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Post by alanc9 on Mar 5, 2019 20:50:58 GMT
Just because you didn't like Morda's feminist demeanor, doesn't mean that it's "lore breaking." As melbella pointed out, Krogan lore is filled with female warlords who are described to us as being particularly fierce. There is nothing in the game really, from the beginning, that says Krogan females can't be feminists. Again, it's an explanation you don't like... so, based on your statements about the language issue, I'm not surprised that you tend to "erase" the existence of that lore from the game entirely. Playing ME2 and 3..for me the game gave the impression that the male Krogans are the ones doing the heavy lifting and fighting and while it may be true that there are Female Krogan warlords, the game made it seem like these female Krogans where in the background mostly. I'll have to play those games again to listen to that info where it concerns female krogan warlords. Of course, since Bio didn't have a female krogan model for ME2 and ME3, females really were in the background. But this was no more significant for the krogan than it was for the turians. But as long as female krogan warlords are a thing -- and Shiagur rose to power after the genophage -- Morda can't actually be a lore problem. So yeah, drop it and move on How is Morda a checkoff list character, exactly? How were you expecting a female krogan warlord to behave? I get that this is more of a feeling than a reasoned position, but can you give it a shot?
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 5, 2019 20:53:40 GMT
I am really not one of the general EA bashers but I do wish they'd finally drop their Frostbite-for-everything policy and let studios choose the best engine for the job at hand. Of course, that would have its own problems. If Andromeda ran on a licensed engine, it's profit/loss statements would have ended up looking a bit different. Also, I'm not sure which engine they could have licensed for the project.
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 5, 2019 20:58:38 GMT
I am really not one of the general EA bashers but I do wish they'd finally drop their Frostbite-for-everything policy and let studios choose the best engine for the job at hand. Of course, that would have its own problems. If Andromeda ran on a licensed engine, it's profit/loss statements would have ended up looking a bit different. Also, I'm not sure which engine they could have licensed for the project. Well, that depends. If the kotaku article about the troubles in Andromeda's development is to be believed (and I do believe it because it fits perfectly with everything we've seen of the game), they'd have saved way more money by using a middle ware engine than they saved by using frostbite.
I mean, I never heard that ME1/2/3 got screwed because they used Unreal 3 either.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 6, 2019 12:19:39 GMT
Playing ME2 and 3..for me the game gave the impression that the male Krogans are the ones doing the heavy lifting and fighting and while it may be true that there are Female Krogan warlords, the game made it seem like these female Krogans where in the background mostly. I'll have to play those games again to listen to that info where it concerns female krogan warlords. Of course, since Bio didn't have a female krogan model for ME2 and ME3, females really were in the background. But this was no more significant for the krogan than it was for the turians. But as long as female krogan warlords are a thing -- and Shiagur rose to power after the genophage -- Morda can't actually be a lore problem. So yeah, drop it and move on How is Morda a checkoff list character, exactly? How were you expecting a female krogan warlord to behave? I get that this is more of a feeling than a reasoned position, but can you give it a shot? Alanc9....Me and Up already hashed out these issues...i'm done with the conversation and what you are asking about, I already gave my detailed statements on the issues in terms of Morda and Krogan Lore...a bit late to the party bro, but i'm not gonna explain all of that again....I didn't like Morda as a character and i felt she played into certain stereotypes....whereas we've had characters of all types in other Mass Effects games and such characters didn't feel like wooden props for a certain group.....if you need any more info and you can just go thru me and Up's conversation....
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Post by Serza on Mar 6, 2019 14:09:42 GMT
I'd just like to point out that the OP has made precisely five posts in this thread, all of them on page one and now is presumably jerking off over how y'all are arguing with each other.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 6, 2019 19:50:46 GMT
How is Morda a checkoff list character, exactly? How were you expecting a female krogan warlord to behave? I get that this is more of a feeling than a reasoned position, but can you give it a shot? Alanc9....Me and Up already hashed out these issues...i'm done with the conversation and what you are asking about, I already gave my detailed statements on the issues in terms of Morda and Krogan Lore...a bit late to the party bro, but i'm not gonna explain all of that again....I didn't like Morda as a character and i felt she played into certain stereotypes....whereas we've had characters of all types in other Mass Effects games and such characters didn't feel like wooden props for a certain group.....if you need any more info and you can just go thru me and Up's conversation.... I didn't think your answers made any more sense than UpUpAway did. Your evidence for Morda being badly written was literally that "it's eye-roiing obvious." And nothing more. If you can't actually articulate your position that's one thing, but pretending that you did is another.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 6, 2019 19:54:41 GMT
I'd just like to point out that the OP has made precisely five posts in this thread, all of them on page one and now is presumably jerking off over how y'all are arguing with each other. It's what we do.
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Post by Serza on Mar 6, 2019 22:10:44 GMT
I'd just like to point out that the OP has made precisely five posts in this thread, all of them on page one and now is presumably jerking off over how y'all are arguing with each other. It's what we do.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 6, 2019 22:21:30 GMT
I don't see why folks are going in on the OP...he's just giving his opinion on why he thinks the next game will bomb...given what we've seen in Andromeda, it's not ridiculous to think that it might happen. The overall writing and character development is what hurt Andromeda....even with the animation and glitches, Andromeda's issues was with it's core elements...Story and characters. And lets not forget the agenda inclusive writing...they had to delete a scene that had a character talking about how they was a transgender.... ....Making Jaal BI....the character of Morda (feminist)....which goes against the very lore of female Krogans....SAM being able to solve every roadblock in the game...if it wasn't for SAM for over several scenarios the game would have ended in the first hour or so.....bland writing...Cora's conversation branches are used up, before you're even through half way through the game....SAM open this door....SAM do this....Ryder couldn't do ANYTHING without SAM (It held his/her hand throughout the entire game)...where was the growth seen throughout the game from Ryder?.... And he did happen to do something without SAM towards the end there, but LOL.....the game doesn't really tell you how he does that...good `ol Space Magic i guess... So yeah, i would be a bit skeptical too if i wondered if there was any hope of a good Mass Effect game coming down the pike given what we seen in Andromeda.....regardless of how some folks enjoyed Andromeda, overall the game bombed and another game like Andromeda will tank the series for good. Don't treat characters like they are needed for some sort of checkoff list to make certain groups happy....I liked Kaiden and Jack.....they was written wonderfully and didn't feel forced or like they was written to please folks.....what was seen in Andromeda was just juvenile and embarrassing. I'm not sure if Bioware still has that magical talent to write a great story and characters first as opposed to making sure certain types of characters are in the game.....just make a game with a great story and characters and everything else will fall into place. What i have seen from Anthem, is that overall the story and characters seem to be better than what was seen in Andromeda and that is saying alot being that the game is focusing on looter aspects first and its story elements 2nd. I think a story can be told in Andromeda, (there are still mysteries and questions unanswered) but only if Bioware can stop the madness and tighten up their writing/ character and narratives aspects.... They didnt delete the trans scene. It's still there but moved to after you do quests for her.
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2019 1:40:32 GMT
First of all it is good to be back. Been quite a while since I last posted. Anyway, given the financial status of EA and their crappy corporate practices ... I present to you the reasons of future disappointments for the next Mass Effect Game: 1. NOT in the Milkyway. 2. Microtransaction (don’t give me that BS “optional purchase reasonings “). 3. Live service. 4. EA HAS NO FAITH in single player games.5. Foreign government restrictions on gambling. 6. Always online. 7. Low morale. 8. Corporate slavery. 9. Apex Legends. P.S. I get bashed alot since like what 4 years ago when the original BioWare forums was still operational despite me and my supporters had the same outlook especially on the save the milkyway thread. People should wake the F up and let Mass Effect die already instead of seeing it mutate into something worse than Andromeda. Or they can sell the franchise to CD Projekt Red or Obsidian because they are the ones who can actually make good RPG games.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 7, 2019 2:16:58 GMT
Alanc9....Me and Up already hashed out these issues...i'm done with the conversation and what you are asking about, I already gave my detailed statements on the issues in terms of Morda and Krogan Lore...a bit late to the party bro, but i'm not gonna explain all of that again....I didn't like Morda as a character and i felt she played into certain stereotypes....whereas we've had characters of all types in other Mass Effects games and such characters didn't feel like wooden props for a certain group.....if you need any more info and you can just go thru me and Up's conversation.... I didn't think your answers made any more sense than UpUpAway did. Your evidence for Morda being badly written was literally that "it's eye-roiing obvious." And nothing more. If you can't actually articulate your position that's one thing, but pretending that you did is another. If your reading comprehension skills are inept then I can't help with that...I gave detailed statements on why I felt the way I do about Morda….i'm not gonna bend backwards to say things differently to make you understand that. You yourself saw my statement and told me to "MOVE ON".....amnesia much?.....there is nothing more to say on this subject.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 7, 2019 2:33:27 GMT
First of all it is good to be back. Been quite a while since I last posted. Anyway, given the financial status of EA and their crappy corporate practices ... I present to you the reasons of future disappointments for the next Mass Effect Game: 1. NOT in the Milkyway. 2. Microtransaction (don’t give me that BS “optional purchase reasonings “). 3. Live service. 4. EA HAS NO FAITH in single player games.5. Foreign government restrictions on gambling. 6. Always online. 7. Low morale. 8. Corporate slavery. 9. Apex Legends. P.S. I get bashed alot since like what 4 years ago when the original BioWare forums was still operational despite me and my supporters had the same outlook especially on the save the milkyway thread. People should wake the F up and let Mass Effect die already instead of seeing it mutate into something worse than Andromeda. Or they can sell the franchise to CD Projekt Red or Obsidian because they are the ones who can actually make good RPG games. Um no. CDPR has one franchise under it's belt. Obsidian? Maybe but I'd prefer it stay with Bioware. They know what they are doing and where they want it to go.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 7, 2019 2:42:29 GMT
Or they can sell the franchise to CD Projekt Red or Obsidian because they are the ones who can actually make good RPG games. Um no. CDPR has one franchise under it's belt. Obsidian? Maybe but I'd prefer it stay with Bioware. They know what they are doing and where they want it to go. Id rather wait until either studio made a single game I thought was good until I’d even consider trusting them with BioWare IPs.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 7, 2019 2:45:43 GMT
Um no. CDPR has one franchise under it's belt. Obsidian? Maybe but I'd prefer it stay with Bioware. They know what they are doing and where they want it to go. Id rather wait until either studio made a single game I thought was good until I’d even consider trusting them with BioWare IPs. Well I like The Witcher games but that's apple's and Oranges imo.
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 7, 2019 6:55:34 GMT
Or they can sell the franchise to CD Projekt Red or Obsidian because they are the ones who can actually make good RPG games. Um no. CDPR has one franchise under it's belt. Obsidian? Maybe but I'd prefer it stay with Bioware. They know what they are doing and where they want it to go. I keep saying this. When a studio only has the job of making a single game for as long as it takes, of course it's going to be polished. If the BW studios (all of them) were told to make a new ME game and could take as long as they liked, and not get distracted by also making other games, then yeah we'd get something along the lines of what Cloud9 wants. I think he fails to see that if ME were handed off to CDPR (but why he thinks EA would do such a thing is incomprehensible), now you've split the team that was devoted solely to Cyberpunk 2077 to also spend time on ME. Cyberpunk 2077 is already taking incredibly long to be released. Imagine how long it would take with half the team? Yeah, we'd got a very polished game when it came out in 20 years from now.
As for Obsidian, call me unconvinced. Let's compare KOTOR (BioWare) to KOTOR 2 (Obsidian). Can you tell me which was better received? Neverwinter Nights 2 by Obsidian? Sales and ratings were better for Neverwinter Nights by BioWare. I'm not saying Obsidian makes bad games. They make great games and I'm really looking forward to Outer Worlds. I'm curious as to how many of these games are worked on at a time. If you add a second game into the mix, do we look at failure or watered down?
Cloud9 is never going to understand that any studio that works on multiple projects at a time is going to suffer for it. CDPR and Osidian ONLY work on one project at a time. If you change that then the odds of the quality he seeks goes down. The problem with MEA is that the studio screwed up an had to backtrack. I liked the game anyway but I do think it could be better in the hands of an "A team" that it didn't get. Cloud9 is too far from the realities of how it all works to even consider why ME would fare no better under another studio. It would remove all the things that make Mass Effect the game it has been. If they're going to do that, why not make an ME clone like Obsidian is doing with Fallout in Space? That would be the better solution and give us a clear idea of which studio would actually do better.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 9:58:13 GMT
Alanc9....Me and Up already hashed out these issues...i'm done with the conversation and what you are asking about, I already gave my detailed statements on the issues in terms of Morda and Krogan Lore...a bit late to the party bro, but i'm not gonna explain all of that again....I didn't like Morda as a character and i felt she played into certain stereotypes....whereas we've had characters of all types in other Mass Effects games and such characters didn't feel like wooden props for a certain group.....if you need any more info and you can just go thru me and Up's conversation.... I didn't think your answers made any more sense than UpUpAway did. Your evidence for Morda being badly written was literally that "it's eye-roiing obvious." And nothing more. If you can't actually articulate your position that's one thing, but pretending that you did is another. If I wasn't making sense, I'd be happy to clarify things. I never said that Morda was particularly well written... only that her demeanor wasn't "lore breaking" nor do I believe she was written to "cater to a certain group." (whoever that "certain" group actually is since clip7 has never actually named it). I doubt clips7 would have such an objection if Bioware had catered to people who found Ryder too paragon by writing Ryder to be more renegade.
I will go on to say that I don't think Morda is that terribly written. That is, what she says isn't really the issue. I believe the VA did a particularly poor job of bringing her to life, combined with a very poorly conceived and animated "fight" scene.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Mar 7, 2019 16:09:42 GMT
I didn't think your answers made any more sense than UpUpAway did. Your evidence for Morda being badly written was literally that "it's eye-roiing obvious." And nothing more. If you can't actually articulate your position that's one thing, but pretending that you did is another. If I wasn't making sense, I'd be happy to clarify things. I never said that Morda was particularly well written... only that her demeanor wasn't "lore breaking" nor do I believe she was written to "cater to a certain group." (whoever that "certain" group actually is since clip7 has never actually named it). I doubt clips7 would have such an objection if Bioware had catered to people who found Ryder too paragon by writing Ryder to be more renegade.
I will go on to say that I don't think Morda is that terribly written. That is, what she says isn't really the issue. I believe the VA did a particularly poor job of bringing her to life, combined with a very poorly conceived and animated "fight" scene.
Well that scene was hilarious... This is something that bugs me because morda is supposed to be female but she sounds like a man. Same with kesh.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 16:45:11 GMT
If I wasn't making sense, I'd be happy to clarify things. I never said that Morda was particularly well written... only that her demeanor wasn't "lore breaking" nor do I believe she was written to "cater to a certain group." (whoever that "certain" group actually is since clip7 has never actually named it). I doubt clips7 would have such an objection if Bioware had catered to people who found Ryder too paragon by writing Ryder to be more renegade.
I will go on to say that I don't think Morda is that terribly written. That is, what she says isn't really the issue. I believe the VA did a particularly poor job of bringing her to life, combined with a very poorly conceived and animated "fight" scene.
Well that scene was hilarious... This is something that bugs me because morda is supposed to be female but she sounds like a trans. Same with kesh. She's alien... how are they really supposed to sound?
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Post by AnDromedary on Mar 7, 2019 18:37:20 GMT
She's alien... how are they really supposed to sound? Like the other female aliens(?) Just replaying Andromeda at the moment. I am not on Elaaden yet but Kesh to me just sounds like a badass Krogan female. I love her, best one of the Nexus bunch.
I mean, they already established with Eve in ME3 that Krogan females apparently have very low register voices.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 7, 2019 18:53:50 GMT
She's alien... how are they really supposed to sound? Like the other female aliens(?) But then she wouldn't sound krogan.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Mar 7, 2019 18:59:13 GMT
Like the other female aliens(?) Just replaying Andromeda at the moment. I am not on Elaaden yet but Kesh to me just sounds like a badass Krogan female. I love her, best one of the Nexus bunch.
I mean, they already established with Eve in ME3 that Krogan females apparently have very low register voices.
I like her too. I see.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2019 19:21:09 GMT
She's alien... how are they really supposed to sound? Like the other female aliens(?) Where is it written in ME lore that all alien species have to sound alike and that "alike" means ultimately sound like humans? How does that translate to proving that Bioware had a motive to make her sound transgendered? Even if Bioware outright stated that it was their motive to make her sound transgendered, how does that translate to proving that they were "catering to a certain group" by doing so. Even if they were "catering" to individuals who wanted some possibly transgendered aliens in the series, how is that any "worse" than potentially catering to individuals who want a more renegade Ryder (because, I could potentially suggest that they fantasize about being criminally badasses above the law, etc. instead of 'good" paragon people).
Answer: It isn't and it doesn't. Her voice is the voice her VA gave her... and nothing more. Regardless of the pitch of her voice, I still don't find the delivery of the lines particularly engaging. Since she is supposed to hold a position of power, the lack of "authority" in the delivery of the lines makes the character, overall, somewhat underwhelming.
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Post by N7Pathfinder on Mar 7, 2019 19:55:42 GMT
Like the other female aliens(?) Where is it written in ME lore that all alien species have to sound alike and that "alike" means ultimately sound like humans? How does that translate to proving that Bioware had a motive to make her sound transgendered? Even if Bioware outright stated that it was their motive to make her sound transgendered, how does that translate to proving that they were "catering to a certain group" by doing so. Even if they were "catering" to individuals who wanted some possibly transgendered aliens in the series, how is that any "worse" than potentially catering to individuals who want a more renegade Ryder (because, I could potentially suggest that they fantasize about being criminally badasses above the law, etc. instead of 'good" paragon people).
Answer: It isn't and it doesn't. Her voice is the voice her VA gave her... and nothing more. Regardless of the pitch of her voice, I still don't find the delivery of the lines particularly engaging. Since she is supposed to hold a position of power, the lack of "authority" in the delivery of the lines makes the character, overall, somewhat underwhelming.
Nowhere...Having read the above comments and thinking of it for a sec, it actually makes sense.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 7, 2019 19:57:56 GMT
This reminds me when Lexi was revealed and some people were like “What? Asari can’t have British accents!”
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Post by cloud9 on Mar 7, 2019 21:32:29 GMT
Um no. CDPR has one franchise under it's belt. Obsidian? Maybe but I'd prefer it stay with Bioware. They know what they are doing and where they want it to go. I keep saying this. When a studio only has the job of making a single game for as long as it takes, of course it's going to be polished. If the BW studios (all of them) were told to make a new ME game and could take as long as they liked, and not get distracted by also making other games, then yeah we'd get something along the lines of what Cloud9 wants. I think he fails to see that if ME were handed off to CDPR (but why he thinks EA would do such a thing is incomprehensible), now you've split the team that was devoted solely to Cyberpunk 2077 to also spend time on ME. Cyberpunk 2077 is already taking incredibly long to be released. Imagine how long it would take with half the team? Yeah, we'd got a very polished game when it came out in 20 years from now.
As for Obsidian, call me unconvinced. Let's compare KOTOR (BioWare) to KOTOR 2 (Obsidian). Can you tell me which was better received? Neverwinter Nights 2 by Obsidian? Sales and ratings were better for Neverwinter Nights by BioWare. I'm not saying Obsidian makes bad games. They make great games and I'm really looking forward to Outer Worlds. I'm curious as to how many of these games are worked on at a time. If you add a second game into the mix, do we look at failure or watered down?
Cloud9 is never going to understand that any studio that works on multiple projects at a time is going to suffer for it. CDPR and Osidian ONLY work on one project at a time. If you change that then the odds of the quality he seeks goes down. The problem with MEA is that the studio screwed up an had to backtrack. I liked the game anyway but I do think it could be better in the hands of an "A team" that it didn't get. Cloud9 is too far from the realities of how it all works to even consider why ME would fare no better under another studio. It would remove all the things that make Mass Effect the game it has been. If they're going to do that, why not make an ME clone like Obsidian is doing with Fallout in Space? That would be the better solution and give us a clear idea of which studio would actually do better.
New Vegas that was developed by Obsidian proves otherwise, and it was one of the best RPGs to date. And CD Projekt Red has put quality in their games, (I mean look at the Witcher series) and are one of the most competent developers unlike BioWare. It has come to s point that BioWare might as well stop making games and pass the torch to someone else.
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