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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 24, 2019 1:30:15 GMT
Qui-Gon GlenN7 Shouldn't there be a poll option like 'Last one out turn off the lights.' Uff... I don't want to delete the poll again to add new options If I can edit the options on PC I will add such a thing. It does seem apropo.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 24, 2019 1:48:05 GMT
Qui-Gon GlenN7 Shouldn't there be a poll option like 'Last one out turn off the lights.' Uff... I don't want to delete the poll again to add new options If I can edit the options on PC I will add such a thing. It does seem apropo. I wouldn't worry too much. Just a silly thing that crossed my mind.
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Post by force58 on Mar 26, 2019 14:13:37 GMT
Anthem has been received really poorly - like way worse than I ever imagined to the point I am slightly stunned tbh. I think they're done, just don't know it yet. I'm sure your opinion differs, so do tell! As I stated in another post, Anthem got off to a rocky start in my house. I couldn't get the game to load and when it did it would kick me out every 2-3 minutes. I found out with the help of EA Help and my ISP that I was missing a ranged port route and once it was added to my router, the game has launched and played error free since then. Yes, Anthem has been received poorly, I get that. Most of the people that have said that have rushed to the end, through the GM levels, and are not wanting for additional content. I'd venture a guess the majority of the player base has not completed the story line yet. Other games have come out and most were waiting for the games issues to be addressed. Right now Anthem is one of 4 games in a rotation for me and I like it that way. I don't think BioWare or Anthem "are in trouble". They've been more than forthcoming with addressing what the issues are and have responded in kind with updates. I'm not in a position to comment on drop rates for high end gear yet as I'm only level 19. That seems to be what a lot of people are complaining about. Those few days when loot dropped in high quantities and at high levels only to be squashed as an error by BioWare was addressed quickly, not to the liking of the player base. I understand BioWare's response on the topic and how if they had left the drop rate as it was it would have negatively affected end game activity. There would have been an equal amount of people screaming about how easy the end game was. Either way BioWare cant' win. I hope they pull through this for the sake of the company and the Anthem franchise.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Mar 26, 2019 14:49:59 GMT
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Apr 3, 2019 0:25:07 GMT
No. If anything we might see reform.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2019 0:42:10 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing.
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Post by 10k on Apr 3, 2019 0:46:53 GMT
After today, yes. I think we will see the same thing go down with DA4. Frostbite will no doubt be the death of them. When you as a developer hope for your own game to fail, there is a problem. BW employees are tired of the same BS developing loop, that will continue with DA4. They don't have the tools they need to succeed, and the higher-ups will continue to ignore the issues because of "artistic integrity" oh wait...I mean "Bioware magic."
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 3, 2019 1:02:07 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing.
True.
But remember that, Jason's article points to the reasons why Anthem is what it is. The fact that its culture is the same as other studios is irrelevant.
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Post by Superhik on Apr 3, 2019 1:21:15 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing. Other studios also have their share of problems ( with CDPR, it's more a case of being overambitious, for a relatively young studio), but nowhere near to this extent. 5 years of preproduction, with games drastically changing design direction. Being forced to make games on engine completely unsuited for it. Huge fraction between different studios, etc, etc. Both Bioware's leads and EA are equally to blame for this (situation they're in).
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 3, 2019 1:34:03 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing. Bioware is being accused of many things, but primarily at releasing a very shallow and poorly designed game which is also significantly different from what was advertised. Questionable working conditions, tight schedules and bad corporate culture are tied to the problem, but they are not the problem per se.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 3, 2019 1:45:37 GMT
After today, yes. I think we will see the same thing go down with DA4. Frostbite will no doubt be the death of them. When you as a developer hope for your own game to fail, there is a problem. BW employees are tired of the same BS developing loop, that will continue with DA4. They don't have the tools they need to succeed, and the higher-ups will continue to ignore the issues because of "artistic integrity" oh wait...I mean "Bioware magic." Perhaps, just perhaps, this article will get big enough and things can change within Bioware and EA. But not considering the article and what we know from it, I don't think DA4 would have a cycle any different from Andromeda and Anthem. It could even turn out to be a decent game (which I am skeptical after Mike Laidlaw's departure), but it would inevitably go through the same development cycle.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2019 3:00:51 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing.
True.
But remember that, Jason's article points to the reasons why Anthem is what it is. The fact that its culture is the same as other studios is irrelevant.
The thing is Anthem is like any other looter shooter game on the market, so if their conditions are the same as any other studio wouldn't the final product then be the same as any other studio? Destiny 1, Destiny 2, or The Divison 1 all were plagued with problems at launch too and it took months if not years to course correct the game. Diablo 3 even had many of the same problems and it took three years and a paid expansion to fix that game. My comment wasn't at Jason's article either it was about how those other studios survive with those problems so I doubt we are seeing the death throes.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 3, 2019 3:02:53 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing.
True.
But remember that, Jason's article points to the reasons why Anthem is what it is. The fact that its culture is the same as other studios is irrelevant.
Eh....it's only irrelevent because people care about this one due to the game scoring poorly. Rule of thumb is simple: If the culture at large allows it, it can occur. Sort of a standard for any large group that claims cultural identity. Folks call it "enabling" to put it another way. Want real change? Influence the culture.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2019 3:02:54 GMT
All of these negative articles about BioWare to me are proving they are no different then any other studio. I don't see that CDPR is on their last legs with how they treat their employees with years of crunch or completely scrapping a game engine to make another. When called out publicly by former employees or people that claim they are former employees their response is "the way we makes games is not for everyone". Look at the articles about the conditions of games over the recent years and they all have the same trends as what BioWare is being accused of, just for some reason people want to ignore what they other places are doing. Other studios also have their share of problems ( with CDPR, it's more a case of being overambitious, for a relatively young studio), but nowhere near to this extent. 5 years of preproduction, with games drastically changing design direction. Being forced to make games on engine completely unsuited for it. Huge fraction between different studios, etc, etc. Both Bioware's leads and EA are equally to blame for this (situation they're in).
If you are giving CDPR that level of benefit of the doubt and not BioWare that is a problem for me because of the comments that came from former employees including completely scrapping the engine people that have their entire work thrown into the recycling bin because it wasn't liked all sound similar to the complaints leveled here. Its also not about the situation as I have mentioned it that BioWare probably isn't doomed because these things are happening because other studios have survived years of non-stop crunch or massive restarts to their products.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2019 3:21:07 GMT
True.
But remember that, Jason's article points to the reasons why Anthem is what it is. The fact that its culture is the same as other studios is irrelevant.
Eh....it's only irrelevent because people care about this one due to the game scoring poorly. Rule of thumb is simple: If the culture at large allows it, it can occur. Sort of a standard for any large group that claims cultural identity. Folks call it "enabling" to put it another way. Want real change? Influence the culture. That has been my problem with the reports on this issue. Its not that its happening at BioWare, but people will make excuses for other studios that have the same practices. If you allow one place to have those conditions its going to signal that its okay unless its BioWare doing it. Just because people like The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't mean those practices that hurt employees should be ignored and that is what I feel I have been witnessing today. Only because the comments I have seen when those studios were being criticized were coming to the defense of those studios or the people that agreed it was bad were being attacked by the community, but with these comments about BioWare and Anthem generally took a negative tone from the majority of people. Which is also why I don't think BioWare is in any trouble, for other studios as long as they are profitable are fine and since online comments are not consistent it won't matter.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 3, 2019 3:23:40 GMT
Eh....it's only irrelevent because people care about this one due to the game scoring poorly. Rule of thumb is simple: If the culture at large allows it, it can occur. Sort of a standard for any large group that claims cultural identity. Folks call it "enabling" to put it another way. Want real change? Influence the culture. That has been my problem with the reports on this issue. Its not that its happening at BioWare, but people will make excuses for other studios that have the same practices. If you allow one place to have those conditions its going to signal that its okay unless its BioWare doing it. Just because people like The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't mean those practices that hurt employees should be ignored and that is what I feel I have been witnessing today. Only because the comments I have seen when those studios were being criticized were coming to the defense of those studios or the people that agreed it was bad were being attacked by the community, but with these comments about BioWare and Anthem generally took a negative tone from the majority of people. Which is also why I don't think BioWare is in any trouble, for other studios as long as they are profitable are fine and since online comments are not consistent it won't matter. I agree on all of that. But I suspect the studio is suffering heavily from morale and its up to the senior team to regain that trust now for the future. The question we should all be asking is can Hudson, Darrah and company do that? Their statement today, despite the massive tone-deafness of it, more or less hinted at that fact being part of their own humbling. It just needs a bit of a push, which I hope the expose can provide at this point. If not...the failure is on the studio heads for failing to learn.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 3, 2019 3:43:27 GMT
That has been my problem with the reports on this issue. Its not that its happening at BioWare, but people will make excuses for other studios that have the same practices. If you allow one place to have those conditions its going to signal that its okay unless its BioWare doing it. Just because people like The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't mean those practices that hurt employees should be ignored and that is what I feel I have been witnessing today. Only because the comments I have seen when those studios were being criticized were coming to the defense of those studios or the people that agreed it was bad were being attacked by the community, but with these comments about BioWare and Anthem generally took a negative tone from the majority of people. Which is also why I don't think BioWare is in any trouble, for other studios as long as they are profitable are fine and since online comments are not consistent it won't matter. I agree on all of that. But I suspect the studio is suffering heavily from morale and its up to the senior team to regain that trust now for the future. The question we should all be asking is can Hudson, Darrah and company do that? Their statement today, despite the massive tone-deafness of it, more or less hinted at that fact being part of their own humbling. It just needs a bit of a push, which I hope the expose can provide at this point. If not...the failure is on the studio heads for failing to learn. It's also why I fear that people will just attack Bioware and EA and leave it at that while ignoring or underreporting the questionable things that other game companies do. I'm hoping this article could spark a discussion about the industry at large but sadly it's just going to be aimed at Bioware for now.
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Post by Steelcan on Apr 3, 2019 3:54:30 GMT
I agree on all of that. But I suspect the studio is suffering heavily from morale and its up to the senior team to regain that trust now for the future. The question we should all be asking is can Hudson, Darrah and company do that? Their statement today, despite the massive tone-deafness of it, more or less hinted at that fact being part of their own humbling. It just needs a bit of a push, which I hope the expose can provide at this point. If not...the failure is on the studio heads for failing to learn. It's also why I fear that people will just attack Bioware and EA and leave it at that while ignoring or underreporting the questionable things that other game companies do. I'm hoping this article could spark a discussion about the industry at large but sadly it's just going to be aimed at Bioware for now. I think that's partly because right now the reaction is to the stress and fatigue and terrible morale as a symptom of terrible management. There will always be some level of stress and crunch in any complicated field with deadlines, that isn't unique to BioWare, but BioWare's issues with management seem to be continuing for release after release and that does set them apart.
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Sanunes
N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Prime Posts: 4392
Prime Likes: 882
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Post by Sanunes on Apr 3, 2019 3:58:09 GMT
That has been my problem with the reports on this issue. Its not that its happening at BioWare, but people will make excuses for other studios that have the same practices. If you allow one place to have those conditions its going to signal that its okay unless its BioWare doing it. Just because people like The Witcher 3 or Red Dead Redemption 2 doesn't mean those practices that hurt employees should be ignored and that is what I feel I have been witnessing today. Only because the comments I have seen when those studios were being criticized were coming to the defense of those studios or the people that agreed it was bad were being attacked by the community, but with these comments about BioWare and Anthem generally took a negative tone from the majority of people. Which is also why I don't think BioWare is in any trouble, for other studios as long as they are profitable are fine and since online comments are not consistent it won't matter. I agree on all of that. But I suspect the studio is suffering heavily from morale and its up to the senior team to regain that trust now for the future. The question we should all be asking is can Hudson, Darrah and company do that? Their statement today, despite the massive tone-deafness of it, more or less hinted at that fact being part of their own humbling. It just needs a bit of a push, which I hope the expose can provide at this point. If not...the failure is on the studio heads for failing to learn. I think morale has been a problem for awhile, probably starting back with Mass Effect 3 and how the community reacted to the game. The thing about the response and how tone deaf it is, its probably to make sure no fault is admitted publicly. I have seen that with much smaller companies to make sure they are covered to prevent someone from claiming their response is an admission of guilt without any further investigation. At least this time BioWare made a public comment instead of so often just ignoring the problems. I do hope BioWare does look internally and see if these problems exist and fix them if they are as severe as reported. I am just not sure if the problem is company wide or in a certain area for with the anonymity that is in the article makes it impossible to know that and looking back at what happened with Rockstar they had many people saying after given the okay that they never experienced what was going on, but the reports then were it was then mostly a QA issue with the crunch.
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Post by majesticjazz on Apr 3, 2019 5:17:12 GMT
I agree on all of that. But I suspect the studio is suffering heavily from morale and its up to the senior team to regain that trust now for the future. The question we should all be asking is can Hudson, Darrah and company do that? Their statement today, despite the massive tone-deafness of it, more or less hinted at that fact being part of their own humbling. It just needs a bit of a push, which I hope the expose can provide at this point. If not...the failure is on the studio heads for failing to learn. It's also why I fear that people will just attack Bioware and EA and leave it at that while ignoring or underreporting the questionable things that other game companies do. I'm hoping this article could spark a discussion about the industry at large but sadly it's just going to be aimed at Bioware for now. So its okay to focus on the article as it relates to crunch time and long hours but yet ignore the focus on the article about the poor decisions Bioware made during development? It is this same type of deflection/ignoring that caused Anthem to be what it is. Maybe if Edmonton would have put away their hubris amd listened to Austin. This wasn't an article about the poor treatment of employees. This was an article about the decisions (or lack thereof) that led Anthem to be what it was today. 6 years of development....
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 3, 2019 11:32:24 GMT
When I read the article, I thought maybe they might have realized the issues and will work to correct them for the next release. Then I read the blog post response and loled at myself for ever thinking that. They're toast.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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August 2016
linksocarina
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 3, 2019 11:46:19 GMT
It's also why I fear that people will just attack Bioware and EA and leave it at that while ignoring or underreporting the questionable things that other game companies do. I'm hoping this article could spark a discussion about the industry at large but sadly it's just going to be aimed at Bioware for now. So its okay to focus on the article as it relates to crunch time and long hours but yet ignore the focus on the article about the poor decisions Bioware made during development? It is this same type of deflection/ignoring that caused Anthem to be what it is. Maybe if Edmonton would have put away their hubris amd listened to Austin. This wasn't an article about the poor treatment of employees. This was an article about the decisions (or lack thereof) that led Anthem to be what it was today. 6 years of development.... It's an article about both. Slectively choosing to ephasize one topic as being more important than another is self motivating.
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1,958
majesticjazz
2,015
January 2017
majesticjazz
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Jade Empire
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Post by majesticjazz on Apr 3, 2019 12:56:20 GMT
So its okay to focus on the article as it relates to crunch time and long hours but yet ignore the focus on the article about the poor decisions Bioware made during development? It is this same type of deflection/ignoring that caused Anthem to be what it is. Maybe if Edmonton would have put away their hubris amd listened to Austin. This wasn't an article about the poor treatment of employees. This was an article about the decisions (or lack thereof) that led Anthem to be what it was today. 6 years of development.... It's an article about both. Slectively choosing to ephasize one topic as being more important than another is self motivating. The article's title is "How Bioware's Anthem Went Wrong" Yes, long work hours and "crunch" time isnt unique to Bioware. CDPR did it with Witcher 3 and is probably doing it now with Cyberpunk 2077. Rockstar has probably done it since GTA4 and probably even earlier. Difference is....the games they produce wasnt released with a 55 average review scores. Their games become GOTY winners. Why is that? Because of leadership and direction. After MEA the argument here was that it was made by the B team and they only had 18 months of development. Well we now know Anthem was made by the A team and also had like 18 months of development. Why is that? Why and how did Bioware do this 2 times in a row? Whats up with this "Bioware magic"? Why didnt Edmonton take suggestions and feedback from Austin? Is Frostbite the true problem? I understand by solely focusing on employees, people like you get to lump in CDPR and Rockstar because it takes a lot of blame away from Bioware in a "See! Other people do itnto and yet they dont blame them!" Its the classic "I know you are but what am I" argument that brings others into the loop. But at the end of the day, why does Bioware fail while the others that are pointed out make GOTY titles that all gamers love?
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spacev3gan
1,059
Aug 28, 2016 22:05:52 GMT
August 2016
spacev3gan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
SpaceV3gan
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 3, 2019 13:09:28 GMT
It's also why I fear that people will just attack Bioware and EA and leave it at that while ignoring or underreporting the questionable things that other game companies do. I'm hoping this article could spark a discussion about the industry at large but sadly it's just going to be aimed at Bioware for now. Some of the issues we see regarding Bioware's development practices, corporate culture, workplace conditions and hierarchical-heavy structures might be present in the gaming industry as whole. Maybe it even extends to the entire entertainment industry, the software industry, as well as other industries. That is not the point though. The point is that Bioware products are visibly plagued through and through by these issues. Some people are quick to point out that CDPR had some issues, as well as some staff quitting. Some may point out that Bungie had some staff quitting, too. But nothing is to the point we saw from Bioware back in 2017. Aaron Flynn reportedly took 12 staff members with him. That is not normal. Besides, other companies products do not reflect questionable workplace practices. Not to a point what one while playing the game asks oneself "have the devs even played their own game?".Moreover, imagine you are working at the new Battlefield game, and you cannot talk about Call of Duty, or vice-versa. Or you are behind Dota's development but you cannot talk about League of Legends. That is just bizarre. But that is the type of workplace practice that, as far we are aware, is practiced and promoted by Bioware - and no developer other than Bioware. So yeah, it is all about Bioware, my fellow BSNer. Not even about EA, just Bioware.
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