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Post by cypherj on Mar 22, 2019 17:58:40 GMT
Don't sweat it, SWTOR is not shut down yet after 2.5 years of almost maintenance mode.
And the positive is fine if you ask me, but it doesn't mean you should shut your eyes and ears and sing La La La to the other circumstances surrounding it. I am sure if we pull the bestsellers of February (and other months probably) in past years you will see games you never even heard of. Were they awesome epics because of it? Or just sold good and it's too early to say if it will turn good or bad. I am on the skeptic side about Anthem (obviously), but I can pull my old comments where I expressed no doubt Anthem will sell well at launch purely because of the great marketing and no competition.
That being said, I have zero clue what EA is doing with their release strategy for BioWare games after DAI. "Mass Effect Andromeda" was obviously not ready for March 21st, 2017 release as patches 1.01-1.03 were enough to get it into a relatively functioning, albeit exposed, state. On top of that, you allow people 10 hr early access, pre-day 1 patch, through EA Access so people, including critics, can pick it apart prior to release... And then you repeat the pattern (unfinished game, early access through EA Access) with an online-only game that has not sorted out it's connectivity issues. I'm baffled, honestly, as I don't see the long term financial or reputational gain by doing this unless EA just said to BioWare "Release it...now...in whatever state...we need something, anything, for Q4 2018" but, again, it feels incredibly short sighted. They missed earnings last quarter. They really couldn't afford to take the six million copies they anticipated for the first month of Anthem sales out of this quarter. They need to bounce back strong this quarter. As an accountant, this was the correct move. As a gamer, obviously I don't agree with releasing a game in this state. Also, you just want to keep projects in the fiscal year they were planned. Andromeda was the same. They pushed back the launch date once, and then made sure the new release date allowed the launch window to be in the current fiscal year.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 22, 2019 18:04:34 GMT
I'm baffled, honestly, as I don't see the long term financial or reputational gain by doing this unless EA just said to BioWare "Release it...now...in whatever state...we need something, anything, for Q4 2018" but, again, it feels incredibly short sighted. The only way I can rationalize it is that EA stock took a hammering of multi-millions when Battlefield V was announced to be delayed for a short time. "Battlefield V delay triggers EA share plummet, hedge fund exodus" www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-11-16-battlefield-v-delay-triggers-ea-share-plummet-hedge-fund-exodusTo announce Anthem's delay could have presented a fiscal risk that EA was simply not prepared to bear and I'm imagining a conversation like: 'I know you'd like another 6 weeks, but it's not happening...'With a GAAS you can adjust what's ready and what's for later and they shipped on that basis. As a gamer I can appreciate it's a poor call, as an accountant I might do the same to protect the parent company. Delaying the game is not what caused the stock to get hammered. They had to adjust their earnings projections down for that quarter, which is what caused the stock to get hammered. Then they missed earning anyway, and the stock got hammered again. They delayed ME:A and Anthem once and were fine because they didn't adjust their earnings projections. If they were counting on selling six million in the first month, they couldn't afford to adjust the earnings forecast again, or ultimately miss earnings again.
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Post by cypherj on Mar 22, 2019 18:09:49 GMT
But at the same time. For both games it boils down to a question of how long do you give people, Bioware had five or six years for both of these games. The released product should not have been what it was in either case. Anthem has been out a month and the product isn't to the point I think it should have been for release. So how long is too long to give the developer?
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 18:42:06 GMT
Maybe I'm being a debbie downer but considering that Anthem is supposed to appeal to a larger audience in a genre that is ripe for sales, Anthem should have been Bioware's highest launch, not 2nd and should ultimately be their best selling game. The genre audience plays at start, then runs to the next new thing until worthy new content is released. It's literary a bunny hopping crowd, jumping between several games all the time. Anthem tries to be one of these games. The marketing team did a great job, built up the hype and managed to bring in the initial sales. Nothing record breaking as far as we know (or Bioware would have shouted about it from the rooftops). I fully expected Anthem to be their all time top seller, but we might never know since EA is so "open" about this stuff. I am pretty sure they will not get to the 6 million target by the end of March, so I stick to my early predictions of 4 million, which should be a success too (except for EA I guess). So, yeah, even with a MVP launch Anthem got it's share of the looter shooter audience, it's a big market for a reason. Sad part is that this just encourages publishers to release unfinished products. But launch sales are over. It's not about selling copies anymore. It's about player retention and fighting to bring players back. Anthem is in a tough spot to do that. The reviews, the backlash, the game issues put Anthem in an underdog spot among the competition. Bioware needs some serious quality updates to clean up Anthem's image and every wrong step may send them way back. Next week's patch seems like the first serious effort to introduce something new and bring a change. It's not much, but it's something. The previous patches were mostly placebos and things that should have been there at launch. And yeah, the new content is basically rehashing old stuff with new rewards, but it worked for SWTOR, so Bio will get away with it for now. But the real content updates need to be quite good AND different than the current formula or the game will just keep losing players without luring them back. This is what I sad even before launch. Anthem could have sold 10 million units on the first day and it still doesnt matter, what matter is player growth/retention. If 20 million people are playing Anthem at launch but only 200k playing in October....that is not good. Vice Versa if the game has 200k players now and 2 million in October, that is good. Bad thing for Anthem is that Divison 2 is doing so well with great review scores and with a fanbase that is not only excited about the launch/vanilla version of D2...but is also very excited about the endgame/post launch road map. This presents a problem for Anthem cause it shows that people are not only excited to play D2 today but remains ready to continue to play it in July, October and December. Anthem just does not have the same level of hype/anticipation for its Year 1 lineup as Division 2. If D2 was a dud then you'll have 3 big duds in Destiny 2, Anthem and Divison 2 and it would be essentially an even match. But the success of Division 2 makes it an uphill battle for Anthem.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 18:52:05 GMT
But at the same time. For both games it boils down to a question of how long do you give people, Bioware had five or six years for both of these games. The released product should not have been what it was in either case. Anthem has been out a month and the product isn't to the point I think it should have been for release. So how long is too long to give the developer? For "ME:A", patch 1.05 released 04/04/2017 fixed the majority of the animations issues that got it memed to death through the EA Access trial. We are talking the "Addison Face" issues, "Cora's Gorilla Walk", Lexi raised eyes, fappy lips, "x" animation skip option in Galaxy Map, new Tempest arrival animations, and overall improvements to stability and bugginess. Some quality of life improvements, including some new content (Jaal's romance additions and Ryder Casual Wear) came later through patch 1.10 at the end of July but this is where a lot of people started to see a big difference between Early Access and post-release...that's two weeks from 03/21/2017. Does it mean high-80's metacritic like DAI? Not likely, but an 80-82 is entirely possible as reviewers could play the game with less obvious animation issues and bugginess and they could skip the long Galaxy Map animations. "Anthem" should have been a holiday 2019 release but, like you said in other posts, the right thing accounting-wise is to release as projected then adjust. Still, you are hoping that EA and BioWare are looking at both of these releases in terms of plans for DA4, which is why the rumor of a 2022 release may have some weight to it.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 18:52:54 GMT
How is the report that "Anthem was the best selling digital game on PSN for entire month of Feb in only 7 days" misinterpreted as a "positive"? Similar reports for XBox's store as well? Or the report it sold almost it's entire physical inventory - approximately 93% - in Japan? Every report is indicating it had a great financial launch despite average reviews... There is no "misinterpretation"...there were figures presented followed by a lot of "yeah, buts...". We'll all see what we want to see. And DAI is 2014 GoTY... Sounds awesome if you close your eyes to the fact what games were competing against it in a pretty dry year. How big was the 93% sold in Japan inventory? AAA mecha game, so the stock must have been huge there. Half a million copies? A million? More? The Japan number is from 78 000 copies, but I guess 93% sounds better. Just adding to the info. What was the Anthem's competition again in February? Oh, yeah, Jump Force, Super Mario, a hated sales fail Far cry add-on and the number 1 pirated game in 5 years (Metro) because players boycotted Epic Store. You really think beating those is huge? Honestly? Their combined marketing costs are probably less than Anthem's by a long shot. Do you think Anthem will be a top seller in March too against actual AAA releases? Honestly? Do you believe Anthem would have been top seller if any other March AAA game released in February? Also remember, Witcher 3 was also supposed to launch in 2014 before being delayed to Feb 2015 and then May 2015. Imagine TW3 and DAI going up head to head..... So yeah, competition matters. Games like Breath of the Wild, Last of Us, God of War and TW3 could have competed in GOTY for any of the last 10 years. Hell, a game like Last of Us 1 and TW3 would even compete for GOTY in 2019. I doubt the same can be said about DAI.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 18:55:46 GMT
And DAI is 2014 GoTY... Sounds awesome if you close your eyes to the fact what games were competing against it in a pretty dry year. How big was the 93% sold in Japan inventory? AAA mecha game, so the stock must have been huge there. Half a million copies? A million? More? The Japan number is from 78 000 copies, but I guess 93% sounds better. Just adding to the info. What was the Anthem's competition again in February? Oh, yeah, Jump Force, Super Mario, a hated sales fail Far cry add-on and the number 1 pirated game in 5 years (Metro) because players boycotted Epic Store. You really think beating those is huge? Honestly? Their combined marketing costs are probably less than Anthem's by a long shot. Do you think Anthem will be a top seller in March too against actual AAA releases? Honestly? Do you believe Anthem would have been top seller if any other March AAA game released in February? Also remember, Witcher 3 was also supposed to launch in 2014 before being delayed to Feb 2015 and then May 2015. Imagine TW3 and DAI going up head to head..... Yes, let's, again, take the irrelevant and compare them...(rolls eyes) It didn't happen...and the only reason it is brought up is find a way to bitch about the successful launch of another BioWare title.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 18:56:22 GMT
And DAI is 2014 GoTY... Sounds awesome if you close your eyes to the fact what games were competing against it in a pretty dry year. How big was the 93% sold in Japan inventory? AAA mecha game, so the stock must have been huge there. Half a million copies? A million? More? The Japan number is from 78 000 copies, but I guess 93% sounds better. Just adding to the info. What was the Anthem's competition again in February? Oh, yeah, Jump Force, Super Mario, a hated sales fail Far cry add-on and the number 1 pirated game in 5 years (Metro) because players boycotted Epic Store. You really think beating those is huge? Honestly? Their combined marketing costs are probably less than Anthem's by a long shot. Do you think Anthem will be a top seller in March too against actual AAA releases? Honestly? Do you believe Anthem would have been top seller if any other March AAA game released in February? Hmmm...do I think "Anthem" will be the #1 seller in March over hotly anticipated titles like "Division 2" and "Sekiro"? No, I don't. Will it be a failure if it isn't? And, Sweet Jesus, the "DAI was only GOTY because is came out in 2014" argument again? Talk about dry... Like I said, something positive is reported about "Anthem"...or any BioWare title, it seems, in perpetuity...and the "yeah, buts" come flying on this forum. I'll guess I'll just keep playing this lowly game until they shut off the servers in October of this year... Do you honestly think with a straight face that DAI would have won GOTY in 2013 or 2015?
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 19:02:36 GMT
Hmmm...do I think "Anthem" will be the #1 seller in March over hotly anticipated titles like "Division 2" and "Sekiro"? No, I don't. Will it be a failure if it isn't? And, Sweet Jesus, the "DAI was only GOTY because is came out in 2014" argument again? Talk about dry... Like I said, something positive is reported about "Anthem"...or any BioWare title, it seems, in perpetuity...and the "yeah, buts" come flying on this forum. I'll guess I'll just keep playing this lowly game until they shut off the servers in October of this year... Do you honestly think with a straight face that DAI would have won GOTY in 2013 or 2015? I don't "think with a straight face"... Also, I don't know what the vote would be since it didn't happen...I played DA:I more than a dozen times since Nov 2014, I've played "TW3" twice in 2015 and haven't touched it since. I'm sure I'm not only one that would have preferred the world of "Dragon Age" to the world of the "The Witcher"
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 22, 2019 19:09:25 GMT
Do you honestly think with a straight face that DAI would have won GOTY in 2013 or 2015? In 2015? No, because it would have been against The Witcher 3, which moved to 2015 to avoid competition with DAI.
In 2013? Quite possibly. Its main competition would have been The Last of Us. While that is a great game, it's also a console exclusive.
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Post by midnight tea on Mar 22, 2019 19:21:26 GMT
Do you honestly think with a straight face that DAI would have won GOTY in 2013 or 2015? In 2015? No, because it would have been against The Witcher 3, which moved to 2015 to avoid competition with DAI. It's kinda interesting that people forget that the reason Witcher 3 had so much spotlight for itself was because there was nothing else to compete with it at a time of release - no better indicator of it than people still making direct comparisons between it an a game released half a year earlier. What's more, the developers freely agree that pushing the release date was a good call.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2019 19:27:13 GMT
If TW3 had been released in 2014, it would most likely suffered the same fate as MEA and perhaps Anthem …
DAI would have been unscathed by an early (too soon) release of an unfinished, unpolished TW3 game.
And CDPR wouldn't be the RPG hero that they currently seem to be …
Perhaps that is a better lesson for BioWare and EA going forward.
Side note … I've tried several times to play TW … but I find the combat so clunky, I end up walking away. I also own TW2 and TW3 … in anticipation of playing the story all the way through. Currently, both TW and TW2 are installed on my computer, but not TW3. Lately, I've considered uninstalling the first two … space isn't an issue, I just doubt that I will ever find the game enjoyable enough to play for the story.
I found DA mechanics clunky, but not so onerous that I couldn't enjoy the story. Of the three, DA2 had the best mechanics, but that's not saying much. I hope that DA4 has better mechanics … Anthem has great mechanics, perhaps that will carry over to DA.
Back on topic … while the great sales at launch for Anthem are a noteworthy positive, as many have said (both those liking and those disliking Anthem) … it's the long-term player base and profitability that will matter for this type of game. Criticisms of Anthem, by some, were almost unhinged and disconnected from the game I experienced while playing. Support by some was also unrealistic … sometimes a response to the negative reactions, which I find unfortunate. But somewhere, not on those extremes, were folks who disliked the game for very valid reasons and those who liked the game, despite some noteworthy flaws that have yet to be corrected.
How this all plays out is TBD … but so far, I've had fun, early sales are a positive, improvements since launch have been real and significant … next week's patch and next month's game content will show me a lot more on whether the game is on track for the long-haul, as opposed to some very early game sales data.
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 22, 2019 19:27:28 GMT
Damn, the hater bucket is getting dry. 😏
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 22, 2019 19:39:31 GMT
Don't care how they calculated their figures, so long as the studio is happy with the sales at launch (even if the live service sales don't live up to their expectations going forward owing to the poor reviews). That means it should be full speed ahead with the Dread Wolf Rises.
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Post by majesticjazz on Mar 22, 2019 19:51:04 GMT
Do you honestly think with a straight face that DAI would have won GOTY in 2013 or 2015? I don't "think with a straight face"... Also, I don't know what the vote would be since it didn't happen...I played DA:I more than a dozen times since Nov 2014, I've played "TW3" twice in 2015 and haven't touched it since. I'm sure I'm not only one that would have preferred the world of "Dragon Age" to the world of the "The Witcher" 2016 had Uncharted 4 and Overwatch. DAI would NOT have won 2015 had Witcher 3 2013 had GTA5 Despite personal preference, any common sense would tell you that DAI would not have won GOTY in those years.
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Post by smilesja on Mar 22, 2019 19:55:46 GMT
How is the report that "Anthem was the best selling digital game on PSN for entire month of Feb in only 7 days" misinterpreted as a "positive"? Similar reports for XBox's store as well? Or the report it sold almost it's entire physical inventory - approximately 93% - in Japan? Every report is indicating it had a great financial launch despite average reviews... There is no "misinterpretation"...there were figures presented followed by a lot of "yeah, buts...". We'll all see what we want to see. And DAI is 2014 GoTY... Sounds awesome if you close your eyes to the fact what games were competing against it in a pretty dry year. How big was the 93% sold in Japan inventory? AAA mecha game, so the stock must have been huge there. Half a million copies? A million? More? The Japan number is from 78 000 copies, but I guess 93% sounds better. Just adding to the info. What was the Anthem's competition again in February? Oh, yeah, Jump Force, Super Mario, a hated sales fail Far cry add-on and the number 1 pirated game in 5 years (Metro) because players boycotted Epic Store. You really think beating those is huge? Honestly? Their combined marketing costs are probably less than Anthem's by a long shot. Do you think Anthem will be a top seller in March too against actual AAA releases? Honestly? Do you believe Anthem would have been top seller if any other March AAA game released in February? So now that the Anthem sold well, the new narrative is that It lacked competition? There have been Youtube videos speculating that Anthem probably underperformed. But now It turns out it sold well and people are falling back to the DAI had no competition style argument. Sssseeeesh.......
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Post by saandrig on Mar 22, 2019 19:58:48 GMT
And DAI is 2014 GoTY... Sounds awesome if you close your eyes to the fact what games were competing against it in a pretty dry year. How big was the 93% sold in Japan inventory? AAA mecha game, so the stock must have been huge there. Half a million copies? A million? More? The Japan number is from 78 000 copies, but I guess 93% sounds better. Just adding to the info. What was the Anthem's competition again in February? Oh, yeah, Jump Force, Super Mario, a hated sales fail Far cry add-on and the number 1 pirated game in 5 years (Metro) because players boycotted Epic Store. You really think beating those is huge? Honestly? Their combined marketing costs are probably less than Anthem's by a long shot. Do you think Anthem will be a top seller in March too against actual AAA releases? Honestly? Do you believe Anthem would have been top seller if any other March AAA game released in February? So now that the Anthem sold well, the new narrative is that It lacked competition? There have been Youtube videos speculating that Anthem probably underperformed. But now It turns out it sold well and people are falling back to the DAI had no competition style argument. Sssseeeesh....... Point me where I ever said Anthem has competition in February or will sell poorly at launch? Check my comments even before the game launched. Even then I was pointing out there is no competition until TD 2 launches and the marketing is strong enough to bring good sales at start. Check up and then come back to me with your claims about new narrative.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 20:00:28 GMT
I don't "think with a straight face"... Also, I don't know what the vote would be since it didn't happen...I played DA:I more than a dozen times since Nov 2014, I've played "TW3" twice in 2015 and haven't touched it since. I'm sure I'm not only one that would have preferred the world of "Dragon Age" to the world of the "The Witcher" 2016 had Uncharted 4 and Overwatch. DAI would NOT have won 2015 had Witcher 3 2013 had GTA5 Despite personal preference, any common sense would tell you that DAI would not have won GOTY in those years. Sure, it can win the "Votes That Never Happened" award...
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Post by smilesja on Mar 22, 2019 20:07:14 GMT
So now that the Anthem sold well, the new narrative is that It lacked competition? There have been Youtube videos speculating that Anthem probably underperformed. But now It turns out it sold well and people are falling back to the DAI had no competition style argument. Sssseeeesh....... Point me where I ever said Anthem has competition in February or will sell poorly at launch? Check my comments even before the game launched. Even then I was pointing out there is no competition until TD 2 launches and the marketing is strong enough to bring good sales at start. Check up and then come back to me with your claims about new narrative. Maybe not you, but there's been talk among Youtubers and this site a few weeks ago that perhaps Anthem is underperforming. So now It turns it not so bad, there are some people downplaying this. Will Anthem make the mark on March? Who knows, but like correctamundo said: Is that sign of failure?
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 22, 2019 20:08:47 GMT
So now that the Anthem sold well, the new narrative is that It lacked competition? There have been Youtube videos speculating that Anthem probably underperformed. But now It turns out it sold well and people are falling back to the DAI had no competition style argument. Sssseeeesh....... Point me where I ever said Anthem has competition in February or will sell poorly at launch? Check my comments even before the game launched. Even then I was pointing out there is no competition until TD 2 launches and the marketing is strong enough to bring good sales at start. Check up and then come back to me with your claims about new narrative. Well the narrative from the "skeptics" used to be that Anthem was dead on arrival because of Apex legends. Now it seems that Apex doesn't exist any more. 😎 Go figure.
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saandrig
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by saandrig on Mar 22, 2019 20:11:40 GMT
Point me where I ever said Anthem has competition in February or will sell poorly at launch? Check my comments even before the game launched. Even then I was pointing out there is no competition until TD 2 launches and the marketing is strong enough to bring good sales at start. Check up and then come back to me with your claims about new narrative. Maybe not you, but there's been talk among Youtubers and this site a few weeks ago that perhaps Anthem is underperforming. So now It turns it not so bad, there are some people downplaying this. Will Anthem make the mark on March? Who knows, but like correctamundo said: Is that sign of failure? So I can say that your new narrative is "I quoted you for saying bullshit, but now that you called me on it I totally didn't mean you"
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correctamundo
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Don't knock the little winds. They're important - for morale.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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They never liked me! No one likes me!
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Post by correctamundo on Mar 22, 2019 20:12:51 GMT
2016 had Uncharted 4 and Overwatch. DAI would NOT have won 2015 had Witcher 3 2013 had GTA5 Despite personal preference, any common sense would tell you that DAI would not have won GOTY in those years. Sure, it can win the "Votes That Never Happened" award... 😀 Jazz really likes his bizarre straw men but this one is a real priiiize. 😎
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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 22, 2019 20:13:05 GMT
Err, what? I've watched plenty of critical YouTube videos and I haven't seen any of them say the initial sales will tank. That frankly doesn't have much to do with quality at launch, as has been proven time and again. From my own perspective, the sales are lower than I thought they'd be.
What I've seen plenty of youtubers say is that the playerbase is going to fall off a cliff quickly, which is very bad news for a GAAS that's aiming to generate a solid revenue tail.
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Post by KaiserShep on Mar 22, 2019 20:14:10 GMT
I'll never understand why people thought Apex Legends was so interchangeable just because it's a free-to-play multiplayer. Regardless of its quality, at current it's PvP only. Most of that shit I ever tolerate is what I participate in on Destiny.
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 22, 2019 20:25:15 GMT
Sure, it can win the "Votes That Never Happened" award... 😀 Jazz really likes his bizarre straw men but this one is a real priiiize. 😎 Yeah, it's an odd obsession... And, just to put the whole "DAI" vs "TW3" thing to bed, DAI was released in Nov 2014 because it was ready to be released at that time and TW3 was not. Even when it was released, TW3 was still buggy as fuck in some instances but that was glossed over a lot - loading screen issues, missing NPCs, quests that didn't initiate or conclude, invincible enemies are the ones I encountered. It was a good game but not a perfect launch but some peeps kneeled down and absolutely wide-mouthed the CDProjektRed Rocket to the point of absurdity. There are certainly things I hope BioWare takes notice of in the TW3 with regards to DA4's development but it really shouldn't try to emulate it over all.
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