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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 10:25:31 GMT
The oversights when it comes to Loot acquisition in Anthem are grotesque. There is no other way to put it. I want to show ways people have been exploiting Loot acquisition (maybe not everyone is familiar with these methods) and then talk why this is a problem.
Firstly, the infamous "Chest run" method. Yes, this exploit has been patched. It could only be practiced during the first week of the game. And I know some diehard Anthem defenders will say "the game was not officially out yet" or "the Day 1 Patch fixed this", but I have two things to tell them: a. according to EA, people who for some reason had access to the game starting from Feb 15th were playing the Full Game; and b. people who got their Masterworks and Legendaries this way did not lose them. Besides, I think we should once and for all drop EA's narrative and start calling that big patch as a "Week 2 patch".
But anyway, how did this exploit work? You simply acquired endgame loot from opening Freeplay regular chests (once you've hit Level 30). This is probably the greatest oversight in gaming when it comes to Loot that I am aware of. If this were a singleplayer game, it would be laughable. For a multiplayer game, this is unthinkable, beyond words. Angry Joe said (for other reasons, mind you) that "there is no way the devs played this game before release", and I think this Chest run exploit is definitely proof of that.
Nowadays, after the "Week 2 patch" there are other forms of loot exploit. Since you get a guaranteed Masterwork by completing a Stronghold or a Legendary Contract on Grandmaster 1 difficult, people found that quitting the session right at the end and rejoining right away gives them a chance for getting that guaranteed loot an infinite amount of times. Here is an example:
And here is another. The person responsible for the video even call this a "work around" for the Chest run nerf.
Well, so why is this wrong?
If it were possible to farm Ancient Legendaries in Diablo the same way, would it be wrong? If it were possible to farm Godrolls Legendaries in Destiny the same way, would it be wrong? If it were possible to farm Exotics in The Division the same way, would it be wrong? The thing is: in those games it is just not possible, it has never been, so this question does not even arise in the first place. If you want those items, you will have to earn them, you have to play your ass off. There is no other way. And that is the whole point of loot progression in a game that is heavily loot oriented.
Apparently Bioware is unable to make a game that is on par with its competitors when it comes to loot, its limitations are glaring. And I am pretty sure this is, once again, an oversight. There is no way the loot was intended to be acquired this way. Nevertheless, there is no room for oversights like this in a loot-heavy game. It kills the already short and very limited endgame Anthem has.
Bioware's past multiplayer games were full of holes and breaches which people exploited. Those games had smaller communities and for the most part Bioware could get away without fixing their shortcomings. Anthem, however, is supposed to be a huge, tripple A multiplayer game whose community is much larger. Bioware needs to step up their game.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Feb 27, 2019 10:58:15 GMT
Apparently Bioware is unable to make a game that is on par with its competitors when it comes to loot, its limitations are glaring. And I am pretty sure this is, once again, an oversight. There is no way the loot was intended to be acquired this way. Nevertheless, there is no room for oversights like this in a loot-heavy game. It kills the already short and very limited endgame Anthem has. I can only come up with two possible explanations here: 1) Loot was never intended to be acquired through gameplay - there was a different system in place that was hastily replaced with what we got now, possibly in the wake of the Battlefront 2 lootbox disaster. 2) Anthem started as a very different game in 2012 and was recently reworked as a loot-shooter. It doesn't look and feel like something that was in development with a well defined vision for six years.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 27, 2019 11:05:49 GMT
Wasn't there something similar in Andromeda with exit-rejoin a match to earn credits?
Anway, expect a good number of ppl exploiting the heck out of it as long as inscriptions are rolled on anything even if it does not make sense (physical dmg modifier on flamethrower e.g.). Is it wrong? Well, you could say ppl try to get some reasonable loot in a broken looter system. And for that right now you have to earn loot in numbers.
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Post by Pounce de León on Feb 27, 2019 11:08:57 GMT
I also hear that MW autocollect doesnt work reliably?
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 27, 2019 11:43:00 GMT
overreact much? It's not a pvp game.
Also, this will likely get patched. You act as if they design it to be exploited. Get over yourself. Stop spreading false rumours. It is an oversight or a bug. Destiny had the loot cave. People will ALWAYS find an exploit here or there.
And one more thing. What the eff do I care that xXNutGuzzler1969Xx has all perfect legendaries? Let him be in my game, I'm down with that. Easier for me, bruh. Apparently GM3 is difficult no matter your gear score, so again, it does not matter.
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Post by lennybusker on Feb 27, 2019 11:53:12 GMT
I also hear that MW autocollect doesnt work reliably? Correct.
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Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 27, 2019 13:13:25 GMT
overreact much? It's not a pvp game. Also, this will likely get patched. You act as if they design it to be exploited. Get over yourself. Stop spreading false rumours. It is an oversight or a bug. Destiny had the loot cave. People will ALWAYS find an exploit here or there. And one more thing. What the eff do I care that xXNutGuzzler1969Xx has all perfect legendaries? Let him be in my game, I'm down with that. Easier for me, bruh. Apparently GM3 is difficult no matter your gear score, so again, it does not matter. Yup and I dont think ancient legendaries are patricularly relevant either as they were introduced in patch 2.1.2 for RoS. Not only the hype is real, the hyperbole as well. No chest expoits in the Division huh. Anyway, Anthem could use a PTR/PTS.
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Post by hawkspian on Feb 27, 2019 13:22:06 GMT
Speaking of loot, has anyone come across MW support gear yet? Just got MW storm but the purple support gear is triggering me. Haven't seen one ever, not even in videos on YouTube.
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Post by saandrig on Feb 27, 2019 13:32:31 GMT
Speaking of loot, has anyone come across MW support gear yet? Just got MW storm but the purple support gear is triggering me. Haven't seen one ever, not even in videos on YouTube. There is none yet. Stick with the epics.
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Post by hawkspian on Feb 27, 2019 13:39:48 GMT
Speaking of loot, has anyone come across MW support gear yet? Just got MW storm but the purple support gear is triggering me. Haven't seen one ever, not even in videos on YouTube. There is none yet. Stick with the epics. I wonder why. That pretty lame leaving one out like that. It makes no sense and seems sloppy and unfinished.
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Post by SofaJockey on Feb 27, 2019 13:45:13 GMT
Why would a temporary exploit affect anyone else?
With no PVP, the only impact is I might find they are an OP player if I meet them in a GM-whatever mission.
And as they've beaten the game in 3 days and borked the system to get a full set of Legendaries in 2 more, they'll be bored and on to another game by the end of the week.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 27, 2019 14:33:15 GMT
You act as if they design it to be exploited No, he's acting like Bioware missed exploits that have appeared in past games and would have been obvious to anyone designing a looter shooter. One loot cave? Fine, no problem, it happens. The entire freeplay chest system is broken in a predictable way? It's more than fair to be less forgiving of that.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 14:48:33 GMT
overreact much? It's not a pvp game. Also, this will likely get patched. You act as if they design it to be exploited. Get over yourself. Stop spreading false rumours. It is an oversight or a bug. Destiny had the loot cave. People will ALWAYS find an exploit here or there. And one more thing. What the eff do I care that xXNutGuzzler1969Xx has all perfect legendaries? Let him be in my game, I'm down with that. Easier for me, bruh. Apparently GM3 is difficult no matter your gear score, so again, it does not matter. It is not a pvp game, that is right. Does that fact justity the most broken loot ever seen on a looter shooter? I don't know. Back in 2012 the rampant cheating in Mass Effect 3 multiplayer was justified by the fact that it was a co-op game. Same story with Inquistion's Multiplayer and Andromeda's Multiplayer. Now here we are, in 2019, using the same excuse for Bioware biggest multiplayer endeavor as we used on their smallest multiplayer endeavor 7 years ago. I find that worrisome to say the least. But if that is ok with you, fair enough. As for Destiny's treasure loot caves, do you know what people got out of those caves? A bunch of greens and blues to be dismantled. Maybe one purple every now and then, but definetely not a maxed level one, let alone a decent rolled one. Can you tell me one triple A looter game in which at any point I could get 7 maximum level upper tier items in 10 minutes? And finally, this thread is not about your friend (whom I don't know nor care about) or others who exploit chest runs or whaveter other means they can find to get endgame gear with minimal to zero effort. This thread is about Bioware's inability to cover exploitable breaches in their games, particularly now that they have a multiplayer game at the big stage. Patching a week later or a month later is not good enough. These are issues that in any other title competing with Anthem do not exist at the same level, if at all.
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Post by Innocent Bystander on Feb 27, 2019 14:58:53 GMT
Why would a temporary exploit affect anyone else? With no PVP, the only impact is I might find they are an OP player if I meet them in a GM-whatever mission. And as they've beaten the game in 3 days and borked the system to get a full set of Legendaries in 2 more, they'll be bored and on to another game by the end of the week. Yesterday, first legendary contract had Find Runes as first objective, leaving mission area message while traveling to second objective (it does this every time with this objective after last patch), getting teleported back. Unable to complete, restarting contract doesn't help, it gives the same objective. Had to restart Anthem. Twice.
Today, first legendary contract, destroy 6 Dominion beacon whatever thingies. Only there were 5 of them (happens way too often). Restart Anthem, just in case.
When I move to other games it will be something else than being bored, hint above.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Feb 27, 2019 15:14:49 GMT
Why would a temporary exploit affect anyone else? With no PVP, the only impact is I might find they are an OP player if I meet them in a GM-whatever mission. And as they've beaten the game in 3 days and borked the system to get a full set of Legendaries in 2 more, they'll be bored and on to another game by the end of the week. There is the part with bragging rights in beating the "raid" or whatever first in the World. Just like all the botters at the top of the leaderboards in Diablo etc. Until the banwave hits at the end of season that is.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 27, 2019 15:18:38 GMT
There is none yet. Stick with the epics. I wonder why. That pretty lame leaving one out like that. It makes no sense and seems sloppy and unfinished. Because they ran out of time to design/implement them.
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Post by PillarBiter on Feb 27, 2019 15:26:16 GMT
overreact much? It's not a pvp game. Also, this will likely get patched. You act as if they design it to be exploited. Get over yourself. Stop spreading false rumours. It is an oversight or a bug. Destiny had the loot cave. People will ALWAYS find an exploit here or there. And one more thing. What the eff do I care that xXNutGuzzler1969Xx has all perfect legendaries? Let him be in my game, I'm down with that. Easier for me, bruh. Apparently GM3 is difficult no matter your gear score, so again, it does not matter. Does that fact justity the most broken loot ever seen on a looter shooter? I don't know. Well... I suppose at least that answers my "ovverreact much?" question.
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Post by shinobiwan on Feb 27, 2019 15:31:16 GMT
Does that fact justity the most broken loot ever seen on a looter shooter? I don't know. Well... I suppose at least that answers my "ovverreact much?" question. Not really - the system is worse than even Diablo 3 loot 1.0, which caused one of the most massive backlashes in gaming history.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 16:13:02 GMT
Not really - the system is worse than even Diablo 3 loot 1.0, which caused one of the most massive backlashes in gaming history. Diablo is a looter, but not a shooter
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Post by biggydx on Feb 27, 2019 16:15:27 GMT
Ideally, you want there to not be exploits, but these things can happen simply because of how savvy players are.
Getting Masterworks and Legendaries from loot chests is the equivalent of Destinys Loot Cave.
In Destiny 1, when the Taken King launched and introduced Three of Coins, people found a way to exploit that consumable for increased exotic drops. They (and yes, I'd even include myself) would pop a three of coins, go to The Scourge of Winter mission, get to the final boss, kill him, he'd drop exotic engrams, and before the mission ended you would kill yourself to repeat the process. You could literally get every world drop exotic in the game in less than an hour
Even when Forsaken launched for Destiny 2, players were able to exploit some pathing and clipping issues in the Dreaming City to access raid loot before the raid released. Something like that can have a tangible impact on world first raid runs.
In Borderlands 2, those Golden keys you could use in order to get a random loot item, could be exploited by switching accounts and keeping the same amount of keys. There was also modding in that game, which meant that people could hand you weapons and gear that were severely overpowered.
I also wouldn't be surprised if there were exploits in The Division or Diablo 3 at some point.
Yes, better testing could have found some of these issues (maybe). But in most cases, it doesn't. Players will always find a way to break your game. That's just how gaming goes. Best you can do is try to fix it before it gets worse.
Edit: I also forget the exploit you could do in Borderlands General Knoxx DLC, where you could glitch into his armory and take as much time as you wanted in getting all the loot.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 16:15:33 GMT
Does that fact justity the most broken loot ever seen on a looter shooter? I don't know. Well... I suppose at least that answers my "ovverreact much?" question. Oh really, do you know any other looter shooter in which loot farming can be exploited further than Anthem? Please tell me. I am eager know where else I can get 7 maximum level high-tier items in 10 minutes while having no gear worth speaking of while farming.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 16:29:56 GMT
Getting Masterworks and Legendaries from loot chests is the equivalent of Destinys Loot Cave. Have you ever gotten a maximum level Legendary or Exotic by farming loot caves, while having no gear worth speaking of? In Destiny 1, when the Taken King launched and introduced Three of Coins, people found a way to exploit that consumable for increased exotic drops. They (and yes, I'd even include myself) would pop a three of coins, go to The Scourge of Winter mission, get to the final boss, kill him, he'd drop exotic engrams, and before the mission ended you would kill yourself to repeat the process. You and your team have to clear one entire raid (which requires everyone to be decently geared up) to get your exotics in the very end once. Can you keep coming back to the final boss and killing it over and over, once per minute, for an infinite number of times and get your exotics each time? If no, then that is not akin to Anthem whatsoever. Even when Forsaken launched for Destiny 2, players were able to exploit some pathing and clipping issues in the Dreaming City to access raid loot before the raid released. Something like that can have a tangible impact on world first raid runs. That was a bug, indeed. But that gave the player 1 non maximum level, non masterworked, non curated rolled purple item which had no signicant impact in gear upgrade. Believe me, if that was what we saw in Anthem, we would not be having this conversation. In Borderlands 2, those Golden keys you could use in order to get a random loot item, could be exploited by switching accounts and keeping the same amount of keys. There was also modding in that game, which meant that people could hand you weapons and gear that were severely overpowered. I have nothing against friends giving you better gear. In fact, I like the idea of trading items, for all looter games. As for the Golden keys in Borderlands, could you get 7 maximum level gear in 10 minutes? I am pretty sure you could not. Borderlands had exploitable breaches. That is why I didn't mention in my original thread. That being said, Borderlands' issues were nowhere as flawed as Anthem's.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 16:33:40 GMT
Why would a temporary exploit affect anyone else? With no PVP, the only impact is I might find they are an OP player if I meet them in a GM-whatever mission. And as they've beaten the game in 3 days and borked the system to get a full set of Legendaries in 2 more, they'll be bored and on to another game by the end of the week. It is not temporary. I recommend you reading my original post before coming to conclusions, or if anything watching the videos. There are two videos showing ongoing and non-patched exploits. As for not being PVP, this is the fourth Bioware multiplayer game in which we are using this excuse to condone exploiting. I think it is about time for a change.
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Post by biggydx on Feb 27, 2019 16:42:33 GMT
You and your team have to clear one entire raid (which requires everyone to be decently geared up) to get your exotics in the very end once. Can you keep coming back to the final boss and killing it over and over, once per minute, for an infinite number of times? Scourge of Winter was a vanilla D1 story mission. And yes, you could farm the boss for exotics every minute, and yes, you could do it an infinite number of times. When you killed yourself, it would send you to a checkpoint that was literally before the boss encounter. The boss was not hard to take down either. In addition, exotics would always grant you can increase in your light level (up to a set limit). You might be confusing it with the Scourge of the Past raid; in Black Armory (Destiny 2). I wouldn't have contentions with your argument if you were talking about the lack of playtesting for loot tables, bugs, connectivity issues, etc. Those are things that should have been ironed out after all this time they've had developing the game. But the idea that this exploit (if just getting loot from a stronghold chest and leaving can be called that) is the worst example in loot gaming, is just hyperbolic to me.
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Post by spacev3gan on Feb 27, 2019 16:55:51 GMT
You and your team have to clear one entire raid (which requires everyone to be decently geared up) to get your exotics in the very end once. Can you keep coming back to the final boss and killing it over and over, once per minute, for an infinite number of times? Scourge of Winter was a vanilla D1 story mission. And yes, you could farm the boss for exotics every minute, and yes, you could do it an infinite number of times. When you killed yourself, it would send you to a checkpoint that was literally before the boss encounter. The boss was not hard to take down either. In addition, exotics would always grant you can increase in your light level (up to a set limit). I wouldn't have contentions with your argument if you were talking about the lack of playtesting for loot tables, bugs, connectivity issues, etc. Those are things that should have been ironed out after all this time they've had developing the game. But the idea that this exploit (if just getting loot from a stronghold chest and leaving can be called that) is the worst example in loot gaming, is just hyperbolic to me. Farming for exotics by having a RNG change of one dropping each time you kill the boss is one thing. Getting a guaranteed one per time you killed the boss is another. I suggest you watching the third video I posted on my original post. Also, whatever you get in Anthem when it comes to Masterworked/Legendaries (past level 30) is maximum level by default. It is not an incremental power improvement (like an exotic in Destiny). In Destiny, if you have a low gear score overall and get an exotic, it won't be much higher than what you already have. In Anthem, if you get Masterworked/Exotics at the same conditions, they will be 45/47 by default. That worsens the impact of loot exploiting in Anthem. So yeah, I don't think Anthem and Destiny are comparable at all when it comes to the breaches each game give for exploits. As for the "worst example in loot gaming", I was referring to the (now patched) Freeplay chest runs. That was abhorrent and beyond anything I have ever seen in a triple A multiplayer gaming. What we have in Anthem now though, despite being pretty bad and almost as exploitative when it comes to the end result, still requires quite a bit more than walking around and opening chests.
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