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Post by lennybusker on Mar 2, 2019 2:36:12 GMT
Wait, did you just list Liam as one of the best human characters by BopWare? Seriously? Have you played his loyalty mission? Mr. "and one time in Crisis Response..." with all his really strange interactions with just about everyone around him is almost the low point of BioWare's history for me. Not even a comparison to someone like Kaiden, ME1 Ashley, Morrigan or Cullin. But to each their own, I guess. Well, I hated him, but that might just be because BioWare managed to write a character that so well emulates the sort of person I find insufferable in real life. Similar things have been said about Sera, who I liked. See that's exactly where Bioware has gone wrong with Andromeda and Anthem. Before in the companion based games, there might have been a qUiRkY companion, but you could leave them at home, or in the best case scenario tell them to completely fuck off. Hate Sera? Banish her! And as far as the protagonist being a neverending font of banter, that was largely up to you as well - don't like Snarky Hawke, don't pick the snarky options. But now in Andromeda and Anthem they have blanket applied that attitude to everyone, and there's no fucking escaping it.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Mar 2, 2019 3:03:12 GMT
I don't agree. I like most of the NPCs in Fort Tarsis, there is just a few weird like that guy (Neeson i guess) who is always spreading baseless rumors. But then there is a Brin, Mathias, Max, Haluk for every few that i find annoying.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 2, 2019 9:15:44 GMT
Vortex13 , Oh I agree Dax had some cringey lines during the missions. But my son watches me play and was cracking up...so is this quippy humor just that popular with gen z? I have to take it with a grain salt because I'm old and cranky (over 30) and have been playing Bioware games since Origins and ME1. They had always snappy dialogue back then. But it was more Buffy like, with a lot of snarky humor and cynicism...you know, stuff that appeals to older millennials and gen x. It might be a generational thing (30 club myself), but I don't know it feels more like a dip in overall writing quality instead of just appealing to the younger generation (especially with Dax). After all, it's asier to write a character who's 'quirky' and babbles incoherent nonsense over the radio like a moron than actually try and flesh out the character; but that could me being cranky. Needless to say I really didn't like Dax I can't recall being alll doom and gloom sourpuss when I was 30. Now at 50+ I am still able to have fun and laugh. I haven't noticed the dip in writing either. Whatever that really is? As soon as I "met" Rythe though I just new they wrote her specifically to troll alll the "too cringey for me" people out there.
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Post by nanotm on Mar 2, 2019 9:22:24 GMT
I don't agree. I like most of the NPCs in Fort Tarsis, there is just a few weird like that guy (Neeson i guess) who is always spreading baseless rumors. But then there is a Brin, Mathias, Max, Haluk for every few that i find annoying. neeson is the conrad of this game, his entire purpose is too be annoying
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 2, 2019 9:25:55 GMT
This topic is always amusing. I am under 30. I typically enjoy the Marvel movie humor...in the marvel movies. I also enjoyed Citadel, but that was basically because it was like emotional therapy for me, to soothe the most fierce anger and resentment towards the franchise. It was the emotinal goodbye I needed from Mass Effect, that was utterly denied to me. In any other situation I would have hated Citadel probably.
But even now, I give Citadel a pass, because Bioware "earned" that cheese. THey earned it through 5 years of an emotional roller coster of a journey. I can tolerate overly cheesy fan service crap like Citadel at the end of a franchise if a developer "earns" it through years of quality work. DAI thankfully didn't cross the threshhold of just straight goofy. It was in check by and large, although I must confess, I greatly missed the cynical sarcasm of the previous DA titles.
Andromeda was just Citadel DLC, put into an entire game. It is also, for all intents and purposes a new franchise, because ME was not suppose to have a sequal. Andromeda did not earn that cheese. It hadn't earned anything, instead it was just Goofball Ryder and the Bland Brigade flying around in "uncharted" space in an extreamly dangerous situation, acting like their a certain group of friends cruising down the road in the damn Mystery Machine. My suspension of disbelief was never truly established, as the whole game was ridiculous from Minute One.
Anthem strikes a 60/40 balance in favor of the cheese, which is not ideal for me, but it IS a T rated game so I can let that go this time. Anthem has some serious moments for sure, just enough to not lose my interest. But I hope at least some members of the Dragon Age team realize a lot of people do not enjoy the cheese, or only enjoy it in very particular situations. I hope they bring back at least some of that amazing cynical sarcasm that helped make Dragon Age so famous to begin with.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Mar 2, 2019 9:35:08 GMT
I don't agree. I like most of the NPCs in Fort Tarsis, there is just a few weird like that guy (Neeson i guess) who is always spreading baseless rumors. But then there is a Brin, Mathias, Max, Haluk for every few that i find annoying. neeson is the conrad of this game, his entire purpose is too be annoying He gives you spoilers for future events if you bother listening to him. Warns you about some stuff that later turns true. I think he is Bioware's "take that" at people that spoil the stories for other players
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 2, 2019 14:36:46 GMT
neeson is the conrad of this game, his entire purpose is too be annoying He gives you spoilers for future events if you bother listening to him. Warns you about some stuff that later turns true. I think he is Bioware's "take that" at people that spoil the stories for other players I did notice that...ironic isen't it? The most annoying character is the next Lord Foreshadow.
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Post by Shinobu on Mar 2, 2019 14:42:36 GMT
Quippy dialogue has been a staple of Bioware games for years. If you're enjoying it less these days maybe it's because your tastes are changing.
"So, the painted elf assaults helpless statuary with its feces?!" "If given sufficient cause, why not?"
"I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Gray Wardens." "I thought you looked familiar. "Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain." "You don't say." "I'm terribly broken up over it." "Well, thank you kindly for informing me."
BARK "I'm so glad you're pleased." BARK "It really is something to find such enthusiasm in one's companions!" BARK "I agree: go team! Hurrah!"
Did you forget we could try to have the Dog duel Loghain at the Landsmeet?
I'm one of the older people on this board and I find it interesting that I'm hearing "oh, back in my day, Bioware games were good! They didn't have this new-fangled quippery!" How's the gout, by the way? Want to discuss your latest colonoscopy results?
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 2, 2019 14:58:32 GMT
I'm not sure i'm convinced that is the case, mainly because of the writing itself is only really on par in few instances to that "believable" scale. It's easy to look at the caricatures of Sayrna and the Janitor and all that, but their ratio is pretty low overall in the general game. Andromeda gets flak for the relatively young cast, but they were actually "real" people in how they acted. I am maybe going out on a limb here, but Cora and Liam are two of the best human characters BioWare has ever written because they are believable in their moods and dispositions, their shortcomings and general faults, all of that running the gamut that makes them hard to pin down as one "quirk". Most of the tempest crew fit that bill, actually, they didn't come off as caricatures outside of cherry picking lines. Yes, I agree that they are more "real" compared to the ridiculously badass crew of the trilogy. But... BUT - the problem for me is that while they may be about as stupid and flawed as your average Joe, this is a HORRIBLE thing for a heroic videogame story. The Andromeda crew was BORING and so irrational and stupid that it defies all logic why they were picked for that mission. You know, we have professions in real life for people who have their shit together because they HAVE TO. You don't pick spineless lunatics to command troops in real life either. You pick somebody who doesn't fall apart when things go wrong.
The entire idea of sending a total IDIOT like Liam into space to colonize is just ludicrous. I stay clear of such disaster people in real life. Don't need them to ruin my gaming experience either. Liam was the reason I almost quit on the first mission. Things got a lot better when I kicked him from my squad. I actually had fun on Eos for a while. Sadly that positive momentum didn't last.
They were all teenage level of stupid and whiney and insecure to me. Whoever did the psych screening for any of them must have been high. Or there was no screening. The only scenario that makes sense to me is that they decided to rid the Milky Way of the most insufferable idiots. Shoot them into space and hope they all die... That "revolt" on the Nexus, omg. Nobody who was properly briefed would be this irrational. Come on! You pick people who can handle the task you assign them. It's like they picked them off the street. They reacted like an uneducated mob. Just abysmal writing for contrived drama.
The only two characters who weren't complete morons were Drack and Vetra. I liked them. Everything else about the crew was so cringe-worthy and the romances just unbearably icing on the cringe cake. Like I'm back in high school.
I guess it is as stated by others in this thread. Bioware is aiming for socially awkward teenagers now. So that they can relate to these insecure characters. Because relatable self-insert characters are all the rage now apparently. Ugh. UGH. I'm 34 years old. I already found Bioware's virgin obsession questionable back in the day but otherwise their characters were cool. People to admire. Not a bunch of clueless kids who ALL start crying they want to go back home.
JESUS.
Bioware has forgotten how to write believable scenarios with the right balance of serious and light-hearted. You sprinkle a grim story with some humor. NOT ruin a grim story of naked survival by having everyone crack jokes 24/7. That's not how you get me to take the writing seriously. If the characters don't take anything seriously, why should I? Andromeda was so tone deaf it hurt.
I do like Marvel humor but New Bioware is NOT good at imitating it. I do NOT want an entire game to feel like the Citadel DLC (which I loved because it was earned, a silly farewell gift). DAI had amazing banter. Bioware's writing fell of a cliff with Andromeda. What little I've seen of Anthem's writing in videos reminds me more of Andromeda than DAI. I'll reserve judgment until I've watched the entire 3h long story compilation. I thought the intro was actually pretty decent. I like Owen. That one male gossip NPC though? That was very cringe worthy and not funny at all. I hope Anthem is not full of Conrad Verners... one was about as many as any game can handle...
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Post by smilesja on Mar 2, 2019 15:20:58 GMT
Quippy dialogue has been a staple of Bioware games for years. If you're enjoying it less these days maybe it's because your tastes are changing.
"So, the painted elf assaults helpless statuary with its feces?!" "If given sufficient cause, why not?"
"I was one of the Crows you hired to kill the Gray Wardens." "I thought you looked familiar. "Well, I just wanted to report that I failed my mission, Loghain." "You don't say." "I'm terribly broken up over it." "Well, thank you kindly for informing me."
BARK "I'm so glad you're pleased." BARK "It really is something to find such enthusiasm in one's companions!" BARK "I agree: go team! Hurrah!"
Did you forget we could try to have the Dog duel Loghain at the Landsmeet?
I'm one of the older people on this board and I find it interesting that I'm hearing "oh, back in my day, Bioware games were good! They didn't have this new-fangled quippery!" How's the gout, by the way? Want to discuss your latest colonoscopy results? I actually remember a time when people criticized DA2 for having too much humor.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 2, 2019 16:40:10 GMT
I think they are overall fun and interesting, the deeper you get into them. There are a few duds that don't grab me, but that's normal for me. The emails you get from various NPCs also help to flesh them out a little better, so if you aren't taking the time to read through those, you might miss out a little. Bioware has gotten progressively more...quippy with their banter/writing, that does feel sort of Marvel like, true. I just figured it was because they are mostly aiming for a younger audience demographic now, which I guess I fall out of. The game is rated Teen (I think?), so I wasn't expecting to see anything too dark or gritty around town. The NPC interactions are mostly there to add interest and to flesh out the world and lore, IMO. I also feel like some of the humor is going for intentional camp or satire at times. Like lines sort of poking light fun at some of the romantic subplots and tropes Bioware is known for. I think this has something to do with Cathleen Rootseart. She's provided the narrative direction for both Andromeda and Anthem. Her style of storytelling doesn't fit the soap opera-esque nature of BioWare typical (albeit older) story telling.
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N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
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Post by bshep on Mar 2, 2019 17:22:03 GMT
I don't agree. I like most of the NPCs in Fort Tarsis, there is just a few weird like that guy (Neeson i guess) who is always spreading baseless rumors. But then there is a Brin, Mathias, Max, Haluk for every few that i find annoying. neeson is the conrad of this game, his entire purpose is too be annoying Yeah i got that feeling. neeson is the conrad of this game, his entire purpose is too be annoying He gives you spoilers for future events if you bother listening to him. Warns you about some stuff that later turns true. I think he is Bioware's "take that" at people that spoil the stories for other players Wait what? Gonna have to pay extra attention to what he says now.
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N3
Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 2, 2019 19:42:31 GMT
I think they are overall fun and interesting, the deeper you get into them. There are a few duds that don't grab me, but that's normal for me. The emails you get from various NPCs also help to flesh them out a little better, so if you aren't taking the time to read through those, you might miss out a little. Bioware has gotten progressively more...quippy with their banter/writing, that does feel sort of Marvel like, true. I just figured it was because they are mostly aiming for a younger audience demographic now, which I guess I fall out of. The game is rated Teen (I think?), so I wasn't expecting to see anything too dark or gritty around town. The NPC interactions are mostly there to add interest and to flesh out the world and lore, IMO. I also feel like some of the humor is going for intentional camp or satire at times. Like lines sort of poking light fun at some of the romantic subplots and tropes Bioware is known for. I think this has something to do with Cathleen Rootseart. She's provided the narrative direction for both Andromeda and Anthem. Her style of storytelling doesn't fit the soap opera-esque nature of BioWare typical (albeit older) story telling. And then my perceptions of DA's future suddenly changed for the better. But seriously: I think her skills may be better put to use as a character writer: she wrote Jaal in Andromeda, and Kaidan in ME3 (IIRC). FLASH-EDIT: Redundant word flushed down the drain.
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Post by Terminator Force on Mar 2, 2019 19:58:30 GMT
Wait, did you just list Liam as one of the best human characters by BopWare? Seriously? Have you played his loyalty mission? Mr. "and one time in Crisis Response..." with all his really strange interactions with just about everyone around him is almost the low point of BioWare's history for me. Not even a comparison to someone like Kaiden, ME1 Ashley, Morrigan or Cullin. But to each their own, I guess. Yeah Liam was written pretty realistic to me. We talking most realistic characters? Conrad Verner, definitely. Everyone I run into always enthusiastic to meet me and want my autograph. Or was it the other way around?
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Post by river82 on Mar 2, 2019 20:38:21 GMT
Anthem strikes a 60/40 balance in favor of the cheese, which is not ideal for me, but it IS a T rated game so I can let that go this time. Anthem has some serious moments for sure, just enough to not lose my interest. But I hope at least some members of the Dragon Age team realize a lot of people do not enjoy the cheese, or only enjoy it in very particular situations. I hope they bring back at least some of that amazing cynical sarcasm that helped make Dragon Age so famous to begin with. My rule of thumb tends to be that the age of the protagonist generally tends to reflect the age of the story's intended audience. So Shepard was a mature protagonist aimed at a mature audience, and Ryder was a much younger protagonist which (imo) was aimed at a much younger audience. It's hard to peg the intended audience the same way in Anthem though, because it's almost like the protagonist is supposed to be this invisible person. But imagine if Dragon Age 4 has a goofy tone with a goofy teenage protagonist ... in Tevinter of all places. Ugh.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
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Post by bshep on Mar 2, 2019 20:58:16 GMT
I tend to picture the Freelancer in a middle term. He looks to be between age 25-30 to me, young but not a newbie like the Ryder siblings were.
And you are kinda of a personality in Fort Tarsis, infamous for being one of the few survivors from the heart of rage mission then later becoming famous as the Fort population expand.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 2, 2019 23:01:26 GMT
I'm not sure i'm convinced that is the case, mainly because of the writing itself is only really on par in few instances to that "believable" scale. It's easy to look at the caricatures of Sayrna and the Janitor and all that, but their ratio is pretty low overall in the general game. Andromeda gets flak for the relatively young cast, but they were actually "real" people in how they acted. I am maybe going out on a limb here, but Cora and Liam are two of the best human characters BioWare has ever written because they are believable in their moods and dispositions, their shortcomings and general faults, all of that running the gamut that makes them hard to pin down as one "quirk". Most of the tempest crew fit that bill, actually, they didn't come off as caricatures outside of cherry picking lines. Yes, I agree that they are more "real" compared to the ridiculously badass crew of the trilogy. But... BUT - the problem for me is that while they may be about as stupid and flawed as your average Joe, this is a HORRIBLE thing for a heroic videogame story. The Andromeda crew was BORING and so irrational and stupid that it defies all logic why they were picked for that mission. You know, we have professions in real life for people who have their shit together because they HAVE TO. You don't pick spineless lunatics to command troops in real life either. You pick somebody who doesn't fall apart when things go wrong.
The entire idea of sending a total IDIOT like Liam into space to colonize is just ludicrous. I stay clear of such disaster people in real life. Don't need them to ruin my gaming experience either. Liam was the reason I almost quit on the first mission. Things got a lot better when I kicked him from my squad. I actually had fun on Eos for a while. Sadly that positive momentum didn't last.
They were all teenage level of stupid and whiney and insecure to me. Whoever did the psych screening for any of them must have been high. Or there was no screening. The only scenario that makes sense to me is that they decided to rid the Milky Way of the most insufferable idiots. Shoot them into space and hope they all die... That "revolt" on the Nexus, omg. Nobody who was properly briefed would be this irrational. Come on! You pick people who can handle the task you assign them. It's like they picked them off the street. They reacted like an uneducated mob. Just abysmal writing for contrived drama.
The only two characters who weren't complete morons were Drack and Vetra. I liked them. Everything else about the crew was so cringe-worthy and the romances just unbearably icing on the cringe cake. Like I'm back in high school.
I guess it is as stated by others in this thread. Bioware is aiming for socially awkward teenagers now. So that they can relate to these insecure characters. Because relatable self-insert characters are all the rage now apparently. Ugh. UGH. I'm 34 years old. I already found Bioware's virgin obsession questionable back in the day but otherwise their characters were cool. People to admire. Not a bunch of clueless kids who ALL start crying they want to go back home.
JESUS.
Bioware has forgotten how to write believable scenarios with the right balance of serious and light-hearted. You sprinkle a grim story with some humor. NOT ruin a grim story of naked survival by having everyone crack jokes 24/7. That's not how you get me to take the writing seriously. If the characters don't take anything seriously, why should I? Andromeda was so tone deaf it hurt.
I do like Marvel humor but New Bioware is NOT good at imitating it. I do NOT want an entire game to feel like the Citadel DLC (which I loved because it was earned, a silly farewell gift). DAI had amazing banter. Bioware's writing fell of a cliff with Andromeda. What little I've seen of Anthem's writing in videos reminds me more of Andromeda than DAI. I'll reserve judgment until I've watched the entire 3h long story compilation. I thought the intro was actually pretty decent. I like Owen. That one male gossip NPC though? That was very cringe worthy and not funny at all. I hope Anthem is not full of Conrad Verners... one was about as many as any game can handle...
That.
Also, maybe a badass crew from MET is unrealistic, but if your protagonists are aiming at saving the galaxy, they better not be a group of average joe's. People like Ryder siblings don't get to be leaders of any competent team, and definitely not of "all our lives depend on you" one. Fuckups like Liam don't become crisis response specialists and something similar can be said about whatever Peebee were supposed to be.
One of the unfortunate things about MEA's writing is that it made SAM the only competent entity in the whole game. It's the sole reason why Ryder is capable in combat, able to solve any of the problems he/she encounters etc. Ryder's don't grow as characters, there isn't a single thing that changes about them until the very end when Ryder learns how to interact with remnant consoles (without any explanation as to why is that even possible).
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Post by nanotm on Mar 2, 2019 23:07:08 GMT
I tend to picture the Freelancer in a middle term. He looks to be between age 25-30 to me, young but not a newbie like the Ryder siblings were. And you are kinda of a personality in Fort Tarsis, infamous for being one of the few survivors from the heart of rage mission then later becoming famous as the Fort population expand. um the Ryder twins were supposedly around late 20's based on their experiences prior to going into the freezer, both of them spent at least 5 years after their 3yr compulsory military stint as some sort of special operator, even if you let them leave education at 18 (unlikely since they both have advanced degrees so more likely didnt leave education until at least 20) there still at least 26... and thats not exactly young... no the thing is they made them appear immature despite the fact both of them had been part of the alliance military before moving into civilian spec ops programs they also spent at least a year training with the pathfinder teams meaning they were just miss portrayed as youngsters in the hopes of generating more players.... and to be fair I couldn't really care less about it so long as they were consistent, Shep had a hard life before he joined the alliance military then he had an even harder life as he progressed up the ranks to become a sole survivor and an N7, it wasn't until he became a Spector that things got interesting for him and it was only advanced medicine that really kept that guy moving (and you can use the advanced genetic techniques as the reason for why the Ryder twins look a decade younger than they are) Shep also seems to age backwards as you go from the first to the 3rd game anthem who cares about the protags age you never see them out of the suit anyway, they could be 16 for all the difference it makes to using the suit /
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 2, 2019 23:11:52 GMT
I tend to picture the Freelancer in a middle term. He looks to be between age 25-30 to me, young but not a newbie like the Ryder siblings were. And you are kinda of a personality in Fort Tarsis, infamous for being one of the few survivors from the heart of rage mission then later becoming famous as the Fort population expand. um the Ryder twins were supposedly around late 20's based on their experiences prior to going into the freezer, both of them spent at least 5 years after their 3yr compulsory military stint as some sort of special operator, even if you let them leave education at 18 (unlikely since they both have advanced degrees so more likely didnt leave education until at least 20) there still at least 26... and thats not exactly young... The Ryder twins are 22.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 3, 2019 2:51:02 GMT
I'm not sure i'm convinced that is the case, mainly because of the writing itself is only really on par in few instances to that "believable" scale. It's easy to look at the caricatures of Sayrna and the Janitor and all that, but their ratio is pretty low overall in the general game. Andromeda gets flak for the relatively young cast, but they were actually "real" people in how they acted. I am maybe going out on a limb here, but Cora and Liam are two of the best human characters BioWare has ever written because they are believable in their moods and dispositions, their shortcomings and general faults, all of that running the gamut that makes them hard to pin down as one "quirk". Most of the tempest crew fit that bill, actually, they didn't come off as caricatures outside of cherry picking lines. Yes, I agree that they are more "real" compared to the ridiculously badass crew of the trilogy. But... BUT - the problem for me is that while they may be about as stupid and flawed as your average Joe, this is a HORRIBLE thing for a heroic videogame story. The Andromeda crew was BORING and so irrational and stupid that it defies all logic why they were picked for that mission. You know, we have professions in real life for people who have their shit together because they HAVE TO. You don't pick spineless lunatics to command troops in real life either. You pick somebody who doesn't fall apart when things go wrong.
The entire idea of sending a total IDIOT like Liam into space to colonize is just ludicrous. I stay clear of such disaster people in real life. Don't need them to ruin my gaming experience either. Liam was the reason I almost quit on the first mission. Things got a lot better when I kicked him from my squad. I actually had fun on Eos for a while. Sadly that positive momentum didn't last.
They were all teenage level of stupid and whiney and insecure to me. Whoever did the psych screening for any of them must have been high. Or there was no screening. The only scenario that makes sense to me is that they decided to rid the Milky Way of the most insufferable idiots. Shoot them into space and hope they all die... That "revolt" on the Nexus, omg. Nobody who was properly briefed would be this irrational. Come on! You pick people who can handle the task you assign them. It's like they picked them off the street. They reacted like an uneducated mob. Just abysmal writing for contrived drama.
The only two characters who weren't complete morons were Drack and Vetra. I liked them. Everything else about the crew was so cringe-worthy and the romances just unbearably icing on the cringe cake. Like I'm back in high school.
I guess it is as stated by others in this thread. Bioware is aiming for socially awkward teenagers now. So that they can relate to these insecure characters. Because relatable self-insert characters are all the rage now apparently. Ugh. UGH. I'm 34 years old. I already found Bioware's virgin obsession questionable back in the day but otherwise their characters were cool. People to admire. Not a bunch of clueless kids who ALL start crying they want to go back home.
JESUS.
Bioware has forgotten how to write believable scenarios with the right balance of serious and light-hearted. You sprinkle a grim story with some humor. NOT ruin a grim story of naked survival by having everyone crack jokes 24/7. That's not how you get me to take the writing seriously. If the characters don't take anything seriously, why should I? Andromeda was so tone deaf it hurt.
I do like Marvel humor but New Bioware is NOT good at imitating it. I do NOT want an entire game to feel like the Citadel DLC (which I loved because it was earned, a silly farewell gift). DAI had amazing banter. Bioware's writing fell of a cliff with Andromeda. What little I've seen of Anthem's writing in videos reminds me more of Andromeda than DAI. I'll reserve judgment until I've watched the entire 3h long story compilation. I thought the intro was actually pretty decent. I like Owen. That one male gossip NPC though? That was very cringe worthy and not funny at all. I hope Anthem is not full of Conrad Verners... one was about as many as any game can handle...
Could not agree more.... ...please preach! media.giphy.com/media/FBzqZGthkW6KQ/giphy.gifThe writing was so juvenile and lacking depth and range.....i too only liked Drack and Vetra....dealing with everybody else i wanted to biotic charge myself out of the airlock.... Look at Shep's game when trying to bed Morinth....great writing and looks and feels natural... You made a comment about leaders?...Shep was one of the greatest...not some teenage crew that represented characters of the 70's mystery machine... You saw Shep's leadership....critical decisions that could have led to the deaths of the Quarians and you also saw the growth of Legion ALL in one cutscene....Bioware's writing has fallen off the map in spades and Andromeda was proof of that.....
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Post by biggydx on Mar 3, 2019 3:22:11 GMT
I think this has something to do with Cathleen Rootseart. She's provided the narrative direction for both Andromeda and Anthem. Her style of storytelling doesn't fit the soap opera-esque nature of BioWare typical (albeit older) story telling. And then my perceptions of DA's future suddenly changed for the better. But seriously: I think her skills may be better put to use as a character writer: she wrote Jaal in Andromeda, and Kaidan in ME3 (IIRC). FLASH-EDIT: Redundant word flushed down the drain. Yeah, I think that would probably be best. I get that "it takes a village," but having a role in the direction and tone of a franchise still has an impact. And yeah, even though I won't go far as to say I'm not concerned about Dragon Age, I do think Weekes will serve the story of DA much better than what we've seen with ME:A and Anthem. I think there are a few character stories in Anthem that are done well enough. Leyden's was the most interesting in my mind.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 3, 2019 7:25:52 GMT
Destiny 1 had characters?
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 3, 2019 8:25:59 GMT
I think this has something to do with Cathleen Rootseart. She's provided the narrative direction for both Andromeda and Anthem. Her style of storytelling doesn't fit the soap opera-esque nature of BioWare typical (albeit older) story telling. And then my perceptions of DA's future suddenly changed for the better. But seriously: I think her skills may be better put to use as a character writer: she wrote Jaal in Andromeda, and Kaidan in ME3 (IIRC). FLASH-EDIT: Redundant word flushed down the drain. That... is not good news for me at all. ME3 ruined Kaidan for me. Suddenly he turned into this crybaby who couldn't do his job anymore, wrapped up in his own insecurities instead of giving support to Shep who was desperately trying to save everyone from extinction. Kaidan in ME3 made me want to ditch his ass for Liara, sweet supportive and badass Liara. If you didn't romance him it was an even worse pity party. Jaal was bearable considering how cringe worthy the angaran care bears were... That said, certain writers wrote both my favorite and my least favorite characters. So it's always a gamble.
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Post by nanotm on Mar 3, 2019 9:45:48 GMT
um the Ryder twins were supposedly around late 20's based on their experiences prior to going into the freezer, both of them spent at least 5 years after their 3yr compulsory military stint as some sort of special operator, even if you let them leave education at 18 (unlikely since they both have advanced degrees so more likely didnt leave education until at least 20) there still at least 26... and thats not exactly young... The Ryder twins are 22. which proves that they didnt deconflict the backstory very well and if they made that kind of error on the main character(s) the rest had no hope....
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by mgsmsc on Mar 3, 2019 11:03:17 GMT
I'm not sure i'm convinced that is the case, mainly because of the writing itself is only really on par in few instances to that "believable" scale. It's easy to look at the caricatures of Sayrna and the Janitor and all that, but their ratio is pretty low overall in the general game. Andromeda gets flak for the relatively young cast, but they were actually "real" people in how they acted. I am maybe going out on a limb here, but Cora and Liam are two of the best human characters BioWare has ever written because they are believable in their moods and dispositions, their shortcomings and general faults, all of that running the gamut that makes them hard to pin down as one "quirk". Most of the tempest crew fit that bill, actually, they didn't come off as caricatures outside of cherry picking lines. Yes, I agree that they are more "real" compared to the ridiculously badass crew of the trilogy. But... BUT - the problem for me is that while they may be about as stupid and flawed as your average Joe, this is a HORRIBLE thing for a heroic videogame story. The Andromeda crew was BORING and so irrational and stupid that it defies all logic why they were picked for that mission. You know, we have professions in real life for people who have their shit together because they HAVE TO. You don't pick spineless lunatics to command troops in real life either. You pick somebody who doesn't fall apart when things go wrong.
The entire idea of sending a total IDIOT like Liam into space to colonize is just ludicrous. I stay clear of such disaster people in real life. Don't need them to ruin my gaming experience either. Liam was the reason I almost quit on the first mission. Things got a lot better when I kicked him from my squad. I actually had fun on Eos for a while. Sadly that positive momentum didn't last.
They were all teenage level of stupid and whiney and insecure to me. Whoever did the psych screening for any of them must have been high. Or there was no screening. The only scenario that makes sense to me is that they decided to rid the Milky Way of the most insufferable idiots. Shoot them into space and hope they all die... That "revolt" on the Nexus, omg. Nobody who was properly briefed would be this irrational. Come on! You pick people who can handle the task you assign them. It's like they picked them off the street. They reacted like an uneducated mob. Just abysmal writing for contrived drama.
The only two characters who weren't complete morons were Drack and Vetra. I liked them. Everything else about the crew was so cringe-worthy and the romances just unbearably icing on the cringe cake. Like I'm back in high school.
I guess it is as stated by others in this thread. Bioware is aiming for socially awkward teenagers now. So that they can relate to these insecure characters. Because relatable self-insert characters are all the rage now apparently. Ugh. UGH. I'm 34 years old. I already found Bioware's virgin obsession questionable back in the day but otherwise their characters were cool. People to admire. Not a bunch of clueless kids who ALL start crying they want to go back home.
JESUS.
Bioware has forgotten how to write believable scenarios with the right balance of serious and light-hearted. You sprinkle a grim story with some humor. NOT ruin a grim story of naked survival by having everyone crack jokes 24/7. That's not how you get me to take the writing seriously. If the characters don't take anything seriously, why should I? Andromeda was so tone deaf it hurt.
I do like Marvel humor but New Bioware is NOT good at imitating it. I do NOT want an entire game to feel like the Citadel DLC (which I loved because it was earned, a silly farewell gift). DAI had amazing banter. Bioware's writing fell of a cliff with Andromeda. What little I've seen of Anthem's writing in videos reminds me more of Andromeda than DAI. I'll reserve judgment until I've watched the entire 3h long story compilation. I thought the intro was actually pretty decent. I like Owen. That one male gossip NPC though? That was very cringe worthy and not funny at all. I hope Anthem is not full of Conrad Verners... one was about as many as any game can handle...
The thing that frustrates me most about Liam is that the underlying drives for his personal quest are side-lined. I feel that if they had concentrated on reaching out between factions and the risks of undermining the respective leaderships/procedures then those would have been firmer foundations for immersion in the story telling. Instead they attempted a laugh a minute type affair that after a few viewings still leaves me a bit confused. Its a shame, although Liam is not a character I like, his football match for Eos is one of the few bits in the game I found endearing, I just wish they had delivered a bit more emotion and power in his script.
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