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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2019 20:50:40 GMT
So to report, you can play 'live service' games offline.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 21:18:42 GMT
So to report, you can play 'live service' games offline. "Live service" generally means, in the broadest of terms, that there will be more content after the game has been released. Technically, all of the DA games have been thus far. I imagine that, if they make this a more official thing for DA4, that there might be further chapters and such that are released afterward, like FFXV.
However, that model shouldn't exactly give people thrills, either. Something like half of the originally-planned FFXV chapters were cancelled.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2019 21:35:16 GMT
So to report, you can play 'live service' games offline. "Live service" generally means, in the broadest of terms, that there will be more content after the came has been released. Technically, all of the DA games have been thus far. I imagine that, if they make this a more official thing for DA4, that there might be further chapters and such that are released afterward, like FFXV.
However, that model shouldn't exactly give people thrills, either. Something like half of the originally-planned FFXV chapters were cancelled.
i know. Just a lot of people confuse the term with either always online, or multiplayer. And then criticise live service on those grounds.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 10, 2019 22:02:52 GMT
Live service games are not “base games plus DLC,” and it’s misleading to define them as such.
They are single-player or multiplayer games that incorporate elements of the free-to-play model, ie. lootboxes and other microtransactions. Their focus is providing an initial experience and then continuously rolling out new content to keep players hooked longer and thus purchasing more microtransactions.
Thus, many live service games actually offer relatively little content at release to facilitate the rollout of more content later.
The problem with the live service games is that they’re all competing for a finite amount of player time. If I’m playing Warframe and Apex Legends and Anthem and the odd SP game like the Resident Evil 2 remake, when am I going to find time to play The Division 2? The answer: either skip The Division 2 or drop one of the other games. (Probably Anthem.)
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Post by colfoley on Mar 10, 2019 23:58:38 GMT
Live service games are not “base games plus DLC,” and it’s misleading to define them as such. They are single-player or multiplayer games that incorporate elements of the free-to-play model, ie. lootboxes and other microtransactions. Their focus is providing an initial experience and then continuously rolling out new content to keep players hooked longer and thus purchasing more microtransactions. Thus, many live service games actually offer relatively little content at release to facilitate the rollout of more content later. The problem with the live service games is that they’re all competing for a finite amount of player time. If I’m playing Warframe and Apex Legends and Anthem and the odd SP game like the Resident Evil 2 remake, when am I going to find time to play The Division 2? The answer: either skip The Division 2 or drop one of the other games. (Probably Anthem.) you play what you can when you can. I haven't played ghost recon wildlands in months, i came back to it yesterday and was quite pleased to see a new mission.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 11, 2019 3:11:42 GMT
So to report, you can play 'live service' games offline. "Live service" generally means, in the broadest of terms, that there will be more content after the game has been released. Technically, all of the DA games have been thus far. I imagine that, if they make this a more official thing for DA4, that there might be further chapters and such that are released afterward, like FFXV.
However, that model shouldn't exactly give people thrills, either. Something like half of the originally-planned FFXV chapters were cancelled.
FFXV fucking sucked, though. Putting it out of its misery was the right thing to do.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 11, 2019 3:36:43 GMT
Live service games are not “base games plus DLC,” and it’s misleading to define them as such. They are single-player or multiplayer games that incorporate elements of the free-to-play model, ie. lootboxes and other microtransactions. Their focus is providing an initial experience and then continuously rolling out new content to keep players hooked longer and thus purchasing more microtransactions. Thus, many live service games actually offer relatively little content at release to facilitate the rollout of more content later. The problem with the live service games is that they’re all competing for a finite amount of player time. If I’m playing Warframe and Apex Legends and Anthem and the odd SP game like the Resident Evil 2 remake, when am I going to find time to play The Division 2? The answer: either skip The Division 2 or drop one of the other games. (Probably Anthem.) you play what you can when you can. I haven't played ghost recon wildlands in months, i came back to it yesterday and was quite pleased to see a new mission. And when it turns out that Dragon Age 4 is a live service shitshow on the level of Anthem? I don’t know if you visit Reddit, but I checked in there today and they’re talking about “blackouts” - is. everyone walking away from the game for a while.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 11, 2019 3:44:19 GMT
you play what you can when you can. I haven't played ghost recon wildlands in months, i came back to it yesterday and was quite pleased to see a new mission. And when it turns out that Dragon Age 4 is a live service shitshow on the level of Anthem? I don’t know if you visit Reddit, but I checked in there today and they’re talking about “blackouts” - is. everyone walking away from the game for a while. Any game could just straight-up not work, with or without live service elements.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2019 4:33:30 GMT
you play what you can when you can. I haven't played ghost recon wildlands in months, i came back to it yesterday and was quite pleased to see a new mission. And when it turns out that Dragon Age 4 is a live service shitshow on the level of Anthem? I don’t know if you visit Reddit, but I checked in there today and they’re talking about “blackouts” - is. everyone walking away from the game for a while. I'm not sure what your point is. Unless your suggesting that such a blackout would effect them releasing more content but even then *shrugs*. Not sure if it will change anything in how i will play the game. If theres more content great if not then the content in the base game will be more then sufficient if every LS game I've played is any indication.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 11, 2019 5:12:24 GMT
My point is that a live service format is likely going to hurt the game, not help it. The story is going to be stripped to the bare minimum to accommodate this crap - I can feel it. My experience with this LIIIIIVE SEEEERVICE nonsense has always been negative.
And then the bad reviews will come, and then the player base will drop off. And then that’ll be the end of Dragon Age, if not BioWare.
And we’ll all be right regardless, because at the end of the day it’s just a video game series. But I’ll still mourn the series’ passing.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2019 6:06:00 GMT
My point is that a live service format is likely going to hurt the game, not help it. The story is going to be stripped to the bare minimum to accommodate this crap - I can feel it. My experience with this LIIIIIVE SEEEERVICE nonsense has always been negative. And then the bad reviews will come, and then the player base will drop off. And then that’ll be the end of Dragon Age, if not BioWare. And we’ll all be right regardless, because at the end of the day it’s just a video game series. But I’ll still mourn the series’ passing. i suppose pessismism is a warranted defense mechanism but i personally can't be more excited. Gaming is doing more of what I've been wanting them to do, even stuff i had no idea i wanted.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 11, 2019 16:20:49 GMT
My point is that a live service format is likely going to hurt the game, not help it. The story is going to be stripped to the bare minimum to accommodate this crap - I can feel it. My experience with this LIIIIIVE SEEEERVICE nonsense has always been negative. And then the bad reviews will come, and then the player base will drop off. And then that’ll be the end of Dragon Age, if not BioWare. And we’ll all be right regardless, because at the end of the day it’s just a video game series. But I’ll still mourn the series’ passing. Yeah and what would be the point of having things like the keep and such set up in the first place after all wasn't it designed so we could take our world histories along with us as we play the series. Personally I don't see how we can do that on a live service game or for those that have different playthrough's with various protagonists. I think the best way to keep this going is not to change what they've already been doing and that is give us a base game and if they want to make extra money out of said game give us some extra DLC to go along with it. Like extra outfits/armour like the Avvar/Qunari sets or extra missions such as Descent or Jaws of Hakkon. That's a good and fair way to do it if they want to make more out of a game. Also if they want to do things on the microtransactions side they can still do that through the MP so long as it's kept to cosmetic stuff I suspect. I don't personally feel making single player a live service thing where you always have to be online to play will work especially given some areas don't exactly have reliable connections and if they can't get a reliable one then they can't play the game. I don't know about you but it just sounds to me like they'd end up punishing people for having a bad connection. It almost feels like DA in the respect that mages are locked up just because they can use magic whereas the average Joe can't At least with games like DAI yes you need to be online to import your world state but once it's imported and you've got your playthrough underway it doesn't matter if you lose connection as it'll just say it's lost connection but you can still continue to play at your leisure. It just means that anything that's done during the time you're offline will just have to be manually input into the keep for the next game which is pretty straightforward to do anyway really. Assuming you plan on carrying that playthrough on that is.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2019 17:40:47 GMT
My point is that a live service format is likely going to hurt the game, not help it. The story is going to be stripped to the bare minimum to accommodate this crap - I can feel it. My experience with this LIIIIIVE SEEEERVICE nonsense has always been negative. And then the bad reviews will come, and then the player base will drop off. And then that’ll be the end of Dragon Age, if not BioWare. And we’ll all be right regardless, because at the end of the day it’s just a video game series. But I’ll still mourn the series’ passing. Yeah and what would be the point of having things like the keep and such set up in the first place after all wasn't it designed so we could take our world histories along with us as we play the series. Personally I don't see how we can do that on a live service game or for those that have different playthrough's with various protagonists. I think the best way to keep this going is not to change what they've already been doing and that is give us a base game and if they want to make extra money out of said game give us some extra DLC to go along with it. Like extra outfits/armour like the Avvar/Qunari sets or extra missions such as Descent or Jaws of Hakkon. That's a good and fair way to do it if they want to make more out of a game. Also if they want to do things on the microtransactions side they can still do that through the MP so long as it's kept to cosmetic stuff I suspect. I don't personally feel making single player a live service thing where you always have to be online to play will work especially given some areas don't exactly have reliable connections and if they can't get a reliable one then they can't play the game. I don't know about you but it just sounds to me like they'd end up punishing people for having a bad connection. It almost feels like DA in the respect that mages are locked up just because they can use magic whereas the average Joe can't At least with games like DAI yes you need to be online to import your world state but once it's imported and you've got your playthrough underway it doesn't matter if you lose connection as it'll just say it's lost connection but you can still continue to play at your leisure. It just means that anything that's done during the time you're offline will just have to be manually input into the keep for the next game which is pretty straightforward to do anyway really. Assuming you plan on carrying that playthrough on that is. you can play without internet for a live service game. Ls does not mean "always online" Why can't we take our histories with us when we play live? Ls won't change the dragon age series one iota. All it means is we get more content and maybe microtransactions.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 11, 2019 17:52:20 GMT
you can play without internet for a live service game. Ls does not mean "always online" It invariably does, unless you can offer an example of a game specifically labelled as a live service that doesn’t. The only partial example I can think of is Star Wars Battlefront II. I don’t think you needed to be online to play the campaign.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 11, 2019 17:59:24 GMT
you can play without internet for a live service game. Ls does not mean "always online" It invariably does, unless you can offer an example of a game specifically labelled as a live service that doesn’t. ghost recon wildlands. Pretty sure every ls game I've played actually but i haven't tested it out.
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Post by luketrevelyan on Mar 11, 2019 18:02:55 GMT
I'd be perfectly ok if I never heard "live service" or "microtransaction" again in my life.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 11, 2019 18:59:38 GMT
I'd be perfectly ok if I never heard "live service" or "microtransaction" again in my life. Unfortunately I suspect Microtranasctions are here to stay but hopefully for the purposes of singleplayer Live services aren't
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Mar 11, 2019 19:01:35 GMT
you can play without internet for a live service game. Ls does not mean "always online" It invariably does, unless you can offer an example of a game specifically labelled as a live service that doesn’t. The only partial example I can think of is Star Wars Battlefront II. I don’t think you needed to be online to play the campaign. Yeah I always thought so too that's why it's called a live service.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 12, 2019 3:17:22 GMT
I'd be perfectly ok if I never heard "live service" or "microtransaction" again in my life. I'm sure most of us on these forums don't care for either as we're here for the lore and dating simulators but ignoring the inevitable is pointless.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 3:40:12 GMT
I'd be perfectly ok if I never heard "live service" or "microtransaction" again in my life. I'm sure most of us on these forums don't care for either as we're here for the lore and dating simulators but ignoring the inevitable is pointless. I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction.
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Mar 12, 2019 4:36:33 GMT
I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction. This. If I'm paying $60+ for a game, I sure as shit had better be getting the complete game. Not a Beta disguised as early-access. Not a 'vanilla' game where I'm going to have to pay another chunk of income on an 'expansion' or DLC that was deliberately cut from the main game (See: From Ashes DLC for ME3).
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 4:52:31 GMT
I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction. This. If I'm paying $60+ for a game, I sure as shit had better be getting the complete game. Not a Beta disguised as early-access. Not a 'vanilla' game where I'm going to have to pay another chunk of income on an 'expansion' or DLC that was deliberately cut from the main game (See: From Ashes DLC for ME3). Well, I mean, even for mobile games and the like, the smallest pack of 'premium currency' often costs over $5 in Australian money. That's not a "micro" anything. That's a coffee and a donut.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 12, 2019 5:09:08 GMT
I'm sure most of us on these forums don't care for either as we're here for the lore and dating simulators but ignoring the inevitable is pointless. I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction. not really. It simply suggests much cheaper purchases within something that costs a lot. Whether you can afford them or want them is up to you.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 12, 2019 5:18:27 GMT
I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction. not really. It simply suggests much cheaper purchases within something that costs a lot. Whether you can afford them or want them is up to you. I'd argue that size isn't all that relevant, money is money, and having personally watched a family member spend hundreds of dollars on "microtransactions" in Farmville, I'm extremely wary of this terminology. I'm convinced that companies use it deliberately. A "micro" transaction is not fundamentally different from a "regular" transaction, but the intended psychological effect of the term is to make customers feel as though they aren't "really" spending money at all.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Mar 12, 2019 12:40:45 GMT
I'm sure most of us on these forums don't care for either as we're here for the lore and dating simulators but ignoring the inevitable is pointless. I just think the term "microtransaction" is misleading/harmful. It suggests that the purchase has no impact on one's finances, or should not be regarded with the same scrutiny as any other transaction. Well no this is hyperbolic. Microtransactions are just transactions engaged in the game that are typically between 1-20$ in value. The nomenclature is irrelevant. You're still spending money and it doesn't affect your finances any more than any other expense. Your argument implies that humans don't typically approve of smaller purchases in any field. 5$ here. 5$ there. It racks up, but that applies to any expense we have even in the real world. It is not specific to the term "microtransaction" nor does it fool anyone in any unique manner. And you are perceiving the amount (as your above post mentions) out of context. One can spend "hundreds of dollars in microtransactions" as you said, but that's money they spend on a particular hobby they play. How much did that person play Farmville? Dozens of hours? Hundreds? Thousands? When viewed from a holistic perspective compared to other forms of entertainment, it's the summary equivalent of buying concert tickets and merchandise from your favorite artist, buying drinks at a bar after paying an entry fee, or buying a movie on Amazon prime or going to the movies to watch while purchasing food items. One can easily spend "hundreds of dollars" over time either way, and in most cases they are also engaging in "microtransactions". Would you fault people for doing so? Once again this is an example of video games being held to an unfair standard. One can argue that video games, as a relatively new industry, are just picking up what we consider normal for most other forms of entertainment, but being in the digital sphere somehow makes their sales more sketchy for some reason. Microtransactions are ONLY problematic when they affect all players' experience (pay to win), are arguably forced (progression limitations), or are held under the sway of RNG (as this should be considered gambling). There is absolutely nothing wrong with a video game having an in-game store for cosmetic and booster purchases. If one considers that a problem, then why dont you consider game memorabilia shops problematic? They are arguably the same thing. In single-player games, the actual impact of gameplay-beneficial purchases is even more of a grey area than in multiplayer. As long as the game is balanced around the base experience, why would you care if someone wanted to buy a Staff of Overpowered Early Levels? It's what made me laugh in ACO. I didn't spend one penny and I completed the game easily while looking swag. If someone wanted some of those store items, more power to them. One particular point of contention is how microtransactions can affect modding experiences, as the former inevitably DOES detract from the potential of the for the latter. This is probably the single best argument against microtransactions in a game like Dragon Age. Fantasy RPGs typically attract a much larger modding crowd than other genres as they usually have the highest concentration of roleplayers. It's why I would personally prefer Dragon Age feature a multiplayer rather than a microtransaction shop. I want modders to have relatively unrestricted access, and frankly I have faith that BioWare sees that too. Although I do recall even DA games having some items you can purchase (DA2 had some class packs) and you could still mod the game normally, so even then it might not even be an issue. One can argue that additional packs unlock aesthetic options that can later be used by modders (just like in DA2 and Skyrim).
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