inherit
3354
0
Jun 14, 2024 23:31:11 GMT
2,811
Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
1,002
February 2017
geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Little Bengel on Mar 15, 2019 13:38:54 GMT
I agree that in principle you can rationalize any decision in the game. A character thinking along those lines doesn't strike me as very far-sighted, though. There won't be a lot of grateful soldiers left if Redcliffe is an undead town when you return because the demon didn't miraculously stay in its room, and if Eamon dies when you slaughter Connor like a pig or vanquish the demon in the Fade then... Teagan is Arl. And you already have more sway with him than you ever do with his brother. And no more reason to go traipsing off into the mountains for miracle cures. And meh, an unarmed and unarmored werewolf army - you have personally been killing them without much trouble for two hours by this point - would be effective against spawn for five minutes until they all got sick with the Taint if they were susceptible to such, having no protection whatsoever. A bunch of great archers easily out-values kamikaze shock troops tactically in most medieval warfare scenarios. But yeah, whatever floats your boat. Well, if you don't want to share your reasoning that's fine, but nobody can read your mind. So there really isn't much to talk about then. And from the perspective of a heterosexual man who knows several victims of various kinds of physical and sexual abuse, I also found it sloppy and awkward for my character to be dragged into such a complicated and intimate dynamic she knew basically nothing about and asked to try to influence Dorian's emotional life in such profound ways as a relative stranger who had definitely not earned his trust to that level. Suddenly asking for that kind cheapens him as a grown, intelligent man who otherwise is no stranger to making tough decisions at his own peril. I didn't share my reasoning, because it is largely based in emotion. But if you really want to know, I had a friend (I haven't spoken to him for a couple years now), who was subjected to reparative therapy as a child. He got into the Dragon Age games because I recommended them after playing Origins, on the basis that they were more inclusive than other games. I don't know all the details of what his "treatment" involved, but it ought to be common knowledge by now that what goes on in these institutions is nothing less than torture. And that's the main crux of my problem: BioWare wants to mine the pain of homosexuals for cheap drama, but it doesn't want to confront its majority-straight audience with the horrifying reality of what that involves. Compared to what many children go through, Dorian, a grown-ass man, is getting off extremely lightly. The blood magic mind control spell, while being an obvious and ham-fisted metaphor, isn't remotely apt (and Halward, saint that he is, was only THINKING about it, after all). Considering the general clamour on this forum for more "dark realism", it's remarkable that more people don't bring up this particular point, but of course that's because "dark realism" is mostly just code for "opportunities to be a terrible person". When my friend came across this quest, not only did he not complete it, he stopped playing the game altogether, and to my knowledge, never finished it. The content of the narrative was bad enough, but the fact that the quest directly asks you to lie to Dorian on behalf of a religious authority figure (real subtle imagery there) was the final straw for him. I'm sure some people in here will dismiss that as the whining of a "triggered snowflake", but I know my friend is extremely smart and rational, and not prone to making snap decisions based on emotion. I am, however, and everything about that quest and how it was written absolutely repels me. The fact that it was written by an openly gay man just twists the knife, I am strongly of the opinion that David Gaider ought to know better. Calling it a "personal story" isn't a defense, it was written for public consumption, and the things it says about the issue will be internalised by the game's audience. Of course, lots of gay people also liked the quest. I don't claim to be an authority on what gay men think. I can't possibly argue against this kind of personal experience, especially since your views make perfect sense in light of it. For what it's worth, I hope your friend's living a happy, normal life nowadays. As far as opinions go, I can imagine that people who have some experience with that sort of "therapy" would not react well to the quest, especially with how its themes were handled. Conversly, those who have never experienced it would have no problem with it, and therefore wouldn't see this quest as a grave mishandling. That said, looking at things in this light, the way it was handled was frankly insulting, and I agree that Gaider should have either gone all in or not at all. If it's deemed too shocking... well, DA games are rated M. Let them take advantage of that to show why something is revolting instead of bare titties on display, and leave that for the Witcher games. Which, ironically, probably also do a better job at the former than DA:I did.
|
|
inherit
3852
0
Feb 26, 2017 13:09:29 GMT
2,275
Rouccoco
520
Feb 24, 2017 23:47:54 GMT
February 2017
bioticapostate
|
Post by Rouccoco on Mar 15, 2019 16:40:47 GMT
Meredith may be paranoid and fervently anti-mage, but as DA2's final quest shows, she was right about the blood mages in the Circle. Except she wasn't right - she just made sure the circle was so bad that her delusions became reality. She and the templars created a situation, where more and more mages felt that their only way to protect themselves against rape, murder, or being magically lobotomised (for stuff like love letters) was turning to blood magic. It's her abuse that turned blood magic from rare occurrence to everyday norm. That and jailing mages, where the veil was the weakest. Basically
|
|
inherit
3354
0
Jun 14, 2024 23:31:11 GMT
2,811
Little Bengel
Partying like it's 1999
1,002
February 2017
geminifreak
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by Little Bengel on Mar 15, 2019 17:13:17 GMT
Meredith may be paranoid and fervently anti-mage, but as DA2's final quest shows, she was right about the blood mages in the Circle. Except she wasn't right - she just made sure the circle was so bad that her delusions became reality. She and the templars created a situation, where more and more mages felt that their only way to protect themselves against rape, murder, or being magically lobotomised (for stuff like love letters) was turning to blood magic. It's her abuse that turned blood magic from rare occurrence to everyday norm. That and jailing mages, where the veil was the weakest. Basically True, a lot of it was by her own hand. That makes it into some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. ...and now I feel like cracking a joke about Meredith being some sort of godlike entity for some reason, so thanks for that.
|
|
wright1978
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Prime Posts: 8,116
Prime Likes: 2073
Posts: 1,658 Likes: 2,504
inherit
1492
0
2,504
wright1978
1,658
Sept 8, 2016 12:06:29 GMT
September 2016
wright1978
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
8,116
2073
|
Post by wright1978 on Mar 15, 2019 17:39:56 GMT
Actually, depending on what you ask, he does at least make mention of the possible consequences: Good point, I'd forgotten about that line. Cole does things to people's minds. I find abhorrent but not out of place in the setting. I don't see how you can go into the physical/mental pain as the spell either failed or dorian foiled it. It would require meeting someone treated with such a spell, seeing how aftereffects have turned the individual into a wreck, removing the spell and hearing them describe the physical pain of being engulfed by it. Cole makes tiny and immediate adjustments to people's current thought processes, and he's in a position to know what they actually want to achieve and help them move in that direction. Not quite the same situation. And Dorian should be perfectly able to conjecture about the possible effects in detail. I'm sure a Magister-in-training isn't short on anecdotes about even well-intentioned blood magic and what it feels like and experimentation affecting targets in creepy and unintended ways. Don’t agree at all about cole knowing best. I think ‘drooling vegetable’ does pretty much cover the worst case scenario as well as the whole notion of not being himself anymore even if it hadn’t. I’d say it’s very hard to conjecture long term side effects even if it hadn’t turned him into a drooling vegetable and the myriad possibilities is not something he’s going to launch into in a casual conversation.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 15, 2019 17:51:16 GMT
True, a lot of it was by her own hand. That makes it into some sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. ...and now I feel like cracking a joke about Meredith being some sort of godlike entity for some reason, so thanks for that. To be fair, the odds were stacked a bit against her. With Coryphewhatshisface napping right outside the city and thinning the veil, no doubt twisting and turning thanks to the very recent Blight right across the Ameranthine Ocean, it's hard to blame her for not being able to know the difference between an outside influence driving a hugely disproportionate amount of the local mages to madness and demonic temptation, and a deliberate blood mage conspiracy afoot in her domain. When the normal templar policies under such circumstances don't solve the problem - because in reality nothing short of relocating the entire circle could - she obviously has to crack down harder, exacerbating the issue. And then a notorious mage rebel starts squatting in her city and begins turning the working class against her with miraculous free healing. And then a totally foreign and madness-inducing mineral suddenly turns up on the market. Yay. Add to that that the way she came into power in the first place was literally God's spokeswoman on Earth ordering her to murder the original Viscount and install a puppet in his place. That can't have been great for the mental health of a hopeful young Knight-Commander. I think she's well and truly lost her marbles, at least by act 3. But there are moments where she seems grounded and intelligent and appears to know exactly what she's doing and how monstrous it is. So my instinct is that she too was pushed to this point by a combination of factors outside her power to control. I think ‘drooling vegetable’ does pretty much cover the worst case scenario as well as the whole notion of not being himself anymore even if it hadn’t. I’d say it’s very hard to conjecture long term side effects even if it hadn’t turned him into a drooling vegetable and the myriad possibilities is not something he’s going to launch into in a casual conversation. You're dead wrong. "Drooling vegetable" and "not being yourself" do not in the slightest cover the worst case scenarios. Have you ever been in a state where your instincts and your thinking mind and the people you have to trust to tell you the truth don't all agree about things that you rely on to orient yourself in day-to-day life, and you have no idea whatsoever which of them is lying? I've been there once or twice, and vegetable-hood would have been far preferable. Our ability to trust our senses and underlying view of the world is what lets us stand up and live real lives as dignified human beings. Once you start messing directly with that you're almost immediately reduced to an anxious, terrified and lonely bundle of uncertainty with no way to trust or hope that it's ever going to get better. Assuming you aren't manipulated towards or turn yourself to violence to feel some semblance of control, if you're capable of that. That's the worst case scenario. That's why insanity is so scary and dangerous, and why pharmaceutical companies are supposed to be fucking careful about drugs that play around with your biochemistry. On reflection, I definitely agree that the balance between "How dare you try to make such decisions for me, dad!" and "Do you really understand what you almost did to me, you psycho!?" in Dorian's ranting is skewed in that quest. And no, it wouldn't have been hard to write his dialogue with more weight on the latter point. It would, however, have made it quite a bit harder to justify the more optimistic solution to the dilemma, which may have been why Gaider wrote it as he did.
|
|
theascendent
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
PSN: The Ascendent
Posts: 487 Likes: 634
inherit
9275
0
634
theascendent
487
Aug 28, 2017 10:17:49 GMT
August 2017
theascendent
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
The Ascendent
|
Post by theascendent on Mar 15, 2019 17:58:04 GMT
Let's not forget that Meredith a Templar and servant of the Chantry effectively usurped control of the city for three years. I am pretty sure that the Chantry aren't allowed to seize control of a city as they please. And don't get me started on Elthina the enabler.
|
|
Sylvius the Mad
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 686 Likes: 740
inherit
1078
0
Jul 17, 2019 20:15:37 GMT
740
Sylvius the Mad
686
August 2016
sylvius
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Sylvius the Mad on Mar 16, 2019 4:31:41 GMT
That's what people are like, though. "Someone has to pay!" they'll shout, not caring particularly who that is as long as it's not them. It's apparently what Meredith is like. We don't really get to poll the citizens of Kirkwall about it. I meant real world people. That Meredith is like that is wholly believable, because that is the sort of thing people actually do say.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,070
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 16, 2019 4:37:15 GMT
It's apparently what Meredith is like. We don't really get to poll the citizens of Kirkwall about it. I meant real world people. That Meredith is like that is wholly believable, because that is the sort of thing people actually do say. A cynical view of humanity, but not wholly inaccurate.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 16, 2019 17:15:29 GMT
I meant real world people. That Meredith is like that is wholly believable, because that is the sort of thing people actually do say. A cynical view of humanity, but not wholly inaccurate. When you agree something is fairly accurate, the term is realistic rather than cynical. Calling people or ideas pessimistic or cynical just because they believe the well-documented unfortunate tendencies of our species should be taken into account at all rather than ignored or white-washed away is pretty disingenuous, and also just bad philosophical terminology. It's evidence that you yourself are unrealistically optimistic or idealistic, and your perspective of what is realistic or not is skewed in favor of hopeful thinking. For future reference, someone who is cynical is someone who unrealistically expects and believes the worst and most selfish of people, or accepts such behaviors in themselves or on their own behalf.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,070
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 16, 2019 23:17:50 GMT
A cynical view of humanity, but not wholly inaccurate. When you agree something is fairly accurate, the term is realistic rather than cynical. Calling people or ideas pessimistic or cynical just because they believe the well-documented unfortunate tendencies of our species should be taken into account at all rather than ignored or white-washed away is pretty disingenuous, and also just bad philosophical terminology. It's evidence that you yourself are unrealistically optimistic or idealistic, and your perspective of what is realistic or not is skewed in favor of hopeful thinking. For future reference, someone who is cynical is someone who unrealistically expects and believes the worst and most selfish of people, or accepts such behaviors in themselves or on their own behalf. Yes, and I continue to say it is 'cynical', because I don't think it's fair or remotely realisitic to expect that all or even most people would react that way. That is not what I see in the real world. A recent act of white terrorism in New Zealand stole the lives of 49 Muslims, children included. At least one of the perpetrators was an Australian man. I have yet to see a single Muslim anywhere say that there should be some sort of retaliation against all Australians. Even in the context of Kirkwall, we see throughout the game that some citizens have harboured escaped mages or aided the underground resistance. Meredith is a madwoman whose lunacy has been exacerbated by exposure to red lyrium. I find it doubtful that the majority of Kirkwall citizens, even if they did want blood, as she claims, would agree that said blood should come from a group of completely uninvolved people. And given how events ultimately shake out, she'll likely be remembered by the people of Kirkwall as a monster.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 17, 2019 0:49:55 GMT
For future reference, someone who is cynical is someone who unrealistically expects and believes the worst and most selfish of people, or accepts such behaviors in themselves or on their own behalf. Yes, and I continue to say it is 'cynical', because I don't think it's fair or remotely realisitic to expect that all or even most people would react that way. That is not what I see in the real world. A recent act of white terrorism in New Zealand stole the lives of 49 Muslims, children included. At least one of the perpetrators was an Australian man. I have yet to see a single Muslim anywhere say that there should be some sort of retaliation against all Australians. Even in the context of Kirkwall, we see throughout the game that some citizens have harboured escaped mages or aided the underground resistance. Meredith is a madwoman whose lunacy has been exacerbated by exposure to red lyrium. I find it doubtful that the majority of Kirkwall citizens, even if they did want blood, as she claims, would agree that said blood should come from a group of completely uninvolved people. And given how events ultimately shake out, she'll likely be remembered by the people of Kirkwall as a monster. Then you've confused yourself about some very basic facts about the nature of human existence: 1: There being exceptions to rules is not an argument for there not being rules or tendencies or a law of averages. You may not have seen Muslims clamoring for the destruction of Australia, but those white terrorists you speak of, and the people supporting them, and the people cheering for them out loud or in their minds, and the people acting out cruelties and actually earning all that ire and fear in Iraq and Syria, and in ghettos elsewhere, and the people cheering for them act out of exactly the logic you just now denied could be assumed to exist in any given population, which is factually not true. Why? Give me 100 randomly selected people. At least one of those people is a complete moron with a big mouth. Give me 1000 people, and at least one of those is a cynical(used correctly) fucker with charisma and connections and the ability to frame stupid ideas so they sound appealing to people who are hungry or anxious enough to cheer for anything that makes them feel more powerful or secure. Meaning that in any real population center there are dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of those, with ten times as many inclined to listen to them and spread their rhetoric. Meaning that stupidity and hatred can and does breed anywhere, in all places and creeds, and the less stable and secure an administration or institution is, the more stupidity and hatred and fear can take hold. Kirkwall is not a stable or secure, let alone safe, city. Meaning that regardless of the few mage sympathizers you run into in the game, the majority would be predisposed to simple and effective-sounding ways to make the city safe again. And getting rid of the mages would be the most simple and effective-sounding way. If you're an American, or a Brit, that pattern can't possibly sound unfamiliar to you these days. 2: What you "see in the world" isn't a real representation of the world. You mainly surround yourself with people you like and who think like you. You mainly gravitate towards the same things as the people you like and who think like you. You mainly read and listen to and watch the same things as the people you like and who think like you. And all those things and people cater to you, because they like you and you think like them. Thus you cannot realistically trust your own environment to inform you about how the world works. Nobody can. We developed to live in tribes, not inter-connected civilizations, and think along those lines as a matter of instinct, universally. I've studied at one of the most liberal college campuses in the world. I've spent a year at trade school. I've worked for three awesome years in a small carpentry workshop. I've done a short stint in the military. Now I'm a technician, working in a strongly pro-green energy industrial company. One thing that has been common to each and every one of those environments? A tendency to bitch and whine about and unfairly blame the majority of the country's and the world's trouble on certain groups or races or institutions. Not the same, but always some. If you can't hear it yourself then it's just because you share the unreasoning hatreds particular to your personal social environment. And based on what I've seen you casually write about white and male and heterosexual and financially successful people on this forum, I don't doubt for a second that that's the case. 3: Most people don't have as much information as you do about the things that you're passionate about or interested in. The vast majority of us are just trying to keep our lives in working order, and have neither the time nor the energy to spend hours reading up on each facet of complex subjects that we don't feel, on the face of them, particularly relate to us or the people we care about. That's just how it is. It's why, combined with the previous factor, academics and the working class just can't seem to figure out how to understand or talk to each other. Ever. Anywhere. Add to that that Kirkwall is a huge pseudo-medieval city with pre-industrial means of mass communication. Know where most Kirkwallers probably got their news and gossip and important public messages? The Chantry. Good luck informing them all about the exact unbiased circumstances of the explosion and the conditions mages live under, let alone "polling" them, with anything resembling efficiency. And you're kidding yourself. It's not until years later that Cassandra potentially determines that the Chantry was to blame, talking it over with Varric. If Meredith is remembered as a monster then it's because she turned into a red demonic-looking freak and started slaughtering her colleagues and animate statues of Andraste to murder for her, rather than because of her policies.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
10921
0
Jun 15, 2024 10:15:21 GMT
Deleted
0
Jun 15, 2024 10:15:21 GMT
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 1:15:54 GMT
A cynical view of humanity, but not wholly inaccurate. When you agree something is fairly accurate, the term is realistic rather than cynical. Calling people or ideas pessimistic or cynical just because they believe the well-documented unfortunate tendencies of our species should be taken into account at all rather than ignored or white-washed away is pretty disingenuous, and also just bad philosophical terminology. It's evidence that you yourself are unrealistically optimistic or idealistic, and your perspective of what is realistic or not is skewed in favor of hopeful thinking. For future reference, someone who is cynical is someone who unrealistically expects and believes the worst and most selfish of people, or accepts such behaviors in themselves or on their own behalf. These claims you make about terms and concepts of cynicism and realism are quite unfamiliar to me. Is there some philosophical (or historical, or linguistical) author, school of thought, or larger theoretical framework these definitions about terms such as cynicism and its relation to realism and optimism/pessimism are based upon? If it isn't too much trouble, and you could indulge me, please. No need to summarize some large philosophical body of works or anything, I'd more than happy if you pointed me to sources.
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 17, 2019 1:21:52 GMT
These claims you make about terms and concepts of cynicism and realism are quite unfamiliar to me. Is there some philosophical (or historical, or linguistical) author, school of thought, or larger theoretical framework these definitions about terms such as cynicism and its relation to realism and optimism/pessimism are based upon? If it isn't too much trouble, and you could indulge me, please. No need to summarize some large philosophical body of works or anything, I'd more than happy if you pointed me to sources. I'd be delighted to! Have you ever heard of the Oxford English Dictionary?
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,023
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Mar 18, 2019 2:37:26 GMT
That and jailing mages, where the veil was the weakest. That's not really so much Meredith's fault though, the Templars have a habit of doing this.
The entire reason they use Aeonar as a prison is specifically because the Veil is weak there, in order to test whether or not someone might be possessed. Because if a mage wasn't possessed before, putting them in a place that draws in demons, then torturing them to the point where a demon's offer to "let them in" might seem tempting... well, who can argue with that perfectly sound logic? Surely those are the kinds of minds you need in charge of guarding magical prisons, what could ever go wrong?!
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,070
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 18, 2019 2:52:16 GMT
That and jailing mages, where the veil was the weakest. That's not really so much Meredith's fault though, the Templars have a habit of doing this.
The entire reason they use Aeonar as a prison is specifically because the Veil is weak there, in order to test whether or not someone might be possessed. Because if a mage wasn't possessed before, putting them in a place that draws in demons, then torturing them to the point where a demon's offer to "let them in" might seem tempting... well, who can argue with that perfectly sound logic? Surely those are the kinds of minds you need in charge of guarding magical prisons, what could ever go wrong?!
"If she weighs the same as a duck, she's made of wood!"
|
|
inherit
3439
0
9,313
alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
7,868
February 2017
alanc9
|
Post by alanc9 on Mar 18, 2019 3:50:44 GMT
"Build a bridge out of her!"
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 5:27:47 GMT
I've just watched Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle directed by Hayao Miyazaki almost back-to-back. And I dare anyone here to watch any one of them and then say that DAI does a better job at either capturing people's actual natures or managing an uplifting, inspirational, humorous and fantastical story.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,070
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 18, 2019 7:39:08 GMT
I already think DAI fails at telling an interesting story, so.
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,844 Likes: 11,995
inherit
10314
0
Jun 14, 2024 17:22:56 GMT
11,995
LadyofNemesis
4,844
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 18, 2019 10:21:53 GMT
I've just watched Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle directed by Hayao Miyazaki almost back-to-back. And I dare anyone here to watch any one of them and then say that DAI does a better job at either capturing people's actual natures or managing an uplifting, inspirational, humorous and fantastical story. I've watched all of them in the past, but Howl's Moving Castle is my favorite of the three
And I wouldn't say DAI does a better or worse job at the things you mention, those movies had scenes that made me laugh, cry and sometimes even give me wtf reactions the same is true about DAI, when a scene can make me feel the same things, for me personally it's a success
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 11:50:55 GMT
I've watched all of them in the past, but Howl's Moving Castle is my favorite of the three And I wouldn't say DAI does a better or worse job at the things you mention, those movies had scenes that made me laugh, cry and sometimes even give me wtf reactions the same is true about DAI, when a scene can make me feel the same things, for me personally it's a success noxluxe disapproves -10 You need to raise your standards. With that logic, you could enjoy nearly any kind of entertainment with anything to recommend itself at all. And down that road lies madness. Watch them again. They're worth it. Especially Spirited Away, which is objectively the best. When I compare the proportional amounts of time I spend yawning through predictable grandstanding cut-scenes full of bad posture and uninspired jokes and pathetic RPG platitudes, and how much I spend spellbound staring at the screen enjoying gorgeous landscapes and music and watching people do and say at once surprising and imminently logical things, there's really no comparison at all.
|
|
inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,070
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 18, 2019 11:55:14 GMT
And yet on this forum (probably in this very thread if I could be assed to look), people use "anime" as a pejorative.
|
|
LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,844 Likes: 11,995
inherit
10314
0
Jun 14, 2024 17:22:56 GMT
11,995
LadyofNemesis
4,844
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
|
Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 18, 2019 12:44:30 GMT
noxluxe disapproves -10 You need to raise your standards. With that logic, you could enjoy nearly any kind of entertainment with anything to recommend itself at all. And down that road lies madness. Watch them again. They're worth it. Especially Spirited Away, which is objectively the best. When I compare the proportional amounts of time I spend yawning through predictable grandstanding cut-scenes full of bad posture and uninspired jokes and pathetic RPG platitudes, and how much I spend spellbound staring at the screen enjoying gorgeous landscapes and music and watching people do and say at once surprising and imminently logical things, there's really no comparison at all. *shrug* my standards have never been very high
I'm easily satisfied, I've tried broaden my genres in games before...got as far as trying out Fallout 4 (I normally play fantasy, and sometimes sci-fi (like Mass Effect)
and I do enjoy watching certain movies again and again, each time you find new details you didn't see before
to be honest, the only game that ever had me feel like it was predictable, was Jade Empire there were several moments that made me go 'let me guess, this is going to happen next'
and while I found Spirited Away entertaining (I loved Haku), it didn't really feel like it was my kind of movie even though I'm normally a big fan of supernatural things and mythology like seen in this movie
I often find myself disagreeing with what people find 'the best', and I'm fine with that, after all, everyone has their own opinions and tastes
for example, back in junior high most of my female classmates were fans of the Twilight series, one time one of my friends asked if I was Team Jacob or Team Edward ...I dryly replied I was Team Harry (Potter)
|
|
Noxluxe
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Posts: 1,993 Likes: 3,517
inherit
10359
0
Mar 14, 2019 16:10:11 GMT
3,517
Noxluxe
1,993
Jul 21, 2018 23:55:09 GMT
July 2018
noxluxe
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
|
Post by Noxluxe on Mar 18, 2019 13:06:04 GMT
And yet on this forum (probably in this very thread if I could be assed to look), people use "anime" as a pejorative. Pfff, there's anime and then there's art.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Sept 14, 2023 6:08:41 GMT
9,897
Ieldra
4,771
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Mar 18, 2019 14:14:48 GMT
When you agree something is fairly accurate, the term is realistic rather than cynical. Calling people or ideas pessimistic or cynical just because they believe the well-documented unfortunate tendencies of our species should be taken into account at all rather than ignored or white-washed away is pretty disingenuous, and also just bad philosophical terminology. It's evidence that you yourself are unrealistically optimistic or idealistic, and your perspective of what is realistic or not is skewed in favor of hopeful thinking. For future reference, someone who is cynical is someone who unrealistically expects and believes the worst and most selfish of people, or accepts such behaviors in themselves or on their own behalf. These claims you make about terms and concepts of cynicism and realism are quite unfamiliar to me. Is there some philosophical (or historical, or linguistical) author, school of thought, or larger theoretical framework these definitions about terms such as cynicism and its relation to realism and optimism/pessimism are based upon? If it isn't too much trouble, and you could indulge me, please. No need to summarize some large philosophical body of works or anything, I'd more than happy if you pointed me to sources.
Quote:
"By the 19th century, emphasis on the negative aspects of Cynic philosophy led to the modern understanding of cynicism to mean a disposition of disbelief in the sincerity or goodness of human motives and actions."
|
|
inherit
376
0
Oct 17, 2016 19:19:36 GMT
3,474
opuspace
2,129
August 2016
opuspace
|
Post by opuspace on Mar 18, 2019 15:19:13 GMT
I've just watched Princess Mononoke, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle directed by Hayao Miyazaki almost back-to-back. And I dare anyone here to watch any one of them and then say that DAI does a better job at either capturing people's actual natures or managing an uplifting, inspirational, humorous and fantastical story. You get a like for being a Miyazaki fan.
|
|