Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
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Post by Cyberstrike on Apr 7, 2019 16:12:27 GMT
The way powers worked in ME3. It was smooth and when you pulled up the "power wheel" you could use you squads power. Also the gun play in andromeda was horrible in my opinion. What I mean is it took forever to kill even weak enemies. It wasn't that it was hard but it was tedious since even a head shot with a powerful sniper rifle wouldn't kill anyone but the weakest foe. ME3 felt alot more "realistic" for lack of a better word and fluid. This is one of my biggest complaints about MEA. Also I miss how the power wheel would pause the game and that helped encourage you to use your squads powers.
Another thing is classes. I missed it. It felt more comfortable since if you were an infiltrator for example you would map out your powers and get comfortable with it. In MEA you had to change it up and I just couldn't get really comfortable with the controls. Plus it helped with the RPG story element in my opinion. So please bioware bring back classes and the ME3 style combat.
What do you think
NO! NO! HELL FUCKING NO!
I LOVED ME:A gameplay and combat system it was easily light-years better than any of MET gameplay/combat systems. It was fluid and more importantly FUN which was something I never had with the combat in the MET series.
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Post by opuspace on Apr 7, 2019 20:01:54 GMT
Honestly, I'd rather they stuck with the Andromeda style of combat and add more abilities and slots. Getting to pick specific styles and experiment with unorthodox designs is what has me coming back when the RPG aspects fail in variety of outcomes and potential personalities.
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Post by 10k on Apr 7, 2019 23:17:26 GMT
Really? I've found plenty of ME:A builds to be viable, in different ways. Sure you can argue many builds to be "viable" it just have to kill stuff lol. But there was essentially no balance for OP builds and no use for squadmates. You could not make an OP build in the OT because there was some things Shepard couldn't do. Have a biotic shep most likely you took tech teammates with you on missions, and vice versa. There are no checks and balances in MEA, just pick the best powers and be unstoppable. There was little to no difficulty when you stumbled onto the best builds. Here's the build I found and used for my MEA playthrough. So far the best build, it breaks the game on insanity lol.
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Apr 8, 2019 4:00:01 GMT
I found switching to a different fav group in battle annoying and didn't like losing access to my first 3 abilities to use the other 3. I stopped using the system half way through the game, cause it just wasn't fun, after that i just stuck with one profile and ability set.
That's not a classless problem though - its an annoying system of switching which of the abilities i know that i can use problem.
I'd just like to be able to access all, or atleast more of, the abilities my character has learned. Whether that's giving me a longer ability bar or bringing up a menu of unmapped abilities by clicking a button so i can select from them. The profiles/fav sets are just an annoying and unnecessary middle step.
Other things i'd like regardless of whether it's classes or classless in the next game are Pausing and Squadmate control.
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tatann
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Post by tatann on Apr 8, 2019 7:46:39 GMT
The way powers worked in ME3. It was smooth and when you pulled up the "power wheel" you could use you squads power. Also the gun play in andromeda was horrible in my opinion. What I mean is it took forever to kill even weak enemies. It wasn't that it was hard but it was tedious since even a head shot with a powerful sniper rifle wouldn't kill anyone but the weakest foe. ME3 felt alot more "realistic" for lack of a better word and fluid. This is one of my biggest complaints about MEA. Also I miss how the power wheel would pause the game and that helped encourage you to use your squads powers.
Another thing is classes. I missed it. It felt more comfortable since if you were an infiltrator for example you would map out your powers and get comfortable with it. In MEA you had to change it up and I just couldn't get really comfortable with the controls. Plus it helped with the RPG story element in my opinion. So please bioware bring back classes and the ME3 style combat.
What do you think
NO! NO! HELL FUCKING NO!
I LOVED ME:A gameplay and combat system it was easily light-years better than any of MET gameplay/combat systems. It was fluid and more importantly FUN which was something I never had with the combat in the MET series.
Ground movement is more fluid, but jetpack and dodge were abrupt I prefer a roll or sidestep to the brutal dodge that would break the character spin/neck And the jetpack is very poor, if you've played a game like Firefall, this is how a fluid jetpack gameplay should be implemented, not the binary implementation from MEA (I'm on the ground, now I'm stationary in the air, now I'm a few meters away in the air... and I'm back on the ground) And finally the limitation to 3 abilities (thank you gamepads...) wasn't well received, I prefer the original system (luckily on PC you can mod MEA to get a system close to the OT)
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 8, 2019 11:43:38 GMT
Combat sys was good in MEA. Gunplay rather sucked in general and enemies could be terrible bullet sponge. Esp shielded. Actually I mostly enjoyed Biotic Vanguard with shotte and fist of the Matriarch. Engineer made good impression too. But pure gunplay wasnt fun for me. Way too spongy. The favourite system had its flaws but allowed to spec for different situations. Shotte vanguard sucked balls vs architects. Overall I found it a fresh take on classes and variable gameplay. Worst thing was the guns tho. It was a fricken race vs enemy scaling. Hated it.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Apr 8, 2019 15:17:22 GMT
Andromeda was a mistake, so yes.
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Post by 10k on Apr 8, 2019 16:11:27 GMT
NO! NO! HELL FUCKING NO!
I LOVED ME:A gameplay and combat system it was easily light-years better than any of MET gameplay/combat systems. It was fluid and more importantly FUN which was something I never had with the combat in the MET series.
Ground movement is more fluid, but jetpack and dodge were abrupt I prefer a roll or sidestep to the brutal dodge that would break the character spin/neck And the jetpack is very poor, if you've played a game like Firefall, this is how a fluid jetpack gameplay should be implemented, not the binary implementation from MEA (I'm on the ground, now I'm stationary in the air, now I'm a few meters away in the air... and I'm back on the ground) And finally the limitation to 3 abilities (thank you gamepads...) wasn't well received, I prefer the original system (luckily on PC you can mod MEA to get a system close to the OT) I agree with everything you've said, but why is it that people blame the controller or consoles for devs implementing these restrictive systems. Especially when most people who have played the OT on consoles preferred the power wheel? Not only that, but there are other games that do well implementing power use for gamepads and don't use restrictive mechanics that BW does; Witcher 3 with its own power wheel and Dark souls being able to use 8 items with a controller. This is not the controller fault, this is BW fault period. I just think it's a dumb argument to blame these mechanics on controllers, when there has already been mechanics developed in games that let a controller user use more than 3 powers.
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Apr 8, 2019 16:18:55 GMT
Ground movement is more fluid, but jetpack and dodge were abrupt I prefer a roll or sidestep to the brutal dodge that would break the character spin/neck And the jetpack is very poor, if you've played a game like Firefall, this is how a fluid jetpack gameplay should be implemented, not the binary implementation from MEA (I'm on the ground, now I'm stationary in the air, now I'm a few meters away in the air... and I'm back on the ground) And finally the limitation to 3 abilities (thank you gamepads...) wasn't well received, I prefer the original system (luckily on PC you can mod MEA to get a system close to the OT) I agree with everything you've said, but why is it that people blame the controller or consoles for devs implementing these restrictive systems. Especially when most people who have played the OT on consoles preferred the power wheel? Not only that, but there are other games that do well implementing power use for gamepads and don't use restrictive mechanics that BW does; Witcher 3 with its own power wheel and Dark souls being able to use 8 items with a controller. This is not the controller fault, this is BW fault period. I just think it's a dumb argument to blame these mechanics on controllers, when there has already been mechanics developed in games that let a controller user use more than 3 powers. BRING BACK THE POWER WHEEL!
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Post by themikefest on Apr 8, 2019 16:38:58 GMT
Yep. Something I've posted a few times in the past. Bring back the power wheel.
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The Joe-Man
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Post by The Joe-Man on Apr 8, 2019 17:42:28 GMT
Everything about the gunplay in Andromeda was inferior to ME3. They all felt like peashooters, and not just because the enemies were bullet sponges. They reduced the amount of muzzle flash, muzzle rise and haptic feedback. The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats.
The balance between guns was also horrible thanks in large part to their decision to change the weight system. Giving power cooldown bonuses for carrying lighter, weaker weapons was a beautiful balancing design. Removing it meant they had balance pistol DPS with longguns. Which is beyond stupid.
I don't mind that they got rid of the power wheel but they should have made it MUCH easier to switch between profiles. And having the new profile throw all your powers on cooldown completely disincentivised using the mechanic at all.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
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Post by Iakus on Apr 8, 2019 18:20:30 GMT
And having the new profile throw all your powers on cooldown completely disincentivised using the mechanic at all. QFT
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Post by tatann on Apr 8, 2019 18:59:33 GMT
Ground movement is more fluid, but jetpack and dodge were abrupt I prefer a roll or sidestep to the brutal dodge that would break the character spin/neck And the jetpack is very poor, if you've played a game like Firefall, this is how a fluid jetpack gameplay should be implemented, not the binary implementation from MEA (I'm on the ground, now I'm stationary in the air, now I'm a few meters away in the air... and I'm back on the ground) And finally the limitation to 3 abilities (thank you gamepads...) wasn't well received, I prefer the original system (luckily on PC you can mod MEA to get a system close to the OT) I agree with everything you've said, but why is it that people blame the controller or consoles for devs implementing these restrictive systems. Especially when most people who have played the OT on consoles preferred the power wheel? Not only that, but there are other games that do well implementing power use for gamepads and don't use restrictive mechanics that BW does; Witcher 3 with its own power wheel and Dark souls being able to use 8 items with a controller. This is not the controller fault, this is BW fault period. I just think it's a dumb argument to blame these mechanics on controllers, when there has already been mechanics developed in games that let a controller user use more than 3 powers. Well, maybe other studios and old Bioware managed to put more than 3 powers with a controller, but new Bioware didn't. Remember they removed the tactical pause, without it you can't use a power wheel. Same reason ME3MP had 3 powers (no pause in multi)
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,879 Likes: 49,335
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Post by Iakus on Apr 8, 2019 19:08:27 GMT
I agree with everything you've said, but why is it that people blame the controller or consoles for devs implementing these restrictive systems. Especially when most people who have played the OT on consoles preferred the power wheel? Not only that, but there are other games that do well implementing power use for gamepads and don't use restrictive mechanics that BW does; Witcher 3 with its own power wheel and Dark souls being able to use 8 items with a controller. This is not the controller fault, this is BW fault period. I just think it's a dumb argument to blame these mechanics on controllers, when there has already been mechanics developed in games that let a controller user use more than 3 powers. Well, maybe other studios and old Bioware managed to put more than 3 powers with a controller, but new Bioware didn't. Remember they removed the tactical pause, without it you can't use a power wheel. Same reason ME3MP had 3 powers (no pause in multi) SP should have tactical pause then.
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Post by tatann on Apr 8, 2019 20:25:31 GMT
Well, maybe other studios and old Bioware managed to put more than 3 powers with a controller, but new Bioware didn't. Remember they removed the tactical pause, without it you can't use a power wheel. Same reason ME3MP had 3 powers (no pause in multi) SP should have tactical pause then. That's exactly my point, they removed it in SP to make the game more "action-y", but since on console, without a power wheel, you can't have more than 3 powers (well you could by using more combinations with a trigger for example, but they didn't), we also got stuck with 3 powers on PC (well until the modders came)
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2019 21:08:34 GMT
Combat sys was good in MEA. Gunplay rather sucked in general and enemies could be terrible bullet sponge. Esp shielded. Actually I mostly enjoyed Biotic Vanguard with shotte and fist of the Matriarch. Engineer made good impression too. But pure gunplay wasnt fun for me. Way too spongy. The favourite system had its flaws but allowed to spec for different situations. Shotte vanguard sucked balls vs architects. Overall I found it a fresh take on classes and variable gameplay. Worst thing was the guns tho. It was a fricken race vs enemy scaling. Hated it. That was one of the things that annoyed me so much. And I did like andromeda but not as much as the original trilogy but ME2 and ME3 prior to the starkid are my favorite games ever so it's not an insult to andromeda. That said I hated how the enemies were bullet sponges. In ME2 you had that on insanity but it was insanity so I understood. I really didn't like the gun play in MEA. And again I am not one of the people who says andromeda sucks it was horrible etc etc. I was looking forward to the dlc and was dissapointed when they said they weren't gonna make it.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2019 21:09:48 GMT
SP should have tactical pause then. That's exactly my point, they removed it in SP to make the game more "action-y", but since on console, without a power wheel, you can't have more than 3 powers (well you could by using more combinations with a trigger for example, but they didn't), we also got stuck with 3 powers on PC (well until the modders came) That was something I really missed.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2019 21:12:10 GMT
Everything about the gunplay in Andromeda was inferior to ME3. They all felt like peashooters, and not just because the enemies were bullet sponges. They reduced the amount of muzzle flash, muzzle rise and haptic feedback. The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats. The balance between guns was also horrible thanks in large part to their decision to change the weight system. Giving power cooldown bonuses for carrying lighter, weaker weapons was a beautiful balancing design. Removing it meant they had balance pistol DPS with longguns. Which is beyond stupid. I don't mind that they got rid of the power wheel but they should have made it MUCH easier to switch between profiles. And having the new profile throw all your powers on cooldown completely disincentivised using the mechanic at all. Yeah remember using the M99 saber in ME3? Ahh the sound that beast made when it fired. I think they got too ambitious with the profile system
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 8, 2019 23:56:37 GMT
Everything about the gunplay in Andromeda was inferior to ME3. They all felt like peashooters, and not just because the enemies were bullet sponges. They reduced the amount of muzzle flash, muzzle rise and haptic feedback. The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats. The balance between guns was also horrible thanks in large part to their decision to change the weight system. Giving power cooldown bonuses for carrying lighter, weaker weapons was a beautiful balancing design. Removing it meant they had balance pistol DPS with longguns. Which is beyond stupid. I don't mind that they got rid of the power wheel but they should have made it MUCH easier to switch between profiles. And having the new profile throw all your powers on cooldown completely disincentivised using the mechanic at all. Feedback of ME3 weapons was superior. Movement was meatier, too. Krogan were kinda lightweight in MEA.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 2:50:54 GMT
The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats. What's wrong with stats controlling combat effectiveness in an RPG? Console, right? On PC you just push a key to switch. How do you guys do it? Having the other profiles' abilities not be on cooldown would have incentivised switching. Is that what you wanted?
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 9, 2019 7:58:31 GMT
The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats. What's wrong with stats controlling combat effectiveness in an RPG? Console, right? On PC you just push a key to switch. How do you guys do it? Having the other profiles' abilities not be on cooldown would have incentivised switching. Is that what you wanted? It's "action" rpg. You have more agency. When you aim for the head and score headshot that has nothing to do with stats much. Introduce too much RNG on that agency and it becomes pointless.
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The Joe-Man
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by The Joe-Man on Apr 9, 2019 19:46:34 GMT
The audio wasn't as punchy, and they replaced recoil, which could be mitigated with skill, with reticle bloom that was completely dependent on stats. What's wrong with stats controlling combat effectiveness in an RPG? Console, right? On PC you just push a key to switch. How do you guys do it? Having the other profiles' abilities not be on cooldown would have incentivised switching. Is that what you wanted? To your first question: The key word is replaced. There has to be a balance. Otherwise it doesn't feel like you're shooting a gun and controlling the outcome. It removes player agency and makes skill less relevant. All bad stats should be able to be compensated for with skill. Immersion in an action RPG is important. In real life when a rifle is shot on full auto it will lose accuracy over time but the most important issue to deal with is the recoil. This should be reflected in-game.
To your second question: Yeah, console. In order to switch profiles you had to pull up the weapon wheel then go through two levels of menus. Very clunky.
To your third question: Yes. Why give the players access to so many powers if they aren't meant to use them? The system they went with slowed the player down unnecessarily. If a situation came up where you would benefit from a different power set, by the time your powers came off cooldown the situation had changed. You could mitigate the problem with certain mods but that's a dumb work around to an unnecessary problem. They could have had the cooldowns from your previous profile carry over to your new profile. That would have been the easiest solution.
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 21:18:47 GMT
What's wrong with stats controlling combat effectiveness in an RPG? Console, right? On PC you just push a key to switch. How do you guys do it? Having the other profiles' abilities not be on cooldown would have incentivised switching. Is that what you wanted? It's "action" rpg. You have more agency. When you aim for the head and score headshot that has nothing to do with stats much. Introduce too much RNG on that agency and it becomes pointless. Let's not equate stats and RNG. Stats are the opposite of random. I thought it was a problem that all of my ME2-3 characters were equally good shots. (Maybe this means that I don't like action-RPGs? I can live with that.)
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 9, 2019 21:23:46 GMT
To your third question: Yes. Why give the players access to so many powers if they aren't meant to use them? The system they went with slowed the player down unnecessarily. If a situation came up where you would benefit from a different power set, by the time your powers came off cooldown the situation had changed. You could mitigate the problem with certain mods but that's a dumb work around to an unnecessary problem. They could have had the cooldowns from your previous profile carry over to your new profile. That would have been the easiest solution.
I wouldn't have had a problem with letting the existing cooldowns carry over, although I suppose it would have opened up opportunities to game the system because of variable cooldown lengths. How important is this, really? You don't lose more than two or three ticks if you switch when everything's on cooldown because you've fired them already.
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Post by Pounce de León on Apr 10, 2019 7:26:42 GMT
It's "action" rpg. You have more agency. When you aim for the head and score headshot that has nothing to do with stats much. Introduce too much RNG on that agency and it becomes pointless. Let's not equate stats and RNG. Stats are the opposite of random. I thought it was a problem that all of my ME2-3 characters were equally good shots. (Maybe this means that I don't like action-RPGs? I can live with that.) I'm talking about guns with overly random bloom patterns. Those that dont shoot where you aim.
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