copper
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Post by copper on Feb 20, 2019 23:16:40 GMT
I never noticed the different voice actor. For me it's his shift in attitude about the genophage. In ME2 he's very logical about the science behind the genophage and why it's necessary with Krogan birth rates, though a Paragon Shepard can make him feel bad about it despite its necessity. In ME3 it's apparently okay to cure the genophage because he likes Wrex and Eve as leaders. He never addresses how Wrex and Eve will prevent a population explosion, or what will happen when they eventually die. I'm not against convincing Mordin to help cure the genophage, but I think it should have required some serious logical debate. Mordin addressed this in one of his dialogue. The Reaper war changed this previous view (Mass Effect 2) on the genophage. Do you know his argument or have a link? All I remember is him saying the Reaper War basically gives incentive to cure the genophage now, but nothing about what happens to the krogan after the war is over (assuming the reapers don't win and kill everyone).
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wright1978
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Post by wright1978 on Feb 20, 2019 23:17:53 GMT
I never noticed the different voice actor. For me it's his shift in attitude about the genophage. In ME2 he's very logical about the science behind the genophage and why it's necessary with Krogan birth rates, though a Paragon Shepard can make him feel bad about it despite its necessity. In ME3 it's apparently okay to cure the genophage because he likes Wrex and Eve as leaders. He never addresses how Wrex and Eve will prevent a population explosion, or what will happen when they eventually die. I'm not against convincing Mordin to help cure the genophage, but I think it should have required some serious logical debate. Mordin addressed this in one of his dialogue. The Reaper war changed this previous view (Mass Effect 2) on the genophage. It's very cursory in terms of addressal & doesn't really make a whole load of sense given his previous characterisation imo.
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Post by caladrius on Feb 20, 2019 23:18:36 GMT
I guess I have some concerns, but considering he was basically lead writer on Trespasser, which I thought was great, not many. I did feel DAI lost some of the gritty aesthetic of the first two games but I don’t think that’s on Patrick. I can see some of the political concerns, I am one of those who that thought the reveal of Krem as trans was awkward and a bit preachy, on the other hand I thought Mae was handled well so hopefully they can build on that. I agree with you on the grittiness. I hope Patrick brings it back. As for the political concerns... IMO, Krem felt really bland beyond being trans. It made me feel like he was there just so the game can have a trans character, without even trying to add more to his character. Which makes me (perhaps unnecessarily) scared, because I really dig Maevaris (especially after reading her WoT2 snippet) and I don't want the writers to drop the ball with her like I feel they did with Krem or (god almighty forbid it) Hainly Abrams in Andromeda. I feel like you’re over analyzing this character because it’s a trans character. Yeah, Krem is boring, but he’s just a minor quest giver and an example of how Iron Bull is supposedly a nice guy that wanted to help people in Tevinter even if the qun doesn’t “demand it”, unlike Sten or the Arishok. He’s like the random elf guy Bull helped as a kid. He’s not a major character with an important background, he’s just a narrative tool for Iron Bull’s history and a face for the Chargers that you see Bull interact with, so it makes sense that he cares if they die later. He wasn’t ever supposed to be groundbreaking.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 20, 2019 23:21:54 GMT
Citadel was amazing, Tresspasser was beyond amazing
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Feb 20, 2019 23:26:34 GMT
Do you know his argument or have a link? All I remember is him saying the Reaper War basically gives incentive to cure the genophage now, but nothing about what happens to the krogan after the war is over (assuming the reapers don't win and kill everyone). Starts at 1:45
But you are right he say nothing after the reapers.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 20, 2019 23:28:50 GMT
I agree with you on the grittiness. I hope Patrick brings it back. As for the political concerns... IMO, Krem felt really bland beyond being trans. It made me feel like he was there just so the game can have a trans character, without even trying to add more to his character. Which makes me (perhaps unnecessarily) scared, because I really dig Maevaris (especially after reading her WoT2 snippet) and I don't want the writers to drop the ball with her like I feel they did with Krem or (god almighty forbid it) Hainly Abrams in Andromeda. I feel like you’re over analyzing this character because it’s a trans character. Yeah, Krem is boring, but he’s just a minor quest giver and an example of how Iron Bull is supposedly a nice guy that wanted to help people in Tevinter even if the qun doesn’t “demand it”, unlike Sten or the Arishok. He’s like the random elf guy Bull helped as a kid. He’s not a major character with an important background, he’s just a narrative tool for Iron Bull’s history and a face for the Chargers that you see Bull interact with, so it makes sense that he cares if they die later. He wasn’t ever supposed to be groundbreaking. WHY ISN'T THIS BACKGROUND MINORITY CHARACTER AS FLESHED OUT AS THE PROTAGONIST???
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coldsteelblue
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by coldsteelblue on Feb 21, 2019 0:06:16 GMT
My opinion, Weekes has done a good job with his writing, I find it to be solid & emotional, I think Trespasser was an almost perfect way to end Inquisition, but I'd like to state that my own thoughts would be to have the Inquisitor actually killed off, but that's a discussion for another day.
All-in-all, they wouldn't have given him the job if they didn't think he was up to it & we'll only know 100% when we find out more about the game & most of the info will most likely wait until the game ships.
My own thoughts on the subject.
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Frost
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Post by Frost on Feb 21, 2019 1:05:13 GMT
I am very optimistic about him as lead writer for DA4. I loved Trespasser and also liked a number of characters he has written, especially Solas, Mordin, and Tali.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 21, 2019 1:08:07 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 21, 2019 2:09:26 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do. Well we wouldn't want Lexi to go TOO FAR for lgbt players.
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Post by isaidlunch on Feb 21, 2019 2:10:10 GMT
I think he's significantly worse than Gaider and a lot of what he's written has rubbed me the wrong way. Rannoch is probably the worst - he completely butchered it and retconned it to hell. I worry that he'll do something similar to Tevinter.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 21, 2019 2:21:05 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do. Well we wouldn't want Lexi to go TOO FAR for lgbt players. I honestly don't know what that means. I recall Lexi's from Mass Effect: Andromeda, a game I didn't play, and the only noteworthy info a quick google search revealed is that her surname is T-Dog.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 21, 2019 2:28:26 GMT
Well we wouldn't want Lexi to go TOO FAR for lgbt players. I honestly don't know what that means. I recall Lexi's from Mass Effect: Andromeda, a game I didn't play, and the only noteworthy info a quick google search revealed is that her surname is T-Dog. a-LEXI-s Kennedy is who I meant. And I am referring to this article ( jstationx.com/2017/05/31/bioware-lgbt-characters-criticism/ ), where Kennedy said BioWare needs to "tread a careful path between doing enough and doing too much" for LGBT audiences, because they are going to "annoy someone somewhere down the line". So. I'll take Weekes over a writer who outright states that BioWare should cater to or even acknowledge homophobes in any way. Even if he does end up violently milking my tear ducts to satisfy the sadistic thirst of Manveer Heir.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 21, 2019 2:51:09 GMT
a-LEXI-s Kennedy is who I meant. And I am referring to this article ( jstationx.com/2017/05/31/bioware-lgbt-characters-criticism/ ), where Kennedy said BioWare needs to "tread a careful path between doing enough and doing too much" for LGBT audiences, because they are going to "annoy someone somewhere down the line". So. I'll take Weekes over a writer who outright states that BioWare should cater to or even acknowledge homophobes in any way. Even if he does end up violently milking my tear ducts to satisfy the sadistic thirst of Manveer Heir. Yeah, "more than most developers" is a rather low bar. I don't know if he earnestly believes Bioware shouldn't rock the boat — I would find that strange in light of his previous work, though perhaps the rest of his team deserves all the credit for that —, but his statement strikes me as more descriptive than prescriptive. It is true that Bioware is not all that brave. If they were, Inquisition's only trans character would have been more than a glorified plot device. And it wasn't that long ago that same-sex options caught up with with opposite-sex ones, and m/m with f/f, AND that's ignoring the Andromeda shitshow. What I mean to say is that, while Bioware likes to leverage their LGBT-friendly image, I have no doubt that fear of backlash dictates how far they're willing to go far more than usually acknowledged. Thanks for the link.
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Noxluxe
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Post by Noxluxe on Feb 21, 2019 3:03:41 GMT
a-LEXI-s Kennedy is who I meant. And I am referring to this article ( jstationx.com/2017/05/31/bioware-lgbt-characters-criticism/ ), where Kennedy said BioWare needs to "tread a careful path between doing enough and doing too much" for LGBT audiences, because they are going to "annoy someone somewhere down the line". So. I'll take Weekes over a writer who outright states that BioWare should cater to or even acknowledge homophobes in any way. Even if he does end up violently milking my tear ducts to satisfy the sadistic thirst of Manveer Heir. Yup, because not doing absolutely everything in your power to pander to a minor part of the player base, along with the much larger and nosier group that kicks up a fuss at the first opportunity on their behalf to feel good about themselves, and pushing away the rest of your customers to accommodate that noisier group's every whim is definitely catering to homophobia. It's fairly obvious that the next game is going to be even more of a SJW wish-fulfillment fantasy than Inquisition was. Or "speculative fiction". Because that's totally what it is when an entitled minority cries evil and threatens careers if their half-baked politics aren't allowed to utterly dominate how the world works. Whether he'll learn from it when that backfires and sales plummet amid complaints and fading interest, or double down and never get another game released because by then the PC movement will be too fractured and self-conflicting to even attempt to satisfy with a coherent story, and he still can't dad the fuck up enough to have an honest conversation with his own daughter about sex or gender role assignments throughout history? Who knows.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 3:07:20 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do. Now, see, I actually agree with much of what he says there.
I just fear that his views have changed a great deal in the past decade, to the point where he sees indulgence as good, but only when it's for certain demographics.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Feb 21, 2019 3:12:20 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do. Well we wouldn't want Lexi to go TOO FAR for lgbt players. *crosses fingers for her to be an Ace/Demi LI if they do MEA2* I know you meant Alexis. I just couldn’t help myself.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 3:17:27 GMT
Well we wouldn't want Lexi to go TOO FAR for lgbt players. *crosses fingers for her to be an Ace/Demi LI if they do MEA2* Hey, Hanako, on this subject, would this be something akin to what you're looking for? This is from a game called Divinity: Dragon Commander. Give it a look if you have 15 minutes.
Note: this is the more compassionate path. You can push her to become more severe, and she never shows any affection for anything except THE LAW.
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 21, 2019 3:18:32 GMT
I am weary. I'm not entirely in agreement with Weekes' storytelling philosophy (if you haven't read me go on about it before, see here). Kinda feel like Gaider would at least entertain the possibility of audacious writing. I'm more intrigued by whatever Alexis Kennedy was cooking up. It's too bad Bioware didn't give him more to do. Now, see, I actually agree with much of what he says there.
I just fear that his views have changed a great deal in the past decade, to the point where he sees indulgence as good, but only when it's for certain demographics.
Full disclosure: I have no personal investment whatsoever in LGBT+ content or the lack thereof. But here's the thing — fair is fair (and foul is foul), and Bioware has consistently and without fail favored my demographic. Kicking up a storm because they dared to pay attention to someone else for a change strikes me as entitled and, truth be told, a little pathetic. And what have straight men actually lost, anyway? I count at least two love interests per game, same as always.
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Post by thats1evildude on Feb 21, 2019 3:21:38 GMT
Now, see, I actually agree with much of what he says there. I just fear that his views have changed a great deal in the past decade, to the point where he sees indulgence as good, but only when it's for certain demographics.
Full disclosure: I have no personal investment whatsoever in LGBT+ content or the lack thereof. But here's the thing — fair is fair (and foul is foul), and Bioware has consistently and without fail favored my demographic. Kicking up a storm because they dared to pay attention to someone else for a change strikes me as entitled and, truth be told, a little pathetic. And what have straight men actually lost, anyway? I count at least two love interests per game, same as always. Although some would disagree, I would say we haven't lost anything ... yet. But what if the straight romance options in DA4 were restricted to, say, Harding-style romances? Just a casual acknowledgement of a relationship and nothing further than that? Or what if they were dropped altogether?
But that's not my only fear. I also worry about Patrick's potential willingess to bend lore to accommodate certain viewpoints. What if the concept of broodmothers was done away with in DA4 because they were deemed "problematic"? What if instead of a broodmother being a corrupted human, elf, dwarf or qunari, they instead became the "rare female darkspawn born once every hundred litters or so?”
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Post by githcheater on Feb 21, 2019 3:24:47 GMT
I am thinking that if there is no blatant preaching in the next game, doubling the LGBT content won't raise much controversy as long as there is one fan service romance companion for hetero males in DA4. Then again, I might be underestimating virulent pigs on the internet ...
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Post by Gwydden on Feb 21, 2019 3:30:58 GMT
Although some would disagree, I would say we haven't lost anything ... yet. But what if the straight romance options in DA4 were restricted to, say, Harding-style romances? Just a casual acknowledgement of a relationship and nothing further than that? I try not to worry about baseless hypotheticals. I see no reason at all why what you describe would happen, nor any indication that it will.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Feb 21, 2019 3:49:39 GMT
a-LEXI-s Kennedy is who I meant. And I am referring to this article ( jstationx.com/2017/05/31/bioware-lgbt-characters-criticism/ ), where Kennedy said BioWare needs to "tread a careful path between doing enough and doing too much" for LGBT audiences, because they are going to "annoy someone somewhere down the line". So. I'll take Weekes over a writer who outright states that BioWare should cater to or even acknowledge homophobes in any way. Even if he does end up violently milking my tear ducts to satisfy the sadistic thirst of Manveer Heir. Yup, because not doing absolutely everything in your power to pander to a minor part of the player base, along with the much larger and nosier group that kicks up a fuss at the first opportunity on their behalf to feel good about themselves, and pushing away the rest of your customers to accommodate that noisier group's every whim is definitely catering to homophobia. It's fairly obvious that the next game is going to be even more of a SJW wish-fulfillment fantasy than Inquisition was. Or "speculative fiction". Because that's totally what it is when an entitled minority cries evil and threatens careers if their half-baked politics aren't allowed to utterly dominate how the world works. Whether he'll learn from it when that backfires and sales plummet amid complaints and fading interest, or double down and never get another game released because by then the PC movement will be too fractured and self-conflicting to even attempt to satisfy with a coherent story, and he still can't dad the fuck up enough to have an honest conversation with his own daughter about sex or gender role assignments throughout history? Who knows. GIVING GAYS FAIR TREATMENT IS PANDERING AND EXCLUDING THEM IS AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRT. NYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER. FANTASY SOCIETIES WITH GENDER EQUALITY ARE SHALLOW WISH FULFILLMENT, NOT LIKE GREAT WORKS OF FANTASY LITERATURE WHERE WOMEN ARE BASICALLY PILLOWS YOU CAN FUCK. EOWYN WHO? ALSO PATRICK WEEKES NEEDS TO SACK UP AND CHAIN HIS DAUGHTER TO THE SINK, I GUESS?????
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Feb 21, 2019 3:53:37 GMT
Full disclosure: I have no personal investment whatsoever in LGBT+ content or the lack thereof. But here's the thing — fair is fair (and foul is foul), and Bioware has consistently and without fail favored my demographic. Kicking up a storm because they dared to pay attention to someone else for a change strikes me as entitled and, truth be told, a little pathetic. And what have straight men actually lost, anyway? I count at least two love interests per game, same as always. Although some would disagree, I would say we haven't lost anything ... yet. But what if the straight romance options in DA4 were restricted to, say, Harding-style romances? Just a casual acknowledgement of a relationship and nothing further than that? Or what if they were dropped altogether?
Does that seem remotely likely to happen, though? Straight male player characters have had at least two options in every BioWare game with more than two romances in total. And those exceptions are the games where straight male PCs, straight female PCs and lesbian PCs get one each, like KoTOR and the NWN premium module Kingmaker. In those cases they got the same number as other PCs who were not gay men. Because it's gay male PCs who are the ones who consistently get the shaft. (Or, rather, they don't and it's a problem.)
There are no signs that BioWare are cutting romances for straight male player characters, just that they're adding them for other types of character. At least some of the time. SWTOR look ages to even add gay romances, the Mass Effect franchise is a godawful mess when it comes to m/m content and it's as recently as ME3 where it was entirely possible for a straight female Shepard to end up with no options at all. If you choose Ashley over Kaidan in ME1 and didn't romance Garrus, congratulations, you're screwed. (Or, rather, you're not.)
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Post by githcheater on Feb 21, 2019 4:07:48 GMT
But what if the straight romance options in DA4 were restricted to, say, Harding-style romances? Just a casual acknowledgement of a relationship and nothing further than that? Or what if they were dropped altogether?
Lace Harding would be good in my opinion ... certainly more appealing than prickly Cassandra, bland Josephine, or woozy Merrill.
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