the Calling. There is a difference between being a grey warden and being afflicted with the taint. Grey wardens undergo a particular ritual involving blood magic; they don't just take in the taint. Recall that the Hawke sibling contracts the taint in the Deep Roads and (assuming the player makes the choice) undergoes the Joining to become a grey warden. Ruck in DAO was tainted and a ghoul; Ser Wesley died from the taint, as does Felix.
Now, there probably is something to the blood magic, but it's likely not the same as whatever Merrill did. The only known warden to ever have been "cured" is Fiona, and it's heavily implied that it is because of Alistair's conception from Maric's dragon blood infused magic sperm. (Though you have to have read the comics to put that last bit together.)
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Post by Iddy on Feb 8, 2019 19:42:27 GMT
The mabari was cured from the Taint with that swamp flower and Merrill cleansed a tainted mirror with blood magic. By using either of these methods, one may cease to be a Grey Warden and therefore avoid the Calling. There is a difference between being a grey warden and being afflicted with the taint. Grey wardens undergo a particular ritual involving blood magic; they don't just take in the taint. Recall that the Hawke sibling contracts the taint in the Deep Roads and (assuming the player makes the choice) undergoes the Joining to become a grey warden. Ruck in DAO was tainted and a ghoul; Ser Wesley died from the taint, as does Felix.
Now, there probably is something to the blood magic, but it's likely not the same as whatever Merrill did. The only known warden to ever have been "cured" is Fiona, and it's heavily implied that it is because of Alistair's conception from Maric's dragon blood infused magic sperm. (Though you have to have read the comics to put that last bit together.)
What the ritual does is slow down the corruption's progress and grant immunity. It doesn't make the taint more deeply embedded than a regular tainted person is. Ehhh... heavily implied, more like fans saw what they wanted to see. I don't remember anything being said about the sex being special. The book just says it happened and moves on. And then Fiona says she is miraculously cured with no further explanation than that.
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Post by mikoto on Feb 8, 2019 22:23:30 GMT
Sill, I'm surprised the Warden didn't look into the various ways the taint has either been cured or harnessed to extend life instead.
I mean those would have been my starting points really. I'd have interviewed and done tests on Fiona and Alistair, I'd have visited Merril and got her to explain exactly how she used blood magic to cleanse the tainted Eluvian. And I'd certainly have some some research and experimentation on exactly how that white swamp flower was able to be turned into an ointment that cured Mabari of the taint.
Then of course there is Avernus, who somehow used the taint and blood magic to actually extend his life span greatly. I would have absolutely asked him to go through every little detail with me. That's possibly one of the most potent solutions at all. Imagine if the Joining imparted not a shortened lifespan, but one that defied the ages? Imagine what kind of warrior, rogue or mage a Grey Warden could be with centuries of experience.
So yeah with all that in mind I never really liked the whole "sodded off to the far western lands, a place where the Blight has never reached in search of a cure whilst abandoning the world to be assaulted by an angry darkspawn magister" angle anyway. I'm not even sure what inspired the Warden to go west after a cure? I'm guessing it was something in that book Morrigan left for him/her at the end of Witch Hunt.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Feb 8, 2019 23:42:34 GMT
I'd have interviewed and done tests on Fiona and Alistair No one else knows that Alistair is Fiona's son. The player knows because of meta information. That information isn't revealed to the Warden, the Inquisitor, or public knowledge in any way. Fiona is the only living person who knows, and she's not likely to tell. If you have an import where Alistair is not king, you don't even find out that she knew Maric because she has no reason to raise the issue.
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Post by mikoto on Feb 9, 2019 2:56:12 GMT
Good point, but still, interview Fiona.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 9, 2019 3:51:30 GMT
Now, there probably is something to the blood magic, but it's likely not the same as whatever Merrill did. The only known warden to ever have been "cured" is Fiona, and it's heavily implied that it is because of Alistair's conception from Maric's dragon blood infused magic sperm. (Though you have to have read the comics to put that last bit together.) [/div][/quote] I'd thought it was something to do with a magical item Duncan had been using to protect himself from the Architect's Blight Magic, combined with the fact that she'd been actively dying of the Taint at the time? (My understanding is that the latter explains why it worked that way for her, but not for Duncan.) If Maric's demi-reaver properties had anything to do with it, wouldn't the Joining have failed to work on Alistair?
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 9, 2019 7:52:56 GMT
I'd thought it was something to do with a magical item Duncan had been using to protect himself from the Architect's Blight Magic, combined with the fact that she'd been actively dying of the Taint at the time? (My understanding is that the latter explains why it worked that way for her, but not for Duncan.) You are correct: it was the Architect’s amulet that cured Fiona. It was likely an unintended side effect; while the amulet accelerated the corruption while Fiona possessed it, discarding the amulet caused the corruption to be erased. It has been THEORIZED that Fiona’s cure had something to do with Alistair’s dragon blood, but it’s only a theory.
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Post by Psychevore on Feb 9, 2019 9:16:01 GMT
It has been THEORIZED that Fiona’s cure had something to do with Alistair’s dragon blood, but it’s only a theory. Wait wait... what? He a Qunari? Never heard of Alistair's dragon blood. Or forgot about it.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 9, 2019 10:13:12 GMT
It has been THEORIZED that Fiona’s cure had something to do with Alistair’s dragon blood, but it’s only a theory. Wait wait... what? He a Qunari? Never heard of Alistair's dragon blood. Or forgot about it. It's from the comics. The Qunari claim that part of the reason Calenhad was able to conquer Ferelden is that he was a reaver, and that his descendants will still have some of that power as well. And it's almost certainly true, given that the plot of that particular comic revolves around a Tevinter Magister draining Maric of his blood to use that power himself.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 9, 2019 11:53:39 GMT
The mabari was cured from the Taint with that swamp flower and Merrill cleansed a tainted mirror with blood magic. Okay, according to the Core Rule Book the Dalish Keepers have always known a way to concoct a potion that will stave off the effects of the taint for a time but eventually the sickness will return and prove fatal. This is presumably what Marethari uses on the Dalish Warden after their return from finding the eluvian. The Joining was devised by the Grey Wardens through combining the elven ritual with drinking of the darkspawn blood (plus a drop of arch-demon). This helps prolong the period that the sickness can be put into remission but does not actually "cure" the Warden, merely delay the onset of symptoms. Senior Wardens will show symptoms other than the Calling, such as hair loss and discolouration of the skin, although the only Warden to have exhibited these signs in game was Larius in Legacy. In the Last Flight, it is said that living through a Blight accelerates the onset of the Calling and Issaya was showing clear signs of succumbing to the taint after the 4th Blight even though she had only been a Warden for around 10 years. However, Garahel's symptoms were not so pronounced, so it is unclear if it is her use of blood magic that helped speed up the onset in Issaya. So Merrill was likely using the Keeper ritual in some way combined with the knowledge given to her by the demon. In any case this was cleansing an inanimate object (unless eluvian are ultimately shown to be sentient), so probably not the same as trying to cleanse/cure an organic creature or substance. As far as dog is concerned, for all we know the "cure" may only have been some variant on the Keeper ritual and eventually it may have succumbed at some point in the future. Alternatively, it was given early enough to stave off the onset completely. So it acted like an injection for something like rabies that if given soon enough after the initial infection will stop it developing but timing is critical to its success. It should also be mentioned that initially Alexius and Dorian managed to concoct some sort of temporary cure for Felix, since depending on which set of dates you take for the darkspawn attack (given variously as early as 9:35 or as late as 9:38 in WoT2), the onset of the disease was delayed anything from 3-6 years. Even so, Alexius and Dorian seemed well aware that what they had done was not a complete cure but only a delaying tactic. There is a short dialogue from Dorian when you discover some Grey Warden banner that suggests he once visited Weishauppt. Reading between the lines I would say that Alexius sent him there in search of a possible cure and the Wardens gave him notes on the Keeper ritual which Alexius then adapted and used on Felix to delay the onset of the taint. From what we are told in game, it would seem that Alexius repeatedly doses Felix in order to maintain the effects but ultimately it fails. We are also told that dragons do seem to have a natural resistance to the taint but ultimately even they will succumb if given sufficient time or magical intervention, as evidenced by Corypheus' dragon. It would seem odd if Fiona's cure had anything to do with dragon blood, bearing in mind that Qunari/Kossith are heavily hinted to have been the result of infusing dragon blood into either humans or elves and yet Ogres are the result of Kossith brood-mothers. So, if the Warden had done their homework, they would know there was a means to delay the onset of symptoms in ordinary people affected with the taint but even there it was not a permanent cure. With Wardens the Keeper ritual would no longer work because of the addition of darkspawn/arch-demon blood into the mix. So ultimately they will start hearing the Calling regardless of any other action taken. This was presumably behind their desire to try and find a permanent cure, though why this should be found in the far west was never revealed and ultimately we never even discover if they were successful or not, only that a Warden in a romance with Leliana does return from their quest unharmed. Personally I wouldn't hold too much store by what can be found in novels. In the case of Fiona being cured, it was down to the side-effects of some magic device that belonged to the Architect. Duncan was actually protected from the device by another item. Ultimately I'd say that these artificial plot devices are not a sound basis on which to speculate. They are one off, not to be repeated events.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 11, 2019 7:46:48 GMT
Personally I wouldn't hold too much store by what can be found in novels. In the case of Fiona being cured, it was down to the side-effects of some magic device that belonged to the Architect. Duncan was actually protected from the device by another item. Ultimately I'd say that these artificial plot devices are not a sound basis on which to speculate. They are one off, not to be repeated events. Are we told what became of those devices?
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Post by Blaze on Feb 14, 2019 9:39:31 GMT
Wait wait... what? He a Qunari? Never heard of Alistair's dragon blood. Or forgot about it. It's from the comics. The Qunari claim that part of the reason Calenhad was able to conquer Ferelden is that he was a reaver, and that his descendants will still have some of that power as well. And it's almost certainly true, given that the plot of that particular comic revolves around a Tevinter Magister draining Maric of his blood to use that power himself. he wasn't just a reaver, he used the blood of a great dragon, they are rare and kinda extinct (sort of). so it's not just dragon blood in alistair bloodline but a great dragon blood. also the question if he is qunari was not misplaced, as it is possible that qunari have dragon blood as well, though i don't think it's from drinking, they might had some special breeding programs way back when. though it's a theory at the moment.
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Post by Iddy on Feb 14, 2019 10:16:46 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Feb 14, 2019 10:33:03 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens? Hm. They could be: a decade is supposed to be the low end of early enough according to Word Of Gaider, and it has been about fifteen years since the Warden's Joining by the time Trespasser ends. But we know they didn't go right into the Deep Roads after their quest, and we don't know whether or not they succeeded. And if the lead did dry up, and they were hearing the Calling, they should have gone right into the Deep Roads, right? Instead, a Warden who romanced Leiliana goes back to her, which would be really irresponsible if the Warden was actively losing out to the Taint.
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Post by Blaze on Feb 14, 2019 10:39:57 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens? they were unlikely hearing the calling by that point. after witch hunt morrigan left clues with the book she stole from the dalish along with another book (likely flemeth's real grimoire) that started the warden with their search for the cure. morrigan confirms that the information that she found is what got the warden to start the search.
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Post by Blaze on Feb 14, 2019 10:42:04 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens? Hm. They could be: a decade is supposed to be the low end of early enough according to Word Of Gaider, and it has been about fifteen years since the Warden's Joining by the time Trespasser ends. But we know they didn't go right into the Deep Roads after their quest, and we don't know whether or not they succeeded. And if the lead did dry up, and they were hearing the Calling, they should have gone right into the Deep Roads, right? Instead, a Warden who romanced Leiliana goes back to her, which would be really irresponsible if the Warden was actively losing out to the Taint. while a decade is possible, it can take up to 30 years before you start hearing the calling, in the letter, if the warden was hearing the calling during inquisition than they sure didn't tell anyone. so it's unlikely.
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Post by Sokemis on Feb 14, 2019 23:34:24 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens? My assumption has been that the Warden was already starting to gather more information on the joining/taint/calling well before Inquisition started (I can't see any of my wardens just sitting around and waiting for their Calling to happen without a fight). I wonder if they heard Coryfish's False Calling and that (not knowing yet that it was false) kicked their search into top priority. (off topic question - but what were Ferelden's wardens, the ones we recruited in Awakening, doing during the time of the false calling?)
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Post by Iddy on Feb 15, 2019 2:14:50 GMT
Did the Warden decide to search for a cure because s/he already was hearing the Calling or was s/he taking action before it happens? My assumption has been that the Warden was already starting to gather more information on the joining/taint/calling well before Inquisition started (I can't see any of my wardens just sitting around and waiting for their Calling to happen without a fight). I wonder if they heard Coryfish's False Calling and that (not knowing yet that it was false) kicked their search into top priority. (off topic question - but what were Ferelden's wardens, the ones we recruited in Awakening, doing during the time of the false calling?) Considering DAI's absolute disregard for Awakening, odds are that they don't exist anymore.
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 15, 2019 18:40:49 GMT
(off topic question - but what were Ferelden's wardens, the ones we recruited in Awakening, doing during the time of the false calling?) As Iddy says, DAI virtually ignored everything that happened in Awakening. The letter from Clarel to Teagan asking for admittance to the kingdom makes no sense at all considering Vigil's Keep is a Warden stronghold authorised by the monarch. Nor does Teagan referring back to Sophie Dryden in Trespasser as though that is the most recent history of the Wardens' involvement in Ferelden's secular affairs. Why is Hawke's Warden contact being hunted by Wardens led by Clarel when it is the jurisdiction of the Warden in charge of Vigil's Keep. In fact why does Leliana need ask to seek out Blackwall to find out what is up with the Ferelden Wardens when once again she could have contacted Vigil's Keep? So it would seem that in DAI there is no stronghold at Vigil's Keep. However, in the novel the Last Flight Vigil's Keep is up and running, still in contact with Warden HQ and apparently blissfully unaware of the problems with the false calling. So in that version of events the problems with the Wardens caused by Corypheus are confined to Orlais. Take your pick which version you prefer. morrigan confirms that the information that she found is what got the warden to start the search. I must have missed this in the conversation we have with her. Or is this something she says in Witch Hunt? (Which I haven't played). Are we told what became of those devices? I haven't read the Calling so I am only going on hearsay. However, I believe the amulet that speeded up the onset of the taint probably eventually ran out of magic, whilst with the other object that protected Duncan, which I believe was a dagger, I have no idea about but I suppose we are meant to assume it was lost either before we met Duncan or at Ostagar. Anyway, this is why I say they were artificial plot devices not meant to have a lasting influence on the world and can thus be consigned to history.
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Post by Blaze on Feb 15, 2019 22:18:05 GMT
[quote timestamp="1536199189" source="/post/1225409/thread" morrigan confirms that the information that she found is what got the warden to start the search. I must have missed this in the conversation we have with her. Or is this something she says in Witch Hunt? (Which I haven't played). you get the information if you romanced morrigan in origins. it's might be possible to get it even if you haven't romanced morrigan, but i'm not 100% sure. basically you need to get the "find the warden" war table operation from morrigan and not leliana (or alistair).
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 16, 2019 8:57:36 GMT
you get the information if you romanced morrigan in origins. it's might be possible to get it even if you haven't romanced morrigan,
I had forgotten the fact that Morrigan was behind the quest if he romanced her. However, so far as I can recall, she makes no mention of giving similar advice to a non-romanced Warden. Still, as shown in your clip, whilst Morrigan would know about Avernus it seems strange that Fiona's history would be so widely known. However, as she points out, both these facts do seem to suggest that a cure might be possible, so even without her prompting I suppose a non-romanced Warden could have worked it out.
Why look for it in the west though? I can accept that Morrigan might have found something in an ancient tome except that it couldn't be that ancient if it was talking about a cure for the Blight/taint that only emerged on the surface around 1300 years ago. Plus everyone in Thedas has a vested interest in defeating the Blight so if the knowledge was available back then, surely people would have been working on finding a cure ever since? So was the clue referring to an earlier era?
A further thought. The reason the soul of the arch-demon is attracted to the foetus is that it carries a small bit of the taint from the Warden father. Yet Kieran seems to show no sign of the taint whether an OGB or not, yet in both instances he was fathered by a Warden. Whilst the OGB Kieran seems to suffer from peculiar dreams, these seem more associated with his status as the vessel of an Old God than the presence of the taint, as a normal Kieran does not seem afflicted. So why is Kieran apparently immune to the taint?
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Post by Iddy on Feb 16, 2019 10:48:52 GMT
you get the information if you romanced morrigan in origins. it's might be possible to get it even if you haven't romanced morrigan,
I had forgotten the fact that Morrigan was behind the quest if he romanced her. However, so far as I can recall, she makes no mention of giving similar advice to a non-romanced Warden. Still, as shown in your clip, whilst Morrigan would know about Avernus it seems strange that Fiona's history would be so widely known. However, as she points out, both these facts do seem to suggest that a cure might be possible, so even without her prompting I suppose a non-romanced Warden could have worked it out.
Why look for it in the west though? I can accept that Morrigan might have found something in an ancient tome except that it couldn't be that ancient if it was talking about a cure for the Blight/taint that only emerged on the surface around 1300 years ago. Plus everyone in Thedas has a vested interest in defeating the Blight so if the knowledge was available back then, surely people would have been working on finding a cure ever since? So was the clue referring to an earlier era?
A further thought. The reason the soul of the arch-demon is attracted to the foetus is that it carries a small bit of the taint from the Warden father. Yet Kieran seems to show no sign of the taint whether an OGB or not, yet in both instances he was fathered by a Warden. Whilst the OGB Kieran seems to suffer from peculiar dreams, these seem more associated with his status as the vessel of an Old God than the presence of the taint, as a normal Kieran does not seem afflicted. So why is Kieran apparently immune to the taint? Maybe normal Kieran isn't tainted at all?
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Feb 16, 2019 11:04:34 GMT
I had forgotten the fact that Morrigan was behind the quest if he romanced her. However, so far as I can recall, she makes no mention of giving similar advice to a non-romanced Warden. Still, as shown in your clip, whilst Morrigan would know about Avernus it seems strange that Fiona's history would be so widely known. However, as she points out, both these facts do seem to suggest that a cure might be possible, so even without her prompting I suppose a non-romanced Warden could have worked it out.
Why look for it in the west though? I can accept that Morrigan might have found something in an ancient tome except that it couldn't be that ancient if it was talking about a cure for the Blight/taint that only emerged on the surface around 1300 years ago. Plus everyone in Thedas has a vested interest in defeating the Blight so if the knowledge was available back then, surely people would have been working on finding a cure ever since? So was the clue referring to an earlier era?
A further thought. The reason the soul of the arch-demon is attracted to the foetus is that it carries a small bit of the taint from the Warden father. Yet Kieran seems to show no sign of the taint whether an OGB or not, yet in both instances he was fathered by a Warden. Whilst the OGB Kieran seems to suffer from peculiar dreams, these seem more associated with his status as the vessel of an Old God than the presence of the taint, as a normal Kieran does not seem afflicted. So why is Kieran apparently immune to the taint? Maybe normal Kieran isn't tainted at all? i think he isn't tainted either way. he either have a piece of an ancient god or he doesn't. regardless, flemeth take that piece if the ritual is done. so by the end of inquisition he likely a regular boy anyway. interesting fact about old tevinter gods and the elven gods. between the evenuris, with mythal murder and the dread wolf rebelion, the amount of trapped elven gods is seven, also there are seven old dragon gods. maybe there's a connection there, maybe there isn't.
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10,775
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Feb 16, 2019 12:33:15 GMT
Maybe normal Kieran isn't tainted at all? Since he can only exist if the Hero of Ferelden sleeps with Morrigan then if the OGB Kieran has the taint then so should he. i think he isn't tainted either way. This is what Morrigan says when explaining the ritual: "The child will bear the taint and when the arch-demon is slain, its essence will seek out the child like a beacon." Bear in mind that you can leave Morrigan by the gates of Denerim and yet the essence of the OGB will still by-pass every other tainted creature on route, including the father of the child and other living wardens in order to get to Morrigan. I assume this has to do with the magic ritual that Flemeth taught her. Now Riordan says the reason the OGB's soul jumps to the Warden who kills it is because of the taint in their blood. That is why they came up with the Joining in the first place, not simply to provide a degree of immunity from the darkspawn sickness but specifically so the arch-demon could be slain. After all, the 1st Blight lasted some 200 years and it might be assumed that during that time people had got close enough to Dumat to strike a killing blow but he just regenerated in the nearest darkspawn. Which is why they had to come up with something to thwart the process. Of course what is never explained in DAI is why when the old god soul jumps to a warden they both die, whereas when Corypheus' soul jumps to a warden it simply possesses them. I've tended to assume it is because he is in control of their mind, so they willingly accept the possession instead of resisting it. Flemeth says that a soul cannot be forced on the unwilling. Anyway, the reason the dark ritual works at all is because the child has the taint through being fathered by a Grey Warden and this would therefore be true of the child conceived in the normal way earlier in the campaign. I'd also assume the dark ritual was actually taught to Flemeth by Mythal because otherwise there is no particular reason why Flemeth should know the ancient magic involved as Morrigan says it pre-dates the era of the Circles and Flemeth wasn't born until after the first of the Circles had been established. The fact that Flemeth was so anxious to save the old god's soul and what she does with it, does suggest some sort of link between the old gods and Mythal.
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