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Post by colfoley on Mar 6, 2019 1:18:33 GMT
Jesus christ, knock it off. The only reason anybody comes to any online forum is a lack of better things to do. Am currently desperately looking for ways to increase the health on my magical Templar after they got beaten into the ground over and over yesterday but what I'm certain is an overly smug, fat, winged snake. Just get into a rap battle with the thing, it worked for Bilbo.
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Post by melbella on Mar 6, 2019 2:48:13 GMT
People that dont want any MP need to get a reality check. Why? I'm perfectly happy not playing any MP in my SP games, or any MP at all actually.
Between shitty connections, grinding for decent gear, and generally being nothing but a time sink....why would I want MP?
Give me weapon and armor packs for my SP game and I'll buy them. DLC for my SP game? I'll buy it. Dragon décor for Skyhold? LET ME BUY IT ALREADY!
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 6, 2019 3:33:29 GMT
People that dont want any MP need to get a reality check. Why? I'm perfectly happy not playing any MP in my SP games, or any MP at all actually.
Between shitty connections, grinding for decent gear, and generally being nothing but a time sink....why would I want MP?
Give me weapon and armor packs for my SP game and I'll buy them. DLC for my SP game? I'll buy it. Dragon décor for Skyhold? LET ME BUY IT ALREADY!
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. Multiplayer uses the same resources and art as single player and is often constructed using mechanics also used in the single player game. BioWare games in particular don't have a unique multiplayer experience distinct from the single player game. There isn't any evidence that multiplayer prospects can add to the single player game's budget but if one is willing to believe that MP cuts from SP costs despite there being no evidence then you can probably believe this as well if your agenda leaned in a different direction. Point is multiplayer is a significant asset that can supplement a single player game. A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model. Even purely "SP" games have lootboxes and microtransactions. And ultimately your opinion, while shared by many, is also disagreed upon by many. Assassin's Creed Odyssey contained all that you mentioned and people still roasted it for having microtransactions.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 6, 2019 3:53:07 GMT
Why? I'm perfectly happy not playing any MP in my SP games, or any MP at all actually.
Between shitty connections, grinding for decent gear, and generally being nothing but a time sink....why would I want MP?
Give me weapon and armor packs for my SP game and I'll buy them. DLC for my SP game? I'll buy it. Dragon décor for Skyhold? LET ME BUY IT ALREADY!
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. Multiplayer uses the same resources and art as single player and is often constructed using mechanics also used in the single player game. BioWare games in particular don't have a unique multiplayer experience distinct from the single player game. There isn't any evidence that multiplayer prospects can add to the single player game's budget but if one is willing to believe that MP cuts from SP costs despite there being no evidence then you can probably believe this as well if your agenda leaned in a different direction. Point is multiplayer is a significant asset that can supplement a single player game. A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model. Even purely "SP" games like Horizon had lootboxes and microtransactions. And ultimately your opinion, while shared by many, is also disagreed upon by many. Assassin's Creed Odyssey contained all that you mentioned and people still roasted it for having microtransactions. While not roasting Horizon of course because EA and agendas. HZD had microtransactions? Fascinating.
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Post by Frost on Mar 6, 2019 4:29:29 GMT
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. That's because multiplayer does detract from single player. ME3 (EMS) is one example. A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model. It would be if publishers weren't so greedy. Even purely "SP" games like Horizon had lootboxes and microtransactions. What microtransactions are in HZD?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 6, 2019 4:40:55 GMT
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. That's because multiplayer does detract from single player. ME3 (EMS) is one example. A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model. It would be if publishers weren't so greedy. Even purely "SP" games like Horizon had lootboxes and microtransactions. What microtransactions are in HZD? Be salty about ME3 base game requiring players to do multiplayer missions to get enough war assets for the best ending if you like, but an extremely basic score-point bar is hardly evidence of resources being diverted from SP to MP. I don't understand why people insist on clinging to this "MP stealing from SP" conspiracy theory. The reality of the situation (that a game without at least some form of multiplayer might not get funded AT ALL) is actually far more alarming. Lol.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 6, 2019 4:43:33 GMT
Also, can we dispense with the term "microtransactions" already? Most products of this nature cost several dollars these days. A cup of coffee isn't a "microtransaction", and neither are these.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 6, 2019 4:49:14 GMT
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. That's because multiplayer does detract from single player. ME3 (EMS) is one example. The what now? How is this relevant to development costs? One could achieve max EMS and then some without ever touching MP. That MP can supplement the SP experience indirectly is hardly a problem. Bahahaha. This is rich. Games provide dozens of hours of entertainment at such a cost efficient rate that it's outright hilarious how game's still cost in the range of 60$
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Post by Frost on Mar 6, 2019 4:58:15 GMT
One could achieve max EMS and then some without ever touching MP. It wasn't possible to achieve max EMS without ever touching MP when I bought and played ME3, which was at launch.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 6, 2019 4:58:59 GMT
*is in Australia where new AAA games cost upwards of $90 and even $100 for no good reason*
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 6, 2019 5:00:22 GMT
*is in Australia where new AAA games cost upwards of $90 and even $100 for no good reason* That's usually monetary conversion or tariffs at work. Yeah 1 AUSD = 0.7 USD so a 60$ game in the USA costs ~85$ in AUS
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Post by river82 on Mar 6, 2019 6:27:30 GMT
*is in Australia where new AAA games cost upwards of $90 and even $100 for no good reason* That's usually monetary conversion or tariffs at work. Yeah 1 AUSD = 0.7 USD so a 60$ game in the USA costs ~85$ in AUS I tried to read some articles on it years ago, but economics is something I'm very bad at and I got lost a few paragraphs in www.kotaku.com.au/2010/11/why-do-videogames-cost-so-much/
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 6, 2019 6:45:20 GMT
One could achieve max EMS and then some without ever touching MP. It wasn't possible to achieve max EMS without ever touching MP when I bought and played ME3, which was at launch. Indeed. They only reduced it later after sticking their heads in the sand.
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 6, 2019 7:39:03 GMT
It would be if publishers weren't so greedy. Bahahaha. This is rich. Games provide dozens of hours of entertainment at such a cost efficient rate that it's outright hilarious how game's still cost in the range of 60$ Both Andrew Wilson (EA) and Bobby Kotick (Activision) are in the top 100 list of overpaid CEOs compared to company performance. Sure, you can get a lot of entertainment for the 60$ or € you paid for a good game, but that doesn't mean that some suits aren't greedy. Games are often totally worth the money - if only said money would always go to the people that actually made it. And some games are released in such a messy state that I couldn't recommend buying them in good conscience.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 6, 2019 12:21:07 GMT
Well, we should remind EA that people who play video games don't, have, friends. And frankly, they detest other people, that's why they play video games. Trying to force GAMERS into a social setting just isn't profitable, and is frankly, very offensive and republican of them. *facepalm* You and i might not like it but the power of games has always been interacting with, enjoying, and shaping a story with friends. Its one of the unique advantages of games. That being said of course I'd prefer DA4 remaining SP focused but there is a reason the market exists. Funny....I dont ever remember my friends being the reason why I enjoyed A Link to the Past, Doom, or KOTOR.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 6, 2019 12:27:45 GMT
There is probably little we can do aside from voting with our wallets and EA does follow trends and recently there have been some really good SP games out there. And some really bad MP games as well....
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 6, 2019 12:32:47 GMT
Why? I'm perfectly happy not playing any MP in my SP games, or any MP at all actually.
Between shitty connections, grinding for decent gear, and generally being nothing but a time sink....why would I want MP?
Give me weapon and armor packs for my SP game and I'll buy them. DLC for my SP game? I'll buy it. Dragon décor for Skyhold? LET ME BUY IT ALREADY!
People often think that multiplayer detracts from single player when there isn't a shred of evidence that this is the case. Multiplayer uses the same resources and art as single player and is often constructed using mechanics also used in the single player game. BioWare games in particular don't have a unique multiplayer experience distinct from the single player game. There isn't any evidence that multiplayer prospects can add to the single player game's budget but if one is willing to believe that MP cuts from SP costs despite there being no evidence then you can probably believe this as well if your agenda leaned in a different direction. Point is multiplayer is a significant asset that can supplement a single player game. A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model. Even purely "SP" games have lootboxes and microtransactions. And ultimately your opinion, while shared by many, is also disagreed upon by many. Assassin's Creed Odyssey contained all that you mentioned and people still roasted it for having microtransactions. God of War wants you to hold their beer. I guess Sony Santa Monica is going to go out of business because according to you: "A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model."
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 6, 2019 17:10:31 GMT
Be salty about ME3 base game requiring players to do multiplayer missions to get enough war assets for the best ending if you like, but an extremely basic score-point bar is hardly evidence of resources being diverted from SP to MP. It's never been really clear how that happened. Several Bio staffers flatly denied that the top EMS requirement required MP or using the mobile app in the first week or so after release; they only stopped saying that after players exhaustively documented the situation. However that decision was made, it doesn't seem to have been communicated well internally. Assuming there was any decision and not, say, a simple math error.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 6, 2019 17:13:50 GMT
God of War wants you to hold their beer. I guess Sony Santa Monica is going to go out of business because according to you: "A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model." *shrugs* Maybe he overstated it a bit. But GoW being workable doesn't mean that Bio RPGs are workable without MP, at their current production value levels. (Obviously Bio could pivot down to something like Pillars of Eternity too.)
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 6, 2019 17:17:59 GMT
It's never been really clear how that happened. Several Bio staffers flatly denied that the top EMS requirement required MP or using the mobile app in the first week or so after release; they only stopped saying that after players exhaustively documented the situation. However that decision was made, it doesn't seem to have been communicated well internally. Assuming there was any decision and not, say, a simple math error. Even if they didn't mislead or lie to players, them being incompetent is hardly better. And as you say, the change wouldn't have been made if fans hadn't "exhaustively documented the situation" to prove that was the case. They had to be forced, which helps make the case that they did mislead players. If it was a genuine mistake, it seems like they would have shown more concern and sought to rectify it on their own initiative after complaints started rolling in.
Because of that whole debacle, MP in SP games, and more specifically Bioware games, will be looked on with suspicion by players that want nothing to do with it. Sure, stick your MP in the game as a side thing. I don't care. But I don't want one iota of it infecting my singleplayer experience. Bioware made their bed with ME3, and they will have to lie in the sheets of player paranoia as a result.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 6, 2019 19:34:21 GMT
Sure. I'm just pointing out that the evidence favors incompetence, not saying that it was OK. FWIW, there's also a variant where a higher-up wants to push MP because his bonus is tied to microtransaction revenue or some such, so he changes the numbers without telling anyone.
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Post by mmoblitz on Mar 7, 2019 0:36:33 GMT
Secondly I wasn't bemoaning anything, I made a comment in passing.
On a forum for games you don't enjoy, in a thread by one fan asking other fans what they could do to preserve the single-player campaign experienced from the other games. That, again, you don't enjoy anymore.
Strange place to chat about the weather, river82.
One thing that might work is prompting EA and BioWare to consider avenues of monetisation that JRPGs employ. Lots of JRPGs that lack online components otherwise, sell small DLC like character skins, "time-saver" items and, in the case of monster-collecting games like Persona 5 and World of Final Fantasy, special monsters for your party that you won't find in-game. Ooooooooh ... Assassin's Creed Odyssey had that whole thing with the XP packs. I don't know if that's a good idea. I wouldn't mind seeing them sell more "stand-alone" stories in the vein of Leliana's Song, though. I hate grinding in games and microtransactions of any kind in a SP game, but I'm on my second play through of Odyssey and I haven't bought a thing from that store and I got through the game just fine. No grinding was needed for upgrades or to keep my level moving. Now if you don't want to collect any resources while your out running around or you don't do any side questing then you will run into problems advancing at a decent pace, but that is a personal problem, not bad game design. Odyssey is the only game that I have played that had a store with XP boosts as well as being able to purchase resources that I felt weren't needed to advance. Unless you want to ignore half the content, the game doesn't feel like it punishes you for not paying up.
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Post by Frost on Mar 7, 2019 1:47:16 GMT
Even if they didn't mislead or lie to players, them being incompetent is hardly better. And as you say, the change wouldn't have been made if fans hadn't "exhaustively documented the situation" to prove that was the case. They had to be forced, which helps make the case that they did mislead players. If it was a genuine mistake, it seems like they would have shown more concern and sought to rectify it on their own initiative after complaints started rolling in. Because of that whole debacle, MP in SP games, and more specifically Bioware games, will be looked on with suspicion by players that want nothing to do with it. Sure, stick your MP in the game as a side thing. I don't care. But I don't want one iota of it infecting my singleplayer experience. Bioware made their bed with ME3, and they will have to lie in the sheets of player paranoia as a result.
This. They would have fixed it right away if it had been a bug. It didn't require anything time consuming like animation or VO.
No multiplayer infecting single player for DA4!
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 7, 2019 2:41:36 GMT
God of War wants you to hold their beer. I guess Sony Santa Monica is going to go out of business because according to you: "A pure SP experience with no microtransactions and no MP is no longer a sustainable business model." *shrugs* Maybe he overstated it a bit. But GoW being workable doesn't mean that Bio RPGs are workable without MP, at their current production value levels. (Obviously Bio could pivot down to something like Pillars of Eternity too.) I guess Insomniac is going to go out of business because of Horizon Zero Dawn Maybe Ghost of Tsushima will cause Sucker Punch to go out of business as well.
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Post by river82 on Mar 7, 2019 5:42:59 GMT
Then why bemoan others preferring Apex Legends and Fortnite? Actually, this was completely on point even if he didn't mean it to be. People are voting for MP with their dollars and their time. And Apex Legends has just hit 50 million players 4 times faster than Fortnite. 50 million players. Well shit, AAA single player games are not looking in a good spot right now ... C'est la vie
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