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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 3, 2019 11:57:23 GMT
which proves that they didnt deconflict the backstory very well and if they made that kind of error on the main character(s) the rest had no hope.... Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 3, 2019 12:06:45 GMT
which proves that they didnt deconflict the backstory very well and if they made that kind of error on the main character(s) the rest had no hope.... Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all. Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 3, 2019 12:43:47 GMT
Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all. Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. This was my issue with it. They wouldn't have been like this at 22. At 22 I knew when to be serious and when to joke around. IIRC, both of the jobs they were working before they became pathfinders were assigned to them after they joined a military organization. They would have received training, been part of a command structure, etc. On Habitat 7, Liam says that Sara seems to know how to handle herself, and she says something that gives the impressions she's seen combat before. Scott was a security guard at what sounded to me like a military facility. Not to mention the pathfinder training they would have went through, which would have been a next man up, know everyone's job type of thing considering where they were going, The game portrays them like they're just seeing all of this for the first time. If they were going to make them like this, a better story would have been that Alec brought his family along, the children had been in schools their entire life, a were fresh out the academy/college. Alec takes one along to explore against his better judgement not knowing the Kett are out there, they get attacked and everything plays out the same. Pathfinder command is transferred to child, they're the only one who can pilot the ship, they have SAM to augment their combat abilities to make up for the lack of training. Then they would be seeing it all for the first time, with no sense of direction. Much better coming of age story.
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Post by nanotm on Mar 3, 2019 13:59:49 GMT
Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all. Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. um I think that only applies for officers, the grunts have seriously bad sense of self preservation (makes them good grunts) and thus are often joking about when its least appropriate, something about "fuck em if they cant take it" being the required defualt status to not go batshit insane with the horror show around you, those wiht the least ability to be inappropriate were the most likely to be affected mentally, propriety has a place and that can rarely be found in operational settings..... there were options to make it so they had both the necessary trg and yet had not experienced anything (deep freeze learning) but those were not used to make up for things instead they were just really poorly written, when sarah goes through the heart to heart phase with the various parts of the crew she identifies various things about her life prior to joining the mission to andromeda and the fact she went through 18mths of pathfinder trg having been to the military academy done 3yrs ROS and 5 years in some troubleshooting ops group for a corporation (you have to piece it together from the various covo's) all in all she has done more than a decade after finishing education and some of that time was in active combat... yet she's a shit show of ineptitude and barely manages the basics of a 1st yr. recruit... and thats when she isnt being overly deflating and morose when giving "inspirational chats" totally a bad script (and we wont even go into the whole wall eye but has computer in her brain side of things)
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 3, 2019 14:17:47 GMT
The games aren't being written for a younger audience. Young people aren't inherently dumber than older people.
The games are written for a dumber audience. Which, unfortunately, is us. Idiocracy has arrived full steam, and is visible here all the time.
DA2 was too cheesy, so many of you love that swill. There is a reason many people think of it as absolutely the worst DA game; I have never replayed it.
Replaying DAO now, sure the humor is there. It always has been. The quality has been on decline for years.
"Look, I have your fodder." That was clever.
Lol Liam is realistic; now that's a generational gap. I have nothing.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 3, 2019 14:31:36 GMT
Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. there were options to make it so they had both the necessary trg and yet had not experienced anything (deep freeze learning) but those were not used to make up for things instead they were just really poorly written, when sarah goes through the heart to heart phase with the various parts of the crew she identifies various things about her life prior to joining the mission to andromeda and the fact she went through 18mths of pathfinder trg having been to the military academy done 3yrs ROS and 5 years in some troubleshooting ops group for a corporation (you have to piece it together from the various covo's) all in all she has done more than a decade after finishing education and some of that time was in active combat... This is another part where they just lost me. Based on the ME timeline, she's 22. She did 18 months of Pathfinder training, which means she was 20 when she started that. When did she do all of this other stuff she talks about? She would have had to be a tween when she started.
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Post by setokaiba on Mar 3, 2019 14:44:58 GMT
there were options to make it so they had both the necessary trg and yet had not experienced anything (deep freeze learning) but those were not used to make up for things instead they were just really poorly written, when sarah goes through the heart to heart phase with the various parts of the crew she identifies various things about her life prior to joining the mission to andromeda and the fact she went through 18mths of pathfinder trg having been to the military academy done 3yrs ROS and 5 years in some troubleshooting ops group for a corporation (you have to piece it together from the various covo's) all in all she has done more than a decade after finishing education and some of that time was in active combat... This is another part where they just lost me. Based on the ME timeline, she's 22. She did 18 months of Pathfinder training, which means she was 20 when she started that. When did she do all of this other stuff she talks about? She would have had to be a tween when she started. The game is just poorly written and they was just trying to come up with reasons why the Ryder Twins can handle themselves. I don't get why they just couldn't be in their mid to late 20s instead of 22. Like no one questions Cora experince.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 3, 2019 16:57:36 GMT
Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all. Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. But the Ryder twins weren’t making quips every five minutes. There were many times that they were serious.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 3, 2019 20:17:24 GMT
Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. But the Ryder twins weren’t making quips every five minutes. There were many times that they were serious. Yes, the secret to a serious Ryder was to pick the serious lines. Who'd a thunk?
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Post by clips7 on Mar 4, 2019 3:01:21 GMT
Ryder being serious.....
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Post by dirtydiscolux on Mar 4, 2019 3:28:41 GMT
But the Ryder twins weren’t making quips every five minutes. There were many times that they were serious. Yes, the secret to a serious Ryder was to pick the serious lines. Who'd a thunk? Even when I picked the serious or logical tones it still came off as a quip, plus the auto dialogue was always a quip, imo. I was so frustrated that I didn't feel I could shape my Ryder's personality really. I wanted to make her this logic and serious character, a chip off the old block but I couldn't. It started on habitat 7 when she was bantering with Liam, which was auto dialogue I had no control over. I was close to just stopping but I pressed on. Unfortunately it never got better for me. Take Liam's loyalty mission for example, I wanted my Ryder to pissed off at him, but at some point, my Ryder said to Liam, "I'm starting to turn around on this plan, Liam." NO! That is not how I wanted to roleplay the mission. Again this dialogue was beyond my control. I hit alt+f4 and uninstalled.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 3:41:48 GMT
Or you could just be wrong. I’m going to go with that one. Occam’s Razor and all. Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. No, OR would still point to the fan being wrong. Graduate grade school by 18 Graduate Alliance academy by 20 Serve as Mass Relay/Prothean Dig Team guard between 20-21 Family gets blacklisted, join AI and get training from dad 21-22 Leave for Andromeda by 22 Oh yeah, there's no way they could have done everything and be that young. (though I see some people are operating with numbers that somehow came up for them but never in all my playthroughs of the game, so for those using those numbers please share where to find them) So if someone doesn't act the way you would act, they aren't acting properly so were poorly written. This may come as a shock, but people react to the same things in different ways. And humor can be used for a lot of things, so someone using it doesn't mean they aren't normal. Also my Ryders tend to be quite serious, at least on par with Shepard.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 4, 2019 4:06:58 GMT
It’s funny how this turned into another debate into Andromeda.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 4:08:40 GMT
As for the topic, I found the NPCs and their stories quite interesting. Even the ones who annoyed me I was fine with since they were meant to be annoying.
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Post by dirtydiscolux on Mar 4, 2019 4:10:45 GMT
Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. No, OR would still point to the fan being wrong. Graduate grade school by 18 Graduate Alliance academy by 20 Serve as Mass Relay/Prothean Dig Team guard between 20-21 Family gets blacklisted, join AI and get training from dad 21-22 Leave for Andromeda by 22 Oh yeah, there's no way they could have done everything and be that young. (though I see some people are operating with numbers that somehow came up for them but never in all my playthroughs of the game, so for those using those numbers please share where to find them) So if someone doesn't act the way you would act, they aren't acting properly so were poorly written. This may come as a shock, but people react to the same things in different ways. And humor can be used for a lot of things, so someone using it doesn't mean they aren't normal. Also my Ryders tend to be quite serious, at least on par with Shepard. How did you manage a serious Ryder? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know. It was an exercise in frustration for me because there always seem to be a quip no matter what. It was so frustrating.
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Post by isaidlunch on Mar 4, 2019 4:13:05 GMT
The games aren't being written for a younger audience. Young people aren't inherently dumber than older people. The games are written for a dumber audience. Which, unfortunately, is us. Idiocracy has arrived full steam, and is visible here all the time. DA2 was too cheesy, so many of you love that swill. There is a reason many people think of it as absolutely the worst DA game; I have never replayed it. Replaying DAO now, sure the humor is there. It always has been. The quality has been on decline for years. "Look, I have your fodder." That was clever. Lol Liam is realistic; now that's a generational gap. I have nothing. Have they really changed though? Maybe it's more blatant now, but their games have always been cheesy with the exception of maybe DAO.
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Post by river82 on Mar 4, 2019 4:19:24 GMT
The games aren't being written for a younger audience. Young people aren't inherently dumber than older people. The games are written for a dumber audience. Which, unfortunately, is us. Idiocracy has arrived full steam, and is visible here all the time. DA2 was too cheesy, so many of you love that swill. There is a reason many people think of it as absolutely the worst DA game; I have never replayed it. Replaying DAO now, sure the humor is there. It always has been. The quality has been on decline for years. "Look, I have your fodder." That was clever. Lol Liam is realistic; now that's a generational gap. I have nothing. Have they really changed though? Maybe it's more blatant now, but their games have always been cheesy with the exception of maybe DAO. The amount of that sort of content has increased dramatically over the years. Take Minsc for example. Yes he was silly, yes he was extremely hit or miss, but he was only 1 of over 20 companions in the Baldur's Gate world. Don't like him? Don't take him.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 4:44:51 GMT
No, OR would still point to the fan being wrong. Graduate grade school by 18 Graduate Alliance academy by 20 Serve as Mass Relay/Prothean Dig Team guard between 20-21 Family gets blacklisted, join AI and get training from dad 21-22 Leave for Andromeda by 22 Oh yeah, there's no way they could have done everything and be that young. (though I see some people are operating with numbers that somehow came up for them but never in all my playthroughs of the game, so for those using those numbers please share where to find them) So if someone doesn't act the way you would act, they aren't acting properly so were poorly written. This may come as a shock, but people react to the same things in different ways. And humor can be used for a lot of things, so someone using it doesn't mean they aren't normal. Also my Ryders tend to be quite serious, at least on par with Shepard. How did you manage a serious Ryder? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know. It was an exercise in frustration for me because there always seem to be a quip no matter what. It was so frustrating. What dialogue options did to tend to choose?
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<3
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Post by dirtydiscolux on Mar 4, 2019 4:50:38 GMT
How did you manage a serious Ryder? I'm not being sarcastic, I really want to know. It was an exercise in frustration for me because there always seem to be a quip no matter what. It was so frustrating. What dialogue options did to tend to choose? Professional and logical any time they were available.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 4:56:40 GMT
What dialogue options did to tend to choose? Professional and logical any time they were available. Hmm, I did more Emotional than Logical (chose what seemed best for the moment) so perhaps that’s where the difference lies. Emotional I noticed was mostly being empathetic rather than other emotions so they seemed more serious than you might think. Though like I said I went with which seemed most fitting for the moment so perhaps I just made lucky choices. Avoided Casual like the plague unless the situation was a casual one.
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Post by dirtydiscolux on Mar 4, 2019 5:01:55 GMT
Professional and logical any time they were available. Hmm, I did more Emotional than Logical (chose what seemed best for the moment) so perhaps that’s where the difference lies. Emotional I noticed was mostly being empathetic rather than other emotions so they seemed more serious than you might think. Though like I said I went with which seemed most fitting for the moment so perhaps I just made lucky choices. Avoided Casual like the plague unless the situation was a casual one. I'll keep this in mind when I decide to try again.
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 6,650
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 4, 2019 7:16:15 GMT
Wouldn't Occam's Razor lead to the conclusion "it's likely just poor writing"? The Ryder twins are 22, but they should have been shaped by their previous life experiences, and by their experiences throughout the game itself. The world's all time ace of aces was 22 at the height of his career, but I bet he wasn't spouting cringey one-liners all the way to that moment. Normal people don't act like comedians during such hard times. No, OR would still point to the fan being wrong. Graduate grade school by 18 Graduate Alliance academy by 20 Serve as Mass Relay/Prothean Dig Team guard between 20-21 Family gets blacklisted, join AI and get training from dad 21-22 Leave for Andromeda by 22 Oh yeah, there's no way they could have done everything and be that young. (though I see some people are operating with numbers that somehow came up for them but never in all my playthroughs of the game, so for those using those numbers please share where to find them) So if someone doesn't act the way you would act, they aren't acting properly so were poorly written. This may come as a shock, but people react to the same things in different ways. And humor can be used for a lot of things, so someone using it doesn't mean they aren't normal. Also my Ryders tend to be quite serious, at least on par with Shepard. I'm honestly not sure how most of the things you said relate to my post that you quoted. I was talking about how badly the comedy (even if you picked mostly logical/professional) fit the situation at hand, not how they are too young for their previous career. But since you mentioned service as a guard for a mass relay or dig team - that is something I can personally relate to, since I served as a security guard during the cold war. Let me tell you, every hour of that is a very stressful job. If anyone is caught sniffing around where they're not supposed to, it's your ass on the line. You might find people engaged in suspicious activity that may require you to use lethal force immediately and without warning. You may have to arrest people who will either fight back or may or may not try to trick you when they surrender. And you may die or get terribly hurt from a silenced shot from a hundred meters away, also without warning. I was 18 at that time, and most of the other guys were barely any older. None of them had lost their father recently as far as I am aware, and no one was even remotely quipping and one-linering as much as even professional/logical Ryder. Making fun in such a situation is for two kinds of people - veterans who aren't scared or don't care anymore, or oblivious airheads who should have never been given the assignment in the first place. The game stresses how inexperienced Ryder is, so there aren't many options left. Then there's the entire thing of how stupidly unprepared the AI is even for the simplest of things, which has been discussed to death, so I'll just give one example: there is apparently no backup energy for the cryopods upon arrival in Heleus, which forces the hasty landing on Habitat 7. That's the equivalent of stupidity of going on a road trip to a place with no gas stations, bringing just enough gas for your car to get there, and then worry about that fact only when you arrive and can't go back. Even if Mass Effect doesn't have the equivalent of Tony Stark's arc reactor, in the 20th century we had this wonder called solar panels that are easy to make, easy to use and easy to replace. Backup energy should have been easily available, but it isn't, and no character in the game seems to be aware of how mindbogglingly stupid that is. But neither seem most players, so I'll just repeat what Qui-Gon GlenN7 said before: MEA was written for a dumber audience.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 7:22:12 GMT
I used my reply to you as also addressing the conversation going on without having to quote half a dozen people, so that's why not all of it is in response to your post. As for the rest of this post, thank you for confirming what I said in my previous reply to you. You're wrong. Have a nice day.
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N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,671 Likes: 6,650
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Agent 46
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Apr 18, 2024 19:55:44 GMT
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Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
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August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 4, 2019 7:24:52 GMT
I used my reply to you as also addressing the conversation going on without having to quote half a dozen people, so that's why not all of it is in response to your post. As for the rest of this post, thank you for confirming what I said in my previous reply to you. Have a good day. I didn't confirm anything and I feel this isn't going anywhere, so have a good day too!
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Scribbles
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Apr 18, 2024 19:55:26 GMT
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Hanako Ikezawa
22,352
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 7:26:01 GMT
I used my reply to you as also addressing the conversation going on without having to quote half a dozen people, so that's why not all of it is in response to your post. As for the rest of this post, thank you for confirming what I said in my previous reply to you. Have a good day. I didn't confirm anything and I feel this isn't going anywhere, so have a good day too! You confirmed that you think your own narrow experience is an universal truth that all must follow. You're wrong, and with that position there is no point in even trying to have a discussion so I dropped it. Plus I'm not a fan of being insulted.
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