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Post by Sartoz on Mar 24, 2019 16:44:37 GMT
How much of the game do you have to play to have a valid opinion? It is an interesting question and one I think is nuanced. I think you can have a 'valid' opinion because you have read a consensus or arrived at a view through videos, or articles. The opinion could be valid by virtue of being a personal preference about something where your preference is yours to have. But knowledge gained by actually playng the thing lends credibility to the opinion. It's going to take more work, argument or citations (though it is certainly possible) to defend a valid point without actual experience, I would have thought.
Unfortunately, the only opinion that counts is EA's. Looking back at ME:A, this publisher's only interest is the bottom line.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 24, 2019 16:48:45 GMT
It is an interesting question and one I think is nuanced. I think you can have a 'valid' opinion because you have read a consensus or arrived at a view through videos, or articles. The opinion could be valid by virtue of being a personal preference about something where your preference is yours to have. But knowledge gained by actually playng the thing lends credibility to the opinion. It's going to take more work, argument or citations (though it is certainly possible) to defend a valid point without actual experience, I would have thought.
Unfortunately, the only opinion that counts is EA's. Looking back at ME:A, this publisher's only interest is the bottom line.
If that is the case the bottom line is looking solid then for the first hurdle.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 24, 2019 16:52:44 GMT
Anthem needs mtx revenue to generate live service content. One can easily extrapolate the various scenarios. However, with an insufficient player base the mtx revenue is simply not there to support new content. Conceptually, that is certainly true. We don't know for sure (a very long way from sure, actually): - How many copies were sold.
- How many people subscribed to Premier in lieu of purchase.
- The size of the player-base at launch.
- The size of the player-base now.
- How many players are prepared to drop back in with new content.
- What percentage of MTX sales/month represents ongoing viability.
Perhaps the EA Earnings Call, May 7th, will give us some clues. Either way, I'm seeing no great urge to sell lots of new stuff in the vanity store, to the point people are complaining that they have insufficient to spend real money on. That doesn't look like a 'panic to sell' to me.
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We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 24, 2019 17:06:55 GMT
Anthem needs mtx revenue to generate live service content. One can easily extrapolate the various scenarios. However, with an insufficient player base the mtx revenue is simply not there to support new content. Conceptually, that is certainly true. We don't know for sure (a very long way from sure, actually): - How many copies were sold.
- How many people subscribed to Premier in lieu of purchase.
- The size of the player-base at launch.
- The size of the player-base now.
- How many players are prepared to drop back in with new content.
- What percentage of MTX sales/month represents ongoing viability.
Perhaps the EA Earnings Call, May 7th, will give us some clues. Either way, I'm seeing no great urge to sell lots of new stuff in the vanity store, to the point people are complaining that they have insufficient to spend real money on. That doesn't look like a 'panic to sell' to me. - True, but we do know that the initial numbers were very high.
- We are likely never going to know since EA don't divulge them.
- Depended on the first point.
- Same as above.
- No idea about those two last points, perhaps some infer can be done using other online games of the genre.
- Same as above
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Post by Iakus on Mar 24, 2019 17:17:11 GMT
Toxic clickbaiter. I'd sooner take my neighbour's cat as a credible source. (that doesn't mean I reject the possibility, but this is no evidence at all) descartes said it best. 1+1=2 for me and for God alike, what he did was nothing but offer numbers and compare them the relevant data from other launches and EA's own statements all of which are public knowledge. But it's a negative opinion. Ergo, clickbait.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 24, 2019 17:24:53 GMT
Only here you will see people trying to claim clickbait youtubers are a credible source of information...
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 24, 2019 17:39:04 GMT
Either way, I'm seeing no great urge to sell lots of new stuff in the vanity store, to the point people are complaining that they have insufficient to spend real money on. That doesn't look like a 'panic to sell' to me. If they were betting on big MTX earnings in first months they wouldn't give us so much free in-game coin at the start so we could easily buy everything without spending a cent on premium currency. People are just being silly. BW starts slow with this because having 100 zillion sets and items in the shop would immediately produce an avalanche of complaints about how many years or months people would have to grind or pay in real money to get it all - we know it would happen, because we've had a prelude of that prior to release. They're still trying to find a balance before they steadily increase the flow of goodies to get or buy, given that it's a contentious topic regardless of what they'd be doing. I also remember how ESO crown store started - first year or so? "Eh, there's not much to buy - what would I even buy crowns for?" Now? "Holy crap, I want this and I want this and I want this and I don't have enough crowns!!"
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 24, 2019 18:04:10 GMT
And I suspect EA needed an outcry about the MTX in Anthem being 'too greedy' at launch while the game was buggy, like a hole in the head.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 24, 2019 18:08:29 GMT
descartes said it best. 1+1=2 for me and for God alike, what he did was nothing but offer numbers and compare them the relevant data from other launches and EA's own statements all of which are public knowledge. But it's a negative opinion. Ergo, clickbait.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 24, 2019 18:09:33 GMT
Only here you will see people trying to claim clickbait youtubers are a credible source of information... Upper echelon... He's one of those who made a big thing out of Anthem getting half the numbers on the UK physical chart of Andromeda yet is a ok with TD2 managing a fifth of TD1. 🙄
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Post by saandrig on Mar 24, 2019 20:15:31 GMT
Only here you will see people trying to claim clickbait youtubers are a credible source of information... Upper echelon... He's one of those who made a big thing out of Anthem getting half the numbers on the UK physical chart of Andromeda yet is a ok with TD2 managing a fifth of TD1. 🙄 Truth be told though - MEA sold badly while TD1 broke sales records. A fifth of TD1 is probably much more than the half of MEA. Judging by a single market however never tells the full story. And looking by the current top 10 in the UK I doubt it represents the world sales trend well.
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N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
Prime Likes: They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 24, 2019 21:11:09 GMT
Upper echelon... He's one of those who made a big thing out of Anthem getting half the numbers on the UK physical chart of Andromeda yet is a ok with TD2 managing a fifth of TD1. 🙄 Truth be told though - MEA sold badly while TD1 broke sales records. A fifth of TD1 is probably much more than the half of MEA. Judging by a single market however never tells the full story. And looking by the current top 10 in the UK I doubt it represents the world sales trend well. We know that the difference between Anthem and TD2 are a mere ~5k units. So it's actually not much more at all. And no MEA did "really, really well".
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Post by river82 on Mar 24, 2019 21:21:46 GMT
How much of the game do you have to play to have a valid opinion? Well, according to certain people during the MEA release? All of it, anything less and your opinion is not informed enough. These sorts of people tire me. "You have to get past the first twenty hours, no thirty, no halfway point before it actually gets good. If you want to play that's what you have to do". I don't have the time to put twenty hours into every game I don't enjoy just so I can validate my non-enjoyment of the game. If it doesn't get good in the first twenty hours, then the game has a major problem anyway.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 24, 2019 22:31:05 GMT
Well, according to certain people during the MEA release? All of it, anything less and your opinion is not informed enough. These sorts of people tire me. "You have to get past the first twenty hours, no thirty, no halfway point before it actually gets good. If you want to play that's what you have to do". I don't have the time to put twenty hours into every game I don't enjoy just so I can validate my non-enjoyment of the game. If it doesn't get good in the first twenty hours, then the game has a major problem anyway. Meanwhile, we had an uncountable amount of 'I played the game for an hour and it's great' comments.
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Post by NotN7 on Mar 24, 2019 23:12:09 GMT
These sorts of people tire me. "You have to get past the first twenty hours, no thirty, no halfway point before it actually gets good. If you want to play that's what you have to do". I don't have the time to put twenty hours into every game I don't enjoy just so I can validate my non-enjoyment of the game. If it doesn't get good in the first twenty hours, then the game has a major problem anyway. Meanwhile, we had an uncountable amount of 'I played the game for an hour and it's great' comments. Yes and we have had a lot of I played the 10 hr. free trial and get all that's wrong with the game when other people start complaining cause they never did they are nothing more than a mouth piece of hate, sound familiar?
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The Fat Controller
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by officerdonnz on Mar 24, 2019 23:31:44 GMT
Either way, I'm seeing no great urge to sell lots of new stuff in the vanity store, to the point people are complaining that they have insufficient to spend real money on. That doesn't look like a 'panic to sell' to me. If they were betting on big MTX earnings in first months they wouldn't give us so much free in-game coin at the start so we could easily buy everything without spending a cent on premium currency. People are just being silly. BW starts slow with this because having 100 zillion sets and items on the shop would immediately produce an avalanche of complaints about how many years or months people would have to grind or pay in real money to get it all - we know it would happen, because we've had a prelude of that prior to release. They're still trying to find a balance before they steadily increase the flow of goodies to get or buy, given that it's a contentious topic regardless of what they'd be doing. I also remember how ESO crown store started - first year or so? "Eh, there's not much to buy - what would I even buy crowns for?" Now? "Holy crap, I want this and I want this and I want this and I don't have enough crowns!!" This is how the Cartel Market worked in SWTOR as well. Though I'm very fussy and only bought stuff that appealed to me. Still have yet to get all the KOTOR themed armour sets
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 24, 2019 23:56:13 GMT
Meanwhile, we had an uncountable amount of 'I played the game for an hour and it's great' comments. Yes and we have had a lot of I played the 10 hr. free trial and get all that's wrong with the game when other people start complaining cause they never did they are nothing more than a mouth piece of hate, sound familiar? Yeah there's unfortunately a lot of that going on, particularly here.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 25, 2019 0:38:17 GMT
Well, according to certain people during the MEA release? All of it, anything less and your opinion is not informed enough. These sorts of people tire me. "You have to get past the first twenty hours, no thirty, no halfway point before it actually gets good. If you want to play that's what you have to do". I don't have the time to put twenty hours into every game I don't enjoy just so I can validate my non-enjoyment of the game. If it doesn't get good in the first twenty hours, then the game has a major problem anyway. Indeed, I often get the same thing when I express how I dislike Deep Space Nine because the first 2 seasons were utterly droll and uninteresting to me. "You have to get past that! If you wanna enjoy the show you gotta do that! It's better later!" No... even if that is true (and in DS9's case I'm sure it is) I'm not sitting through 2 seasons of something I don't enjoy just to get to the "good stuff". That is a ridiculous mentality to me.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 25, 2019 1:45:22 GMT
Of course, it's easy enough to just skip episodes of a TV show. For DS9, for instance, you can just watch the pilot and the last ep of season 2, and you're good to go. I'd run he same strategy with TNG too.
No precise equivalent in gaming, although the amount of time you actually have to spend in ME:A's OW environments is minimal, for instance.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Mar 25, 2019 9:39:40 GMT
Of course, it's easy enough to just skip episodes of a TV show. For DS9, for instance, you can just watch the pilot and the last ep of season 2, and you're good to go. I'd run he same strategy with TNG too. No precise equivalent in gaming, although the amount of time you actually have to spend in ME:A's OW environments is minimal, for instance. I know, unfortunately, I am too OCD to skip episodes, for any show. I don't even skip the ones I KNOW are utter trash, like Move Along Home, Code of Honor, Threshhold, Q and the Grey etc. If I try to skip them it just nags at me until I go back.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 25, 2019 11:58:41 GMT
Unfortunately, the only opinion that counts is EA's. Looking back at ME:A, this publisher's only interest is the bottom line.
If that is the case the bottom line is looking solid then for the first hurdle.
Hm... you must be referring to the 100M dollars plus the number two spot in the chart. A pure marketing spin on a disaster if you go by the 5-6 million unit sales projection (in 37 days) from EA. Truly, if the sales were that good EA would announce their numbers by now.
No matter, I hope the concurrent player base is sufficient to generate the mtx revenue Bio needs to sustain developing new content.
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 25, 2019 12:18:06 GMT
As for Anthem, while I've been enjoying it, I'd like the launch version to turn out like the first season of the Next Generation. Clunky but promising and a foretaste for something that gets a ton better.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,362 Likes: 6,910
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Post by saandrig on Mar 25, 2019 14:15:07 GMT
As for Anthem, while I've been enjoying it, I'd like the launch version to turn out like the first season of the Next Generation. Clunky but promising and a foretaste for something that gets a ton better. But they need to kick Gene...I mean Ben to the sidelines though. Worked wonders for TNG...I mean SWTOR...well, not wonders, but made SWTOR a bit better.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 25, 2019 14:25:42 GMT
If that is the case the bottom line is looking solid then for the first hurdle.
Hm... you must be referring to the 100M dollars plus the number two spot in the chart. A pure marketing spin on a disaster if you go by the 5-6 million unit sales projection (in 37 days) from EA. Truly, if the sales were that good EA would announce their numbers by now.
No matter, I hope the concurrent player base is sufficient to generate the mtx revenue Bio needs to sustain developing new content.
Good luck on this. I've already tried to explain the numbers, but some people are too easily overwhelmed by headlines and spin. If they want to continue to think that millions short of the mark (the $100 million digital revenue is my favorite, as that implies only ~1.66 million copies sold assuming zero mtx or LoD version sales) is a good result, there's no convincing them. People are easily manipulated.
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 25, 2019 15:55:16 GMT
Hm... you must be referring to the 100M dollars plus the number two spot in the chart. A pure marketing spin on a disaster if you go by the 5-6 million unit sales projection (in 37 days) from EA. Truly, if the sales were that good EA would announce their numbers by now.
No matter, I hope the concurrent player base is sufficient to generate the mtx revenue Bio needs to sustain developing new content.
Good luck on this. I've already tried to explain the numbers, but some people are too easily overwhelmed by headlines and spin. If they want to continue to think that millions short of the mark (the $100 million digital revenue is my favorite, as that implies only ~1.66 million copies sold assuming zero mtx or LoD version sales) is a good result, there's no convincing them. People are easily manipulated. the problem is that contradicts the games current 2nd place spot in overall sales for the year from NPD. Unless that has changed as more sales data comes in, we know Kingdom Hearts III is sitting at around 5 million copies in early February. We also know that Resident Evil 2 was 3rd on that list, and was around 4 million units at the end of February. We also know the NPD numbers are tracking console sales, not PC digital sales, and not Origin Access Primer. Taking that all into consideration, the 1.66 million implied does not match up with overall ranking, unless the numbers are incorrect on NPD, and they are usually the most reliable, and the purchases of Resident Evil 2 or the like made less money, but sold more units somehow. I am also not sure if the 1.66 number is fully accurate. For example when taking into consideration the $100 million in digital revenue, was it based on what EA makes off the game? That is always a bit unclear; it seems to imply that EA netted that amount for themselves. Also into that consideration; does that number include the full price of a $60 title, or just their overall cut of the title which is substantially lower when it comes to physical copies, maybe an average of only $25 (not sure the exact number, making that up). If that is the case, then the $100 million could be focusing only only $25 per game, instead of $60. That is just for physical sales alone too, digital it may be a bigger slice for EA but suffers similar distribution of cost to dev salaries, overhead, marketing, and so on. I don't know what the real sell-through is, but the implications ultimately is that the game sold well upon launch enough to be in a top spot. Will it continue to sell, that I can't answer. The 3.5 million in digital purchases is more troubling to me because that is the long-term lifeblood.
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