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Post by river82 on Feb 19, 2019 6:31:10 GMT
Not from what I've heard. Morrowind is lauded by true RPG fans for many other reasons though, like the ability to succeed in combat being directly related to the skills of your character and not the skills of the player Well, maybe you should try taking those earplugs out. Or you could show me where you've seen or heard such things said. Now I know that Morrowind is lauded for having a true sense of progression, which you didn't feel with Oblivion's heavy handed level scaling, but I don't hear them specifically laud level-gating. EDIT: Scratch that, there is no level gating in Morrowind I believe. It's been a while so I had trouble remembering. Don't know if ESO had any though. To be honest, people tend to despise that bullshit
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 19, 2019 7:00:03 GMT
Well, maybe you should try taking those earplugs out. Or you could show me where you've seen or heard such things said. Now I know that Morrowind is lauded for having a true sense of progression, which you didn't feel with Oblivion's heavy handed level scaling, but I don't hear them specifically laud level-gating. EDIT: Scratch that, there is no level gating in Morrowind I believe. It's been a while so I had trouble remembering. Don't know if ESO had any though. To be honest, people tend to despise that bullshit Bethesda forums.
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Post by river82 on Feb 19, 2019 7:05:28 GMT
Or you could show me where you've seen or heard such things said. Now I know that Morrowind is lauded for having a true sense of progression, which you didn't feel with Oblivion's heavy handed level scaling, but I don't hear them specifically laud level-gating. EDIT: Scratch that, there is no level gating in Morrowind I believe. It's been a while so I had trouble remembering. Don't know if ESO had any though. To be honest, people tend to despise that bullshit Bethesda forums. You're talking to someone who got banned from the Bethesda forums in the 2006 Obivion "YOU GUYS ARE ALL SELLOUTS" meltdown that went on for about a year and made the devs disappear from the forum, in which there was much comparisons to Morrowind. Level gating was not something I heard people "wanted" xD. Got banned for accusing mods of censorship, which was actually true. When they ban the URL of a certain forum so it's impossible to post certain reviews, that goes beyond the pale. Anyway I also don't believe places are level gated. You can go pretty much anywhere, and while I can't remember if you can go absolutely everywhere or not, I do know (with the help of a couple of bugs but no cheats) Morrowind can be completed in about 4 minutes.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 19, 2019 7:50:59 GMT
You're talking to someone who got banned from the Bethesda forums in the 2006 Obivion "YOU GUYS ARE ALL SELLOUTS" meltdown that went on for about a year and made the devs disappear from the forum, in which there was much comparisons to Morrowind. Level gating was not something I heard people "wanted" xD. Got banned for accusing mods of censorship, which was actually true. When they ban the URL of a certain forum so it's impossible to post certain reviews, that goes beyond the pale. Anyway I also don't believe places are level gated. You can go pretty much anywhere, and while I can't remember if you can go absolutely everywhere or not, I do know (with the help of a couple of bugs but no cheats) Morrowind can be completed in about 4 minutes. Caius Cosades, ring a bell?
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Post by river82 on Feb 19, 2019 7:59:57 GMT
You're talking to someone who got banned from the Bethesda forums in the 2006 Obivion "YOU GUYS ARE ALL SELLOUTS" meltdown that went on for about a year and made the devs disappear from the forum, in which there was much comparisons to Morrowind. Level gating was not something I heard people "wanted" xD. Got banned for accusing mods of censorship, which was actually true. When they ban the URL of a certain forum so it's impossible to post certain reviews, that goes beyond the pale. Anyway I also don't believe places are level gated. You can go pretty much anywhere, and while I can't remember if you can go absolutely everywhere or not, I do know (with the help of a couple of bugs but no cheats) Morrowind can be completed in about 4 minutes. Caius Cosades, ring a bell? Ah, main quest stuff. Thanks Not my favourite part of the game I download a mod in Skyrim to get rid of that stuff so you can just start anywhere without dragons. Much more relaxing
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Post by aglomeracja on Feb 19, 2019 8:48:43 GMT
Which one is it? Started with nothing at 7 hours, or finished at 7 hours? How terrible that people need to actually play the game, and do different things. This isn't even grindy by most online game standards. Either people don't remember, or choose not to...but Witcher 3 did the same exact thing. You HAD to go do side quests due to the level gaps between Main Story quests. you had to XP grind to some extent. So even the game so many people say is the greatest game of all time, does this exact same thing. Nope. In TW3 you get a lot more exp from main quests, especially if you're on lower levels. IIRC, they balanced it in a way that allowed you to ignore side quests completely.
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 19, 2019 10:29:50 GMT
Caius Cosades, ring a bell? Ah, main quest stuff. Thanks Not my favourite part of the game I download a mod in Skyrim to get rid of that stuff so you can just start anywhere without dragons. Much more relaxing Yes of course it's a main quest thing. That was the whole point.
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Post by helios969 on Feb 19, 2019 10:58:44 GMT
Either people don't remember, or choose not to...but Witcher 3 did the same exact thing. You HAD to go do side quests due to the level gaps between Main Story quests. you had to XP grind to some extent. So even the game so many people say is the greatest game of all time, does this exact same thing. Nope. In TW3 you get a lot more exp from main quests, especially if you're on lower levels. IIRC, they balanced it in a way that allowed you to ignore side quests completely. Yeah, I don't think I did more than a handful of side quests in my first 2 playthroughs...the 2nd on the highest difficulty.
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Post by river82 on Feb 19, 2019 11:05:31 GMT
Ah, main quest stuff. Thanks Not my favourite part of the game I download a mod in Skyrim to get rid of that stuff so you can just start anywhere without dragons. Much more relaxing Yes of course it's a main quest thing. That was the whole point. It wasn't a beloved part of the game. People tolerated it as part of a nice overall RPG package, but there's no reason to level gate content. As for true RPG afficianados currently on the Bethesda forum that approves of it, I'm really not surprised. A lot of what people called the "hardcore" RPG fans of Bethesda left after Oblivion released, and just before I left I was in discussions in the general forum with guys who left after Daggerfall, guys that believed Morrowind was too casual for them. I can tell you actually there was a big influx from the Bethesda forums to another forum right after Oblivion released. What I'm trying to say is that Bethesda ... for lack of a better word "casualised" their games a long time ago. People who are Bethesda fans currently, and who would currently lurk on Bethesda forums are not "true RPG connoisseurs." The "true RPG connoisseurs" are on other forums complaining bitterly about what Bethesda's done to Fallout.
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Post by river82 on Feb 19, 2019 11:26:24 GMT
While "console casuals" played Morrowind and Oblivion, true RPG gamers played ... Gothic 2 and Gothic 3. These games were actually quite horrible and I never liked them, which I guess means I'm not hardcore enough. I remember people raving about choice and consequences but all I remember was they were horrid.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 19, 2019 14:22:08 GMT
TW3 isn't strictly level gated as we know but Morrowind is. And boy is that game lauded for it. By "true" rpg connaiseurs Not from what I've heard. Morrowind is lauded by true RPG fans for many other reasons though, like the ability to succeed in combat being directly related to the skills of your character and not the skills of the player Morrowind lauded by true rpg fans for its combat tied to statistics is either a brilliant joke a rose tinted glass. Let's be honest, that was the weakest part of the game. Morrowind and by extension the level systems found pre skyrim in elder scrolls were notorious for being broken and exploitative. Your right it's based on character skill, but it was a poorly implemented system where the savvy players level up skills they don't plan on using for their main skills to grind good stats. I hated that shit to be honest and this is a true rpg fan saying that .
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 19, 2019 14:35:40 GMT
While "console casuals" played Morrowind and Oblivion, true RPG gamers played ... Gothic 2 and Gothic 3. These games were actually quite horrible and I never liked them, which I guess means I'm not hardcore enough. I remember people raving about choice and consequences but all I remember was they were horrid. They are probably - at least Gothic 1 was - an early example how to do open world interesting while not relying on physical barriers (gates, unjumpable dunes, unclinmbable mountains, outright invisible barriers). Instead enemies were placed so there would be a natural path of progression but you could go wherever you wanted. If you survived.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 19, 2019 14:42:35 GMT
Not from what I've heard. Morrowind is lauded by true RPG fans for many other reasons though, like the ability to succeed in combat being directly related to the skills of your character and not the skills of the player Morrowind lauded by true rpg fans for its combat tied to statistics is either a brilliant joke a rose tinted glass. Let's be honest, that was the weakest part of the game. Morrowind and by extension the level systems found pre skyrim in elder scrolls were notorious for being broken and exploitative. Your right it's based on character skill, but it was a poorly implemented system where the savvy players level up skills they don't plan on using for their main skills to grind good stats. I hated that shit to be honest and this is a true rpg fan saying that . Well, yes, but it was fun to break it. If you wanted you could go nuts. nd roleplay your nerd mage just found philosopher stone. I mean, it's not like melee combat was big on skills either. The only skill was probably how to break the game and make meta potions and god-like spells.
I pretty much figured out quite early I needed necth leather for my magic projects. I was obsessed with netch leather. And it was totally worth it. I made potions no man dreamed possible before. With netch leather.
And Skyrim - well, I know you can afk-farm your blocking, but honestly - who cares in a SP game how people like to play? Imo, skill increase by usage was always more immersive than hearing a *bleep* for level unlock and then click buttons to invest points.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 19, 2019 14:47:14 GMT
While "console casuals" played Morrowind and Oblivion, true RPG gamers played ... Gothic 2 and Gothic 3. These games were actually quite horrible and I never liked them, which I guess means I'm not hardcore enough. I remember people raving about choice and consequences but all I remember was they were horrid. I'll wait for the real grognards to swing their dicks at the mention of wizardry or betrayal and krondor.
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 19, 2019 14:50:04 GMT
Morrowind lauded by true rpg fans for its combat tied to statistics is either a brilliant joke a rose tinted glass. Let's be honest, that was the weakest part of the game. Morrowind and by extension the level systems found pre skyrim in elder scrolls were notorious for being broken and exploitative. Your right it's based on character skill, but it was a poorly implemented system where the savvy players level up skills they don't plan on using for their main skills to grind good stats. I hated that shit to be honest and this is a true rpg fan saying that . Well, yes, but it was fun to break it. If you wanted you could go nuts. nd roleplay your nerd mage just found philosopher stone. I mean, it's not like melee combat was big on skills either. The only skill was probably how to break the game and make meta potions and god-like spells.
I pretty much figured out quite early I needed necth leather for my magic projects. I was obsessed with netch leather. And it was totally worth it. I made potions no man dreamed possible before. With netch leather.
And Skyrim - well, I know you can afk-farm your blocking, but honestly - who cares in a SP game how people like to play? Imo, skill increase by usage was always more immersive than hearing a *bleep* for level unlock and then click buttons to invest points.
Fun to break is not necessarily a good reason though to have it implemented. Inherently it doesn't matter since it's a single player game, but it does matter in context of the overall product. The fact that to game the system for stats we want we need to do the opposite of character creation is kind of backwards, as fun as it can be.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 19, 2019 14:52:51 GMT
Well, yes, but it was fun to break it. If you wanted you could go nuts. nd roleplay your nerd mage just found philosopher stone. I mean, it's not like melee combat was big on skills either. The only skill was probably how to break the game and make meta potions and god-like spells.
I pretty much figured out quite early I needed necth leather for my magic projects. I was obsessed with netch leather. And it was totally worth it. I made potions no man dreamed possible before. With netch leather.
And Skyrim - well, I know you can afk-farm your blocking, but honestly - who cares in a SP game how people like to play? Imo, skill increase by usage was always more immersive than hearing a *bleep* for level unlock and then click buttons to invest points.
Fun to break is not necessarily a good reason though to have it implemented. Inherently it doesn't matter since it's a single player game, but it does matter in context of the overall product. The fact that to game the system for stats we want we need to do the opposite of character creation is kind of backwards, as fun as it can be. I'm sure it'd be kinda stale in every game but as a one-off in Morrowind I enjoyed to explore it.
"Character creation" as in "character progress / development"?
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Post by linksocarina on Feb 19, 2019 15:03:43 GMT
Fun to break is not necessarily a good reason though to have it implemented. Inherently it doesn't matter since it's a single player game, but it does matter in context of the overall product. The fact that to game the system for stats we want we need to do the opposite of character creation is kind of backwards, as fun as it can be. I'm sure it'd be kinda stale in every game but as a one-off in Morrowind I enjoyed to explore it.
"Character creation" as in "character progress / development"? Character progress and creation go hand in hand. Due to the level up mechanics, you'd want to make a character who capitalizes on getting points in stats vs skill attributes, because higher stats means survivability and success, speed, all that jazz. But to reap the full benefits you need to have primary and secondary skills that are not in tune with character choice. So a mage who wants high will or int, you'd likely take maybe 1 spell school as a primary or secondary skill for both those stats so you can effiecently level up your will and int with non selected skills. So imagine a mage whose only primary magic skill is destruction, a secondary is restoration, and you use tons of alteration, alchemy and conjuration as untrained to gain +5 int and wI'll every time you level up. It's counter intuitive to creation, where a pure mage would likely make most magical schools primary or secondary. It focuses entirely on the mechanics of progression. People are more likely to end up with sub par characters that would be slaughtered otherwise at the higher levels, unless they get something to counteract. Which is all fine, mind you. But too many roleplayers power game in the face of mechanics.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 19, 2019 16:28:14 GMT
Has anyone seen any statement from the devs stating outright that people beginning this quest with 0/X progress on all tasks is a bug or not? Gamble has said you will get the quest earlier so it will be tracking early on, but so far I haven't seen them address at all why some people get it with progress already underway and some of us got it starting at 0.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 19, 2019 16:46:57 GMT
Javelins Repaired (heal another player) - 3This is the one I'm hung up on, I'm gonna have to hit someone up to die for me... a few times. I suspect finding enough random downed javelins in Freeplay could take you days.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 19, 2019 17:48:31 GMT
Javelins Repaired (heal another player) - 3This is the one I'm hung up on, I'm gonna have to hit someone up to die for me... a few times. I suspect finding enough random downed javelins in Freeplay could take you days. I’ll volunteer
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 19, 2019 18:10:44 GMT
Javelins Repaired (heal another player) - 3This is the one I'm hung up on, I'm gonna have to hit someone up to die for me... a few times. I suspect finding enough random downed javelins in Freeplay could take you days. I’ll volunteer I accept your sacrifice, for the greater... um... Hrungr.
(You're on PC, right...?)
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 19, 2019 18:13:15 GMT
I’ll volunteer I accept your sacrifice, for the greater... um... Hrungr.
(You're on PC, right...?)
Yep on pc. I have about two hours left on my trial.
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Post by Hrungr on Feb 19, 2019 18:18:03 GMT
I accept your sacrifice, for the greater... um... Hrungr.
(You're on PC, right...?)
Yep on pc. I have about two hours left on my trial. Oh, damn... well I don't want to waste the last of your trial on this SC! (I can nab someone later tonight who's running Origin Premier.)
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Post by Terminator Force on Feb 19, 2019 18:22:57 GMT
You have to open all of them. I consider myself a pretty efficient player concerning tasks like these. When I got this quest I had 3.5 hours played. I just completed it at 7 hours, so it took something like 3-4 hours just to do this grindy nonsense. What made that a highlight in retrospect was the that it all took place in freeplay, so it was a nice introductory to get us familiar with freeplay.
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Post by Space Cowboy on Feb 19, 2019 18:23:49 GMT
Yep on pc. I have about two hours left on my trial. Oh, damn... well I don't want to waste the last of your trial on this SC! (I can nab someone later tonight who's running Origin Premier.) No it’s fine. I didn’t have anything else I wanted to do with it
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