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Post by Fredward on Mar 11, 2019 18:46:59 GMT
To answer these questions we'd need to know how well Anthem sold, not necessarily wrt the expectations the execs set but in relation to Bioware's SP titles. A poor selling MMO looter shooter might still have blown Bioware's previous offerings out of the water in which case they might have learned a lesson, just not the lesson we would've preferred.
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Post by bizantura on Mar 16, 2019 14:10:15 GMT
Learn???
Bioware is devolving with every game that they make.
I am expecting a debacle of proportions from DA4 due to the implementation of life services that no doubt will be implemented.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 16, 2019 14:36:12 GMT
Well, there are a lot of lessons. I hope so. Specially what they shouldn't do right now is listen to people who don't understand anything about games and will just defend the shitty games they've made and just want more shit. This would drag them into the pit with no way back, and they're already pretty low.
I don't expect it to be so much SP focused or not having live services, I just want at least a good writing again. Good characters, a good story that makes sense and develops well, side quests that aren't only fetch quests, choices with actual consequences... it's not much to ask, is it? And yet this have been terribly lacking in their last games.
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Twitter Guru
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More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 16, 2019 18:41:05 GMT
Like ME:A, Anthem clearly had a very difficult time in development. And I'm sure we'll eventually learn there were a number of factors that contributed to this.
In the end they were likely forced to scope down, scope down, scope down until they ran out out of time/money and they had to put out the best game they could under the circumstances.
The question is, are the development challenges that game faced ones that DA could face? And we don't know that yet.
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Little Bengel
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Partying like it's 1999
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 16, 2019 19:24:02 GMT
I don't expect it to be so much SP focused or not having live services, I just want at least a good writing again. Good characters, a good story that makes sense and develops well, side quests that aren't only fetch quests, choices with actual consequences... it's not much to ask, is it? And yet this have been terribly lacking in their last games. Now that you brought that up, here's a fun little factoid, pointed out a couple of times by biggydx: Andromeda and Anthem both had the same lead writer in Cathleen Rootsaert. And it might be a coincidence, but both games were criticized for their stories, one-note villains, and for their MCU-ish "Quippy Shit TM" dialogue. She's not working on DA4 AFAIK, so we've got that going for us.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 16, 2019 19:29:16 GMT
I don't expect it to be so much SP focused or not having live services, I just want at least a good writing again. Good characters, a good story that makes sense and develops well, side quests that aren't only fetch quests, choices with actual consequences... it's not much to ask, is it? And yet this have been terribly lacking in their last games. Now that you brought that up, here's a fun little factoid, pointed out a couple of times by biggydx : Andromeda and Anthem both had the same lead writer in Cathleen Rootsaert. And it might be a coincidence, but both games were criticized for their stories, one-note villains, and for their MCU-ish "Quippy Shit TM" dialogue. She's not working on DA4 AFAIK, so we've got that going for us. I was relieved to hear that. I really don't like her writing style.
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Partying like it's 1999
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 16, 2019 19:35:40 GMT
Now that you brought that up, here's a fun little factoid, pointed out a couple of times by biggydx : Andromeda and Anthem both had the same lead writer in Cathleen Rootsaert. And it might be a coincidence, but both games were criticized for their stories, one-note villains, and for their MCU-ish "Quippy Shit TM" dialogue. She's not working on DA4 AFAIK, so we've got that going for us. I was relieved to hear that. I really don't like her writing style. Yeah. I'm starting to consider posting a thread on the known writing team so far, both here and on the DA subreddit. I think it'd help clear up a few things regarding potential misgivings over the writing. I might just do that.
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Post by anarchy65 on Mar 16, 2019 19:38:58 GMT
I don't expect it to be so much SP focused or not having live services, I just want at least a good writing again. Good characters, a good story that makes sense and develops well, side quests that aren't only fetch quests, choices with actual consequences... it's not much to ask, is it? And yet this have been terribly lacking in their last games. Now that you brought that up, here's a fun little factoid, pointed out a couple of times by biggydx : Andromeda and Anthem both had the same lead writer in Cathleen Rootsaert. And it might be a coincidence, but both games were criticized for their stories, one-note villains, and for their MCU-ish "Quippy Shit TM" dialogue. She's not working on DA4 AFAIK, so we've got that going for us. That's really good news for everyone that wants a good story. But some problems still date back even to Inquisition. Although it was a good game, it had some problems with the story that exploded in Andromeda: The ending where most of your choices don't matter. Also totally anticlimatic, final quest is done in less than 10 minutes. Cliché villain Lots and lots of fetch quests, side quests weren't very appealing Table quests that we just read and would be really more fun if we could actually play them. Not to mention stuff like "Hey inquisitor, your whole clan was massacred, sorry" that doesn't have any real impact on the story. Different from Andromeda, it still had a nice story and nice enough companions, not to mention a very nice base (although I wished it actually had an importance in the story), so this issues could be overlooked, but I don't look forward to see them again in DA4.
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Mar 16, 2019 20:07:20 GMT
I am not talking about if DA4 will be made or not, I mean are the lessons learned from Anthem?
The biggest lesson they can learn from Anthem is to not make a title as complex as a shared-world looter shooter on an engine that's already known for giving you problems.
Will it still have live service aspects?
Mike Gamble already confirmed this, and has mentioned they'll like try to have small story quests that will be added over time. How they choose to integrate it is important. Will this be the only way in which we get story content in Dragon Age, or will they handle it the AC:Odyssey route where add some small stories added every month or two, then drop traditional DLC 6+ months down the line. They could also add in recurrent activities to the world that includes new items, bosses, activities, and features to flesh out the game; like the golden nug statue (DA:I) that let you transfer your schematics to other saved characters. This would probably be the best compromise for fans, but with everything in game development, execution matters most.
Will it be more SP heavy?
Probably, though I imagine they'll try to include NPC's from the multiplayer aspect of the game into the main campaign. Andromeda did this with their Strike Force system (or whatever it was called). It had a Turian who was the liaison between the two modes, and doing multiplayer would give you bonuses in singleplayer; like weapons and crafting materials.
How will the writing, especially of NPCs change?
Cathleen Rootsaert ain't doin' the story, so that's already means a better story. As soon as she took over as lead writer for Anthem and Andromeda, you could see immediate changes to BioWare's writing style. Whether DA:I reaches the heights of BioWare's previous titles, or their competitors, is up in the air. Me personally, I just want a coherent, functional story and at least some memorable moments and characters at this point.
What about the open world aspects and how lively it is and not another Fort Tarsis vibes for its hubs?
I'm torn on this because DA:I was such a mixed bag when it came to level design and open world engagement. There was definitely a lack of immersion to the open world, side quests in these areas were often mere fetch/kill quests, and the only real dynamic elements that inspired any awe were the Dragons. Then I think about how aesthestically diverse the environments were in that game. There's also how they did the Crestwood story arc. Here's an example of a story quest that irrevocably changed the open world based on the players actions, and blended action and world building together in a pretty solid way. It's a two part problem BioWare's going to have to solve. 1) How do you create more Crestwood like experiences in the open world, but 2) also ensure that the world itself (not matter what state its in) is engrossing for the player?
Will it come out sooner than expected in order to quickly get the bad Anthem taste out of everyone's mouth? Could E3 2019 feature more DA4 than what was previously planned?
I've still got the game panned for late 2021/early 2022. By then, there will have been a 6-7 year difference in between it and DA:I. They've technically got a foundation with DA:I that they can work off of, but that doesn't ensure that them possibly wanting to expand out the environments is going to be easy either. What concerns me most is that Anthem had to have likely pulled devs - who were working on DA4 - away in order to get it into a shippable state. How much development time was lost because of that? Even then, will 6-7 years even matter in the end if BioWare just doesn't have what it takes to make a great game from the get-go anyhow? Anthem was a 6 year project with - as BioWare claims - no EA interference. Biggest problem that could tank DA4 could just be BioWare being too ambitious and mismanaging the game.
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