linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:30:02 GMT
I got to side with Jason Schreier on this one. That was a weak response. I fully suspect BioWare is in the process of humbling itself a bit, as I doubt Hudson has that much of an Ego as it seems the other prodcuers and ditectors did, but this was a chance to really take it in stride, and instead it was a toothless reply in everything but pointing out that they need to do better. I'm dissapointed honestly Remember that Casey was gone through a big chunk of development, so he doesn't have as much ego wrapped up in the game as the others. It was also one of his projects before he left though, so he has a connection. My point is moreso Hudson as the head will not let it "get to his head" if that makes sense. The hope then is production team can be given clearer direction too under his management.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 2, 2019 17:31:56 GMT
It doesnt sound dismissive at all if anything they’re just going to press forward and despite whatever problems they had they’ll stand by them. I feel that it’s just exaggeration by Jason to say that they’re in denial. Read like it to me, and what makes it worse is that even if its not true, it still is a weak response. At the end of the day the hope I have is Hudson can provide team leadership here or the folks screaming about the death of BioWare will be pissing on the grave when they are proven right. They already started to do that months ago you don’t need to worry about that. Point is, whether found this response weak, strong (I personally felt it was just okay) people will still just sharpen their pitchforks out for their blood. A crowd loves a spectacle whether merry or bloody something I feel Jason is trying to drum up.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 17:32:19 GMT
That fucking idiot realize that he gave these people to a fucking lynch mob for the rest of their fucking career?
Of course he does. He just doesn’t care. He makes his living doing this to people. Yes, how dare he call out stuidos for working developers like slaves because their bosses can't make up their damned minds about their project until the last minute? How dare he call out awful, reprehensible business practices that lead many employees to take extended leave because they can't take the work enviroment. How dare he...
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Post by giubba on Apr 2, 2019 17:39:03 GMT
Of course he does. He just doesn’t care. He makes his living doing this to people. Yes, how dare he call out stuidos for working developers like slaves because their bosses can't make up their damned minds about their project until the last minute? How dare he call out awful, reprehensible business practices that lead many employees to take extended leave because they can't take the work enviroment. How dare he... Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:40:38 GMT
Yes, how dare he call out stuidos for working developers like slaves because their bosses can't make up their damned minds about their project until the last minute? How dare he call out awful, reprehensible business practices that lead many employees to take extended leave because they can't take the work enviroment. How dare he... Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
No one wants that though. But pretending that Schreier is wrong though for what he said is fucking stupid.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 17:42:19 GMT
Yes, how dare he call out stuidos for working developers like slaves because their bosses can't make up their damned minds about their project until the last minute? How dare he call out awful, reprehensible business practices that lead many employees to take extended leave because they can't take the work enviroment. How dare he... Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
Keep defending bullshit like this and devs WILL die, you fool. What Bioware did to these developers is fucking unacceptable. Anyone who has the gall to get upset by someone calling out disgusting crap like this is not interested in peoples well being, no matter what they say.
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Post by shinobiwan on Apr 2, 2019 17:48:24 GMT
Yes, how dare he call out stuidos for working developers like slaves because their bosses can't make up their damned minds about their project until the last minute? How dare he call out awful, reprehensible business practices that lead many employees to take extended leave because they can't take the work enviroment. How dare he... Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
It's much more likely that a dev will have a stroke or heart attack from the stress Than be murdered by a fan. Jason's article helps ameliorate this by exposing bad practices.
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Post by smilesja on Apr 2, 2019 17:51:02 GMT
Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
No one wants that though. But pretending that Schreier is wrong though for what he said is fucking stupid. I don’t think Jason is wrong, I just think he’s coming across as overly dramatic which I suspect he’s trying to manufacture rage.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 2, 2019 17:51:18 GMT
This refers to the Kotaku article, right? Yeah. Jason is crying about this blog post right now. Why would you phrase it this way? His response is calm and measured, and frankly I see the Bioware post as the one that's out of order considering their concern about "tearing down specific members" is something completely absent from the initial article.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,179 Likes: 4,063
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 2, 2019 17:52:08 GMT
No one wants that though. But pretending that Schreier is wrong though for what he said is fucking stupid. I don’t think Jason is wrong, I just think he’s coming across as overly dramatic which I suspect he’s trying to manufacture rage. Ok. Jason Schreier is not those idiots from Youtube. He is not Yong or Joe or Downward Thrust. We should not be conflating the two.
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Post by giubba on Apr 2, 2019 17:52:24 GMT
Will you be satisfied when finally someone will kill their first dev? Will you be satisfied when someone will finally kill himself because years ago he made mistakes and wasn't able to find a job anymore and the internet keep haunting him?
No one wants that though. But pretending that Schreier is wrong though for what he said is fucking stupid. Say it to the guy who hanged himself because 3 years ago he did a shitty job in one of the project the company i work for did and wasn't able to found another job thanks to the word of mouth that followed.
How you say something is more important on what you say and that bastard know perfectly this.
I don't have the problems with the rest of the article,actually is pretty good as usual, but putting the names was simply vile.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Apr 2, 2019 17:52:58 GMT
No one wants that though. But pretending that Schreier is wrong though for what he said is fucking stupid. I don’t think Jason is wrong, I just think he’s coming across as overly dramatic which I suspect he’s trying to manufacture rage. Gotta generate those clicks.
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 17:56:41 GMT
In fact, anyone who allows and/or perpetuates this type of awful work enviroment does not deserve a job in this field anymore, imo. IDC if they never work again. Anyone who does this has no business being a manager of people.
And anyone who defends the above people, can piss up a rope.
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Post by Gileadan on Apr 2, 2019 17:57:14 GMT
As far as this blog post is concerned, it's an incredibly half-assed attempt at damage control that reads like it was cobbled together from existing text blocks. The parts about workplace culture and team health and wealthfare seem almost cynical after reading Mr. Schreier's article. Shame on whoever posted that.
Yet some people would rather scream and rage at the messenger. It boggles the mind.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 2, 2019 18:08:16 GMT
Yeah the blog post makes the whole thing even worse, like a terrible shriveled cherry on top of the shitty Anthem sundae.
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Post by Wulfram on Apr 2, 2019 18:12:20 GMT
Yeah. Jason is crying about this blog post right now. Why would you phrase it this way? His response is calm and measured, and frankly I see the Bioware post as the one that's out of order considering their concern about "tearing down specific members" is something completely absent from the initial article. Eh, it's definitely got its sights on some specific people.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 18:13:31 GMT
I think Bioware needs to be honest with themselves, and stop being publicly dismissive. I agree. This looks like a 'holding statement' got out the door by someone or other 'unsigned'. Casey probably needs to say something a little more nuanced in due course. The real 'response' from BioWare needs to be: - Anthem getting great and working content and story updates.
- Shipping DA4 in a working state and it being a great game.
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Post by warden on Apr 2, 2019 18:14:01 GMT
Why would you phrase it this way? His response is calm and measured, and frankly I see the Bioware post as the one that's out of order considering their concern about "tearing down specific members" is something completely absent from the initial article. Eh, it's definitely got its sights on some specific people. yeah, it's meant to trigger people or some specific people as you just said. that user behaves that way usually.
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Post by Fogg on Apr 2, 2019 18:15:03 GMT
BioWare goes full Trump on a very good investigative journalist. "YOU FAKE NEWS! YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IT'S NOT NICE! WE DO IT FOR NORMAL FOLKS, NOT YOU ELITIST NEW YORK VEGAN BURGER LOVING HIPSTER!!1! WE MAKE THE BEST GAMES!"
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Post by Sah291 on Apr 2, 2019 18:17:49 GMT
I don't doubt Schreier is telling the truth, I had a feeling this might have been the case that Andromeda's issues where not limited to just Andromeda. But I have to agree that throwing gasoline onto the fire with a divisive response that might be interpreted by some as blame or throwing specific employees under the bus isn't what is needed from leadership at this point--especially if company culture and morale is as poor as it is. Actions speak louder than words, and that's really what is needed, implementing the changes necessary to turn things around and keep their current projects on track.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 18:18:35 GMT
I think Bioware needs to be honest with themselves, and stop being publicly dismissive. I agree. This looks like a 'holding statement' got out the door by someone or other 'unsigned'. Casey probably needs to say something a little more nuanced in due course. The real 'response' from BioWare needs to be: - Anthem getting great and working content and story updates.
- Shipping DA4 in a working state and it being a great game.
And without that live service/online only thing. Thank you very much! 😒
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Post by therevanchist25 on Apr 2, 2019 18:20:17 GMT
I don't doubt Schreier is telling the truth, I had a feeling this might have been the case that Andromeda's issues where not limited to just Andromeda. But I have to agree that throwing gasoline onto the fire with a divisive response that might be interpreted by some as blame or throwing specific employees under the bus isn't what is needed from leadership at this point--especially if company culture and morale is as poor as it is. Actions speak louder than words, and that's really what is needed, implementing the changes necessary to turn things around and keep their current projects on track. Indeed, Bioware themselves throwing people under the bus publicly would not change anything in a positive way...but leaving the people responsible for this toxic work enviroment in place is a great way to continue to repeat the same mistakes, imo.
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Post by SofaJockey on Apr 2, 2019 18:24:20 GMT
And without that live service/online only thing. Thank you very much! 😒 I disagree, I find the GAAS a key asset for Anthem, as it will be for DA4, but that's a different discussion.
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Post by samhain444 on Apr 2, 2019 18:26:25 GMT
Yeah. Jason is crying about this blog post right now. Why would you phrase it this way? His response is calm and measured, and frankly I see the Bioware post as the one that's out of order considering their concern about "tearing down specific members" is something completely absent from the initial article. Jason mentioned Jon Warner specifically in the article and vaguely painted him as someone in over his head...which he may well be. Regardless, it's no shock they "neither confirming nor denying"
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 18:27:05 GMT
And without that live service/online only thing. Thank you very much! 😒 I disagree, I find the GAAS a key asset for Anthem, as it will be for DA4, but that's a different discussion. Then if GAAS becomes a part of DA4 then it's a 'no buy' for me.
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