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Post by degs29 on Mar 6, 2019 20:18:47 GMT
When considering a Milky Way sequel, there's always one big, glaring issue: Control, Destroy or Synthesis? Many people want to continue their chosen narrative, so having the devs choose a canon ending would fly in the face of much of what BioWare tried to achieve. However, this presents a significant roadblock to future ME installments in the MW. BioWare doesn't have the resources to make a sequel that fully reflects the scope of all three distinct choices, nor do I think it's reasonable to expect them to try. That leaves three options. One, never set another ME in the MW after the events of ME3. Two, retcon the ending in some way so that a sequel can have the same narrative regardless of choice (this would likely be a dissatisfying way of handling things). Or three, choose one of the three options as canon.
I wonder...BioWare has access to stats that reveal exactly how many players chose Control, how many Destroy, and how many Synthesis. If they simply took the most popular one, based on those stats, and made it canon, would you accept that?
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Post by KrrKs on Mar 6, 2019 21:00:46 GMT
There is really only a decision between option two and three. Never setting a foot in the MW again is (hopefully) not actually lasting forever. So a choice would have to be made eventually.
I find option two, i.e., retcon that limits the effect of the choice or combines them, similar to what the Deus Ex sequels did, much more acceptable than option three.
Choosing a specific ending as canon would completely devalue any differing choice of any Shepard that took a different choice. If one of these decisions is already void, 'because <Colour> is now canon', all trilogy choices become void as that Shepard obviously was not the one the potential MW-sequel is based on The complete trilogy is invalidated that way. ME1to3 become a mere 'what if the Shepard that wasn't'-trilogy instead of 'this is your story' -trilogy.
A slight retcon of the outcomes not yet visible in the ending sideshows of ME3 on the other hand leaves all the choices of any Shepard intact. Depending on how well made the retcon is, even the very last one is maintained intact. This would allow the new MW game to be an actual continuation of the Shepard trilogy, instead of a game set in a similar-but-different parallel universe to the existing stories.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 21:16:49 GMT
1) Going forward in Andromeda for a period of time eventually gets us back to the Milky Way without the need to choose a canon ending. Milky Way species are already "preserved" as they were in the OT via the ones who by-passed the events at the end of ME3 by going to Andromeda. If enough time is allowed to pass before returning to the Milky Way, the status of the Reapers can also be anything... that is, there could always be a pocket of them that is not destroyed or synthesized... that survived the events at the end of ME3 unaffected by them.
2) Going forward in Andromeda is the quickest and least expensive option for producing an ME5 game since the Andromeda assets are already built on Frostbite and, almost certainly, portions of a story going forward were already drafted. This means we would not have to wait as long for a sequel game.
3) The desire to "erase" Andromeda from the series at this point just because it did not fair as well as the OT is illogical, since the major complaints about the game can ALL be rectified within a story that continues in the Andromeda Galaxy. The protag CAN be more renegade. The tone of the story CAN be dark and humorless. The animations and postures of the characters CAN be improved. There is no need to abandon the work that has already been done.
4) A direct sequel to the OT has a higher chance of being written in a way that ultimately dissatisfies fans because, over the years, they have developed some strong opinions about what they want in that sequel. A direct sequel has just as much chance of being written in the "wrong" tone or of containing individual characters the fans don't like or of "breaking with what they believe to be is establsihed lore. In short, ALL the complaints that the fans had about Andromeda can be just as easily repeated in a direct sequel to the OT. Just because it's a direct sequel to the OT doesn't guarantee it would ultimately be received any better than Andromeda was. In my opinion, because people has so many insistent ideads about what a sequel "SHOULD" contain, there is a higher chance of one dissatisfying them than if they just go forward with a completely new story... and the easiest setting to do that in, is the Andromeda Galaxy.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 6, 2019 21:23:36 GMT
The guy said the details have changed over time. What those details are is anybody's guess. It's up to Bioware to say what those details are. And the guy did say one more story. Destroy has Shepard surviving so he/she can return in ME4.
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Post by feuerrabe on Mar 6, 2019 21:48:39 GMT
Well, I would prefer another Andromeda, but in my opinion, to just pick any ending is what Bioware should have done in the first place (i.e. now that Andromeda is out, it's out and I want to see how things go on from there, but a continuation without dodging that bullet would have been preferable). Their reservations regarding imposing an ending on the players would have sounded more valid, if they had not done the exact same thing in the MMO "The Old Republic" when it comes to their single player game "Knights of the Old Republic". (Well, they did not impose on the player whether they played light side or dark side, they kinda made both contradictory paths equally valid, but a few important choices were presumed.) Many people aren't going to like it, but everyone wanted to know what comes next. Shepard's story was told, but the galaxy in a state of massive disarray. That's actually a perfect setting for a new game. The Mass Effect universe is well known and familiar, but the galaxy is at a new beginning where nothing is set in stone and the old rules don't necessarily apply anymore. Well, I suppose the green ending is a bit more problematic, unless they wanted to change the tone of Mass Effect altogether into a cyberpunk game... Spoiler for the original story of Ghost in the Shell (which is different from the recent live action film):
It would be a lot more than just Blade Runner, though. Everyone would be a merged creature, just Motoko merged with the Puppet Master. Except that Motoko and the Puppet Master merged willingly into a single one inseperable creature. The same would be imposed on every single creature in the galaxy. Which is... extreme, in my opinion. Still, if that was the way the wanted to go, go with it. whereas the blue and red ending don't necessarily make that much of a difference. In the red ending the reapers were destroyed, but a few years have passed and by now most wrecks have been gathered. In the blue ending the reapers took off and still roam the galaxy, every now and then dealing with natural catastrophes and major issues of the mass relay network, such as deflecting asteroids from inhabited planets, but they seem to remain ignorant to the politics, wars, individual lives. What the caretakers were to the Citadel, the reapers are to the entire mass relay network, and while they are not strictly hiding, you rarely get to see them.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 6, 2019 21:55:59 GMT
Any sequel to the ot will cause issues. Fan A:" My choice wasn't recognized! Screw you!" Fan B: My choice was recognized in a shitty way! Screw you!" Fan C: "why didnt you do *insert better idea than devs here* instead? Screw you! Fan D: "Just want I wanted." The last one being the minority.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 6, 2019 21:59:14 GMT
Well, I would prefer another Andromeda, but in my opinion, to just pick any ending is what Bioware should have done in the first place (i.e. now that Andromeda is out, it's out and I want to see how things go on from there, but a continuation without dodging that bullet would have been preferable). Their reservations regarding imposing an ending on the players would have sounded more valid, if they had not done the exact same thing in the MMO "The Old Republic" when it comes to their single player game "Knights of the Old Republic". (Well, they did not impose on the player whether they played light side or dark side, they kinda made both contradictory paths equally valid, but a few important choices were presumed.) Many people aren't going to like it, but everyone wanted to know what comes next. Shepard's story was told, but the galaxy in a state of massive disarray. That's actually a perfect setting for a new game. The Mass Effect universe is well known and familiar, but the galaxy is at a new beginning where nothing is set in stone and the old rules don't necessarily apply anymore. Well, I suppose the green ending is a bit more problematic, unless they wanted to change the tone of Mass Effect altogether into a cyberpunk game, whereas the blue and red ending don't necessarily make that much of a difference. Yeah Revan could have been handled better. Still I thought it was good enough considering itd be difficult to acknowledge player choice from Kotor. I guess they could have had a dialogue prompt but SWTOR is designed with new players in mind. Many I've talked to never played KOTOR.
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Post by feuerrabe on Mar 6, 2019 22:10:25 GMT
(Spoilers for Knight of the Old Republic)
Well, yeah, but the worst of it wasn't the decisions in the game itself, I could always live with a canonical path imposed on me. The worst was the pre-release flame war in the forum. If you ever referred to Revan as "she", boy would you get incite a shinestorm. People keep insisting about each and every choice and detail why their choice is the only right one. I kept quoting Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Not that it helped. Admittedly Obi-Wan did say that to sell a balant lie, doesn't mean he's wrong though.
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 6, 2019 22:27:13 GMT
(Spoilers for Knight of the Old Republic) Well, yeah, but the worst of it wasn't the decisions in the game itself, I could always live with a canonical path imposed on me. The worst was the pre-release flame war in the forum. If you ever referred to Revan as "she", boy would you get incite a shinestorm. People keep insisting about each and every choice and detail why their choice is the only right one. I kept quoting Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Not that it helped. Admittedly Obi-Wan did say that to sell a balant lie, doesn't mean he's wrong though. Glad I missed that. That had to be fun.
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Post by copper on Mar 6, 2019 22:32:57 GMT
Any sequel to the ot will cause issues. Fan A:" My choice wasn't recognized! Screw you!" Fan B: My choice was recognized in a shitty way! Screw you!" Fan C: "why didnt you do *insert better idea than devs here* instead? Screw you! Fan D: "Just want I wanted." The last one being the minority. Pretty much this. Any possible continuation in the Milky Way would induce fan rage from the majority of fans because everyone wants different things while also agreeing that Bioware is bad. Doesn't seem worth it to me.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 6, 2019 22:47:44 GMT
(Spoilers for Knight of the Old Republic) Well, yeah, but the worst of it wasn't the decisions in the game itself, I could always live with a canonical path imposed on me. The worst was the pre-release flame war in the forum. If you ever referred to Revan as "she", boy would you get incite a shinestorm. People keep insisting about each and every choice and detail why their choice is the only right one. I kept quoting Obi-Wan Kenobi: "Luke, you’re going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." Not that it helped. Admittedly Obi-Wan did say that to sell a balant lie, doesn't mean he's wrong though. It's only a blatant lie...from a certain point of view.
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 6, 2019 23:03:17 GMT
It's SO SO easy.
control = destroy + good reapers. synthesis = destroy + good reapers + green glowing effect + hypothetical perennial peace between synth and organic. Nothing more, nothing less.
So: 1) make the good reapers irrelevant 2) state that the green glowing was temporary 3) tell a story that has nothing to do with the synth-organic conflict.
Point 2) is very easy. Point 3) is easy enough. Point 1) is not so easy, but I trust that dozens of professional writers can come up with something decent.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 7, 2019 0:35:17 GMT
You do realize that the green glow wasn't the important part, right?
I'm voting "Yes" although I don't really care if the sequel is in the MW or not.
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Post by kalreegar on Mar 7, 2019 8:45:09 GMT
You do realize that the green glow wasn't the important part, right? I'm voting "Yes" although I don't really care if the sequel is in the MW or not. The only and most important part is that now organic can understand synthetics and viceversa, and this will solve the chaos problem (according to the catalyst, which is not GOD or The TRUTH). Let's say that the catalyst is correct. Synthesis doesn't mean a perfect peaceful paradise-world where every brainwashed creature lives its life with no pain, death, hate or war, but simply that the synth-organic conflict is not inevitable anymore. Conflicts and wars between synth and organics are still possible.. but not inevitable. That's it. The ending slides are pretty much the same of the other endings, with one big differece: synth and organic are shown to have a more complex and succesful kind of relationship. So: show that synth-organic relations are easier (with dialogue, npc, a romance,a couple of side quests, whatever) but focus the narrative and the plot on other thematics. Easy.Canon.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 7, 2019 12:19:26 GMT
I chose yes, but I wouldn't mind if Bioware were to make the next ME game based on my playthrough in my signature.
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Post by mydamnalterego on Mar 7, 2019 12:29:55 GMT
Dont give a damn to the collected data - canonic ending for me is RED one.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 7, 2019 18:51:26 GMT
Dont give a damn to the collected data - canonic ending for me is RED one. Well, all the polling we ever did here and on the old boards suggests that's the majority viewpoint anyway. Actually, some of the published Bio stats make it sound like low-EMS Destroy was the result for a plurality of players.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 7, 2019 18:55:18 GMT
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Post by flyingsquirrel on Mar 7, 2019 21:12:25 GMT
I think ME's most promising route, if more Andromeda stories are off the table, is to focus on the period between the First Contact War and the Shepard trilogy. Just because there weren't billion-year-old AIs trying to kill everybody during that time period doesn't mean there can't be interesting stories.
If we go back to the Milky Way after the events of the Shepard trilogy, then my preference would be to have it take place at least 20-30 years later, with few if any appearances by Shepard's crew and Shepard him/herself remaining off-screen. That might alleviate the feeling that our own personal canons are being stepped on by whatever variables Bioware chooses to factor into the setting.
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Post by natetrace on Mar 7, 2019 22:22:49 GMT
Isn't it hinted at in Andromeda that fast travel between galaxies could be possible, or a Kett has already began a trip toward the Milky Way? Also as another user above stated, making all 3 choices count in a fourth game is easy. Destroy means no Reapers. Control has a few token reapers around. Same with synthesis and our glow went away. There is no reason to pick a single option, it blows my mind when I see that proposed as an idea. We were mad at the lack of choice in 3! Now let's really make it irrelevant! Oh yes, I still think Andromeda is the best route for now.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 0:54:42 GMT
It would depend on how it was executed but I would be fine with it. Of course they would most likely go with destroy and high EMS destroy was my ending so I wouldn't be effected like others would and I wouldn't be the one who might get mad
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Post by garrusfan1 on Mar 8, 2019 0:58:48 GMT
Any sequel to the ot will cause issues. Fan A:" My choice wasn't recognized! Screw you!" Fan B: My choice was recognized in a shitty way! Screw you!" Fan C: "why didnt you do *insert better idea than devs here* instead? Screw you! Fan D: "Just want I wanted." The last one being the minority. Pretty much this. Any possible continuation in the Milky Way would induce fan rage from the majority of fans because everyone wants different things while also agreeing that Bioware is bad. Doesn't seem worth it to me. This is true but a develeloper makes games to sell and how many people would complain about their ending not being used but still buy it. In the end I have never seen a game not get a ton of complaints. Well the witcher 3 didn't get much but I am sure people still nit picked
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 8, 2019 2:26:46 GMT
I picked option three but it's only partially accurate. I don't want any ending that doesn't lead to 100% dead Reapers. The rest of the details are largely irrelevant: state of the geth, quarians, EDI, krogan and rachni. I don't even care if the Catalyst happened so long as it's never again mentioned. Okay, maybe it can be used as an example of why AI is bad. Now, I'd love for Shep and all of my squadmates and allies to survive, but it's not a requirement. New threats might mean new heroes to take them on. In fact, in light of there being new threats it would be best to put Shepard and the Cult of Shepard to rest. Those are the big guns and they're not concerned with putting the galaxy back together. Meanwhile, there are other dangers out there (like the Leviathan) and a new team has to deal with them.
EDIT: I guess, based on the question in your post, it would be fine. We'd get Destroy. The rest of the details don't matter to me.
EDIT 2: Based on what people said about MEA, I do concur. I love to at least see it wrapped up. HOWEVER, if it's impossible to make an MEA2, they could still wrap things up with a large DLC. Then ME5 can be back to the MW.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 8, 2019 7:24:54 GMT
If we go back to the Milky Way after the events of the Shepard trilogy, then my preference would be to have it take place at least 20-30 years later, with few if any appearances by Shepard's crew and Shepard him/herself remaining off-screen. That might alleviate the feeling that our own personal canons are being stepped on by whatever variables Bioware chooses to factor into the setting. I was thinking something similar along these lines as well. Create an aftermath story that shows Shep and his crew rebuilding after the Reaper onslaught.....create something creative that shows somehow the energies released affected Shep's aging process (slowing it down tremendously) as a way for him to possibly take on the perceived threat in Andromeda....somebody either on this forum or on the old forum suggested something that some probably won't like, but i was interested in the concept. It may very well be true that the energies released couldn't possibly destroy all of the Reapers. And who knows how far their reach actually is in terms of their cycle experiments?.....we still don't know true Origin of Meridian? What if it was revealed that the Remnant Builders was of a Rogue Reaper that performed an experiment outside of it's 50,000 year cycle purge? It re purposed the some of the DNA purged from Milky Way to create the Angarians/Kett?...and possibly other alien races we've yet to see in Andromeda? Maybe have a tribe of Angarians on the far ends of the galaxy worshiping an ancient relic they perceive to be a god, but when it is revealed to Shep and crew....possibly Ryder if you want to include them, the shadowy mammoth creature is revealed to be a Reaper, but this Reaper is creating life instead of purging it and wants it's creations to worship it...or maybe the writers could come up with something more compelling and interesting, but i wouldn't mind the big reveal being some advanced Reaper.... I'm really not sure of having both Ryder and Shep there tho...i just wasn't a fan of Ryder like that and i'm thinking Shep would probably make alot of folks happy (myself) but at the same time Ryder needs to come up on his own and quite honestly if the 2nd game can be a bit darker/serious with some improved and tightened writing and narratives, i think Ryder as a character would work...keep Ryder in charge and maybe Shep and crew as support and for having first hand knowledge of the Reaper threat.... ^^^The reference made to Remnant builders are stated here....oh and flying squirrel?...i know my similar thoughts end at your 20-30 years later...everything else i listed probably sounds like a disaster to you and everybody else.....lol .... .....
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Post by griffith82 on Mar 13, 2019 3:25:27 GMT
I think ME's most promising route, if more Andromeda stories are off the table, is to focus on the period between the First Contact War and the Shepard trilogy. Just because there weren't billion-year-old AIs trying to kill everybody during that time period doesn't mean there can't be interesting stories. If we go back to the Milky Way after the events of the Shepard trilogy, then my preference would be to have it take place at least 20-30 years later, with few if any appearances by Shepard's crew and Shepard him/herself remaining off-screen. That might alleviate the feeling that our own personal canons are being stepped on by whatever variables Bioware chooses to factor into the setting. I dont see how Andromeda is off the table?
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