LadyofNemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 22, 2019 9:00:35 GMT
PapaCharlie9 I'm not sure if I should be terrified or intrigued of that image it does look rather impressive The remarkable thing is they update their tree all the time. That is actually from 3.0 (about 1 year ago) and it's already been improved since then (FWIW I have 1700 hours played in PoE) I've tried the game in the past with a friend of mine, but neither of us really got into it
but that image is very impressive indeed, and the fact they keep updating it even more so
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Post by biggydx on Apr 22, 2019 19:31:36 GMT
PapaCharlie9 I'm not sure if I should be terrified or intrigued of that image it does look rather impressive The remarkable thing is they update their tree all the time. That is actually from 3.0 (about 1 year ago) and it's already been improved since then (FWIW I have 1700 hours played in PoE) Did PoE serve as inspiration for how you guys did the character kits in DA:I MP?
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Post by LukeBarrett on Apr 23, 2019 1:24:41 GMT
The remarkable thing is they update their tree all the time. That is actually from 3.0 (about 1 year ago) and it's already been improved since then (FWIW I have 1700 hours played in PoE)Did PoE serve as inspiration for how you guys did the character kits in DA:I MP? Nope, but I can tell you about the three I did specifically. Most of the time when doing pitches for characters, it usually starts as: "it's X character but with Y" as well as a statement about what problem we're trying to solve but by the end product it's almost never the same thing. ZITHER!: I was trying to get something that felt like playing Magicka (or Invoker if you're familiar with the dota hero, a game I have even more hours on). We didn't yet have a high complexity character in MP (lots of low-medium but nothing that I felt was on the higher end) and so this was meant to fill that role. I REALLY regret giving him the shield ability because the effectiveness of just spamming that was pretty high considering how much harder it is to play properly for disproportionate gains. Silent Sister: This was trying to make something a little more straight forward. When designing classes/characters it's a good idea to make sure you have a range of complexity because not everyone wants characters that revolve around a mechanic - Hall the Archer is another example of one that is very simple but effective. The goal was to try combine the speed and feel of the rogue with the survival of a guard based warrior. Ultimately I had to compromise quite a bit from the initial vision because so many aspects of each class were separate and hardcoded - this was a very good thing to evangelize never doing again for future projects. Saarebas: The pitch for this was a 'rekka' based character (Fei Long from Street Fighter) where you would chain abilities together and they changed based on what the previous one was. Due to time constraints (aka I was the only designer on MP at this time) it needed to be made a little simpler but I think it turned out alright.
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Finished Dissertation long ago lol. Now happily employed :D
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Post by biggydx on Apr 23, 2019 2:12:59 GMT
Saarebas: The pitch for this was a 'rekka' based character (Fei Long from Street Fighter) where you would chain abilities together and they changed based on what the previous one was. Due to time constraints (aka I was the only designer on MP at this time) it needed to be made a little simpler but I think it turned out alright. Considering the total number of attack combinations she had, I'd say making a character like that (primarily by yourself) is pretty clever. Me and a few buddies of mine put in at least 400 hours into MP, and one friend in particular really enjoyed Zither and Saarebas. I can see the Silent Sister being a coding nightmare, but she probably turned out to be the most survivable kit in the game, making here a good entry character for higher difficulties. I remember playing with another (former) user here, and we basically duo'd Dragonskeep on Nightmare with two Silent Sisters. My favorite kit was Katari, even before he got the Guard on hit buff, and was the first I got to 250 completions on. I think my affinity for the character had more to do with how agile you needed to be while using him, as well as ensuring you picked the right timing (and enemies) for certain abilities. To the Death was a great ability for that kit when used properly, and I think the incurred damage penalty probably scared people away from taking it. If I may ask, I know that the Arcane Warrior was troublesome for you to balance, but where there any other kits that you felt ended up falling by the wayside? Or do you think most - if not all - of them ended up where they needed to be?
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Post by LukeBarrett on Apr 23, 2019 5:35:55 GMT
If I may ask, I know that the Arcane Warrior was troublesome for you to balance, but where the any other kits that you felt ended up falling by the wayside? Or do you think most - if not all - of them ended up where they needed to be? The problem with the AW was that the change that needed to happen was fundamental to the character and so what it really needed was a complete rework which we didn't really have the resources for (compared to the need for new content to be delivered). Most of the problem characters were just ones that didn't scale well - the game eventually devolved to require lifeleech on hit/kill which meant certain kits just fell off as things got more challenging. The ones that come to mind immediately (it's been awhile since I've had to think about those kits) would be the Assassin and Necromancer, they really felt overshadowed by other ones and they had some problems inherited from combat in general for DAI.
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xrayspex73
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Post by xrayspex73 on Apr 24, 2019 18:33:26 GMT
I love these insights of the design of these classes. I adored playing Zither.
As to abilities I would like to see in DA4. This is simple. I would like the ability to play the game offline and not have it be a GaaSy mess.
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Post by colfoley on Apr 24, 2019 18:37:52 GMT
I love these insights of the design of these classes. I adored playing Zither. As to abilities I would like to see in DA4. This is simple. I would like the ability to play the game offline and not have it be a GaaSy mess. every single GaaS game I've played I've been able to play offline.
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Post by xrayspex73 on Apr 24, 2019 18:40:28 GMT
I love these insights of the design of these classes. I adored playing Zither. As to abilities I would like to see in DA4. This is simple. I would like the ability to play the game offline and not have it be a GaaSy mess. every single GaaS game I've played I've been able to play offline.
That's funny. I can't think of a single GaaS game that does not require logging into servers. Perhaps our definition of GaaS is vastly different. I would wager that the games you are referring to aren't actual GaaS games.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 25, 2019 8:48:03 GMT
every single GaaS game I've played I've been able to play offline.
That's funny. I can't think of a single GaaS game that does not require logging into servers. Perhaps our definition of GaaS is vastly different. I would wager that the games you are referring to aren't actual GaaS games.
I guess it depends on the definition one give to GaaS. Casey Hudson said that every DA game had life service elements in them so they can be considered GaaS and fit the definition and mandate EA gives to its dev teams, at least for every game that isn’t Fallen Order.
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Polka Dot
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Post by Polka Dot on May 6, 2019 4:34:01 GMT
You complained about working with the tactics menu, so I responded to that. I never found a baby in DAI's combat, just the bathwater. I found it to be a mind-numbing slog. The only way to make it at all tactical is to do the pause and issue each command individually thing - which takes far too long to be at all enjoyable. Much easier and quicker to program the tactics and let the computer carry it out. The other thing I love about that Advanced Tactics mod is that I don't have to manage any of the characters - the mod will control all 4 of them if you like. That's what I want. I'm not quite clear what "make it at all tactical" means here. Gamers are using "tactical" in a pretty ill-defined way these days. What do you mean by it? I never had to manage anyone but my PC in DAI, which is how I like it. Given the way skills work in DAI, your build pretty much defines your tactics anyway. tactics: 1 a: the science and art of disposing and maneuvering forces in combat b: the art or skill of employing available means to accomplish an end Dragon Age is party-based combat, which means you have an entire team of combatants with different skills at your disposal - and you can take control of and issue orders to any of them at any time. Or not, as is your stated preference. DAO and DA2 offered an interface that allowed players to program the combat behavior and tactics of the entire party. I want that back.
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Post by cankiie on May 7, 2019 3:24:20 GMT
I would love to see Blood Magic again.
Thing is though, I would also expect consequences attatched to that specialization as it is used, other than draining health.
If Bioware can not manage to, and I bet they can not, throw in feasible consequences for using Blood Magic as a mage then I agree with them that it is better to just not have it as a specialization at all... doing so means a lot of extra words, dialogue, maybe extra scenes, a whole new branch of story.
It would be cool... but unrealistic.
So if not Blood Magic.
Arcane Warrior or Knight Enchanter, I actually like both.
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Post by andydandymandy on May 8, 2019 20:57:19 GMT
What kind of consequences are we talking about? If we are going to Tevinter a lot people use blood magic there.
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Post by cankiie on May 8, 2019 21:32:13 GMT
What kind of consequences are we talking about? If we are going to Tevinter a lot people use blood magic there. Good point.
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Post by yogsothoth on May 8, 2019 22:31:42 GMT
Openly using Blood Magic is still supposed to be taboo in Tevinter, it's just that the Magisters get away with it. We're also probably going to be working with/for the Lucerni, and both Dorian and Maevaris have some disdain for the use of Blood Magic.
Blood Magic should return but it should still be acknowledged and have some sort of consequences, even if it isn't major.
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legbamel
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Walkin' shoes walkin' back into BSN.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: legbamel
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Post by legbamel on May 23, 2019 14:35:16 GMT
Add me to the list of people who want proper tactics back. What's the point of Cassandra being able to dispel demon spawns at a rift if she never does it on her own and rarely obeys my direction in tactical camera to do so?
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2019 1:29:52 GMT
So figured I'd expand on something I brought up in the Wishlist thread. Basically switching out classes for starting professions (similar to Andromeda) to give you a group of similar powers plus at the least a back story Origin as well as focus on different passives and attributes. Now this will set up a classless system that after that your build is up to you. Here are my humble propasals:
Non mage: Hunter:
Description: Tevinter has to get food on the table somehow and hunters still play a noted role. Anything from the largest Dragons and Wyverns to the smallest nugs, if it skitters, they kill it. Focusing on stalking their targets through the brush and engaging with precision weaponry.
Starting Abilities: Those focusing on long range, weapon of choice bows.
Bonus passives: Cunning and Dexterity as well as bonus chance to detect stealth.
Assassin:
Description: They specialize in killing with a wide variety of situations and using a wide variety of weapons. Need a rival magister to disapear? There is an Assassin for that. Need some pesky populist killed? They can do that to.
Starting abilites: Focusing on stealth, daggers, and bows.
Bonus passives: Cunning, Constitution, as well as bonus to stealth.
Vigilante:
Description: Those who see the corruption and the rot in Tevinter Society and have resolved to do something about it, by any means. Often hunted by anyone who wants to take advantage of others. Have to stick in the shadows and rely on their improvisation and skill as much as anything.
Starting abilities: Melee focused.
Bonus Passives: Focusing on Constitution and strength as well as health regeneration.
Gladiator:
Description: Trained in the brutal style of combat favored in the Tevinter fighting pits. Trained from birth or simply because their recent fortunes have fallen so far. Have to rely on their wits and their pure brutality if they have any hope to survival.
Starting Abilities: Those focused on doing damage or hamstringing an opponent.
Bonus Passives: Strength, Cunning, as well as bonus to bleeding damage.
Templar:
Description: The Elite guard of the Imperium. Those the magisters rely on to deal with any threat.
Starting abilities: Those focusing on two handed damage.
Bonus Passives: Constitution, Magic as well as doing bonus damage to mage.
Champion:
Description: Those warriors of the Imperium who take a solemn oath to help those in need and work with those to try and improve the lot of all the citizens of the Imperium.
Starting Abilities: Both self defense and group defense buffs.
Bonus Passives: Constitution and cunning as well bonus companion damage.
Anyways, this is what I have at least for the non magic side of things. May post some of my thoughts for the mage side...will see.
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Post by LukeBarrett on Jun 28, 2019 16:07:26 GMT
So figured I'd expand on something I brought up in the Wishlist thread. Basically switching out classes for starting professions (similar to Andromeda) to give you a group of similar powers plus at the least a back story Origin as well as focus on different passives and attributes. Now this will set up a classless system that after that your build is up to you. Here are my humble propasals: [SNIP] Anyways, this is what I have at least for the non magic side of things. May post some of my thoughts for the mage side...will see.
Are you suggesting we redesign how classes work for a hypothetical next entry for DA?
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2019 18:39:39 GMT
So figured I'd expand on something I brought up in the Wishlist thread. Basically switching out classes for starting professions (similar to Andromeda) to give you a group of similar powers plus at the least a back story Origin as well as focus on different passives and attributes. Now this will set up a classless system that after that your build is up to you. Here are my humble propasals: [SNIP] Anyways, this is what I have at least for the non magic side of things. May post some of my thoughts for the mage side...will see.
Are you suggesting we redesign how classes work for a hypothetical next entry for DA? Well my preference would be to not have any classes at all. But as some of my good friends here have pointed out that would be hard to do given DAs lore. So I want a magic class and a non magic class... but I was having trouble coming up with a name for the non magic one...which led me to this idea. Or adapting the start of Andromeda... things (I forget what they are called) which gave you an opening ability. Just I'd add passive buffs and unique passives to the list to give them a *little* variety. As a bonus these could double as cheap a cheap Origin which can be referenced a couple of times throughout the game.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 28, 2019 19:26:23 GMT
Are you suggesting we redesign how classes work for a hypothetical next entry for DA? Well my preference would be to not have any classes at all. But as some of my good friends here have pointed out that would be hard to do given DAs lore. So I want a magic class and a non magic class... but I was having trouble coming up with a name for the non magamegic one...which led me to this idea. Or adapting the start of Andromeda... things (I forget what they are called) which gave you an opening ability. Just I'd add passive buffs and unique passives to the list to give them a *little* variety. Just make magic use a trait, like being human vs dwarf or male vs female. If you have the trait, magic skills are unlocked. If you don’t have the trait, all magic skills are locked. Maybe give the non-trait characters an extra 10 skill points as compensation. The lore need not be an impediment to going classless ala Andromeda. In fact, I’d argue that making magic use a trait is more aligned with the lore, because you are born with traits, not with professions.
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Post by colfoley on Jun 28, 2019 19:34:11 GMT
Well my preference would be to not have any classes at all. But as some of my good friends here have pointed out that would be hard to do given DAs lore. So I want a magic class and a non magic class... but I was having trouble coming up with a name for the non magamegic one...which led me to this idea. Or adapting the start of Andromeda... things (I forget what they are called) which gave you an opening ability. Just I'd add passive buffs and unique passives to the list to give them a *little* variety. Just make magic use a trait, like being human vs dwarf or male vs female. If you have the trait, magic skills are unlocked. If you don’t have the trait, all magic skills are locked. Maybe give the non-trait characters an extra 10 skill points as compensation. The lore need not be an impediment to going classless ala Andromeda. In fact, I’d argue that making magic use a trait is more aligned with the lore, because you are born with traits, not with professions. an excellent point I hadn't considered...that could work.
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Post by Buckeldemon on Jul 2, 2019 14:47:25 GMT
Just make magic use a trait, like being human vs dwarf or male vs female. If you have the trait, magic skills are unlocked. If you don’t have the trait, all magic skills are locked. Maybe give the non-trait characters an extra 10 skill points as compensation. The lore need not be an impediment to going classless ala Andromeda. In fact, I’d argue that making magic use a trait is more aligned with the lore, because you are born with traits, not with professions. an excellent point I hadn't considered...that could work. I've seen a few discussion about class and flexibility over at the DA wiki and while I did not play MEA yet, I actually like the idea of magic being a trait rather than a class. My only objection would be about the skill points: I suggest splitting them instead of giving more, i.e. while non-magical characters would get, for example, 40 universal skill points that may be used to learn anything, magic-capable characters would get 25 universal skill points and 15 special/magic skill points that can only be used for learning magical stuff.
Oh, and I would like to get rid of certain restrictions regarding utility skills, like the old annyoing "only rogues are allowed to pick locks" shtick. Either allow any character to learn it, or give alternatives to lockpicking, like ... just destroying an offending door with either a maul or fireball. DAI already made a step into that direction by giving all classes an innate abilitiy do get rid of one specific 'obstacle'.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2019 14:53:12 GMT
An actual warrior mage specialisation! Let us channel our magic powers through a sword!
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 2, 2019 18:53:19 GMT
An actual warrior mage specialisation! Let us channel our magic powers through a sword! This, I love playing Paladins and the like in fantasy RPGs. The Templar and Arcane Warrior specialization don't quite cut it for me, they are still too much rooted in their base class (warrior or mage respectively). I'd like to see some sort of true hybrid.
I get that this might be tough to explain with the lore though, since mage training in Thedas is so specific and no one sane would train a mage (scary enough) also into a warrior, especailly after ... what happened.
Maybe in Tevinter though?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Jul 2, 2019 19:16:22 GMT
An actual warrior mage specialisation! Let us channel our magic powers through a sword! This, I love playing Paladins and the like in fantasy RPGs. The Templar and Arcane Warrior specialization don't quite cut it for me, they are still too much rooted in their base class (warrior or mage respectively). I'd like to see some sort of true hybrid.
I get that this might be tough to explain with the lore though, since mage training in Thedas is so specific and no one sane would train a mage (scary enough) also into a warrior, especailly after ... what happened.
Maybe in Tevinter though? I do it all the time in Skyrim, in fact all my Dragonborn characters are mage warriors in some shape of form. Would be nice to actually carry that type of play style in DA. Because I do sometimes get confused in DA and rush up ahead to attack in close range with a mage...
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Post by AnDromedary on Jul 2, 2019 19:19:46 GMT
I do it all the time in Skyrim, in fact all my Dragonborn characters are mage warriors in some shape of form. Same here. "Confused Mage" sounds like a great class name.
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