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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 20, 2019 1:40:06 GMT
Capcom announced they shipped 4 million of copies of Resident Evil 2 Remake in a tweet on february 26.
Actual sales should be a bit lower but still Anthem beat RE2 numbers without origin sales being counted. Now if only we had a more or less accurate estimative of how much (%) origin sales represent on Bioware games we could try starting to take good guesses on how much Anthem sold. Resident evil 2 remake released in January, not february. Those 4 million were shipped over 2 months. Anthem had the biggest launch out of all games that were released in February. Resident evil was not one of those games lol. They’re pointing out how Anthem has sold better so far this year than that game so Anthem has sold at least 4 million copies.
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Post by bshep on Mar 20, 2019 1:46:33 GMT
Capcom announced they shipped 4 million of copies of Resident Evil 2 Remake in a tweet on february 26.
Actual sales should be a bit lower but still Anthem beat RE2 numbers without origin sales being counted. Now if only we had a more or less accurate estimative of how much (%) origin sales represent on Bioware games we could try starting to take good guesses on how much Anthem sold. Resident evil 2 remake released in January, not february. Those 4 million were shipped over 2 months. Anthem had the biggest launch out of all games that were released in February. Resident evil was not one of those games lol. Resident Evil 2 Remake is the third most sold game of 2019 so far while Anthem is the second most sold. Plus why it makes sense to compare them.
And by the way, those 4 million units were shipped over 1 month, not two. RE2 was released on january 25 and Capcom'a tweet is from a month later.
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Post by OdanUrr on Mar 20, 2019 1:47:53 GMT
Resident evil 2 remake released in January, not february. Those 4 million were shipped over 2 months. Anthem had the biggest launch out of all games that were released in February. Resident evil was not one of those games lol. They’re pointing out how Anthem has sold better so far this year than that game so Anthem has sold at least 4 million copies. If those 4 million units were sold instead of shipped, you'd be right. However, we don't know how many out of the 4 millions copies shipped were sold.
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Post by bshep on Mar 20, 2019 1:52:07 GMT
They’re pointing out how Anthem has sold better so far this year than that game so Anthem has sold at least 4 million copies. If those 4 million units were sold instead of shipped, you'd be right. However, we don't know how many out of the 4 millions copies shipped were sold. Likely most of them, since Capcom had already revealed the game sold 3 million copies after the first week.
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Post by OdanUrr on Mar 20, 2019 1:59:28 GMT
If those 4 million units were sold instead of shipped, you'd be right. However, we don't know how many out of the 4 millions copies shipped were sold. Likely most of them, since Capcom had already revealed the game sold 3 million copies after the first week. 3 million units sold on its first week plus a million more in the following weeks seems reasonable then. That would suggest Anthem has sold more units, but I'd have to take a look at how they arrived at the dollar sales numbers (e.g.: are programs like EA Access and Origin Access accounted for or not?). The fact EA has yet to discount the title on a sale seems to reinforce this.
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Post by OdanUrr on Mar 20, 2019 2:07:46 GMT
Since we're talking numbers, KH3, which is featured as the best selling title year-to-date 2019, was announced in early February to have shipped more than 5 millions units in less than a week, both physically and digitally. I've yet to find concrete numbers on how much it may have sold by the end of February.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 20, 2019 2:16:51 GMT
That's... great and all on sales, I guess, but it seems everyone's forgetting that even if they hit sales projections, EA invested heavily on the basis that Anthem would turn a huge revenue tail. EA just launched a product that forgoes all up-front sale revenue in favor of cosmetic mtx revenue of the kind Anthem was supposed to produce. That should tell you what they expect from downstream revenues compared to up-front sales revenues.
Meanwhile, Anthem literally has less than 1k viewers on Twitch as I type this. Apex has over 100k. GTA is over 200k.
Analysts covering destiny put enormous emphasis on player count for a reason.
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Post by OdanUrr on Mar 20, 2019 2:19:53 GMT
That's... great and all on sales, I guess, but it seems everyone's forgetting that even if they hit sales projections, EA invested heavily on the basis that Anthem would turn a huge revenue tail. EA just launched a free to play game whose entire revenue stream is generated from cosmetic mtx of the kind Anthem was supposed to produce. That should tell you what they expect from downstream revenues compared to up-front sales revenues. Meanwhile, Anthem literally has less than 1k viewers on Twitch as I type this. Apex has over 100k. GTA is over 200k. Analysts covering destiny put enormous emphasis on player count for a reason. That's a good point. Anthem's supposed to be a GaaS title so EA will also be taking the longer view on revenue.
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 20, 2019 2:21:54 GMT
That's... great and all on sales, I guess, but it seems everyone's forgetting that even if they hit sales projections, EA invested heavily on the basis that Anthem would turn a huge revenue tail. EA just launched a free to play game whose entire revenue stream is generated from cosmetic mtx of the kind Anthem was supposed to produce. That should tell you what they expect from downstream revenues compared to up-front sales revenues. Meanwhile, Anthem literally has less than 1k viewers on Twitch as I type this. Apex has over 100k. GTA is over 200k. Analysts covering destiny put enormous emphasis on player count for a reason. That's a good point. Anthem's supposed to be a GaaS title so EA will also be taking the longer view on revenue. That's not even accounting for the massive disparity between Anthem and RE2 (and even KH3) in development time and cost. There's nothing that's launched this year that's been in development for as long as Anthem, and each game Anthem is being compared to is well positioned for its revenue tail through dlc and whatnot.
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Post by clips7 on Mar 20, 2019 3:33:12 GMT
I loved RE2 ReMake....but if we are talking numbers...eh there are alot of parameters.....RE2 most likely made their money back since like others have mentioned, they sold 3 million in the first week (more than the lifetime sales of RE7).....and they most likely dropped another million in sales recently. Combine that with them using their in-house engine to create RE2 and Capcom at this point is already just sitting on pure profits from the game at this point. There are rumors they are already working on RE3-ReMake...can't wait for that one either. Anthem?...even tho it's not my type of game, i'm glad they are not fumbling out of the gate as bad as Andromeda. What Anthem had going for it all along was that the javelins have a slick and sleek design and the flying and combat is fun. The core enjoyment of the game is there....problem with it at this point is/was purely technical and hopefully with compelling and interesting content coming down the pike, Anthem looks like it will survive it's awkward launch and rebound in the later months. On the one hand i want to see Anthem succeed because it means Bioware will be around for awhile, but it also means that with it's success, we may not see games like Mass Effect or Dragon Age (not my type of game either..just sayin) since i'm sure EA will like the smell of money this game will generate once it gets going...i'd be a bit more confident if i felt EA was a company that would let Bioware multi-task with them supporting Anthem and allowing Bioware to make great SP games, but i don't see them doing that. Dragon Age is already being worked on, but idk...i just have a feeling its going to be a loooong time before we see the next Mass Effect game.....we'll see.....in any case good for Bioware.....
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 20, 2019 3:58:53 GMT
That's a good point. Anthem's supposed to be a GaaS title so EA will also be taking the longer view on revenue. That's not even accounting for the massive disparity between Anthem and RE2 (and even KH3) in development time and cost. There's nothing that's launched this year that's been in development for as long as Anthem, and each game Anthem is being compared to is well positioned for its revenue tail through dlc and whatnot. Kingdom Hearts three was in development for nearly 6 to 7 years if i recall. It also had a pre production process that began in 2005 but was halted due to final fantasy xv. If anything it's comprable in terms of timeframe. And in that time it also suffered a bit like ff xv by going through an engine change.
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Post by bshep on Mar 20, 2019 5:46:28 GMT
I loved RE2 ReMake....but if we are talking numbers...eh there are alot of parameters.....RE2 most likely made their money back since like others have mentioned, they sold 3 million in the first week (more than the lifetime sales of RE7).....and they most likely dropped another million in sales recently. Combine that with them using their in-house engine to create RE2 and Capcom at this point is already just sitting on pure profits from the game at this point. [...] Just a small correction, RE7 sold 6.1 million copies as of 31/12/2018.
But yeah making close to 4M in a month i wouldn't be surprised if RE2 Remake passes it.
That's not even accounting for the massive disparity between Anthem and RE2 (and even KH3) in development time and cost. There's nothing that's launched this year that's been in development for as long as Anthem, and each game Anthem is being compared to is well positioned for its revenue tail through dlc and whatnot. Kingdom Hearts three was in development for nearly 6 to 7 years if i recall. It also had a pre production process that began in 2005 but was halted due to final fantasy xv. If anything it's comprable in terms of timeframe. And in that time it also suffered a bit like ff xv by going through an engine change. Game was announced at E3 2013. So pretty much the same time being developed.
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Post by river82 on Mar 20, 2019 6:37:37 GMT
If those 4 million units were sold instead of shipped, you'd be right. However, we don't know how many out of the 4 millions copies shipped were sold. Likely most of them, since Capcom had already revealed the game sold 3 million copies after the first week. Credit where credit is due, it's a much better result than what I was expecting 0.0 But I think Capcom meant "sold to retailers" or shipped here. Mainly because if they sold 3 million copies in the first week, why wait till the end of the month to ship 4 million? That is a bit weird to me. The terminology is confusing so you really need a direct and long quote of what they said to get context. It's why half the gaming publications write "sold 3 million" and half write "shipped 3 million", basically they rushed out an article and didn't do the required work involved to clarify the issue for readers. Another thing to be wary of is that I think RE does better in Europe than America, and that could affect guesswork of how well Anthem sold based on American data? Dunno. But I think we know the reason why Bioware devs were never worried about how well Anthem was doing or not. Sure drop off may be significant, but there's a fun core and a solid player base, give it a year or two and we may be looking at a pretty major player. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
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Post by saandrig on Mar 20, 2019 7:14:50 GMT
Wait, wait, wait, hold your horses. So, when in the past months we talked about looter shooter launches and I pointed out how Division, Destiny 1 and 2 broke industry records in sales (not second place at the start of a year - industry records) I was repeatedly being told by people that "sales mean nothing, games were shit and had crap launches". And now I see the same people in this thread are breaking up the champagne and being smug that Anthem is so awesome because it sold second at the start of a year with barely any competition yet.
I am confused here, people. I need a straight answer - do sales matter or not? Make up your mind!
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Post by river82 on Mar 20, 2019 7:19:33 GMT
Wait, wait, wait, hold your horses. So, when in the past months we talked about looter shooter launches and I pointed out how Division, Destiny 1 and 2 broke industry records in sales (not second place at the start of a year - industry records) I was repeatedly being told by people that "sales mean nothing, games were shit and had crap launches". And now I see the same people in this thread are breaking up the champagne and being smug that Anthem is so awesome because it sold second at the start of a year with barely any competition yet. I am confused here, people. I need a straight answer - do sales matter or not? Make up your mind! Overall sales matter, having mindblowing initial sales don't matter as much in a genre which emphasises longevity, but having a good initial player base will help Bioware lure them back later on. FFXIV had one of the worst launches in MMO history and is now in a good position to dethrone WOW. But it helps for sure.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 20, 2019 10:15:48 GMT
Well, ME3 was released 2012 so they wouldn't have digital data for either of them (ME3 not Andromeda). EDIT: They would have just compared physical data to physical data I was trying to point out that ME3's physical sales might have been higher than DA:I's where digital may have had a higher proportion. But there's still something... wonky going on with NPD's data. At any rate though, Anthem's initial sales are clearly better than I think most had expected. I'm kinda surprised BW hadn't talked this point up themselves...
Below their internal projections, I suspect.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 20, 2019 10:20:58 GMT
That's... great and all on sales, I guess, but it seems everyone's forgetting that even if they hit sales projections, EA invested heavily on the basis that Anthem would turn a huge revenue tail. EA just launched a free to play game whose entire revenue stream is generated from cosmetic mtx of the kind Anthem was supposed to produce. That should tell you what they expect from downstream revenues compared to up-front sales revenues. Meanwhile, Anthem literally has less than 1k viewers on Twitch as I type this. Apex has over 100k. GTA is over 200k. Analysts covering destiny put enormous emphasis on player count for a reason. That's a good point. Anthem's supposed to be a GaaS title so EA will also be taking the longer view on revenue.
Indeed? With 1K vs 100K and 200K EA is still looking at the long view?
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Post by OdanUrr on Mar 20, 2019 10:26:17 GMT
That's a good point. Anthem's supposed to be a GaaS title so EA will also be taking the longer view on revenue.
Indeed? With 1K vs 100K and 200K EA is still looking at the long view? Well, I don't think they're gonna give up on it after one month. They'll likely wait and see if they can turn it around within the year and make a decision, but this is entirely speculation on my part.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 20, 2019 10:31:42 GMT
I wonder how the initial sales compare to the 6 million in the first two weeks projections they stated.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 20, 2019 10:37:11 GMT
Likely most of them, since Capcom had already revealed the game sold 3 million copies after the first week. Credit where credit is due, it's a much better result than what I was expecting 0.0 But I think Capcom meant "sold to retailers" or shipped here. Mainly because if they sold 3 million copies in the first week, why wait till the end of the month to ship 4 million? That is a bit weird to me. The terminology is confusing so you really need a direct and long quote of what they said to get context. It's why half the gaming publications write "sold 3 million" and half write "shipped 3 million", basically they rushed out an article and didn't do the required work involved to clarify the issue for readers. Another thing to be wary of is that I think RE does better in Europe than America, and that could affect guesswork of how well Anthem sold based on American data? Dunno. But I think we know the reason why Bioware devs were never worried about how well Anthem was doing or not. Sure drop off may be significant, but there's a fun core and a solid player base, give it a year or two and we may be looking at a pretty major player. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
Retailer don't buy games. My wife worked as a merchandiser. Companies ship stock. Stock is displayed and sold. After some time, unsold stock is returned to the companie/supplier.... this included physical copies of games DVDs... etc.
Therefore be wary when "sold" really means "shipped". My wife constantly (and other merchandizers) complained about Disney (as an example) over shipping stock that never could be sold. Although, at times, buyers from a merch company would be at fault when they issued to Disney "send me" x units of product y. Since merch companies want to continue holding a merchandizing contract with a publisher/supplier they can attempt to oversell to show them "see I move N units/mo see how good I am?".
Just saying....
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 20, 2019 11:11:30 GMT
That's not even accounting for the massive disparity between Anthem and RE2 (and even KH3) in development time and cost. There's nothing that's launched this year that's been in development for as long as Anthem, and each game Anthem is being compared to is well positioned for its revenue tail through dlc and whatnot. Kingdom Hearts three was in development for nearly 6 to 7 years if i recall. It also had a pre production process that began in 2005 but was halted due to final fantasy xv. If anything it's comprable in terms of timeframe. And in that time it also suffered a bit like ff xv by going through an engine change. Five, and they had an enormous amount of help from Pixar.
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Post by river82 on Mar 20, 2019 11:15:15 GMT
Credit where credit is due, it's a much better result than what I was expecting 0.0 But I think Capcom meant "sold to retailers" or shipped here. Mainly because if they sold 3 million copies in the first week, why wait till the end of the month to ship 4 million? That is a bit weird to me. The terminology is confusing so you really need a direct and long quote of what they said to get context. It's why half the gaming publications write "sold 3 million" and half write "shipped 3 million", basically they rushed out an article and didn't do the required work involved to clarify the issue for readers. Another thing to be wary of is that I think RE does better in Europe than America, and that could affect guesswork of how well Anthem sold based on American data? Dunno. But I think we know the reason why Bioware devs were never worried about how well Anthem was doing or not. Sure drop off may be significant, but there's a fun core and a solid player base, give it a year or two and we may be looking at a pretty major player. Will be interesting to see how it goes.
Retailer don't buy games. My wife worked as a merchandiser. Companies ship stock. Stock is displayed and sold. After some time, unsold stock is returned to the companie/supplier.... this included physical copies of games DVDs... etc.
Therefore be wary when "sold" really means "shipped". My wife constantly (and other merchandizers) complained about Disney (as an example) over shipping stock that never could be sold. Although, at times, buyers from a merch company would be at fault when they issued to Disney "send me" x units of product y. Since merch companies want to continue holding a merchandizing contract with a publisher/supplier they can attempt to oversell to show them "see I move N units/mo see how good I am?".
Just saying....
Games are sold to retailers at a discount, this is called "sell-in" commonly termed shipped but can also be called sold. At this point these products are listed in the financial records of companies as "revenue booked" - they consider them pretty much sold. These games are marked up by retailers and sold to the customer, this is called "sell-through". sometimes unsold product can be sent back for a refund or maybe an exchange, usually deals made with larger retailers with more clout, sometimes there is no deal in place and retailers have to slash prices to $5 to move the damn things, smaller or independent retailers have little bargaining clout. EDIT: Retailers are billed when the product is shipped, payment is usually expected soon after, retailers keep all the sell-through money. I believe that's usually how these things go.
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N6
Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Sanunes
Just a flip of the coin.
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sanunes
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Mar 20, 2019 13:05:06 GMT
I think everyone is going to try and find numbers that fit what they are seeing with the game. It was mentioned Twitch viewership for Anthem and yes it is low, but at the same time I don't think Apex is a good game to compare it to because of the multiplayer aspect of the game. If you look right now Anthem has about 600 viewers as I type this and maybe a more similar game would be The Division 2 since it doesn't have a multiplayer aspect and it was only released a week ago and only has 15.5k viewers at this moment.
EA predicted that Anthem would have it highest digital sell rate currently due to its always online nature. My guess is that more people will buy digitally for a game like Anthem for when the servers disappear the game will never play again.
In reality nobody knows how any game really does in the eyes of the developer and publisher most of the time and EA and BioWare before EA were always fairly tight lipped about the sales numbers unless there was a major milestone hit. I do expect to see Anthem mentioned in EA's investor reports, but other then that I doubt they are going to say anything else because people will always make the numbers fit what they are seeing and for EA that could have problems with the investor's view of the company stock based on what people say on YouTube and starts to make the rounds.
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
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correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
correctamundo1
A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 20, 2019 13:18:12 GMT
I wonder how the initial sales compare to the 6 million in the first two weeks projections they stated. When and where did they state that?
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correctamundo
N5
Dr Obfuscate
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: correctamundo1
Prime Posts: A thousand and then some.
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correctamundo
Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
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correctamundo
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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A thousand and then some.
They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 20, 2019 13:19:59 GMT
Well, ME3 was released 2012 so they wouldn't have digital data for either of them (ME3 not Andromeda). EDIT: They would have just compared physical data to physical data I was trying to point out that ME3's physical sales might have been higher than DA:I's where digital may have had a higher proportion. But there's still something... wonky going on with NPD's data. At any rate though, Anthem's initial sales are clearly better than I think most had expected. I'm kinda surprised BW hadn't talked this point up themselves... Did you forget "Don't sweat this guys, seriously"...?
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