dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on Mar 24, 2019 20:39:02 GMT
Yeah, but some people don't pick it, because the Starchild claims all synthetics will be destroyed, including Shepard, because he is partly synthetic.
These people see it as destroy as genocide, and thus a bad choice.
But shepard doesn't die. So if he doesn't then why do the geth and edi? The Catalyst was using fear tactics regarding Shepard's own fate. The geth and EDI are entirely synthetic, which was the target. Shepard is not synthetic. It's like saying Luke Skywalker would die because he has a mechanical hand. It wouldn't even impact his hand because Luke isn't a synthetic. Synthetic parts ≠ synthetic being. It doesn't actually come out and say Shepard will be killed. It says: "The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic..." It's a bit of misdirection, maybe a hope that Shepard will choose self-preservation (which, as below, shows the Catalyst doesn't truly understand the thinking of organics).
Curious thing about the Crucible. Shepard says "Why didn't you stop it (the plans)?" Starkid: "We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly, organics are more resourceful than we realized."
This points directly to the idea that the Catalyst is flawed in its understanding of organic thinking. IOW, its preconception that organics must go to war with synthetics is a false premise. We don't think like it thinks we think.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 24, 2019 20:51:00 GMT
If the edibot is taken on the beam run with ems below 2000, it will be destroyed by Harbinger, but it's name will not be on the memorial wall , if control is chosen, whereas if destroy is chosen, it's name will be on the memorial wall. Until I see joker in tears (if you hooked them up) I won't believe it So what fantasy are you choosing to believe instead? Wishful thinking isn't an argument.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 7, 2019 19:08:41 GMT
But shepard doesn't die. So if he doesn't then why do the geth and edi? The Catalyst was using fear tactics regarding Shepard's own fate. The geth and EDI are entirely synthetic, which was the target. Shepard is not synthetic. It's like saying Luke Skywalker would die because he has a mechanical hand. It wouldn't even impact his hand because Luke isn't a synthetic. Synthetic parts ≠ synthetic being. It doesn't actually come out and say Shepard will be killed. It says: "The Crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic..." It's a bit of misdirection, maybe a hope that Shepard will choose self-preservation (which, as below, shows the Catalyst doesn't truly understand the thinking of organics).
Curious thing about the Crucible. Shepard says "Why didn't you stop it (the plans)?" Starkid: "We believed the concept had been eradicated. Clearly, organics are more resourceful than we realized."
This points directly to the idea that the Catalyst is flawed in its understanding of organic thinking. IOW, its preconception that organics must go to war with synthetics is a false premise. We don't think like it thinks we think. If it was all about self preservation then why bring shepard to it in the first place...or why not just have him thrown into the synthesis beam since that seems to be it's preference. Maybe the geth and edi died but if starkid really wanted shep to not choose destroy and was saying shep would die for that reason then why would it not say anyone with cybernatics would die.
The ending is so flawed these questions are endless. One of the things that bugged me about the whole starkid's explanation to why he brought shepard there was stupid. Yeah maybe every cycle the crucible was built a little more each time but they need the citadel to finish it and until the protheans stopped the reapers from using the citadel as a relay they got control of the citadel right off the back. And we saw that the reapers could easily fix what the protheans did. If they destroy the conduit then they would still get the citadel right off the back and be able to shut off the relays like they always did. So the idea that the starkid had to change how they did things was stupid.
Bah it all makes no sense
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Post by alanc9 on Apr 7, 2019 19:58:05 GMT
The idea that the Catalyst can outright lie about stuff always falls apart for exactly the reasons you mention -- if the Catalyst can lie about this, why can't it tell better, more important lies? Not surprising, since most of the time the hypothesis that the Catalyst is lying isn't being put forward as a good faith interpretation in the first place, but as a way to rationalize something the poster wants to believe rather than believing what the final sequence actually shows.
When a hypothesis can't work on its own terms, the answer is to stop using it. The final conversation can't work if the Catalyst really can say flatly untrue things. Therefore, he can't say flatly untrue things.
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 7, 2019 21:06:05 GMT
The idea that the Catalyst can outright lie about stuff always falls apart for exactly the reasons you mention -- if the Catalyst can lie about this, why can't it tell better, more important lies? Not surprising, since most of the time the hypothesis that the Catalyst is lying isn't being put forward as a good faith interpretation in the first place, but as a way to rationalize something the poster wants to believe rather than believing what the final sequence actually shows. When a hypothesis can't work on its own terms, the answer is to stop using it. The final conversation can't work if the Catalyst really can say flatly untrue things. Therefore, he can't say flatly untrue things. But the idea that the catalyst can't lie and decideds to do what he did makes no sense. Like I said if the organics don't get the citadel the crucible is useless so the reapers don't need to worry about the organics beating them or having to change the idea. So either the starkid had more then just one computer glitch...or it just doesn't make any sense
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 7, 2019 21:06:35 GMT
Until I see joker in tears (if you hooked them up) I won't believe it So what fantasy are you choosing to believe instead? Wishful thinking isn't an argument. You know I was joking about him crying right?
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dmc1001
N7
Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: ferroboy
Prime Posts: 77
Posts: 9,940 Likes: 17,667
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Post by dmc1001 on Apr 8, 2019 18:20:13 GMT
The idea that the Catalyst can outright lie about stuff always falls apart for exactly the reasons you mention -- if the Catalyst can lie about this, why can't it tell better, more important lies? Not surprising, since most of the time the hypothesis that the Catalyst is lying isn't being put forward as a good faith interpretation in the first place, but as a way to rationalize something the poster wants to believe rather than believing what the final sequence actually shows. When a hypothesis can't work on its own terms, the answer is to stop using it. The final conversation can't work if the Catalyst really can say flatly untrue things. Therefore, he can't say flatly untrue things. But the idea that the catalyst can't lie and decideds to do what he did makes no sense. Like I said if the organics don't get the citadel the crucible is useless so the reapers don't need to worry about the organics beating them or having to change the idea. So either the starkid had more then just one computer glitch...or it just doesn't make any sense My assumption is that the Catalyst had flawed programming right from the start. I imagine it won't get better over time. Give it a billion years and the faults become immense.
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Post by themikefest on Apr 8, 2019 19:29:13 GMT
One of the things that bugged me about the whole starkid's explanation to why he brought shepard there was stupid. What explanation? Unless you mean it says it needs Shepard to activate the crucible. The other thing is if ems is below 2700, it will say Why are you here instead of wake up. I don't believe it was built or at least partially built in every cycle. The thing says it's known about the concept of the crucible for several cycles. Not very long. I also believe it doesn't know who/what made the plans for the crucible. If the crucible has been partially built in every cycle, I would say the catalyst would have known about it long ago instead of only several cycles. Going by what happened in the prothean cycle, I would guess those cycles suffered the same thing that happened to the protheans. The project was sabotaged by a group wanting to control the reapers instead of destroying them
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Post by garrusfan1 on Apr 8, 2019 20:05:37 GMT
One of the things that bugged me about the whole starkid's explanation to why he brought shepard there was stupid. What explanation? Unless you mean it says it needs Shepard to activate the crucible. The other thing is if ems is below 2700, it will say Why are you here instead of wake up. I don't believe it was built or at least partially built in every cycle. The thing says it's known about the concept of the crucible for several cycles. Not very long. I also believe it doesn't know who/what made the plans for the crucible. If the crucible has been partially built in every cycle, I would say the catalyst would have known about it long ago instead of only several cycles. Going by what happened in the prothean cycle, I would guess those cycles suffered the same thing that happened to the protheans. The project was sabotaged by a group wanting to control the reapers instead of destroying them By explanation I meant why it brought shep there and told him to make a choice. It was fine with the way things were but somehow this one cycle getting lucky and having the protheans stop the reapers from hitting the citadel relay trap means we are superior to everyone else and it's cycle needs to be changed. The next cycle wouldn't have the citadel because the reapers would have taken it already and started the harvest and thus the organics of the next cycle would not be able to use the crucible. So it's whole reasoning is flawed and stupid for why it suddenly has to change everything because the organics have advanced enough to get where they got to with the crucible
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 10, 2019 8:04:00 GMT
If the edibot is taken on the beam run with ems below 2000, it will be destroyed by Harbinger, but it's name will not be on the memorial wall , if control is chosen, whereas if destroy is chosen, it's name will be on the memorial wall. Makes sense. Most of EDI is the ship anyway, so she'd still be "alive" with her mobile platform vaporized... Unless you go for the "Break the machines!" button.
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