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Post by smilesja on Mar 3, 2019 16:39:20 GMT
WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ... The Future of MassEffect and the cancer that BioWare has turned into? also the constant denial of most "fans" which lead to this crap show? How are these “fans” in denial?
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 3, 2019 18:46:46 GMT
WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ... The Future of MassEffect and the cancer that BioWare has turned into? also the constant denial of most "fans" which lead to this crap show? Oh for the love of.... If you dont like the current Bioware fine but dont assume we all feel that way.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 0:23:45 GMT
WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ... The Future of MassEffect and the cancer that BioWare has turned into? also the constant denial of most "fans" which lead to this crap show? Freudian slip, eh? Your use of the term "most" in this context arbitrarily puts your opinion in the minority. Also, I was watching theRadBrad's playthrough of Anthem today... he indicated several times through the video that he was having a lot of fun playing the game. I think you're the one in denial here.
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Post by Blast Processor on Mar 4, 2019 1:51:18 GMT
And maybe the Mass Effect after the next will Fail Hard with a Vengeance.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 4, 2019 1:59:52 GMT
And maybe the Mass Effect after the next will Fail Hard with a Vengeance. Mass Effect: Live Free and Fail Hard Mass Effect: A Good Day to Fail Hard
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Mar 4, 2019 7:42:27 GMT
And maybe the Mass Effect after the next will Fail Hard with a Vengeance. Mass Effect: Live Free and Fail Hard Mass Effect: A Good Day to Fail Hard good one
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Post by clips7 on Mar 4, 2019 10:09:48 GMT
I don't see why folks are going in on the OP...he's just giving his opinion on why he thinks the next game will bomb...given what we've seen in Andromeda, it's not ridiculous to think that it might happen. The overall writing and character development is what hurt Andromeda....even with the animation and glitches, Andromeda's issues was with it's core elements...Story and characters. And lets not forget the agenda inclusive writing...they had to delete a scene that had a character talking about how they was a transgender.... ....Making Jaal BI....the character of Morda (feminist)....which goes against the very lore of female Krogans....SAM being able to solve every roadblock in the game...if it wasn't for SAM for over several scenarios the game would have ended in the first hour or so.....bland writing...Cora's conversation branches are used up, before you're even through half way through the game....SAM open this door....SAM do this....Ryder couldn't do ANYTHING without SAM (It held his/her hand throughout the entire game)...where was the growth seen throughout the game from Ryder?.... And he did happen to do something without SAM towards the end there, but LOL.....the game doesn't really tell you how he does that...good `ol Space Magic i guess... So yeah, i would be a bit skeptical too if i wondered if there was any hope of a good Mass Effect game coming down the pike given what we seen in Andromeda.....regardless of how some folks enjoyed Andromeda, overall the game bombed and another game like Andromeda will tank the series for good. Don't treat characters like they are needed for some sort of checkoff list to make certain groups happy....I liked Kaiden and Jack.....they was written wonderfully and didn't feel forced or like they was written to please folks.....what was seen in Andromeda was just juvenile and embarrassing. I'm not sure if Bioware still has that magical talent to write a great story and characters first as opposed to making sure certain types of characters are in the game.....just make a game with a great story and characters and everything else will fall into place. What i have seen from Anthem, is that overall the story and characters seem to be better than what was seen in Andromeda and that is saying alot being that the game is focusing on looter aspects first and its story elements 2nd. I think a story can be told in Andromeda, (there are still mysteries and questions unanswered) but only if Bioware can stop the madness and tighten up their writing/ character and narratives aspects....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 16:24:17 GMT
I don't see why folks are going in on the OP...he's just giving his opinion on why he thinks the next game will bomb...given what we've seen in Andromeda, it's not ridiculous to think that it might happen. The overall writing and character development is what hurt Andromeda....even with the animation and glitches, Andromeda's issues was with it's core elements...Story and characters. And lets not forget the agenda inclusive writing...they had to delete a scene that had a character talking about how they was a transgender.... ....Making Jaal BI....the character of Morda (feminist)....which goes against the very lore of female Krogans....SAM being able to solve every roadblock in the game...if it wasn't for SAM for over several scenarios the game would have ended in the first hour or so.....bland writing...Cora's conversation branches are used up, before you're even through half way through the game....SAM open this door....SAM do this....Ryder couldn't do ANYTHING without SAM (It held his/her hand throughout the entire game)...where was the growth seen throughout the game from Ryder?.... And he did happen to do something without SAM towards the end there, but LOL.....the game doesn't really tell you how he does that...good `ol Space Magic i guess... So yeah, i would be a bit skeptical too if i wondered if there was any hope of a good Mass Effect game coming down the pike given what we seen in Andromeda.....regardless of how some folks enjoyed Andromeda, overall the game bombed and another game like Andromeda will tank the series for good. Don't treat characters like they are needed for some sort of checkoff list to make certain groups happy....I liked Kaiden and Jack.....they was written wonderfully and didn't feel forced or like they was written to please folks.....what was seen in Andromeda was just juvenile and embarrassing. I'm not sure if Bioware still has that magical talent to write a great story and characters first as opposed to making sure certain types of characters are in the game.....just make a game with a great story and characters and everything else will fall into place. What i have seen from Anthem, is that overall the story and characters seem to be better than what was seen in Andromeda and that is saying alot being that the game is focusing on looter aspects first and its story elements 2nd. I think a story can be told in Andromeda, (there are still mysteries and questions unanswered) but only if Bioware can stop the madness and tighten up their writing/ character and narratives aspects.... 1) Perhaps it has something to do with his continually saying we fans of Bioware are "in denial." 2) Perhaps it has something to do with the nearly daily Youtube releases re-analyzing Bioware games, largely in the negative... and we're just plain tired of the "extreme" nature of such criticism. 3) Perhaps it has something to do with the next ME game likely being at least 6 years away from release... making such speculation about the state of that game, the state of Bioware as a company, and indeed the state of the industry... absolutely pointless. (BTW, that was the facetious point of my earlier post... to illustrate how ridiculous it is to go on about something in such a negative sense that is likely NOT to occur for years into the future. Heck, at the rate of tech advancement I've seen in my lifetime alone... videogames as we know them today may not even exist 6 or 7 years from now.
... and I have an equal "right" to just state my opinion... which is that, it's not any of the devs or publishers that are a "cancer" on this Industry... It's ultimately all the clickbait Youtubers who try to get clicks by sensationalizing and re-sentationalizing every little negative they can latch onto and inundating the internet with it making it seem like a "majority" of fans are of a particular viewpoint... When the fact of the matter is that the majority of fans just buy and play whatever variety of games they want and can affort... and are completely silent because they don't participate on Youtube or on any forums.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 4, 2019 16:30:33 GMT
And lets not forget the agenda inclusive writing...they had to delete a scene that had a character talking about how they was a transgender.... ....Making Jaal BI....the character of Morda (feminist)....which goes against the very lore of female Krogans....SAM being able to solve every roadblock in the game...if it wasn't for SAM for over several scenarios the game would have ended in the first hour or so.....bland writing...Cora's conversation branches are used up, before you're even through half way through the game....SAM open this door....SAM do this....Ryder couldn't do ANYTHING without SAM (It held his/her hand throughout the entire game)...where was the growth seen throughout the game from Ryder?.... You really shouldn't outright lie if you're trying to make points like this. Ryder activates Meridian without SAM, for instance. Also note that using up companion dialogues early in the game is hardly unique to ME:A. It happens in DA:O too. It happens in any game where companion conversations aren't locked behind plot points. And if you're going to mention making Jaal bi, you should probably say why it's a problem.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 4, 2019 18:01:10 GMT
And lets not forget the agenda inclusive writing...they had to delete a scene that had a character talking about how they was a transgender.... ....Making Jaal BI....the character of Morda (feminist)....which goes against the very lore of female Krogans....SAM being able to solve every roadblock in the game...if it wasn't for SAM for over several scenarios the game would have ended in the first hour or so.....bland writing...Cora's conversation branches are used up, before you're even through half way through the game....SAM open this door....SAM do this....Ryder couldn't do ANYTHING without SAM (It held his/her hand throughout the entire game)...where was the growth seen throughout the game from Ryder?.... You really shouldn't outright lie if you're trying to make points like this. Ryder activates Meridian without SAM, for instance. Also note that using up companion dialogues early in the game is hardly unique to ME:A. It happens in DA:O too. It happens in any game where companion conversations aren't locked behind plot points. And if you're going to mention making Jaal bi, you should probably say why it's a problem. Uhm...what exactly am i lying about? Ryder did activate Meridan, but the game as i recall never really gave a descriptive reason as to why Ryder all of sudden had the ability to do that. I also understand that dialogue branches do expire within any game, my point was that in Cora's case it expired pretty early.....Asari Commandos this Asari Commados that....In Mass Effect2 Miranda's dialogue branch repeated as well, but that was towards the end of the game when she was waiting for yo right before the suicide mission. I already mentioned why Jaal was a problem ....he wasn't originally written to be a BI character....when you start altering the traits of characters and catering to certain groups instead of just writing a good story, the entire game suffers.....now of course you can say..."well Jaal being BI doesn't affect the game one way or the other" which is true, but what's next?...fans are going demand a character be a certain way or they will protest?.....cause an uproar over something that wasn't thought of in the first place? I explained this already in that the characters didn't feel authentic in how Kaiden and Jack was written.....Morda, Jaal, and the trans character all felt like "hey look we have these folks in our game too".....just create a good game with great characters and everything will fall into place...
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 4, 2019 18:45:03 GMT
Although ME:A and Anthem present a worrying downward trend, I don't think it would be doomed to failure. I didn't have any problem with the setting of Andromeda, I had more of an issue in the lack of polish across the game. Especially the script.I think a bigger problem than EAs policy is whether they will allow the developers time to actually finish and maybe even test the game. If only Anthem and ME:A had been afforded that luxury. If they do these things better along with execution, i can't see this game fail.... Reviewers weren't that hard on the game compared to the people, and their arguments were way overblown(ugly faces, uninteresting characters, facial animations, glitches). As if other games isn't full of the last thing i mentioned, and that was fixed in the patches. Yes the animations were stiff, graphics could have been better like they originally looked, script too. Can't agree on the characters thing because they looked ok to me and pretty realistic, some i liked more than others but overall fine. If we compare them with me1 squad they did a better job. Both Reviewers and the people were comparing the game with the whole og. You can't do that, comparing it with 1 ok.... Andromeda though doesn't try to be on par with the trilogy or even surpass it but rather be It's own thing, and this is something the developers might had in mind. Yeah I agree the only thing that went wrong with MEA in my opinion is it needed more time in the oven. If it released in the condition it's in now it wouldn't have received half the criticism it got. I'm willing to bet we'd have seen DLC's for it too. Whilst I admit EA/Bioware did drop the ball on this one they did at least try to fix it or at least the bits that are fixable with a finished product. So I think they deserve credit for that even if the game wasn't quite what most were expecting. Personally I enjoy and like playing the game still but I can see why some people don't.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 19:05:33 GMT
You really shouldn't outright lie if you're trying to make points like this. Ryder activates Meridian without SAM, for instance. Also note that using up companion dialogues early in the game is hardly unique to ME:A. It happens in DA:O too. It happens in any game where companion conversations aren't locked behind plot points. And if you're going to mention making Jaal bi, you should probably say why it's a problem. Uhm...what exactly am i lying about? Ryder did activate Meridan, but the game as i recall never really gave a descriptive reason as to why Ryder all of sudden had the ability to do that. I also understand that dialogue branches do expire within any game, my point was that in Cora's case it expired pretty early.....Asari Commandos this Asari Commados that....In Mass Effect2 Miranda's dialogue branch repeated as well, but that was towards the end of the game when she was waiting for yo right before the suicide mission. I already mentioned why Jaal was a problem ....he wasn't originally written to be a BI character....when you start altering the traits of characters and catering to certain groups instead of just writing a good story, the entire game suffers.....now of course you can say..."well Jaal being BI doesn't affect the game one way or the other" which is true, but what's next?...fans are going demand a character be a certain way or they will protest?.....cause an uproar over something that wasn't thought of in the first place? I explained this already in that the characters didn't feel authentic in how Kaiden and Jack was written.....Morda, Jaal, and the trans character all felt like "hey look we have these folks in our game too".....just create a good game with great characters and everything will fall into place... The explanation for Ryder being to activate Meridian is embedded in ALL the dialogue involving the idea of learning the Remnant language... from the very beginning when Alec and Ryder are talking and Alec will suggest that "SAM had a little something to do with it" and SAM will reply that "it's a matter of linguistics." Throughout the game, through SAM's translations, Ryder is learning the Remnant language until he/she learns it well enough that he/she can activate Remnant even without SAM. The explanation is there, ongoing, throughout the entire game... it was pretty obvious to me. IMO, you just missed it. Why? I can speculate that maybe you just weren't willing to focus enough on the story that was being told while being too wrapped up in not getting the preconceived story you wanted to be told. We all use very fast computers these days to communicate and many would say they find it "painful" to even think about communicating without them... but, in the past, it was done. We went to the moon without them.
Miranda had standard and repeating dialogue about the crew and the status report on the ship that could be triggered in every conversation with her. With Cora, the game itself is longer and they wanted the romance dialogue to start after the Asari Ark is found. You can follow that path directly and never repeat a conversation with her at all. IF you decide to keep talking with her while you're busy advance other quest lines and not addressing hers, she runs out of things to say. However, even when just asking about her Asari commandos, you can at least trigger 4 of them before she does run out... Unlike Miranda, who really only had one line about how the ship was doing... until after the crew was abducted when a new line was introduced.
As for bi-Jaal. I personally would prefer all romanceable characters to be bi - available to PC's of either gender so that, no matter what gender the player starts out as, they can select their romance from all of them... rather than having the imbalance in ME2 and ME3 that FemShep faced... be essentially gay or be able to only choose from one human for a long-term relationship (Kaidan) while a straight MaleShep could choose from Ashley, Miranda, or Jack.
I disagree that Jaal did not feel "authentic." I think he felt quite authentic. PeeBee felt very authentically exuberant (excited about adventure and her work) to me, as did Cora and Suvi. Gil seemed quite authentic as well... but all of that (whether one likes a specific type of character or not) is (or at least should be) just a matter of personal taste.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 4, 2019 19:08:58 GMT
You really shouldn't outright lie if you're trying to make points like this. Ryder activates Meridian without SAM, for instance. Also note that using up companion dialogues early in the game is hardly unique to ME:A. It happens in DA:O too. It happens in any game where companion conversations aren't locked behind plot points. And if you're going to mention making Jaal bi, you should probably say why it's a problem. Uhm...what exactly am i lying about? Ryder did activate Meridan, but the game as i recall never really gave a descriptive reason as to why Ryder all of sudden had the ability to do that. I also understand that dialogue branches do expire within any game, my point was that in Cora's case it expired pretty early.....Asari Commandos this Asari Commados that....In Mass Effect2 Miranda's dialogue branch repeated as well, but that was towards the end of the game when she was waiting for yo right before the suicide mission. I already mentioned why Jaal was a problem ....he wasn't originally written to be a BI character....when you start altering the traits of characters and catering to certain groups instead of just writing a good story, the entire game suffers.....now of course you can say..."well Jaal being BI doesn't affect the game one way or the other" which is true, but what's next?...fans are going demand a character be a certain way or they will protest?.....cause an uproar over something that wasn't thought of in the first place? I explained this already in that the characters didn't feel authentic in how Kaiden and Jack was written.....Morda, Jaal, and the trans character all felt like "hey look we have these folks in our game too".....just create a good game with great characters and everything will fall into place... It's probably felt that they didn't need to explain it because Sam had already been working those muscles and abilities through the implant for the entire game it's possible that Ryder managed to figure out how tap in to it without him the fact they'er screaming in pain indicates that's what they're trying to do just like when the Archon tried leaving Ryder for dead in the Remnant City at the start of that level because they didn't think Ryder would have the balls to try it without SAM since their connection was dead. Sam just had the ability to stimulate those muscles without hurting Ryder which is why Ryder's not screaming in pain normally through most of the game. They are at the end because they'er trying to do something that their body and mind is trying to do something it wasn't built for and that's why in the end the Pathfinder connection at the end was restored because eventually if they tried doing it too often without SAM it would have eventually killed Ryder. Ryder got away with it there but in the end only just. At least that's how I read the ending anyway.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 4, 2019 22:49:58 GMT
The explanation for Ryder being to activate Meridian is embedded in ALL the dialogue involving the idea of learning the Remnant language... from the very beginning when Alec and Ryder are talking and Alec will suggest that "SAM had a little something to do with it" and SAM will reply that "it's a matter of linguistics." Throughout the game, through SAM's translations, Ryder is learning the Remnant language until he/she learns it well enough that he/she can activate Remnant even without SAM. The explanation is there, ongoing, throughout the entire game... it was pretty obvious to me. IMO, you just missed it. Why? I can speculate that maybe you just weren't willing to focus enough on the story that was being told while being too wrapped up in not getting the preconceived story you wanted to be told. We all use very fast computers these days to communicate and many would say they find it "painful" to even think about communicating without them... but, in the past, it was done. We went to the moon without them. Ok...i remember having this discussion when Andromeda dropped.....It's still a far-fetched concept. Yes Ryder understands the Remnant tech....namely the glyph puzzles. My thing was, how was SAM even able to decode this tech when the natives of this space couldn't figure it out or understand them? SAM may be advanced tech, but that tech is still based on Human intelligence architecture. That is like taking any high end pc from earth right now, going to some other-wordly planet and somehow that high end pc understanding and decoding alien tech.... Now i get that we are in a sci-fi setting, but we also want the series to be grounded in some sense of rational reality.....this basically boiled down to space magic and having SAM understand this alien tech for plot device purposes and to push the story along. Again it was there, but poorly written.. Take Mass Effect 3 for instance....the Protheians left instructions to build the crucible, humans and aliens alike had to come together to understand what the Protheians was building, but it was more believable because of the aliens/humans involved having an understanding of the history of the Protheians and understanding their research....and even with them being able to understand it, the game presents you the gravity of it by displaying that no one race could decode the crucible instructions alone...it was a monumental task that took the effort of over the greatest scientific minds known and yet in Andromeda, Alex and Sam are able to overcome such odds in traveling to a completely different galaxy and decode alien tech and make ENTIRE planets hospitable....we are anchored to the story because it's a plot device, but it is not a very well written one... Miranda had standard and repeating dialogue about the crew and the status report on the ship that could be triggered in every conversation with her. With Cora, the game itself is longer and they wanted the romance dialogue to start after the Asari Ark is found. You can follow that path directly and never repeat a conversation with her at all. IF you decide to keep talking with her while you're busy advance other quest lines and not addressing hers, she runs out of things to say. However, even when just asking about her Asari commandos, you can at least trigger 4 of them before she does run out... Unlike Miranda, who really only had one line about how the ship was doing... until after the crew was abducted when a new line was introduced. Meh...i just remember that even after somewhat major events in the game, i would think that with her basically being your second in command in that she would have something of relevance to say. To me it just felt like her dialogue branch was exhausted extremely early. As for bi-Jaal. I personally would prefer all romanceable characters to be bi - available to PC's of either gender so that, no matter what gender the player starts out as, they can select their romance from all of them... rather than having the imbalance in ME2 and ME3 that FemShep faced... be essentially gay or be able to only choose from one human for a long-term relationship (Kaidan) while a straight MaleShep could choose from Ashley, Miranda, or Jack.
I disagree that Jaal did not feel "authentic." I think he felt quite authentic. PeeBee felt very authentically exuberant (excited about adventure and her work) to me, as did Cora and Suvi. Gil seemed quite authentic as well... but all of that (whether one likes a specific type of character or not) is (or at least should be) just a matter of personal taste. I'll just agree to disagree here....That trans character, Morda and Jaal to an extent felt like cut out props to cater to a certain group....tho Jaal to a lesser degree. For me it's not a matter of personal taste...i thought Gil was written ok and /Cortez in ME3 was written effectively as well. Why would the trans character say..."that person was not who i was....this person felt better...etc"...what was the reason to tell that to Ryder?...oh yeah to let folks know we have a transgender in the game....no need for those types of cringeworthy catering to be had in these games....the games always had these characters without to need to shamelessly advertise them. Look at the female Krogan lore in ME3 then look at Morda....just eye-rolling stuff...there's a reason why so many criticized Andromeda's writing and stuff like that was a part of it.
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Post by ahglock on Mar 4, 2019 23:07:37 GMT
I suspect it’s the nature of open world games for dialogue branches to exhaust in weird ways. The triggers that get the next branch might be minutes apart if played one way or 20 hours later if played another. So Cora may have had just as much dialogue as any me3 character or more but depending on how you trigger it changes how quickly it exhausts. In a linear game you are less able to exhaust it early.
Though I think maybe the war stories prompt is less effective than a status report. They could have had some generic triggers for standard missions and specific comments for story missions.
As an example if it payed attention to who was in your squad most recently and tracked 2-3 things like if they were downed, whether they finished a enemy off and overall damage they dealt she could have said things like I went over mission reports Jaal needs to do a better job staying in cover, Drak really cleaned up some of the outlaws. Assume they use some military jargon to make it sound right. I think that would be more interesting than random asari are cool stories.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 23:18:53 GMT
The explanation for Ryder being to activate Meridian is embedded in ALL the dialogue involving the idea of learning the Remnant language... from the very beginning when Alec and Ryder are talking and Alec will suggest that "SAM had a little something to do with it" and SAM will reply that "it's a matter of linguistics." Throughout the game, through SAM's translations, Ryder is learning the Remnant language until he/she learns it well enough that he/she can activate Remnant even without SAM. The explanation is there, ongoing, throughout the entire game... it was pretty obvious to me. IMO, you just missed it. Why? I can speculate that maybe you just weren't willing to focus enough on the story that was being told while being too wrapped up in not getting the preconceived story you wanted to be told. We all use very fast computers these days to communicate and many would say they find it "painful" to even think about communicating without them... but, in the past, it was done. We went to the moon without them. Ok...i remember having this discussion when Andromeda dropped.....It's still a far-fetched concept. Yes Ryder understands the Remnant tech....namely the glyph puzzles. My thing was, how was SAM even able to decode this tech when the natives of this space couldn't figure it out or understand them? SAM may be advanced tech, but that tech is still based on Human intelligence architecture. That is like taking any high end pc from earth right now, going to some other-wordly planet and somehow that high end pc understanding and decoding alien tech.... Now i get that we are in a sci-fi setting, but we also want the series to be grounded in some sense of rational reality.....this basically boiled down to space magic and having SAM understand this alien tech for plot device purposes and to push the story along. Again it was there, but poorly written.. Take Mass Effect 3 for instance....the Protheians left instructions to build the crucible, humans and aliens alike had to come together to understand what the Protheians was building, but it was more believable because of the aliens/humans involved having an understanding of the history of the Protheians and understanding their research....and even with them being able to understand it, the game presents you the gravity of it by displaying that no one race could decode the crucible instructions alone...it was a monumental task that took the effort of over the greatest scientific minds known and yet in Andromeda, Alex and Sam are able to overcome such odds in traveling to a completely different galaxy and decode alien tech and make ENTIRE planets hospitable....we are anchored to the story because it's a plot device, but it is not a very well written one... Miranda had standard and repeating dialogue about the crew and the status report on the ship that could be triggered in every conversation with her. With Cora, the game itself is longer and they wanted the romance dialogue to start after the Asari Ark is found. You can follow that path directly and never repeat a conversation with her at all. IF you decide to keep talking with her while you're busy advance other quest lines and not addressing hers, she runs out of things to say. However, even when just asking about her Asari commandos, you can at least trigger 4 of them before she does run out... Unlike Miranda, who really only had one line about how the ship was doing... until after the crew was abducted when a new line was introduced. Meh...i just remember that even after somewhat major events in the game, i would think that with her basically being your second in command in that she would have something of relevance to say. To me it just felt like her dialogue branch was exhausted extremely early. As for bi-Jaal. I personally would prefer all romanceable characters to be bi - available to PC's of either gender so that, no matter what gender the player starts out as, they can select their romance from all of them... rather than having the imbalance in ME2 and ME3 that FemShep faced... be essentially gay or be able to only choose from one human for a long-term relationship (Kaidan) while a straight MaleShep could choose from Ashley, Miranda, or Jack.
I disagree that Jaal did not feel "authentic." I think he felt quite authentic. PeeBee felt very authentically exuberant (excited about adventure and her work) to me, as did Cora and Suvi. Gil seemed quite authentic as well... but all of that (whether one likes a specific type of character or not) is (or at least should be) just a matter of personal taste. I'll just agree to disagree here....That trans character, Morda and Jaal to an extent felt like cut out props to cater to a certain group....tho Jaal to a lesser degree. For me it's not a matter of personal taste...i thought Gil was written ok and /Cortez in ME3 was written effectively as well. Why would the trans character say..."that person was not who i was....this person felt better...etc"...what was the reason to tell that to Ryder?...oh yeah to let folks know we have a transgender in the game....no need for those types of cringeworthy catering to be had in these games....the games always had these characters without to need to shamelessly advertise them. Look at the female Krogan lore in ME3 then look at Morda....just eye-rolling stuff...there's a reason why so many criticized Andromeda's writing and stuff like that was a part of it. So, now you're moving from "no explanation" to "there was an explanation, but I didn't like it." Different ball game. Languages are systems and computer analyze and decode systems... often very quickly. You're entitled to not like things... it doesn't mean the explanation wasn't given though. You didn't like it. I did. There is no basis to agree to disagree since you can't tell me I didn't like it and I can't tell you that you did. I agree that you didn't like it and you have to agree with me that I did.
Same with bi-character toggles. You wouldn't like them. I would. My reasons for liking them is that it's a way to allow all players regardless of what gender they select for their character to essentially choose whatever romance option they want. None are locked out that way and all PC's have the same number of options and the same basic variations in NPC personalities to choose from. (ETA: Each romanceable NPC would record two dialogue sets - one for a hetero relationship and one for a same-sex relationship. Before starting the game, the player would not only select the gender of their PC but also the sexual orientation of the PC. After that point, if, say, hetero was selected, NPC's of the opposite gender would all be romance options and all NPC's of the same gender would not. If homosexual orientation was chosen by the player, then it would be all the NPCs of the same gender who would be able to romanced and ones of the same gender would not.) It's not ideal, but it does prevent the situation I described - where playing as one gender resulted in significantly fewer options than the other. There is no ideal option. Certainly, having Bioware make only characters that YOU like is not a great option for everyone... since different people like different types of people as romantic partners and different people also choose different types of people as their friends. It has nothing to do with "shamelessly advertising" anything.
Re Morda - Simple... Krogan lore in the first 3 games did not account for the diversity present among the various krogan clan philosophies... but we were given an indication that such diversity existed by Wrex in ME2. Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female... but the "lore" that formed our impression of the stereotype was obviously incomplete... not an uncommon occurrence within IRL history of various societies and civilizations. Our understanding of how they worked has undergone continual reassessment for as long as I've been alive.
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Post by melbella on Mar 5, 2019 2:15:26 GMT
Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female Considering we've met only one other female krogan (Bakara) and I seriously doubt she was a "stereotypical krogan female" either, I don't think we have any idea what a stereotypical female krogan is, or if there even is such a thing. We know there were female warlords in the rebellions, so how is Morda any different in that regard?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 5, 2019 2:31:12 GMT
Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female Considering we've met only one other female krogan (Bakara) and I seriously doubt she was a "stereotypical krogan female" either, I don't think we have any idea what a stereotypical female krogan is, or if there even is such a thing. We know there were female warlords in the rebellions, so how is Morda any different in that regard? What? We've met more female krogan than that. Most notably Kesh. But yeah, why should they need to follow stereotypes? Wasn't the point for the krogan heading to Andromeda to start over?
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Post by melbella on Mar 5, 2019 4:26:46 GMT
What? We've met more female krogan than that. Most notably Kesh. Sorry, should have specified "before MEA". The point still stands though. We don't have a "stereotypical female krogan" with which to compare any of them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 4:46:13 GMT
Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female Considering we've met only one other female krogan (Bakara) and I seriously doubt she was a "stereotypical krogan female" either, I don't think we have any idea what a stereotypical female krogan is, or if there even is such a thing. We know there were female warlords in the rebellions, so how is Morda any different in that regard? True... my bad in that I had forgotten about female warlords like Shiagur. It just adds strength to position that Morda doesn't really break the lore. When I made the comment, I was thinking more about how Wrex talked about female krogan in ME2 and, to some degree, how they were talked about during Mordin's LM... and some of that was supported by Bakara's demeanor in ME3. Morda has a much different personality from Bakara, but I really don't think there is anything out of line with the lore as was claimed by the poster to whom I was responding.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 5, 2019 13:17:59 GMT
Ok...i remember having this discussion when Andromeda dropped.....It's still a far-fetched concept. Yes Ryder understands the Remnant tech....namely the glyph puzzles. My thing was, how was SAM even able to decode this tech when the natives of this space couldn't figure it out or understand them? SAM may be advanced tech, but that tech is still based on Human intelligence architecture. That is like taking any high end pc from earth right now, going to some other-wordly planet and somehow that high end pc understanding and decoding alien tech.... Now i get that we are in a sci-fi setting, but we also want the series to be grounded in some sense of rational reality.....this basically boiled down to space magic and having SAM understand this alien tech for plot device purposes and to push the story along. Again it was there, but poorly written.. Take Mass Effect 3 for instance....the Protheians left instructions to build the crucible, humans and aliens alike had to come together to understand what the Protheians was building, but it was more believable because of the aliens/humans involved having an understanding of the history of the Protheians and understanding their research....and even with them being able to understand it, the game presents you the gravity of it by displaying that no one race could decode the crucible instructions alone...it was a monumental task that took the effort of over the greatest scientific minds known and yet in Andromeda, Alex and Sam are able to overcome such odds in traveling to a completely different galaxy and decode alien tech and make ENTIRE planets hospitable....we are anchored to the story because it's a plot device, but it is not a very well written one... Meh...i just remember that even after somewhat major events in the game, i would think that with her basically being your second in command in that she would have something of relevance to say. To me it just felt like her dialogue branch was exhausted extremely early. I'll just agree to disagree here....That trans character, Morda and Jaal to an extent felt like cut out props to cater to a certain group....tho Jaal to a lesser degree. For me it's not a matter of personal taste...i thought Gil was written ok and /Cortez in ME3 was written effectively as well. Why would the trans character say..."that person was not who i was....this person felt better...etc"...what was the reason to tell that to Ryder?...oh yeah to let folks know we have a transgender in the game....no need for those types of cringeworthy catering to be had in these games....the games always had these characters without to need to shamelessly advertise them. Look at the female Krogan lore in ME3 then look at Morda....just eye-rolling stuff...there's a reason why so many criticized Andromeda's writing and stuff like that was a part of it. So, now you're moving from "no explanation" to "there was an explanation, but I didn't like it." Different ball game. Languages are systems and computer analyze and decode systems... often very quickly. You're entitled to not like things... it doesn't mean the explanation wasn't given though. You didn't like it. I did. There is no basis to agree to disagree since you can't tell me I didn't like it and I can't tell you that you did. I agree that you didn't like it and you have to agree with me that I did.
Same with bi-character toggles. You wouldn't like them. I would. My reasons for liking them is that it's a way to allow all players regardless of what gender they select for their character to essentially choose whatever romance option they want. None are locked out that way and all PC's have the same number of options and the same basic variations in NPC personalities to choose from. (ETA: Each romanceable NPC would record two dialogue sets - one for a hetero relationship and one for a same-sex relationship. Before starting the game, the player would not only select the gender of their PC but also the sexual orientation of the PC. After that point, if, say, hetero was selected, NPC's of the opposite gender would all be romance options and all NPC's of the same gender would not. If homosexual orientation was chosen by the player, then it would be all the NPCs of the same gender who would be able to romanced and ones of the same gender would not.) It's not ideal, but it does prevent the situation I described - where playing as one gender resulted in significantly fewer options than the other. There is no ideal option. Certainly, having Bioware make only characters that YOU like is not a great option for everyone... since different people like different types of people as romantic partners and different people also choose different types of people as their friends. It has nothing to do with "shamelessly advertising" anything.
Re Morda - Simple... Krogan lore in the first 3 games did not account for the diversity present among the various krogan clan philosophies... but we were given an indication that such diversity existed by Wrex in ME2. Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female... but the "lore" that formed our impression of the stereotype was obviously incomplete... not an uncommon occurrence within IRL history of various societies and civilizations. Our understanding of how they worked has undergone continual reassessment for as long as I've been alive.
Yeah,...we just have a difference of opinions. I didn't like the concept of Ryder/Alex understanding alien tech in a far off alien galaxy that allowed them to decode alien atmospheric weather patterns via SAM/earth tech....again i'm willing to let my imagination fly since this is sci-fi, but give me something that is a bit more grounded and believable. And i think you mis-understood me as far as BI characters go...i didn't like the process of how Jaal was implemented....the fans wanted a BI character, i don't have an issue with that, but it was moreso the character wasn't written that way from the jump (now i don't want to go in circles because yes Jaal being BI does not effect the game in any shape or form)...i just don't like when fans feel they can change certain aspects of characters just to suit their wants....i'm african american and i have played countless games where the main character was white...i then did not turn around and say..." hey i would like this person or this secondary character to be black"..... I just feel once fans start demanding such things you start to compromise the creative integrity of the game itself.....As far as Morda is concerned?...the first time i heard her speak and her mannerisms, i just got a feminist vibe from her...if you didn't see or feel that, that's fine and i can agree to an extent that the female Krogan lore can probably expand and diversify, but ME2 & 3 as far as i can tell revealed the female krogan lore and the roles they play.... And again i already stated i have no issues with gays or a whole host of diversity in the game.....these games have always been like that.....that trans person went out of her way to tell that she was a trans...that is horrible writing....Morda's character is just eye-rolling obvious....Kaiden, Jack, Cortez.....are all written wonderfully...you know their sexual preferences yet they are not advertising it like it is some type of feature.....this was the overall issue with Andromeda...it's story and narratives was written poorly....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 14:08:39 GMT
So, now you're moving from "no explanation" to "there was an explanation, but I didn't like it." Different ball game. Languages are systems and computer analyze and decode systems... often very quickly. You're entitled to not like things... it doesn't mean the explanation wasn't given though. You didn't like it. I did. There is no basis to agree to disagree since you can't tell me I didn't like it and I can't tell you that you did. I agree that you didn't like it and you have to agree with me that I did.
Same with bi-character toggles. You wouldn't like them. I would. My reasons for liking them is that it's a way to allow all players regardless of what gender they select for their character to essentially choose whatever romance option they want. None are locked out that way and all PC's have the same number of options and the same basic variations in NPC personalities to choose from. (ETA: Each romanceable NPC would record two dialogue sets - one for a hetero relationship and one for a same-sex relationship. Before starting the game, the player would not only select the gender of their PC but also the sexual orientation of the PC. After that point, if, say, hetero was selected, NPC's of the opposite gender would all be romance options and all NPC's of the same gender would not. If homosexual orientation was chosen by the player, then it would be all the NPCs of the same gender who would be able to romanced and ones of the same gender would not.) It's not ideal, but it does prevent the situation I described - where playing as one gender resulted in significantly fewer options than the other. There is no ideal option. Certainly, having Bioware make only characters that YOU like is not a great option for everyone... since different people like different types of people as romantic partners and different people also choose different types of people as their friends. It has nothing to do with "shamelessly advertising" anything.
Re Morda - Simple... Krogan lore in the first 3 games did not account for the diversity present among the various krogan clan philosophies... but we were given an indication that such diversity existed by Wrex in ME2. Morda isn't the stereotypical krogan female... but the "lore" that formed our impression of the stereotype was obviously incomplete... not an uncommon occurrence within IRL history of various societies and civilizations. Our understanding of how they worked has undergone continual reassessment for as long as I've been alive.
Yeah,...we just have a difference of opinions. I didn't like the concept of Ryder/Alex understanding alien tech in a far off alien galaxy that allowed them to decode alien atmospheric weather patterns via SAM/earth tech....again i'm willing to let my imagination fly since this is sci-fi, but give me something that is a bit more grounded and believable. And i think you mis-understood me as far as BI characters go...i didn't like the process of how Jaal was implemented....the fans wanted a BI character, i don't have an issue with that, but it was moreso the character wasn't written that way from the jump (now i don't want to go in circles because yes Jaal being BI does not effect the game in any shape or form)...i just don't like when fans feel they can change certain aspects of characters just to suit their wants....i'm african american and i have played countless games where the main character was white...i then did not turn around and say..." hey i would like this person or this secondary character to be black"..... I just feel once fans start demanding such things you start to compromise the creative integrity of the game itself.....As far as Morda is concerned?...the first time i heard her speak and her mannerisms, i just got a feminist vibe from her...if you didn't see or feel that, that's fine and i can agree to an extent that the female Krogan lore can probably expand and diversify, but ME2 & 3 as far as i can tell revealed the female krogan lore and the roles they play.... And again i already stated i have no issues with gays or a whole host of diversity in the game.....these games have always been like that.....that trans person went out of her way to tell that she was a trans...that is horrible writing....Morda's character is just eye-rolling obvious....Kaiden, Jack, Cortez.....are all written wonderfully...you know their sexual preferences yet they are not advertising it like it is some type of feature.....this was the overall issue with Andromeda...it's story and narratives was written poorly.... Again, I thiink computers CAN decrypt systems very quickly. People with decryption skills can do it too... just more slowly. A language (in any galaxy) is a system. The base of that system is usually pretty mathematical and there are always consistencies in use that can be focused upon to unlock the rest. Sure, the time it might take IRL is compressed... but that's always the case in a game since no one really wants to play in boring Real Time. I don't find what they showed and how they explained it to be a stretch at all... but the bottomline here is you WANT to criticize the game, so nothing is going to convince to see the things written into the game that do explain it. The fact remains that an explanation was provided within the game, written into the game's dialogue. You cannot, therefore, say that "no explanation" was given. One was... you just don't like it.
I don't think I misunderstood you about Jaal at all. Your attack on Morda for being "feminist" is the same sort of bigotry you expressed about Jaal's sexual orientation... I'm just trying to be polite by trying to address the issue from a "game mechanic" perspective. If a NPC's sexual orientation responds to whatever orientation the player selects before starting the game and dialogue sets for every one of the romanceable ones are recorded, then the chracters would always be written to be either/or. As I said, it merely removes the "imbalance" that existed in the old Trilogy and allows for greater roleplay options. Players can now generally select their color upon creation, so really, that having to play games where the main character was white doesn't apply as much any more. Maybe the day will come where you can also choose the races of your sidekicks... perhaps by being given more choices about which people you select to be on your team and which ones you leave behind in space dock. In some respects, you can select that now every time you decide which two of the six individuals available you place on your squad.
Just because you didn't like Morda's feminist demeanor, doesn't mean that it's "lore breaking." As melbella pointed out, Krogan lore is filled with female warlords who are described to us as being particularly fierce. There is nothing in the game really, from the beginning, that says Krogan females can't be feminists. Again, it's an explanation you don't like... so, based on your statements about the language issue, I'm not surprised that you tend to "erase" the existence of that lore from the game entirely.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 5, 2019 16:20:38 GMT
Again, I thiink computers CAN decrypt systems very quickly. People with decryption skills can do it too... just more slowly. A language (in any galaxy) is a system. The base of that system is usually pretty mathematical and there are always consistencies in use that can be focused upon to unlock the rest. Sure, the time it might take IRL is compressed... but that's always the case in a game since no one really wants to play in boring Real Time. I don't find what they showed and how they explained it to be a stretch at all... but the bottomline here is you WANT to criticize the game, so nothing is going to convince to see the things written into the game that do explain it. The fact remains that an explanation was provided within the game, written into the game's dialogue. You cannot, therefore, say that "no explanation" was given. One was... you just don't like it. ......Look if we are going to have a respectable discourse you cannot just read what you want. What you are doing is borderline hearing but not listening. When you explained the scenario regarding Ryder learning Remnant tech, i had to reflect and remember conversations i had early on when Andromeda dropped about the said conversation, i then said yeah...Ryder understands the tech...yet you are still going on about how i stated there was no explanation...i came back and stated yes, he understands it, but i don't agree with how it was structured. And lol..i want to criticize this game?...like that is my one mission in life? Trust..i don't lose sleep over any of these games, Bottom line is that if Andromeda was a good game i would give praise for it. I criticize it because it's a bad Mass Effect game. . I don't think I misunderstood you about Jaal at all. Your attack on Morda for being "feminist" is the same sort of bigotry you expressed about Jaal's sexual orientation... I'm just trying to be polite by trying to address the issue from a "game mechanic" perspective. If a NPC's sexual orientation responds to whatever orientation the player selects before starting the game and dialogue sets for every one of the romanceable ones are recorded, then the chracters would always be written to be either/or. As I said, it merely removes the "imbalance" that existed in the old Trilogy and allows for greater roleplay options. Players can now generally select their color upon creation, so really, that having to play games where the main character was white doesn't apply as much any more. Maybe the day will come where you can also choose the races of your sidekicks... perhaps by being given more choices about which people you select to be on your team and which ones you leave behind in space dock. In some respects, you can select that now every time you decide which two of the six individuals available you place on your squad. Explain why it's Bigotry? Because i stated that the character wasn't originally designed that way?....please explain, because that is all i ever stated. Again you choose to look over my statement of how i had no issues with other gay characters in the game....but good luck trying to label me for something i'm not..... ..i agree with everything you stated up above....yes players can interact with other NPC and craft whatever relationship they want with whoever..i get all of that and have no issue with it....i have issues when fans start nitpicking at what they want to see done with certain characters in any game... Just because you didn't like Morda's feminist demeanor, doesn't mean that it's "lore breaking." As melbella pointed out, Krogan lore is filled with female warlords who are described to us as being particularly fierce. There is nothing in the game really, from the beginning, that says Krogan females can't be feminists. Again, it's an explanation you don't like... so, based on your statements about the language issue, I'm not surprised that you tend to "erase" the existence of that lore from the game entirely. Playing ME2 and 3..for me the game gave the impression that the male Krogans are the ones doing the heavy lifting and fighting and while it may be true that there are Female Krogan warlords, the game made it seem like these female Krogans where in the background mostly. I'll have to play those games again to listen to that info where it concerns female krogan warlords. And now i purposely "erase" existence of the Krogan lore?....apparently there are female Krogan warlords....so i will retract what i said earlier about the lore. See how that works? I don't engage in these conversations for "ha gotcha" moments...if i'm mis-understood about a story aspect i have no issues admitting it. But Morda as a character sucks.....to me she is a checkoff list character catering to a certain group. Because i don't like her makes me a bigot?....lol you sound like those from the left that as soon as somebody says anything negative about a gay/trans person they are labeled a bigot...DONT BE THAT GUY.....i don't like the characters and story of Andromeda and the narrative and writing is juvenile in nature....i criticized it because it's a bad ME game....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2019 17:05:59 GMT
Again, I thiink computers CAN decrypt systems very quickly. People with decryption skills can do it too... just more slowly. A language (in any galaxy) is a system. The base of that system is usually pretty mathematical and there are always consistencies in use that can be focused upon to unlock the rest. Sure, the time it might take IRL is compressed... but that's always the case in a game since no one really wants to play in boring Real Time. I don't find what they showed and how they explained it to be a stretch at all... but the bottomline here is you WANT to criticize the game, so nothing is going to convince to see the things written into the game that do explain it. The fact remains that an explanation was provided within the game, written into the game's dialogue. You cannot, therefore, say that "no explanation" was given. One was... you just don't like it. ......Look if we are going to have a respectable discourse you cannot just read what you want. What you are doing is borderline hearing but not listening. When you explained the scenario regarding Ryder learning Remnant tech, i had to reflect and remember conversations i had early on when Andromeda dropped about the said conversation, i then said yeah...Ryder understands the tech...yet you are still going on about how i stated there was no explanation...i came back and stated yes, he understands it, but i don't agree with how it was structured. And lol..i want to criticize this game?...like that is my one mission in life? Trust..i don't lose sleep over any of these games, Bottom line is that if Andromeda was a good game i would give praise for it. I criticize it because it's a bad Mass Effect game. . I don't think I misunderstood you about Jaal at all. Your attack on Morda for being "feminist" is the same sort of bigotry you expressed about Jaal's sexual orientation... I'm just trying to be polite by trying to address the issue from a "game mechanic" perspective. If a NPC's sexual orientation responds to whatever orientation the player selects before starting the game and dialogue sets for every one of the romanceable ones are recorded, then the chracters would always be written to be either/or. As I said, it merely removes the "imbalance" that existed in the old Trilogy and allows for greater roleplay options. Players can now generally select their color upon creation, so really, that having to play games where the main character was white doesn't apply as much any more. Maybe the day will come where you can also choose the races of your sidekicks... perhaps by being given more choices about which people you select to be on your team and which ones you leave behind in space dock. In some respects, you can select that now every time you decide which two of the six individuals available you place on your squad. Explain why it's Bigotry? Because i stated that the character wasn't originally designed that way?....please explain, because that is all i ever stated. Again you choose to look over my statement of how i had no issues with other gay characters in the game....but good luck trying to label me for something i'm not..... ..i agree with everything you stated up above....yes players can interact with other NPC and craft whatever relationship they want with whoever..i get all of that and have no issue with it....i have issues when fans start nitpicking at what they want to see done with certain characters in any game... Just because you didn't like Morda's feminist demeanor, doesn't mean that it's "lore breaking." As melbella pointed out, Krogan lore is filled with female warlords who are described to us as being particularly fierce. There is nothing in the game really, from the beginning, that says Krogan females can't be feminists. Again, it's an explanation you don't like... so, based on your statements about the language issue, I'm not surprised that you tend to "erase" the existence of that lore from the game entirely. Playing ME2 and 3..for me the game gave the impression that the male Krogans are the ones doing the heavy lifting and fighting and while it may be true that there are Female Krogan warlords, the game made it seem like these female Krogans where in the background mostly. I'll have to play those games again to listen to that info where it concerns female krogan warlords. And now i purposely "erase" existence of the Krogan lore?....apparently there are female Krogan warlords....so i will retract what i said earlier about the lore. See how that works? I don't engage in these conversations for "ha gotcha" moments...if i'm mis-understood about a story aspect i have no issues admitting it. But Morda as a character sucks.....to me she is a checkoff list character catering to a certain group. Because i don't like her makes me a bigot?....lol you sound like those from the left that as soon as somebody says anything negative about a gay/trans person they are labeled a bigot...DONT BE THAT GUY.....i don't like the characters and story of Andromeda and the narrative and writing is juvenile in nature....i criticized it because it's a bad ME game.... I don't see it as "catering to a certain group" since I'm for maximizing role play potential and anyone might want to step out of whoever they are and play as someone else. It's statements like you just made there that lead me to form the opinion that you're being bigoted. Players who wanted to play Andromeda in a particular way asked for a change that facilitated that sort of role play. It's no different than people wanting to play more renegade asking for more opportunities to do so. Their request doesn't make them part of any "certain group." (PS: It's not just people of color advocating for more and more accurate representation of persons of color within games as well.)
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 5, 2019 20:43:19 GMT
Things can only get better from here on out imo... after 3 BioWare games on frostbite they will have all the systems in place now prior to development so the development processes of future BioWare games should be much smoother, more productive and conducive to developing great games again after very rough transitional period which should finally start to bear fruit. Unfortunately, I am not holding my breath on this one. It's what we said after Inquisition. It's what we said after Andomeda. It's also not just BioWare, From everything I hear, Frostbite is just a really tough engine to adapt to anything really, especially when it comes to non-shooter mechnicas, large open world like design and third person mechanics.
I am really not one of the general EA bashers but I do wish they'd finally drop their Frostbite-for-everything policy and let studios choose the best engine for the job at hand.
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